Dentist Making $$

[FreshOffTheBoat]

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I'm not one to really worry about how much dentist make....i like the field b/c its interesting...but often people talk a lot about how much $$ they make, especially how much $$ soon after they graduate....is this because they are eager to pay loans back...or because they think they will living the good life with all that $$ they are making? For some reason, I always imagine that if I became a dentist... I would just be living in a decent apartment (or maybe a cute small house) and with a regular car etc living the regular life.....I just don't see how one can afford a big or expenisve house and expensive car or vacations and all that jazz in the begginning [first 5-10 yrs] of their career....i mean aren't there a lot of loan payments to be made???......or do people just stress the $$ b/c they want to know they can pay it as soon as possible so that 10 yrs into their careers they can afford the more "expensive" things in life......? thanks...i would appreciate the opinions/info!

 

[blankguy]

People who look into dentistry purely for money are looking at it the wrong way. You've got to like what the job entails. Money will follow that. There is a price to pay for becoming a dentist. Four long years of very rigorous training is required at minimum, you can't go through that purely by greed.

 

[sts9]

Im going into dentistry so I can have wholesale prices on platinum teeth. I mean why else do it than to get a big house, nice car, and tons of BLING???

 

[aphistis]

I became a dentist because I couldn't break into investment banking, which everyone on the dental forums knows is the only career in America that pays a living wage. 🙁

 

[scandalouslj]

Yes a lot of my friends bought brand new cars right when they got out of dental school. The problem is yes you are making a lot of money right off the bat, but really no more than any other medical professional. If you are looking at dental starting salaries vs a lot of medical starting salaries ours' (dental) pales in comparison (unless you are comparing a general dentist to a family prac.in which they are very similar) I mean if you look at the average dental salary in the US it is $200,000 which really isnt that much compared to the average salary of a physician, or Pharmacists that are making $100,000 starting or CRNA's, etc.(and I know that the average salary survey isnt that accurate, but then that would hold true for every other profession also). The difference is that most of the med residents are older since they have to go through the 3 year residency and thus have kids etc. Many of us dental grads dont have kids and thus have different priorities such as the nice car and big house until a few years later. Many dentists also have a different mindset in life and enjoy working, but also reaping the benefits of that work through buying things, playing golf, etc. I have noticed many of my medical collegues have to work and arent very good at enjoying life. What does this translate into? Everyone thingking dentists are lazy because they make so much and can afford to take fridays off, drive mercedes, etc. I know plenty of ENT's making over 2 million dollars a year who are in private practice, so can choose their hours and all of them work 50-60 hour work weeks. The funny thing is that it I imagine it has gotten quite a few new grads in trouble, because the first thing they told us and kept repeating in our dental management class was to not buy a new car, etc!

 

[loved]

I'm going into dentistry b/c I like it. If I am going to be paying off loans for the rest of my life, I might as well be doing something I enjoy, right? 🙂😀😎👍

Do what you love, and you'll never have to work a day in your life.

 

[BuckeyMcGee]

You can strive to live in your modest and nice apartment, but others, such as myself, will strive to reap the rewards we feel we deserve. If you're set on making a ton of money, dentistry can allow you to do that. A lot of dentists aren't just involved in dentistry, but also real estate, and working in the community. Their are endless opportunities which can be capitlized upon through the contacts you will make in dentistry. So go ahead and drive your Ford Focus if that makes you happy, I am going to be selling grills, doing innovative things, and hopefully making good money.

 

[FreshOffTheBoat]

You can strive to live in your modest and nice apartment, but others, such as myself, will strive to reap the rewards we feel we deserve. If you're set on making a ton of money, dentistry can allow you to do that. A lot of dentists aren't just involved in dentistry, but also real estate, and working in the community. Their are endless opportunities which can be capitlized upon through the contacts you will make in dentistry. So go ahead and drive your Ford Focus if that makes you happy, I am going to be selling grills, doing innovative things, and hopefully making good money.

first off, i want to thank all for responding. appreciate it. 🙂🙂


In particular to Buckey McGee..i think you misunderstand me. I am not saying I don't want to make lots of money, or by nice things for my family blah blah etc etc...

....I am trying to understand why many people worry so much about how much they will make right after dental school. I think its pretty obvious that dentist make a lot of $$. I wanted to know is their many concern for how much $$$ they make because they are eager to pay back loans as soon as possible so they can enjoy and reap the benefits of their hard work...OR is it because many people see this fantasy type thing that when you become dentist you will make lots of $$$ and can afford the more expensive things in life? ...I just dont get how its possible to spend so much $$ in the beggining [5-10 yrs] of dental career...arent there BIG LOANS to pay off first...I just do not get how one can afford to buy expensive cars and big house or expensive meals etc etc ...if there are so many bills to pay.


again..i am talking about the begginning one's dental career [when loans still need to be paid]...not after many years of being dentist.

 

[BuckeyMcGee]

I was aware that taking out a ton of loans for my school (Nova) would inhibit the buying of a practice or starting one up straight out of school, I am on the Navy scholarship and have no loans and no expenses in dental school. It is pretty nice but I do have the 4 year obligation to serve as a dentist with the Navy, then afterward, I plan to immediately start or buy my own practice if I don't specialize. I'm not sure how some people come out with 300,000 dollars in debt and expect to start a practice, it will be pretty hard getting another loan for that...

 

[charlestweed]

...I just dont get how its possible to spend so much $$ in the beggining [5-10 yrs] of dental career...arent there BIG LOANS to pay off first...I just do not get how one can afford to buy expensive cars and big house or expensive meals etc etc ...if there are so many bills to pay.


again..i am talking about the begginning one's dental career [when loans still need to be paid]...not after many years of being dentist.

You are absolutely right! You won't be able to spend a lot during the first 5-10 years. I got depressed every time I saw the bills from SallieMae, ACS, AES, and other lenders in the mail. I think the average loan repayment amount for dentists is about $ 2000-3000/month (for me, $6000/month)....that's like a mortgage payment for a $400k home.

A $120k/year income is not a lot......a couple of my friends have to consolidate their student loans (not all loans can be consolidated) and spread their loan payment to 30 years.

 

[Harvey]

first off, i want to thank all for responding. appreciate it. 🙂🙂


I just dont get how its possible to spend so much $$ in the beggining [5-10 yrs] of dental career...arent there BIG LOANS to pay off first...I just do not get how one can afford to buy expensive cars and big house or expensive meals etc etc ...if there are so many bills to pay.


again..i am talking about the begginning one's dental career [when loans still need to be paid]...not after many years of being dentist.

First, some people have daddy and mommy paying for it, not that this is bad, but it happens. Other people are naive. I'm personally looking at over $3,000 monthly loan payments when I graduate, so that is over $36,000 a year minimum in loan money I'm paying back for 10 years. And as far as starting salaries go $100,000 - 125,000 are more reasonable figures than what someone quoted earlier, then you have to figure in taxes. So yes you are correct in saying that dentist will not have as much money as some people think they will once they graduate. You will be comfortable, but not wiping your butt with 100 dollar bills.

 

[WHO DAT]

Those of you who posted your loan payments....Do you mind me asking the amount you're borrowing?

Thanks in advance

 

[NileBDS]

I was aware that taking out a ton of loans for my school (Nova) would inhibit the buying of a practice or starting one up straight out of school, I am on the Navy scholarship and have no loans and no expenses in dental school. It is pretty nice but I do have the 4 year obligation to serve as a dentist with the Navy, then afterward, I plan to immediately start or buy my own practice if I don't specialize. I'm not sure how some people come out with 300,000 dollars in debt and expect to start a practice, it will be pretty hard getting another loan for that...

You know, that was a big misconception I had not long ago too. Believe it or not, 'dental lenders' don't care squat about your student loans. When it comes to student loans, $50k is like $500k to them. It's all good debt (not like Lexus debt). What they really care about is your credit score, history and "healthy" balance of debt. One of the big dental lenders was at our school recently, and actually advocated paying off credit cards, using student loans, to get your credit score back up and going before graduation (700+). He also said that no matter what way you cut it, lending money to a new grad is risky business. If you've been out a year or two, and have previous production reports to prove that you can bring in the money and production $$$ to sustain your practice, the loan is yours (provided again that you have good-great credit).

 

[DrJeff]

I know that I've posted something to this extent before, but if you expect to graduate from d-school and just walk into an "easy" job that will suddenyl pay you enough $$ to be able to buy a Ferrari and hop aboard a private jet to fly off to exotic locations at a moments notice, well then 99.99% of the time, this won't be happening.

If you put the time and hours into a job/practice, you'll in all likelihood have enough $$ for your loan payments, a mortgage on a "reasonable" property (i.e. for most of us the "starter house" out of d-school won't be that 10,000 sq. ft. 8 bedroom mansion in the gated community), and a decent set of wheels to drive.

With time and hard work, you'll have those loans paid off very often ahead of time, you'll in time likely "upgrade" to a larger house as the family requires, and you won't be living paycheck to paycheck like many in this country do. Additionally, taking the family to Disneyworld for a week won't be a financial burden to most dentists.

If you start spenidng without some fiscal restraint right out of school, you could very well find a way to end up declaring bankruptcy while making a 6 figure salary.😱

My theory is when you get out of school, within reason after a few months on the job, splurge A LITTLE on an item. Go ahead get, that 50" plasma TV or take a nice week long vacation, you do deserve a little something for the years of hard work you put in becoming a dentist. Don't however immediately run out to the BMW dealership and sign yourself upto a big monthly payment - that will be financial overkill for just about every new grad. Develop a solid finacial plan working with an accountant and/or financial planner early on, and you'll be a happy, financially secure, DEBT FREE dentist a heck of alot sooner than you may think.👍

 

[Cold Front]

As usual, great post DrJeff. 👍

 

[charlestweed]

Not even close. If I lived back in the valley where I grew up on the Idaho Washington border, I could purchase a $850,000 house and still only have a $4450 mortgage plus property taxes and insurance. I live in Texas where property taxes and insurance is extremely high. Even with the taxes and insurance put into escrow along with the house payment, my house payment is $1690 on a $190,000 house. My house is very nice, is in a gated community and is a couple hundred feet from a nice sized lake where there are houses near a million dollars. We are not struggling to pay my wife's student loans, the house loan, two car payments, tuition and have money left to fully invest in Roth IRAs, 401(k) and other investments on my wife's pharmacist pay and what I get from the Navy while in d-school. You just have to balance the spending out - BUDGET IT! To say you cannot have nice things out of d-school and not get yourself in over your head is false. If you know your limits and have a plan, you can enjoy life.

That’s what I said. So for a 400k home, the monthly mortgage payment would be between 2000-3000/month (depending on the down payment amount). When I typed the post above, I totally forgot that homes in California are a lot more expensive than homes in other states. A lot of my general dentist friends cannot afford to buy homes in Orange and LA counties b/c most of them are in the 500-700k price range. My sister (a general dentist) and her husband (an internal medicine doctor) had to live with our parents for 3 years before they could afford to buy a home. Because of such high standard of living in California, my college buddy decided to sell his practice, took the Western board exam, and moved to Texas. A couple of other friends moved to Nevada and Arizona.

Those of you who posted your loan payments....Do you mind me asking the amount you're borrowing?

Thanks in advance

My loans: 0 (undergrad) + $92k (UCLA DDS) + 50k (ortho residency) = 142k
My wife’s loans: $9k (undergrad) + 190k (USC DDS) + $120k (perio residency) = 319k

Grand total = 461,000 and minimum monthly loan payment was approx 6,000/month.

 

[rkamsterdam]

My sister (a general dentist) and her husband (an internal medicine doctor) had to live with our parents for 3 years before they could afford to buy a home. Because of such high standard of living in California, my college buddy decided to sell his practice, took the Western board exam, and moved to Texas. A couple of other friends moved to Nevada and Arizona.

two things.

1. thats frickin ridiculous that a doctor and dentist on their salary couldnt afford to find housing in OC and had to shack up with parents. I'm sure as hell glad that I dont live or plan to live in an area with such inflated real estate prices. THe south = affordability.

2. Secondly, I think you need to revise "standard of living" to cost of real estate. While the standard of living may be slightly higher on the west coast, the difference is negligible compared to difference in real estate prices.

 

[1992Corolla]

I'm going into dentistry b/c I like it. If I am going to be paying off loans for the rest of my life, I might as well be doing something I enjoy, right? 🙂😀😎👍

Do what you love, and you'll never have to work a day in your life.

I did it for the money. ALONG with other things. Fortunately I do like the field, but I also look at it as a means of doing other things that I enjoy, like making websites.🙄

 

[charlestweed]

thats frickin ridiculous that a doctor and dentist on their salary couldnt afford to find housing in OC and had to shack up with parents. I'm sure as hell glad that I dont live or plan to live in an area with such inflated real estate prices. THe south = affordability.

Yeah, it is ridiculously expensive to live in California. To save 120k for a down payment for a 600k home is not very easy…..especially when you also have to take out a business loan to set up (or to buy) a dental practice. A 600k home in Orange County is just an average 2000sf, 3bed, 2bath home.

There is nothing wrong w/ living with the parents. My sister had ideal “babysitter” (our mother), she could afford to set up a dental practice from scratch, and she could pay back student loans faster. When my sister lived with our parents, she actually helped our parents make mortgage payments since both of them retired.

 

[btizzels]

Yeah, it is ridiculously expensive to live in California. To save 120k for a down payment for a 600k home is not very easy…..especially when you also have to take out a business loan to set up (or to buy) a dental practice. A 600k home in Orange County is just an average 2000sf, 3bed, 2bath home.


So true....... about the cost of California

 

[Awara]

I think it really depends on what you consider affordable in southern california. Most people who have professional degrees feel like renting is like out of whack or something. My friend graduated from D school in 2003 and opened a scratch start in San Diego, CA. He lived like student for two more years in an apt with his wife while he build up his practice. he still drives 97 honda accord while most of his friends upon graduation got beamers and Lexus. Now this year he finally bought a house, well a 970K Dollar house on which he put down a quarter of Mill. His practice is doing about 700K and he is taking home about 300K not bad. He put good 5 years worth of hard work after graduation without splurging on luxury. he lives still modest lifestyle and below his means. Moral of the story is that just because you have a DDS doesn't mean you can start living like king after graduation. You have to plan for it, work for it and and build your practice which takes time and effort and lot of new dental graduates don't realize that.

I don't think there is anything wrong living with parents at all. My parents and I will live most likely together even after marriage because this what my culture is and where I come from and it has nothing to do with money. My cousin an orthopaedic surgeon lives with his parents after marriage and if I have to estimate he is probably taking home 500K with his wife being a pharmacist. Financial help is one thing but just because you live with your parents doesn't mean you don't make a good living.

 

[FutureDMD1234]

Yes a lot of my friends bought brand new cars right when they got out of dental school. The problem is yes you are making a lot of money right off the bat, but really no more than any other medical professional. If you are looking at dental starting salaries vs a lot of medical starting salaries ours' (dental) pales in comparison (unless you are comparing a general dentist to a family prac.in which they are very similar) I mean if you look at the average dental salary in the US it is $200,000 which really isnt that much compared to the average salary of a physician, or Pharmacists that are making $100,000 starting or CRNA's, etc.(and I know that the average salary survey isnt that accurate, but then that would hold true for every other profession also). The difference is that most of the med residents are older since they have to go through the 3 year residency and thus have kids etc. Many of us dental grads dont have kids and thus have different priorities such as the nice car and big house until a few years later. Many dentists also have a different mindset in life and enjoy working, but also reaping the benefits of that work through buying things, playing golf, etc. I have noticed many of my medical collegues have to work and arent very good at enjoying life. What does this translate into? Everyone thingking dentists are lazy because they make so much and can afford to take fridays off, drive mercedes, etc. I know plenty of ENT's making over 2 million dollars a year who are in private practice, so can choose their hours and all of them work 50-60 hour work weeks. The funny thing is that it I imagine it has gotten quite a few new grads in trouble, because the first thing they told us and kept repeating in our dental management class was to not buy a new car, etc!

Yes it's true but we start our career earlier than the physicians. It's give us more time to increase our salary about the time their career start after residency.

 

[poopypants]

Yes it's true but we start our career earlier than the physicians. It's give us more time to increase our salary about the time their career start after residency.

Agree. If you consider a 3yr min residency, 300K+ in debt+ building intrest. Dentists start making a good living about five years sooner. There are several MD's that I work under in their lat 30s, with still over 300K or more in loans.

 

[ddstothecor]

I'm wondering about my "career" choice, quite often, as of late: Moved back home (Dad's a DDS), and took a job that quickly turned out to be one big lie. Now, my work is 2 days at a starter practice that has more than it's fair share of slow days (avg. 300/day production), and 3 days at a place I can't stand (Any corporate dental USA?). Soon I'll be leaving there, but then what? Slow Fridays at my Dad's office?!

My buddy is banking with another corporate/chop shop type place, but my conscience won't allow me to work without a dam without feeling guilty, let alone prepping in 3 ops at a time and then allowing the end result to be out of my hands. Sure, it sounds like I'm bitching, but jobs are few and far between here. I guess I'd have to buy a practice to grant a steady patient flow. At this point, the military doesn't look like a half-bad option with 3K-4K/mo in loans a reality, and my income just barely reaching that point. I mean, WTF is wrong with this picture?!!!

 

[scandalouslj]

Yes and no, if you end up doing a GPR or AGD they are only 2 years behind considering a lot of med residencies such as ER, are only 3 years, and the average starting salary for an ER doc was around 200,000 a year working 15 days a month. On top of that most med schools are a lot cheaper than dental schools. For example my instate dental school was 25,000 a year for tuition while med school is $13,000. To DDStothecor, if you are considering going into the military perhaps you should consider moving somewhere else where there are practices looking for associates because they cant handle the practice load. I assume you graduated from Nova and thus are located in Florida. Looking at the associates wanted classifieds it seems like there are so many opportunities in Florida anyone could be successful there. I know when I was looking there were a ton of places that were looking for associates who would be busy from the start. For example I got calls from about 4 dentists in Charlottesville, VA looking for associates. Now it sucks that the starter job turned out to be a lie, and unfortunately that tends to happen sometimes with associateships as older dentists try to take advantage of the younger dentist who have very little options. I know i def interviewed at a couple that made it sound like heaven, but then I figured out they really werent ready for an associate for several years (the owner said he wanted to slow down, which I could tell really wasnt the case). But look around Im sure there are even other dentists in your city looking for associates because they cant handle their patient load.

 

[dentwannabe]

I'm wondering about my "career" choice, quite often, as of late: Moved back home (Dad's a DDS), and took a job that quickly turned out to be one big lie. Now, my work is 2 days at a starter practice that has more than it's fair share of slow days (avg. 300/day production), and 3 days at a place I can't stand (Any corporate dental USA?). Soon I'll be leaving there, but then what? Slow Fridays at my Dad's office?!

My buddy is banking with another corporate/chop shop type place, but my conscience won't allow me to work without a dam without feeling guilty, let alone prepping in 3 ops at a time and then allowing the end result to be out of my hands. Sure, it sounds like I'm bitching, but jobs are few and far between here. I guess I'd have to buy a practice to grant a steady patient flow. At this point, the military doesn't look like a half-bad option with 3K-4K/mo in loans a reality, and my income just barely reaching that point. I mean, WTF is wrong with this picture?!!!

Wait, so you're saying you're producing too little at that 2 day a week office or you're not getting enough patients? The other job at 3 days is a corporate dental place and yet your conscience won't allow you to work at a corporate dental place?
Please clarify, where you are located and why are you having so many problems in finding a job?

 

[ddstothecor]

Wait, so you're saying you're producing too little at that 2 day a week office or you're not getting enough patients? The other job at 3 days is a corporate dental place and yet your conscience won't allow you to work at a corporate dental place?
Please clarify, where you are located and why are you having so many problems in finding a job?

Patient flow is slow at the private office, mostly.
I stated that I'm leaving the other place.
The market is saturated - at least from my viewpoint - where I am. Besides, it's not corporate dentistry, per se, but I suppose it's circumstance and support staff too. Yet, from seasoned dentists' perspectives, some of the corporations have less than stellar reputations.