Dentistry, a glamorous life? Or not?

[RAlec114]

Well I'm still new to this site, but I've been learning of all the debt you accumulate after undergrad, grad, specializing, and buying a practice - it's insane.

With an income that is not as high as doctors, dentists will have to spend a LOT of their life paying off these debts..... this is not the life that I had "imagined." I originally had the idea of trying to get into Penn's 7yr program (150k undergrad, 320k grad) but with only 80k of financial support from parents this would be close to suicide. So now I'm looking at other cheaper schools...

Well in all, this is not the life I had pictured for dentists. Am I wrong? I had thought that dentists had an "easy" life with lower work hours (than MD counterparts), not that much stress (again to MD counterparts), and a stable high income of like 200k. But it looks like i'll have to go to a cheap, non-prestigious university just to live a life paying back debts from school and a practice.

Please give me some summaries of your experiences, dentists! Please share your $$$debt, how much you make(GP or specialized), and how "great" life is as a dentist.

I'm merely putting numbers together so I don't know how life as a dentist really is.

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[cdmOMR]

Well I'm still new to this site, but I've been learning of all the debt you accumulate after undergrad, grad, specializing, and buying a practice - it's insane.

With an income that is not as high as doctors, dentists will have to spend a LOT of their life paying off these debts..... this is not the life that I had "imagined." I originally had the idea of trying to get into Penn's 7yr program (150k undergrad, 320k grad) but with only 80k of financial support from parents this would be close to suicide. So now I'm looking at other cheaper schools...

Well in all, this is not the life I had pictured for dentists. Am I wrong? I had thought that dentists had an "easy" life with lower work hours (than MD counterparts), not that much stress (again to MD counterparts), and a stable high income of like 200k. But it looks like i'll have to go to a cheap, non-prestigious university just to live a life paying back debts from school and a practice.

Please give me some summaries of your experiences, dentists! Please share your $$$debt, how much you make(GP or specialized), and how "great" life is as a dentist.

I'm merely putting numbers together so I don't know how life as a dentist really is.

Hmm where to start.
1)Yes, dental school is expensive, not even counting undergrad you can rack up 3,4,500k in debt. But its an investment.

2) Dentists are doctors, and not sure where your getting your information, but the salary of a private practice dentist rivals or surpasses that of a primary care physician. Yes the surgeons and cardiologists etc make a ton, but so do the dental specialists (Ortho, endo, and OS can make just as much as some of the top MD specialties). But all of that is for naught, because it all depends how hard you want to work, where you work, what you charge, your patient base etc. Bottom line, dentists make good money and most dont have a prob paying off debt.

3) I dont think you can really call any medical profession glamorous... its not like Nip/Tuck for the MDs, and in all likelihood you wont be making millions per year as a dentist.

4)Of course dentistry comes with some stresses... your responsible for the care of patients...and many of those patients dont like seeing you. Its all about how you deal with it though; some dentists end up hating every day they work, but if you like what you do, you find a way to love it. I cant comment too much Im still in school, but go talk to some real dentists and some real physicians.

5)It really doesnt matter that much where you go to dental school. Its more about what fits you. I go to a "cheap" "non-prestigious" school and I could prob get into any specialty I want if I gave enough effort. And if I dont, Im sure Ill still come out a competent practitioner

 

[Regmata]

Bummer...wish I would have found out earlier that my cheap, non-prestigious education wasn't going to let me live the life of a real doctor, now what do I do with all of these loans?

 

[DrReo]

Bummer...wish I would have found out earlier that my cheap, non-prestigious education wasn't going to let me live the life of a real doctor, now what do I do with all of these loans?

Didn't Obama say "if you work for me, I'll pay 'em for y'all?"

 

[Regmata]

I thought he said something more along the lines of if you work for free I'll pay other people's way for ya

 

[Ostracized]

I don't believe that education for this career is worth $470K plus interest. When you subtract those loan payments from your income for the next few decades, you can't be making enough to justify the stress, schooling or responsibility.

 

[anishannayya]

OP, why the multiple posts on different threads?

 

[reapply2007]

The OP is still in high school. It's not too late late to do something fun. Spend the 80K on booze and ladies. This is a glamorous life.

 

[mike3kgt]

The OP is still in high school. It's not too late late to do something fun. Spend the 80K on booze and ladies. This is a glamorous life.

👍

Some days I wonder what life would've been like if I didn't spend all those hours studying and years in school.

I'd probably be some poor sailor on a sailboat, traveling from island to island and eating fish everyday. I'd probably have no student loan debt, no mortgage and probably a live-in girlfriend rather than a wife. Man, when I put it like that, dentistry sucks.

 

[RAlec114]

I don't believe that education for this career is worth $470K plus interest. When you subtract those loan payments from your income for the next few decades, you can't be making enough to justify the stress, schooling or responsibility.

Hm okay. That 470k can buy me a lot of booze and chicks.

I'll look into some cheaper schools. More responses please

 

[Andre3k]

Hm okay. That 470k can buy me a lot of booze and chicks.

I'll look into some cheaper schools. More responses please

You will never get your hands on 470k for chicks and booze if you didn't go to school.

Comparatively speaking yes dentistry is a glamorous life style given the fact that an average american age 25+ only makes about 40k a year. The average dentist makes about 150k a year with the potential to make much more. As a dentist straight out of school it is very likely for you to start out making at least 80k-100k after taxes. Yes you will have the debt. But even after making your regular loan payments you still are putting way more money in your pocket than most people. The only people who make money comparable to this are physicians. Dentists have more autonomy, more free time, with a shorter amount of time spent in school than physicians. A general dentist's salary is the same if not better than that of a general family physician, look it up. Plus physicians have to do a residency while dentists are already out making money and making loan payments. Eventually you will pay off that debt, then you will be looking at even more money.

It all depends on what your definition of glamorous is. Compared to the rest of America you will be very well off. Compared to a movie star or a professional athlete you will be poor. It all depends on your frame of reference and your expectations. There is no other career period that will make you this much guaranteed money for such a short amount of school time (if you find another one let me know). Most rich people have debt, loans, credit, etc. Debt and credit are the american way. Nobody spends money they actually have any more. Our school loans and our practice loans are INVESTMENTS.

The average dental school debt is around $200k. Mines will be around 150k. That wont be hard at all to pay off. Very few of us have 400k+ debt thats ridiculous.

Also there is absolutely no reason to go to a ridiculously expensive dental school or undergrad for that matter. All accredited dental schools will prepare you to be a dentist. You should chose the cheapest option you are comfortable with. If you run up 400k in dental school debt that will be because of poor decision making and nothing else.

 

[anishannayya]

You will never get your hands on 470k for chicks and booze if you didn't go to school.

Comparatively speaking yes dentistry is a glamorous life style given the fact that an average american age 25+ only makes about 40k a year. The average dentist makes about 150k a year with the potential to make much more. As a dentist straight out of school it is very likely for you to start out making at least 80k-100k after taxes. Yes you will have the debt. But even after making your regular loan payments you still are putting way more money in your pocket than most people. The only people who make money comparable to this are physicians. Dentists have more autonomy, more free time, with a shorter amount of time spent in school than physicians. A general dentist's salary is the same if not better than that of a general family physician, look it up. Plus physicians have to do a residency while dentists are already out making money and making loan payments. Eventually you will pay off that debt, then you will be looking at even more money.

It all depends on what your definition of glamorous is. Compared to the rest of America you will be very well off. Compared to a movie star or a professional athlete you will be poor. It all depends on your frame of reference and your expectations. There is no other career period that will make you this much guaranteed money for such a short amount of school time (if you find another one let me know). Most rich people have debt, loans, credit, etc. Debt and credit are the american way. Nobody spends money they actually have any more. Our school loans and our practice loans are INVESTMENTS.

The average dental school debt is around $200k. Mines will be around 150k. That wont be hard at all to pay off. Very few of us have 400k+ debt thats ridiculous.

Also there is absolutely no reason to go to a ridiculously expensive dental school or undergrad for that matter. All accredited dental schools will prepare you to be a dentist. You should chose the cheapest option you are comfortable with. If you run up 400k in dental school debt that will be because of poor decision making and nothing else.

👍

Seriously OP, are you looking for a reason not to like dentistry? To me your coming off as very close-minded if your only goal is to live a "glamorous lifestyle". Please, post back in a couple years. Your idea of "glamorous" will be very different then.

 

[klmnop]

curious why nobody has mentioned the exceedingly high suicide rate among dentists as compared to most other medical professions

glamorous, it can be
tedious, it will be
fulfilling, thats up for you to decide

 

[6897round2]

curious why nobody has mentioned the exceedingly high suicide rate among dentists as compared to most other medical professions

glamorous, it can be
tedious, it will be
fulfilling, thats up for you to decide

Because it's not "exceedingly high" nor is it even higher than other professionals.

Please provide some data, Mr. Premed, before you make bold statements with qualifiers like "exceedingly high"...

 

[biorenaissance]

curious why nobody has mentioned the exceedingly high suicide rate among dentists as compared to most other medical professions

glamorous, it can be
tedious, it will be
fulfilling, thats up for you to decide

Yes with all those credible studies out there to back this assessment up its astonishing that anyone goes into dentistry. Though you can find just as many credible studies to expose physicians high rate of erectile dysfunction or pharmacists high rate of man boobs.

 

[RAlec114]

Ok thank you all; I've given up any idea of going to Penn or any school that will lead me to 300k+ debt. Currently looking into some other programs @ cheaper schools...

Though you can find just as many credible studies to expose physicians high rate of erectile dysfunction or pharmacists high rate of man boobs.

lol'd 😀 👍

 

[RAlec114]

👍

Seriously OP, are you looking for a reason not to like dentistry? To me your coming off as very close-minded if your only goal is to live a "glamorous lifestyle". Please, post back in a couple years. Your idea of "glamorous" will be very different then.

No I just want to make sure I know all the drawbacks before I head into a career (especially a program that will guarantee me a spot in dental school, there's no backing out if I go into that. so I want to make sure that I'm 100% positive I know the ups and downs of dentistry before I go into it.)

Forgive me if you guys completely disagree, but I am interested in dentistry because of the high stable income, adjustable work hours, and manageable work (I don't mind working with teeth). So I thought that this would be the "ideal" job for me, provided that I am not interested in other careers... which I'm not.

 

[Babnik]

curious why nobody has mentioned the exceedingly high suicide rate among dentists as compared to most other medical professions

glamorous, it can be
tedious, it will be
fulfilling, thats up for you to decide

Not anymore, physicians have highest suicide rates now.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...00908/the-occupation-the-highest-suicide-rate

 

[RAlec114]

The average dental school debt is around $200k. Mines will be around 150k. That wont be hard at all to pay off. Very few of us have 400k+ debt thats ridiculous.

Thank you. I should have just asked what the average debt is for dental school. Btw, that is undergrad+grad right? No specializing?

 

[Babnik]

Well I'm still new to this site, but I've been learning of all the debt you accumulate after undergrad, grad, specializing, and buying a practice - it's insane.

With an income that is not as high as doctors, dentists will have to spend a LOT of their life paying off these debts..... this is not the life that I had "imagined." I originally had the idea of trying to get into Penn's 7yr program (150k undergrad, 320k grad) but with only 80k of financial support from parents this would be close to suicide. So now I'm looking at other cheaper schools...

Well in all, this is not the life I had pictured for dentists. Am I wrong? I had thought that dentists had an "easy" life with lower work hours (than MD counterparts), not that much stress (again to MD counterparts), and a stable high income of like 200k. But it looks like i'll have to go to a cheap, non-prestigious university just to live a life paying back debts from school and a practice.

Please give me some summaries of your experiences, dentists! Please share your $$$debt, how much you make(GP or specialized), and how "great" life is as a dentist.

I'm merely putting numbers together so I don't know how life as a dentist really is.

The OP definitely sounds like hes in high school. A job is a job. If you like what your doing you will be fine. If you want a glamorous life go into acting, but even acting will suck if you don't like doing it.

 

[dmd87]

You will never get your hands on 470k for chicks and booze if you didn't go to school.

Comparatively speaking yes dentistry is a glamorous life style given the fact that an average american age 25+ only makes about 40k a year. The average dentist makes about 150k a year with the potential to make much more. As a dentist straight out of school it is very likely for you to start out making at least 80k-100k after taxes. Yes you will have the debt. But even after making your regular loan payments you still are putting way more money in your pocket than most people. The only people who make money comparable to this are physicians. Dentists have more autonomy, more free time, with a shorter amount of time spent in school than physicians. A general dentist's salary is the same if not better than that of a general family physician, look it up. Plus physicians have to do a residency while dentists are already out making money and making loan payments. Eventually you will pay off that debt, then you will be looking at even more money.

It all depends on what your definition of glamorous is. Compared to the rest of America you will be very well off. Compared to a movie star or a professional athlete you will be poor. It all depends on your frame of reference and your expectations. There is no other career period that will make you this much guaranteed money for such a short amount of school time (if you find another one let me know). Most rich people have debt, loans, credit, etc. Debt and credit are the american way. Nobody spends money they actually have any more. Our school loans and our practice loans are INVESTMENTS.

The average dental school debt is around $200k. Mines will be around 150k. That wont be hard at all to pay off. Very few of us have 400k+ debt thats ridiculous.

Also there is absolutely no reason to go to a ridiculously expensive dental school or undergrad for that matter. All accredited dental schools will prepare you to be a dentist. You should chose the cheapest option you are comfortable with. If you run up 400k in dental school debt that will be because of poor decision making and nothing else.

Ah the ignorance. Good thing the analysts at most investment banks aren't pulling in 80K base + fat bonuses at the age of 23 after doing an undergrad.

 

[mike3kgt]

curious why nobody has mentioned the exceedingly high suicide rate among dentists as compared to most other medical professions

Let's settle this once and for all based upon contemporary research literature search:

1. Heim E. Job stressors and coping in health professions. Psychother Psychosom 1991;55:90–99.

Health hazards in doctors are considerable, although life expectancy has improved and is comparable to the general public, but still lower as compared to other professionals. Depression and substance abuse are related to higher suicide rates. Our own studies show limited coping skills in nurses, but good buffering effect in 1,700 Swiss dentists.

-------------------------------------

2. Boxer PA, Burnett C, Swanson N. Suicide and occupation: a review of the literature. J Occup Environ Med 1995; 37:442–452.

Both male and female physicians had elevated rates of suicide, and reported a mixture of results for dentists.

-------------------------------------

3. Petersen MR, Burnett CA. The suicide mortality of working physicians and dentists. Occup Med (Lond). 2008 Jan;58(1):25-9. Epub 2007 Oct 27.

The suicide rate for white male physicians and dentists, although about twice as high as that for white female physicians, was actually less than that for the working US white male population. ... This was only the case for white female physicians; the white male physicians and dentists had rates
about half of those for the standard population. ... Thus white male physicians and dentists have a lower overall risk of suicide compared
to the working population, but they have a similar risk compared to working professionals. Our results indicate that white male physicians and dentists have a lower overall suicide rate than other working white males in the USA, if one defines ‘overall’ to mean over all ages between 20 and 64. ... We have shown that white male dentists have a suicide rate which is similar to that of white male physicians.

-------------------------------------

4. Meltzer H, Griffiths C, Brock A, Rooney C, Jenkins R. Patterns of suicide by occupation in England and Wales: 2001-2005. Br J Psychiatry. 2008 Jul;193(1):73-6.

The Standardized Mortality Rate (SMR) for male dental practitioners and nurses was not significantly different from 100 and for male medical practitioners the SMR indicated lower mortality than the general population. The SMRs for female veterinarians was significantly greater than 100, indicating higher suicide mortality than the general population in this group, but this was based on a small number of suicides. For female medical practitioners and nurses of both genders, the SMR was higher than 100, but was not statistically significant.

-------------------------------------

5. Alexander RE. Stress-related suicide by dentists and other health care workers. Fact or folklore? J Am Dent Assoc. 2001 Jun;132(6):786-94.

**I recommend reading this article, it has a VERY good literature review**

There is no consistent statistical evidence available to prove that dentists are suicide-prone, and most reliable data suggest the opposite. Nevertheless, even if dentists’ suicide rates are lower than those of the general public. ... It has been suggested that many professionals who commit suicide are alcoholics or have a primary affective disorder (such as unipolar or bipolar [manicdepressive] disorder) that manifest itself clinically as anxiety, irritability and depression. Up to two-thirds of female physicians are alleged to have affective disorders. If this is correct, many physicians’ suicides can be viewed as outcomes of pre-existing disorders in people who selected medicine as a career.

-------------------------------------

I could probably keep citing more and more articles, but from what I've read in published evidence-based studies and not from empirical information (from which the OP (and most physicians) is basing his comments on), there is no statistical significance to the assumption that dentists have higher suicide rates.

In fact, according to Alexander (see #5), "Bers said that the contemporary statistical origins of the belief that dentists commit suicide at a higher rate than the general population seemed to have occurred in the 1960s; he based this opinion on articles that appeared at that time. These assertions were not questioned closely until 1975, when the American Dental Association published a study showing that data from 31 states (from which data were available) did not support the conclusion that dentists commit suicide at higher rates than the general population."

There have been numerous studies indicating that dentists have a high-level of burnout due to professional stress, however. Don't get me wrong, this is a very demanding, challenging job both physically and emotionally. I would just like all pre-meds, med students, and physicians to get their heads out of their empirical asses and actually read the evidence. Maybe I should post this on "pre-medical" forum.

 

[jay47]

The entire myth that dentists have a higher suicide rate has been propagated by that damn movie "The Whole Nine Yards" with Bruce Willis and Mathew Perry. Every "says" that dentists have the highest rate of suicide, but yet that's because they just "heard" it from someone else, not because they read it in a book or saw it from a reputable source.

1+ Mike

 

[Andre3k]

Ah the ignorance. Good thing the analysts at most investment banks aren't pulling in 80K base + fat bonuses at the age of 23 after doing an undergrad.

Its harder to get into that field though man. You will need a masters or a phd to make really big money. Plus its a million people trying to become investment bankers every year. And you have to be highly qualified and extremely hardworking straight out of undergrad to be come one. Only a fraction of that amount of people are trying to be dentists each year. If you are lucky enough yeah you can land a job paying comparable to dentist salaries or even more. But becoming an investment banker is not as guaranteed a path as dentistry is.

Most of the people that come out of school with a business degree aiming to make big money as an investment banker do not have jobs paying that kind of salary by the time they are 25. You have to be the best and most qualified.

You don't have to be smartest student in the world to get into or make it through dental school. And most of the people that graduate from dental school 9 times out of 10 will make six figures. Even the worst dentist makes good money. And if you go straight through undergrad to dental school you can be done with school in your mid 20s. Ill be 25.

The choice is yours. Come out of undergrad and work your ass off to be an investment banker with no guarantee that you will land your dream job. Or come out of undergrad and work your ass of for 4 years in dental school with a pretty good chance of having your hard work pay off in the long run.

High risk high reward(Banker) vs Moderate risk high reward(Dentist)

 

[HupHolland]

Thank you. I should have just asked what the average debt is for dental school. Btw, that is undergrad+grad right? No specializing?

Go to a good state school that has some great atheltics (think UNC, UGA, UF, FSU, etc) and then attend a public dental school. Your debt will be on the lower end of the "doctor" spectrum. Attending a private school is foolish if you don't have the means to pay for it. I know in high school it is the cool thing to do, and if you don't go to an ivy league school then you're not as "brilliant" as your ivy-attending classmates.. but 10 years from now the joke will be on them.

Best of luck,
Hup (went to a state school for college, state school for dental school)

 

[Andre3k]

Thank you. I should have just asked what the average debt is for dental school. Btw, that is undergrad+grad right? No specializing?

I have had scholarships for most of my education thus far.
So mine will be at the most: 20k (Undergrad) + 150k (Dental) = 170k (Total). No specializing.

You should be able to get out of dental school with no more that 200k - 250k worth of debt. Including living expenses my dental school is about 50k a year times 4 that's 200k. And im not at the cheapest school in america nor am i living in the cheapest city in america either. Dc is expensive.

Choose the most cost effective path for you.

 

[mike3kgt]

Go to a good state school that has some great atheltics (think UNC, UGA, UF, FSU, etc) and then attend a public dental school. Your debt will be on the lower end of the "doctor" spectrum. Attending a private school is foolish if you don't have the means to pay for it. I know in high school it is the cool thing to do, and if you don't go to an ivy league school then you're not as "brilliant" as your ivy-attending classmates.. but 10 years from now the joke will be on them.

Best of luck,
Hup (went to a state school for college, state school for dental school)

👍

There are some days I wish I went to Florida for undergrad and d-school ($$ wise). But then, I realize that where I went to undergrad (private school) gave me the opportunity to get where I am today. Don't say it couldn't have happened at the state school, but life works out for a reason. Who knows, you could go to a large public state school and get lost in the number system and end up drinking/partying too much to study.

Nothing wrong with either way, it's just way too easy to paint a broad brush about public/private. Much easier to state "go where it's the cheapest... within reason." I.e. I couldn't imagine going to BU (55k / year tuition) over UF (11k / year tuition), but I could definitely imagine going to Nova (42k / year tuition) over Ohio State (28k in-state, 58k out of-state / year tuition) 🙂.

You have to figure out where you get in and then go from there.

 

[klmnop]

Because it's not "exceedingly high" nor is it even higher than other professionals.

Please provide some data, Mr. Premed, before you make bold statements with qualifiers like "exceedingly high"...

ok mr. junior member
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/118985602/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

 

[klmnop]

Let's settle this once and for all based upon contemporary research literature search:

ha,
is there a reason most of your articles are either referring to british data (not relevant), interpreted by dentists (conflict of interest), or only contain data up to 1992 (not current)

fyi, nobody ever said physician suicides weren't high as well. there are a lot of medical fields besides doctors and dentists, hence the "higher than most". if you are going to refute something, refute what i said, not why you think i am implying.

regardless, i don't want to turn this thread into a suicide argument, i know plenty of content dentists, i just thought it should be noted.

 

[mike3kgt]

ha,
is there a reason most of your articles are either referring to british data (not relevant), interpreted by dentists (conflict of interest), or only contain data up to 1992 (not current)

fyi, nobody ever said physician suicides weren't high as well. there are a lot of medical fields besides doctors and dentists, hence the "higher than most". if you are going to refute something, refute what i said, not why you think i am implying.

I am refuting what you are saying. You stated there was an "exceedingly high suicide rate among dentists as compared to most other medical professions." The literature clearly refutes this statement and indicates there is no definitive evidence to support this claim. On the contrary, the literature represents a similar suicide rate amongst physicians and dentists.

If you actually spent the time looking at the JADA article, there is a very comprehensive literature review regarding the subject . Do you find that since the article was not published in JAMA or any strictly medical journals is it not relevant? The article was published in JADA to refute the belief of the medical field that dentists are "suicidal, hahaha!" What better journal to publish in than a dental journal.

When people make comments about "dentists have a higher suicide rate" it's often a reference to the general population. There have been some studies published that have indicated a higher suicide rate for dentists than the general population. (Stack S. Suicide risk among dentists: a multivariate analysis. Deviant Behav 1996;17:107-18., Bers GS. Dentist suicide: a problem? J Okla Dent Assoc 1980;71(1):14,21.) You are happy to look up these studies, as I found their data and bias to be significant and also, they only look at dentist/general population and not dentist/physician.

Many of the studies are earlier (pre-1990) because most of the organizations do not collect data re: dentist suicides anymore. I would imagine that that their families and the ones affected are a little sensitive to the ADA or researchers probing into their lives to determine why they killed themselves.

What we do know is: #1. Dentists and physicians have a higher suicide rate as compared to the general population and #2. There is no conclusive evidence that dentists have a higher suicide rate than other medical professionals.

See the following re: #1.

1. Desjardins M. Physician suicide. Can something be done? Can Fam Physician. 1997 Nov;43:1900-1, 1907-9.

Published data vary widely according to the year, country, and culture being studied, and because of numerous methodologic problems. Nonetheless, the suicide rate for physicians is higher than for the general population.

2. Dyrbye LN, Thomas MR, et al. Burnout and suicidal ideation among U.S. medical students. Ann Intern Med. 2008 Sep 2;149(5):334-41.

"Our large, multi-institutional study demonstrates a high prevalence of recent suicidal ideation among U.S. medical students, with approximately 1 of 9 students having thoughts of suicide in the past year. The rate of suicidal ideation among medical students in our study (11.2%) is higher than for individuals of similar age in the general U.S. population"

--------------------------------

So what I am saying is that I encourage you to back up your statement and claims with evidence rather than opinion. Let me know if you need help doing a literature search, it may help you rationalize your beliefs, but probably not. Remember, there is bias in everything, even published, index-medicus peer-reviewed medical journals so it's almost impossible to totally exclude bias, especially if you only read the conclusions.

 

[klmnop]

read what i said,
i acknowledged physicians have a high suicide rate too. all of your referenced studies either compare doctors to dentists or both professions to the general population. also i know you are aware that doctors and dentists do not make up most of medical professions, and none of your studies have indicated that claim otherwise.

and yes there is obviously bias in everything, i am not saying this article should be published in jama, but neither jada. it is not a medical article but a sociological study and should be published as thus, with as little conflict of interest as possible

 

[RAlec114]

Go to a good state school that has some great atheltics (think UNC, UGA, UF, FSU, etc) and then attend a public dental school. Your debt will be on the lower end of the "doctor" spectrum. Attending a private school is foolish if you don't have the means to pay for it. I know in high school it is the cool thing to do, and if you don't go to an ivy league school then you're not as "brilliant" as your ivy-attending classmates.. but 10 years from now the joke will be on them.

Best of luck,
Hup (went to a state school for college, state school for dental school)

thanks for the advice.
👍

 

[RAlec114]

I have had scholarships for most of my education thus far.
So mine will be at the most: 20k (Undergrad) + 150k (Dental) = 170k (Total). No specializing.

You should be able to get out of dental school with no more that 200k - 250k worth of debt. Including living expenses my dental school is about 50k a year times 4 that's 200k. And im not at the cheapest school in america nor am i living in the cheapest city in america either. Dc is expensive.

Choose the most cost effective path for you.

I see.. do most dentists not specialize? Is specializing worth it financially? I guess I should worry about specializing later but I'm curious 😀

 

[klmnop]

like i said though, i didn't want to start an argument

every article i have read has indicated it is difficult to measure this, which is why it is notable when a handful of studies find a large difference despite a handful finding no significant difference. if you could find some that say it were significantly lower that would prove that it is nearly impossible to measure accurately.

lets let the readers decide.

i'm considering my end of the discussion dead, feel free to reply

 

[6897round2]

like i said though, i didn't want to start an argument

every article i have read has indicated it is difficult to measure this, which is why it is notable when a handful of studies find a large difference despite a handful finding no significant difference. if you could find some that say it were significantly lower that would prove that it is nearly impossible to measure accurately.

lets let the readers decide.

i'm considering my end of the discussion dead, feel free to reply

Surely psychologists have little bias with respect to studying suicide, right?

http://www.apa.org/monitor/jan01/suicide.aspx

I think everyone is getting in your face about this because you made a declarative statement with little to no data to support it and are now saying that the evidence that's out there isn't great and is biased, but we should still believe that you're correct.

I wonder what your opinion about bias would be if the JADA article had, in fact, found that dentists have a higher suicide rate...It seems to me that you're just backtracking because people found actual evidence, in greater abundance than what you've provided, that suggests that you are the worst thing a pre-med can ever be: wrong.

 

[klmnop]

haha, you're right, i'll give you that, we sure don't like to be/admit we're wrong

 

[lotexigeus]

haha, you're right, i'll give you that, we sure don't like to be/admit we're wrong

k, now gtfo of our thread. 🙂

 

[klmnop]

k, now gtfo of our thread. 🙂

its a public thread assdumb, and the public deserves to know the facts
besides, i have no idea why people take this personally. has nothing to do with your ego and your own emotional issues. they are just statistics and studies.
dentists have awesome lives, i'd try to be one too if i had more interest in the field, despite the studies.

 

[Regmata]

Clever name calling and great sarcasm detection, I tip my hat to you sir

 

[lotexigeus]

its a public thread assdumb, and the public deserves to know the facts
besides, i have no idea why people take this personally. has nothing to do with your ego and your own emotional issues. they are just statistics and studies.
dentists have awesome lives, i'd try to be one too if i had more interest in the field, despite the studies.

and what facts did you bring to the table mr. efghij?

 

[avatarftw]

a

 

[dentalWorks]

regardless, i don't want to turn this thread into a suicide argument.

yet your first post in this thread indicated "the exceedingly high suicide rate among dentists as compared to most other medical professions".... why would you make a big statement like that, provide no prove or any indication of statistical data and THEN claim you don't wanna start an argument?

It doesn't sound to me your here to state the "facts". Your first post seems pretty geared to smear the image of what a dentist is. Unless you have something constructive to say, please hold your "facts" to yourself

 

[biorenaissance]

its a public thread assdumb, and the public deserves to know the facts
besides, i have no idea why people take this personally. has nothing to do with your ego and your own emotional issues. they are just statistics and studies.
dentists have awesome lives, i'd try to be one too if i had more interest in the field, despite the studies.

Why do med school rejects with....

MI resident, 3.31, 3.2sci, 30Q, Good letters, Research 1.5yrs, extensive hospital jobs + volunteering.

2010 App: No MD interviews.

...come on the dental thread and b*(*)&th about the suicide rate of dentist? because they're big time D*^k bags

 

[dl9006]

Why do med school rejects with....

MI resident, 3.31, 3.2sci, 30Q, Good letters, Research 1.5yrs, extensive hospital jobs + volunteering.

2010 App: No MD interviews.

...come on the dental thread and b*(*)&th about the suicide rate of dentist? because they're big time D*^k bags

🙂

 

[klmnop]

Why do med school rejects with....

MI resident, 3.31, 3.2sci, 30Q, Good letters, Research 1.5yrs, extensive hospital jobs + volunteering.

2010 App: No MD interviews.

...come on the dental thread and b*(*)&th about the suicide rate of dentist? because they're big time D*^k bags

excellent research, because i got in....

 

[6897round2]

excellent research, because i got in....

Great - maybe in medical school you'll learn how to look up data and analyze it critically in order to temper your opinions with as few blatantly inaccurate qualifiers (i.e. phrases like "exceedingly high") as possible.

 

[klmnop]

Great - maybe in medical school you'll learn how to look up data and analyze it critically in order to temper your opinions with as few blatantly inaccurate qualifiers (i.e. phrases like "exceedingly high") as possible.

i hope so
as a premed i always thought 6.6 times as high as other professions was 'exceedingly'... maybe it will change my mind

 

[biorenaissance]

i hope so
as a premed i always thought 6.6 times as high as other professions was 'exceedingly'... maybe it will change my mind

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UdmYInXplY[/YOUTUBE]

 

[6897round2]

i hope so
as a premed i always thought 6.6 times as high as other professions was 'exceedingly'... maybe it will change my mind

You're basing this on one study when there are a number of others that say that physicians have higher suicide rates? I find it curious that you're doing so in spite of the fact that a) this study may not have as much relevance to suicide in the US, given firearm laws in the UK and practice of medicine/dentistry in general overseas, b) you yourself have claimed that there is no good way to measure something like this (but haven't provided any data or logic to support why the study you keep quoting is better than all of the others, aside from the fact that it supports your argument) or c) you seem to place a lot of stock in signal datapoints. All of these suggest that you have the analytical skills of a paper bag.

Kudos to you on getting into medical school. Hopefully you will be humbled by the inevitable smackdowns that will likely be delivered frequently when you make ridiculous statements like above.

 

[GoldTigerPirate]

"you have the analytical skills of a paper bag." - 6897Round2

Hands down one of the best SDN insults I have seen! 👍👍