Depression in residency

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danny134r534

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've been going through a very difficult time and I have nobody to share the burden with. I came to the US for residency in hope of a better life, greater salary when I have finished training and better education. Since I moved here, I felt I made the biggest mistake of my life. I am from the UK and worked in the NHS for 4 years, I was tired of working in a very stretched health system and I wanted to pursue something different, I was born in the US but spent only 2 years of my life there and then moved to the UK and have lived there the past 30 years. I decided after a lot of work to leave the UK and match in IM residency here, leaving my family and friends back home. I was initially looking forward to a change and the first few months went well, with positive evals. During that time, my mom back home got diagnosed with cancer and I was allowed for 1 week to go back and see her. Since then, things have gotten worse and worse; my wife is in the UK and waiting for her visa to join me here (we have been waiting since last year and will still wait til who knows when) that has put a strain on us as its taking way longer than expected. My performance has begun to slip and despite seeking therapy I find myself lonely, isolated and depressed in the residency program with a huge culture shock despite coming from another western country. I am considering leaving and going back home, re-applying to training in the NHS despite the lower pay and longer time it will take me to finish. If I could find any way to stick out the 3 years, I'd appreciate any suggestions. I am 7 months into intern year and one of the core faculty attending have been giving me a very hard time, escalating even minor issues (like the one time I forgot to replete phosphorous levels on a 93 year old patient), he has influence in the program and I feel I am under a microscopy everyday he is highlighting issues with my notes, etc (none of the other attendings have raised concerns). Any advice would be appreciated

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've been going through a very difficult time and I have nobody to share the burden with. I came to the US for residency in hope of a better life, greater salary when I have finished training and better education. Since I moved here, I felt I made the biggest mistake of my life. I am from the UK and worked in the NHS for 4 years, I was tired of working in a very stretched health system and I wanted to pursue something different, I was born in the US but spent only 2 years of my life there and then moved to the UK and have lived there the past 30 years. I decided after a lot of work to leave the UK and match in IM residency here, leaving my family and friends back home. I was initially looking forward to a change and the first few months went well, with positive evals. During that time, my mom back home got diagnosed with cancer and I was allowed for 1 week to go back and see her. Since then, things have gotten worse and worse; my wife is in the UK and waiting for her visa to join me here (we have been waiting since last year and will still wait til who knows when) that has put a strain on us as its taking way longer than expected. My performance has begun to slip and despite seeking therapy I find myself lonely, isolated and depressed in the residency program with a huge culture shock despite coming from another western country. I am considering leaving and going back home, re-applying to training in the NHS despite the lower pay and longer time it will take me to finish. If I could find any way to stick out the 3 years, I'd appreciate any suggestions. I am 7 months into intern year and one of the core faculty attending have been giving me a very hard time, escalating even minor issues (like the one time I forgot to replete phosphorous levels on a 93 year old patient), he has influence in the program and I feel I am under a microscopy everyday he is highlighting issues with my notes, etc (none of the other attendings have raised concerns). Any advice would be appreciated

[why do I always get the notifications for these type of threads? I'm already cynical enough and have a bad whiskey habit.]

What's your goal Danny? If you want to practice medicine here in the US, I'd say tough it out, you only have 2.5 more years to go, you can make it go by fast. You'll achieve BE/BC, your license, you can set up shop and bring your whole family over. You're a US citizen by birth, so you should be able to file for your wife and mother (primary relatives) fairly easily. Best to hone in on that birthright citizenship now before POTUS cans it (I don't think that'll actually happen, the courts wont allow it).

Now, if you're goal is to go back to the UK, if you really don't want to be in the United States, then quit now and go home. Apply and train in the UK system.

It really just depends on what you want.
 
[why do I always get the notifications for these type of threads? I'm already cynical enough and have a bad whiskey habit.]

What's your goal Danny? If you want to practice medicine here in the US, I'd say tough it out, you only have 2.5 more years to go, you can make it go by fast. You'll achieve BE/BC, your license, you can set up shop and bring your whole family over. You're a US citizen by birth, so you should be able to file for your wife and mother (primary relatives) fairly easily. Best to hone in on that birthright citizenship now before POTUS cans it (I don't think that'll actually happen, the courts wont allow it).

Now, if you're goal is to go back to the UK, if you really don't want to be in the United States, then quit now and go home. Apply and train in the UK system.

It really just depends on what you want.
No further posts needed.

Except to say make the good choice and seek out therapy and pharmacological assistance if needed to get through. I was on an antidepressant during training and should have started it earlier in training than I did. I weaned off when I was done and when I was more in control of my own life. Absolutely nothing to be ashamed of, residency is tough in many ways.

/Thread.
 
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've been going through a very difficult time and I have nobody to share the burden with. I came to the US for residency in hope of a better life, greater salary when I have finished training and better education. Since I moved here, I felt I made the biggest mistake of my life. I am from the UK and worked in the NHS for 4 years, I was tired of working in a very stretched health system and I wanted to pursue something different, I was born in the US but spent only 2 years of my life there and then moved to the UK and have lived there the past 30 years. I decided after a lot of work to leave the UK and match in IM residency here, leaving my family and friends back home. I was initially looking forward to a change and the first few months went well, with positive evals. During that time, my mom back home got diagnosed with cancer and I was allowed for 1 week to go back and see her. Since then, things have gotten worse and worse; my wife is in the UK and waiting for her visa to join me here (we have been waiting since last year and will still wait til who knows when) that has put a strain on us as its taking way longer than expected. My performance has begun to slip and despite seeking therapy I find myself lonely, isolated and depressed in the residency program with a huge culture shock despite coming from another western country. I am considering leaving and going back home, re-applying to training in the NHS despite the lower pay and longer time it will take me to finish. If I could find any way to stick out the 3 years, I'd appreciate any suggestions. I am 7 months into intern year and one of the core faculty attending have been giving me a very hard time, escalating even minor issues (like the one time I forgot to replete phosphorous levels on a 93 year old patient), he has influence in the program and I feel I am under a microscopy everyday he is highlighting issues with my notes, etc (none of the other attendings have raised concerns). Any advice would be appreciated
Keep in mind intern year is one of the worst, and this isn't too far off the time when a lot of interns experience a big slump as they are usually pretty tired and worn down, and the lack of sun. It's hard to say how big a deal objectively and to your career the issues with this attending. Certainly emotionally it can be very difficult to deal with a difficult attending, even if it doesn't really put your progression through residency in any real danger. That's probably one of the hardest aspects of keeping morale up, feeling like you go to work and you're not doing a good job.

I hate to see you lose your progress and your ability to get to the other side which certainly sounds like it has the most flexibility for you in terms of where you live and practice in the future. You have so much going on it's very difficult for us to say what the right path is for you, it sounds like when you say "any way to stick out" that despite the challenges with culture shock, your mom, your wife, you're feeling alone... that you really want to stay.

1) Your mental health. Priority #1. If you want to talk more about that feel free to PM.
2) People put marriage or career in different orders of importance, but I'll put this here. Check in with her and make sure your marriage is doing OK with this, does she really think she can do this? I know personally the time difference here and the UK can make a relationship and phone calls extremely difficult, because that would be my top advice for maintaining a long distance relationship. There are other strategies of course here.
3) Do you have an attorney that is helping with the immigration stuff? I don't know much there, so I don't know if there is anything one can do to help speed things up. I suspect not but people don't always think to go to an attorney when one can help. Usually first hour consults are free or not very expensive.
4) At some point all interns feel alone. Depression can make this worse and harder to get out of, because it can keep you from reaching out or making connections. Finding a fellow intern to connect with can make such a huge difference here.

As someone said, you're already halfway through the year, you're already 7 months into the immigration process. I can't know for sure, for some people just being with their spouse again can flip things around totally. LDR and residency is about as tough as it gets emotionally. Not sure you can get any idea how much longer the process might take, that could give you some hope and help you tough it out.
 
Thanks for the replies. This particular attending I feel dislikes me. He has a reputation for being very demanding but it seems he has a particular clash with me. I keep getting told off for things like not updating problem lists, not requesting investigations that were not done in ED (that my senior missed too) and a one off occasion of not repeating lytes which admittedly I didn’t do but was on a very old patient that was going to be comfort at some point. Every time it’s accusatory if something’s missed and an attack in front of the others. I want to complain but don’t know what that would even achieve given his influence in the program. My first semi annual had no concerns
 
Thanks for the replies. This particular attending I feel dislikes me. He has a reputation for being very demanding but it seems he has a particular clash with me. I keep getting told off for things like not updating problem lists, not requesting investigations that were not done in ED (that my senior missed too) and a one off occasion of not repeating lytes which admittedly I didn’t do but was on a very old patient that was going to be comfort at some point. Every time it’s accusatory if something’s missed and an attack in front of the others. I want to complain but don’t know what that would even achieve given his influence in the program. My first semi annual had no concerns
You need to just ride these things out. All of the things mentioned are reasonable things to be corrected on. Updating problem lists will be important in your future for billing and reimbursement as well as for patient care. Missing parts of a workup is clearly something that should be pointed out by an attending. And a patient is not comfort care until they are comfort care, even DNR is not Do Not Treat, and electrolytes can be especially important in the elderly. It sounds like the attending may have an abrasive style of teaching and I’m sorry if this is exacerbating your mental health issues. We could all probably cite certain attendings with less than ideal teaching styles from our past. But the actual teaching points are valid. The point is to make you a better doctor. I would encourage you to try to learn from the teaching points even if the style in which they are presented is less than ideal. What we do requires being detail oriented even on days when we are upset or not feeling our best. Patients need us at our best, and pointing out these kinds of oversights is what an attending is supposed to do. Browbeating isn’t ok, but it sounds like this person’s personality is a known thing in the program. So the best option you have is to learn from it and get through and get your training done and dusted.
 
The issue is more the way he communicates rather than the teaching points. He will openly attack me verbally in front of the med student and my co intern. Even over every single minor issue, whenever we are rounding he will ask questions as learning points but his tone is very passive aggressive. He has already had a complaint a couple of weeks ago by my co intern and he was asked to apologise to him which he did. I have decided not make a complaint to the chiefs but will be mentioning it in the feedback form although I’m not sure if that will make things worse for me?
I want to emphasize that I personally have had this kind of attending in my training. I think what you’ve described is, as I’ve said, a deliberately abrasive teaching style.

A lot of this depends on how long this person has been there and he kind of leadership you have. It’s entirely possible reporting him could make things worse if he’s entrenched and has the support of leadership. It could also get better for others in the future if you report him. But it’s unlikely this person is going to magically change their behavior or suddenly get fired. So in general unless you feel driven to try to make sure this situation does not occur for others in the future, then your best bet is as previously stated. The absolute safest bet is to just get through.

He’s mean to you. I understand that as a resident already dealing with other things, this feels unbearable and it’s hard to see the other side of the relatively short tunnel you’re walking through. I almost quit my fellowship multiple times in the first few months and it was only a 2-year fellowship, but I was already a board-certified surgeon so I had something else to fall back on. But otherwise, I have been in your shoes. But the fact is that your time in residency is finite. If you want to train and eventually work in the US, you need this program. If you decide you don’t want to train and work in the US then you have options available to you that most US-only citizens don’t.

And of course continuing to engage in therapy and pharmacological assistance as needed.

I would avoid attempts to minimize your mistakes as you did in your previous post, it will not make things better. His approach may be hard to handle, and may be totally inappropriate even, but by your own description these are real mistakes you’ve made, not trumped up accusations.
 
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The issue is more the way he communicates rather than the teaching points. He will openly attack me verbally in front of the med student and my co intern. Even over every single minor issue, whenever we are rounding he will ask questions as learning points but his tone is very passive aggressive. He has already had a complaint a couple of weeks ago by my co intern and he was asked to apologise to him which he did. I have decided not make a complaint to the chiefs but will be mentioning it in the feedback form although I’m not sure if that will make things worse for me?
It sounds like your co-intern might be a good person to form a connection with. It helps so much when there is a witness to abuse to connect with. Just always be careful what you say, keep it professional, be mindful what things can sound like out of context, and remember that anyone can be a witness in court. Even without discussing this attending in detail, sounds like a person to connect with.

I would keep a very good record of what he is doing and how, but I would sit on it. In the future if you feel really bulletproof, he's still there, and mainly at that point you want to make things better for others, then I might drop it and report it. Sure it will be wondered why you sat on it, but it's obvious when you point out the power differential. How much will it do? Hard to say. But when you are dealing with any malignancy, your safety in the program has to take first priority. Sadly that means we tend to take a ton of abuse in the system. I applaud the folks that want to be a hero, but I can't recommend it.

Or you sit on it, and if he tries to nuke you, you report it then. There would be reasons to do that which is why I say this.

One way to make a record is you write up incidents, time, dates, exact quotes, sign and date, seal in an envelope, mail it to yourself and do not open it (this gives it a postmark and unimpeachable date of a contemporaneous note-taking). Keep a separate copy. This was legal advice I once received. Even if it goes nowhere, it can really help you smile and nod just knowing you're keeping tabs on his behavior. But don't act.

I probably wouldn't put it in the feedback. Or, I'm thinking I would put it in the most inoffensive terms possible. "Work on timing and context of constructive feedback." That's as far as I would go and I don't know I'd do it. Sounds like the chiefs and the other intern have it in as well of a hand as they can. Stay out of it. Let other people fight the battles they want.

I'd like to think that you recognize the value of the teaching points and the fact you recognize he has a point is why it's stinging so much that he's additionally using it as a way to humiliate you. I was once taught that it's impossible to make someone feel humiliated if the thing you are doing they don't intrinsically find humiliating. Humiliation is a very personal thing that way. That tells me you don't like to make mistakes, and that can be a good thing. Just don't let it keep you from acknowledging and owning your mistakes.

It doesn't sound like you are disagreeing with his points, but yes, some people don't know how to be kind, and I think it is more his treatment of you than the medical issues at hand that you are objecting to. If so, that's fair.

Work really hard not to get defensive or offer explanations, like the person about to be comfort care. I understand why in context that isn't the biggest mistake, but it is one.

Someone looking to rake you over coals over every little mistake, is just going to take any little issue with your response that they can. Truly, the response that will look the best and most mature to outside observers, is not to offer any explanation here. Just say that you recognize it was an oversight and and thank you pointing it out you will work to do better next time. It's difficult for someone to really say much to that. One would think trying to put the mistakes in context might get you a break or make you look less bad to others, but it doesn't work and it's not how this works.

Keep in mind that if you handle this maturely, without defensiveness, and give him less to go after you with, it may actually piss him off more and he may actually come at you harder. Ultimately, you can't let anything he says to you be an arbiter of your behavior and feelings, beyond correcting medical errors or other professional issues.

Some of these people genuinely have personality disorders or traits. I would hope if this was a patient you could keep it in perspective and just adjust to be impersonal and professional in response. So you may have to separate your feelings from the disease so to speak. Basically, don't take it too personally. Not everyone is going to like you and that's really not your problem if you are acting professionally. Remember that.

These are just my thoughts and ways I tried to manage my own feelings and responses to toxic people. I am aware it can both be true you've made mistakes and have room to improve, and people are dinguses. Of course I don't know you or him. But keep this in mind anyway.
 
February of intern year will involve major depression by default
Combine that with homesickness and culture shock
The worst part is being far from your family. I mean, long distance with wife for a YEAR? Ouch. And mom with cancer? I'm so sorry.
The hard truth is you have signed up for torture/indentured servitude, alone, very far from home. (You could also look at it as SERVICE).

F that attending, they don't have as much influence as it appears, they won't even be a footnote in your life story in just a few yrs. Just keep plugging along and try not to take on that person's misery. You already have enough anyway.

If you quit and return to UK, you will be justified in doing so. But understand that staying in the US and finishing intern year is not going to be easy, and you should expect it to be hard. If the end goal (practicing in the US) is high priority for you, you'll have to tough it out.

I recommend forcing yourself out to socialize. Tell your wife you need to make some friends. Go to activities where you can meet people. Yoga class, dance class, concerts, bars, shows, etc. You have to make an effort to build a life here if you are going to stay.

EDIT: also, spring is coming. You need sunlight, exercise, and healthy foods. You have to take care of yourself (hard during intern year, I know)
 
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