Denver

[ErGirl]

I was told that in order to get into Denver, you pretty much have to have rotated there. Anyone know if this is true? Would it be a waste to interview at Denver if I haven't rotated there?
Thanks!!!

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[Hawkeye Kid]

I interviewed there yesterday and was one of three (I think) that was not currently rotating at DG. Most, if not all, classes are made up primarily of residents that rotated there as students, though there are exceptions. I had heard the same rumors about the program, but figured it was too good of a program to not give myself a shot at. If nothing else you get to hang out in Denver for a day or two and meet some pretty well-known people.

On the topic of Denver rumors, I had heard that it was a very malignant program. The residents actually brought this up themselves and said they didn't think it was true, but that they definitely aren't a cush program and that they work more hours than most. I also didn't see anything that I considered malignant while visiting the department and none of the rotating students thought it was, either.

So, that's that, for what it's worth. Hope it helps...

 

[hakksar]

I was told that in order to get into Denver, you pretty much have to have rotated there. Anyone know if this is true? Would it be a waste to interview at Denver if I haven't rotated there?
Thanks!!!

From what Dr. Shockley (DG's former residency director) said last year at an EMIG event we had here at the University of Colorado this is definitely not true. He said that they rank people on a whole list of things from LOR's to Board Scores to Dean's Letter etc. If you get a score of either 16 or 16 and a half (cannot remember which) out of 20 you get an interview. Once you get an interview you are all on equal footing. The advantage of doing a rotation there is that the interviewer may know you a bit better, but if you wow them in the interview it will not matter. Take this with a grain of salt because I am only a 2nd year and a long way off . . . but that is the impression I got when he came and spoke.

 

[hakksar]

On the topic of Denver rumors, I had heard that it was a very malignant program. The residents actually brought this up themselves and said they didn't think it was true, but that they definitely aren't a cush program and that they work more hours than most. I also didn't see anything that I considered malignant while visiting the department and none of the rotating students thought it was, either.

Wow, that is a rumor I have not heard (as DG's EM program is well regarded here). They do work more than many other EM programs but it still isn't the worst in terms of number of hours of EM programs across the country. The faculty are popular with both students and residents from my interactions in the department. They also seem to have good relationships with other departments and the ancillary staff and nurses seem to work well in a team. Maybe I should be quiet though as I want to match their in a couple years . . . don't want to hype it anymore than it already is . . .

 

[Hawkeye Kid]

Wow, that is a rumor I have not heard (as DG's EM program is well regarded here). They do work more than many other EM programs but it still isn't the worst in terms of number of hours of EM programs across the country. The faculty are popular with both students and residents from my interactions in the department. They also seem to have good relationships with other departments and the ancillary staff and nurses seem to work well in a team. Maybe I should be quiet though as I want to match their in a couple years . . . don't want to hype it anymore than it already is . . .

I'm sure you don't hear that much there, but it is a pretty widespread rumor--enough so that the residents brought it up (ie. they know the rep exists). Like I said, after seeing the department function and talking with people from all levels, I think it's likely that the program is either no longer malignant or it never was (the distinction is essentially irrelevant in my mind). I now have no doubt that it's an amazing program (I don't think anyone ever questioned the training) and a place that I would be very happy.

 

[ERMudPhud]

Do you have to rotate there? No. I think less than half my class had rotated there. When we were making rank list decisions your performance on the rotation could really help (or hurt) you but plenty of people high on the rank list hadn't rotated.

The malignant rumor was old even when I was there and it appears it will probably never die. There have been significant changes in the faculty and program since I was there and there were other even more significant changes that were made between the time that rumor probably started and the time I arrived. So, its not really fair to judge the current program based on a rumor that might be more than 10-20 years old. Where there unhappy people when I was there? Sure but in any group of 40 or more residents in an intense program you will always find a few unhappy people. Most of the people I knew where glad they came and agreed they got a clinical education that was really unrivaled.

 

[ErGirl]

I interviewed there yesterday and was one of three (I think) that was not currently rotating at DG. Most, if not all, classes are made up primarily of residents that rotated there as students, though there are exceptions. I had heard the same rumors about the program, but figured it was too good of a program to not give myself a shot at. If nothing else you get to hang out in Denver for a day or two and meet some pretty well-known people.

On the topic of Denver rumors, I had heard that it was a very malignant program. The residents actually brought this up themselves and said they didn't think it was true, but that they definitely aren't a cush program and that they work more hours than most. I also didn't see anything that I considered malignant while visiting the department and none of the rotating students thought it was, either.

So, that's that, for what it's worth. Hope it helps...

How late in the day did your interview last? Could I make a 6pm flight?
Thanks!

 

[Hawkeye Kid]

ERChica--The interviews ended between 1-3pm, depending on....well, something, I guess. It was actually pretty random--you have four interviews and some people were done before others (me) had done their third interview. I left around 3, but I had visited the ED the day before so I didn't go on the tour (I have no idea when the tour ended, but I think they wanted prospies to see change of shift at 3 and then student/intern rounds afterwards). I had a 650 flight and had absolutely no problem making it, including a leisurely stop at Starbucks for some caffeine and note-taking. Hope this helps. Feel free to PM me if you have other ?s.

 

[thierryh]

I'm a resident at the old DHMCREM and I didn't rotate here. I think that rumor (which I had heard too and didn't expect to match here) probably springs from the massive amounts of people who do rotate here. Don't know exact numbers but probably 60-80, maybe more. One of the reasons for it is that it's an amazing med student rotation in that you are completely the same as an intern and have autonomy that I didn't come close to having in the two away rotations I did do. Another is that it's a great city in which to spend a month of your life. And I guess people get good letters of recommendation too.
So probably more people who rotate here match here (just like anywhere else I'd imagine) and probably more people rotate here than at most other programs. I'd guess eight-fourteenths of my class rotated here but that includes people from CU.
As far as malignancy goes, I often feel fatigued after a shift but never hazed. I definitely work harder while at work than the impression I get from any of my friends at other programs. I also feel when talking to them that I am getting better training. Just a feeling when we're talking about work, can't tell you exactly in what aspects I feel I'm being better prepared. For one I guess I think working hard breeds decision making ability and independence.

So come interview, rotated or not, stay and ski a few days especially in January (although we got 3 feet in the mountains last week, so I guess November is good too), and see what you think.
-TH

 

[bulgethetwine]

Well, I interviewed there last year and felt that the residents were GREAT and that the faculty were pretty good. So I'm not sure that the reputation of "malignant" is true. But, I do know that a lot of people are turned off by the set up of intern year, though. The rotations would certianly make it SEEM malignant. And a lot of the faculty that truly built the great reputation that preceded the malignancy tag are gone. This is a big concern among many who interviewed there in years gone past.

I also know of several individuals who were quite taken aback with their failure to match at Denver. Seemingly, they felt that there was some "implied" talk that didn't pan out. Which, to be fair, is all part of the game: Maybe every program does that sort of thing for, maybe their top 20 interviewees... so if Denver fills their 14 spots quickly during the match, then I suppose it is possible that while being genuine in their "implied" talk, some people still didn't match. Or, they are just playing the game a little more cut-throat than some other people....

Full disclosure: I ranked Denver in my top 5, but matched at my #1, so I don't know if I would have got a chance to go there even if I DID rank them higher. In the end, I found better fits for me elsewhere, and that's the point: take YOUR best fit.

Incidently, if you like Denver b/c the outdoor stuff, etc. check out Salt Lake City -- i was super impressed with their program, and ended up ranking it ahead of Denver even though it was new.


Good luck.