Desperate for Advice

[siriusnape]

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Figured I would post on here and see if I can get some advice. I did horrible in udergrad (GPA less than 3.0). I had a lot of personal issues I dealt with (abusive bf first year, medical problems my senior year, and then had to work basically full time). Not trying to use those as excuses and I shouldn't have let those get in the way, especially with having to work, I should've decreased my class load or done something different obviously looking back. But that's besides the point because obviously I can't change what happened.
I have LOTS of experience from various vet hospitals ranging from GP, emergency, and specialty (orthopedic and dermatology). It's my GPA that has prevented me from getting into any school. I applied a few years ago and that was the response I received from the schools was low GPA. I am trying to go back to school and retake courses and take new ones (was missing a couple pre-reqs at other schools I did not apply to).

The problem I'm running into is 1) my GPA is so low, people have told me to just give up because I will never get into grad school 2) what are the thoughts on community college? A friend of mine did several pre-reqs (ochem, phys, etc.) at a community college recently and did not get into any vet school, but then another person I know did something similar and did get in to Davis 2 years ago.

Also another issue is in California, schools are so impacted it's hard to even get into any classes at the community colleges even so trying to find ways to boost my GPA have been difficult.

What are some things I can do to get into vet school? I'm willing to try to get into a post-bac program, but those almost all require min 3.0 gpa. I also graduated with a B.S. in Biology so the career changer post-bac programs I do not qualify for. I know it's a uphill battle, but I have worked in the vet field for last 5 years now. I am in a much more stable position right now and am determined to become a doctor one day. I can't see myself doing anything else in life. I get upset knowing I probably have just screwed up the rest of my life, but I don't know what else to do.

Has anyone else been in this type of situation and gone off to vet school? Any advice would be great. Thank you.

 

[EngrSC]

I'm a career-changer and a CA resident. Yes, our school system is pretty whacko but you can get any class you need as long as you're persistent (there's a method to my madness). I've been taking my chemistries and intro biologies at a community college because it is substantially less expensive. So far I've only taken 1 upper division course at the university near me and the professor let me in as an open enrollment student even though there was a waitlist. Who knows, maybe he took pity on me after I explained why I needed the class.

There are a couple schools that do grade forgiveness (Mizzou I think?) and a few that focus heavily on last 45 and science GPAs (Minnesota and I think KSU or LSU??).

Nothing's impossible. There have been multiple threads on low GPA - try using the search function in the top right 😉

 

[derwent2052]

Heya,

I had a low undergrad GPA as well. I'm a career-changer, I studied psych in undergrad though I took science courses too, some I did ok in (yay bio!) some I did poorly in (physics... o god why ;_; ), and overall had a poor gpa. Some improvement in my final year but overall not great.
I graduated back in '09, went back to a CC in '12 and began doing postbacc classes (orgo, genetics, others). I made sure to work really hard to rock every class I took in postbacc to make sure I maintained a 4.0 to show that I was, a. more focussed than i was in undergrad, b. had fixed whatever study skills, work/study balance, or whatever else that had messed me up in undergrad, and c. show an upward grade trend. I ended up doing a brief explanation of my grade history in my PS and emphasised that I was working full-time while doing my postbacc classes. I also studied hard for my GRE to make sure to earn a good grade in that.

I didn't qualify for career changer postbacc programmes either (took enough science in undergrad to mess that up) so I just ended up taking whatever classes I needed at the CC. There are some postbacc programmes where I live that are 'gpa raisers' type things, I have no idea if that's available in CA though, and I don't know what science class options they have if you still need more prereqs. Definitely reach out to people at the institution too; I had to be very persistent and explain my situation to a lot of people in order to get into some of the classes I needed. Also, if CA's CCs are anything like those where I live, be prepared for a lot of annoying bureacracy >_<

I think the results from my postbacc classes, plus GRE, plus a good amount of experience hours helped me a lot. I happily got in this year \o/ but, before I received my acceptance, I had been preparing to do another year of postbacc classes and another app cycle. I didn't apply as smartly as I could have - as EngrSC mentioned, and is mentioned in other posts on similar topics, finding schools that do grade forgiveness, focus on last 45, etc, can be a big help in improving your chances. Definitely research which schools to apply to, and if you're getting the ball rolling on classes now, you can also focus on getting the right classes for the schools you ultimately apply to. Take advantage of any help you can get as well, especially things like PS reviews and overall polish on your app.

It's a tough road with a lot of hard work and no guarantees, but it is possible.

 

[StartingoverVet]

The UC-extension system is pretty good route as well (if a little more expensive).
UC-Berkeley extension in the North, and UCLA extension in the South have huge offerings, and almost all the pre-reqs you need.

You can definitely get in with a lower GPA you just need to demonstrate you can handle it. Retaking these classes is a good start.

 

[onisteverina]

I did a post bacc through the UC Berkeley Extension.. you do have to have a 3.0 gpa, but I heard of people starting by just taking classes through the extension and then "transferring" in the post bacc program if they are able to get their grades up.. The only real benefit was that you have priority enrollment (at the location I was at... that didn't much matter because there was always room), have access to advising (also didn't really make a difference because they are more familiar with pre-med.. not pre-vet. Although they overlap a lot.. it still isn't that reassuring when your advisor has only helped a handful of pre-vets before you), and they will write you a composite letter (this didn't really help me that much either... extension refers to their letter as a composite letter, but by VMCAS definitions it is a committee letter... a lot of the schools that I applied to didn't accept committee letters for whatever reason... I vaguely remember it having to do with how VMCAS has to upload the letters).

What I'm getting at is that you can take the classes through extension without having to fight for spots with undergrads without being in the post bacc program.. definitely costs waaaaayyyyy more than community college though, so I would take as many at a CC as possible and take the upper divisions through extension.

Edit.. I also thought that the extension professors were very open to writing letters of rec which is nice.. the classes are also pretty small so they tend to get to know you more than a professor in a larger lecture. Everyone in those classes is looking to go to med/vet/grad school in general so you are with a pretty serious/studious group of people...which I liked.

 

[StartingoverVet]

I did a post bacc through the UC Berkeley Extension.. you do have to have a 3.0 gpa, but I heard of people starting by just taking classes through the extension and then "transferring" in the post bacc program if they are able to get their grades up.. The only real benefit was that you have priority enrollment (at the location I was at... that didn't much matter because there was always room), have access to advising (also didn't really make a difference because they are more familiar with pre-med.. not pre-vet. Although they overlap a lot.. it still isn't that reassuring when your advisor has only helped a handful of pre-vets before you), and they will write you a composite letter (this didn't really help me that much either... extension refers to their letter as a composite letter, but by VMCAS definitions it is a committee letter... a lot of the schools that I applied to didn't accept committee letters for whatever reason... I vaguely remember it having to do with how VMCAS has to upload the letters).

What I'm getting at is that you can take the classes through extension without having to fight for spots with undergrads without being in the post bacc program.. definitely costs waaaaayyyyy more than community college though, so I would take as many at a CC as possible and take the upper divisions through extension.

Edit.. I also thought that the extension professors were very open to writing letters of rec which is nice.. the classes are also pretty small so they tend to get to know you more than a professor in a larger lecture. Everyone in those classes is looking to go to med/vet/grad school in general so you are with a pretty serious/studious group of people...which I liked.

UCLA has a "certificate" program but it is really no better than taking individual classes, and enrollment is not a problem. There was never a class I couldn't get into in extension ...
(the only problem for pre-reqs was taking chem labs which aren't offered, and you can only get in to regular UCLA classes in the summer through the waiting list - which always works. and comp animal anatomy which is only offered once a year in regular UCLA classes which I never took).

 

[yogapony]

Look into grad programs that are associated with vet schools. I would suggest taking some classes at a CC or through UC Extension to get you INTO said programs first. Rock the GRE. And look outside of CA.

 

[siriusnape]

Thanks so much for your guys's advice and opinion! It's helpful to hear that others who have made it into vet school were in similar situations. I know it's not the norm for people to get in on the first try, but it's been disheartening when all my friends in college got in on their first try and then when asking for advice at the university I went to teachers and advisers said to just give up. Thought they were the ones to be there to help you no matter what, but guess not.... I am looking at taking classes at a local CC starting fall 2014 and I have looked at the UC Berkeley extension program, but like what you guys have said it is very expensive. I have seen some extension programs have online classes. Do you guys know if vet schools look down on those? I would imagine so since it's better to always do a class in person rather online, but just curious if anyone has run into that situation before. Was looking at getting a second bachelor's degree, but the 4 year universities in northern california near me are not accepting second bachelor's degrees because they're already impacted. Hope I'm on the right path taking classes at the CC and I am going to study my butt off and work really hard and get to know the prof's there as well. The veterinarian I work for right now is also a professor at Washington State University so hopefully that would be a helpful letter of rec in the future.

 

[LetItSnow]

I went to teachers and advisers said to just give up. Thought they were the ones to be there to help you no matter what, but guess not....

I think they are there to give you their honest evaluation .... It's not their fault your grades are what they are. If they honestly think/thought you don't have much of a chance, they ARE helping you by giving their honest opinion. If you want random cheerleading, go drinking with friends.

That said, I had somewhere around a 2.0 GPA (and hadn't, obviously, finished my bachelor's degree). I went back, did a full degree, did my pre-reqs at a CC -- making damn sure to get all A's -- and was able to get in, and am now a few months into my last year. I was not one of those 'thousands of hours of experience' people, so you have that advantage. It's possible you need to adjust your expectations and recognize it may just take you longer because of your prior performance; in the end, it doesn't matter much why stuff happened ... the schools need to know that you'll succeed, and they can't just take your word for it.

Nothing wrong with asking people here if vet schools 'look down' on certain programs, but I think you would do better to go to the only people that matter: call admissions directors at schools you are interested in and ask them point blank. There's nothing wrong with saying "I will do whatever it takes. What will it take?"

And yes, you should MAKE CERTAIN you cultivate that relationship with the WSU vet. Work your butt off there. Take initiative. Go above and beyond. Show up early and stay late. Don't be obnoxious about it, but look for ways to improve processes in the clinic. That reference could easily be the strongest on your application. Make sure it is. Especially if you plan to apply to WSU.

G'luck. I'm sure it's frustrating to be where you're at. But if you're serious about vet school, I'm sure there is a way.

 

[siriusnape]

I think they are there to give you their honest evaluation .... It's not their fault your grades are what they are. If they honestly think/thought you don't have much of a chance, they ARE helping you by giving their honest opinion. If you want random cheerleading, go drinking with friends.

That said, I had somewhere around a 2.0 GPA (and hadn't, obviously, finished my bachelor's degree). I went back, did a full degree, did my pre-reqs at a CC -- making damn sure to get all A's -- and was able to get in, and am now a few months into my last year. I was not one of those 'thousands of hours of experience' people, so you have that advantage. It's possible you need to adjust your expectations and recognize it may just take you longer because of your prior performance; in the end, it doesn't matter much why stuff happened ... the schools need to know that you'll succeed, and they can't just take your word for it.

Nothing wrong with asking people here if vet schools 'look down' on certain programs, but I think you would do better to go to the only people that matter: call admissions directors at schools you are interested in and ask them point blank. There's nothing wrong with saying "I will do whatever it takes. What will it take?"

And yes, you should MAKE CERTAIN you cultivate that relationship with the WSU vet. Work your butt off there. Take initiative. Go above and beyond. Show up early and stay late. Don't be obnoxious about it, but look for ways to improve processes in the clinic. That reference could easily be the strongest on your application. Make sure it is. Especially if you plan to apply to WSU.

G'luck. I'm sure it's frustrating to be where you're at. But if you're serious about vet school, I'm sure there is a way.

Oh I definitely don't have blinders up disenchanting reality that's for sure. I'm not thinking o poor me I should just be accepted in because I want to. I know they were being honest, but if it truly someone's dream I feel they can give some advice and try to help somewhat. Give advice like you are all giving. Not everyone gets in on their first try nor is everyone a perfect straight A student and I think that's why they say those things is they just deal with the ones that do fit the criteria like that. People make mistakes, have personal issues, etc that caused them to fall back, but I feel with enough determination and drive and you succeed thereafter then should go for your dream. There are people with similar situations as myself and I feel advisers and professors should familiarize themselves with other situations than the perfect 4.0 student who gets in on their first try. I definitely am committed. I definitely am going to take advantage of the fact my boss is also a professor at WSU.

 

[DVMDream]

Oh I definitely don't have blinders up disenchanting reality that's for sure. I'm not thinking o poor me I should just be accepted in because I want to. I know they were being honest, but if it truly someone's dream I feel they can give some advice and try to help somewhat. Give advice like you are all giving. Not everyone gets in on their first try nor is everyone a perfect straight A student and I think that's why they say those things is they just deal with the ones that do fit the criteria like that. People make mistakes, have personal issues, etc that caused them to fall back, but I feel with enough determination and drive and you succeed thereafter then should go for your dream. There are people with similar situations as myself and I feel advisers and professors should familiarize themselves with other situations than the perfect 4.0 student who gets in on their first try. I definitely am committed. I definitely am going to take advantage of the fact my boss is also a professor at WSU.

You have to remember that some teachers/advisers don't really even understand or know the entire process of applying to vet school. None of mine did. We had the pre-health professions advisers but they knew nothing about vet school admissions, acceptances, etc. They knew med school stuff really well, but anything else and they just had no idea. So they might be talking and advising based upon their experiences with medical school admissions which is completely different.

Their job is to be realistic with you though and while it is possible to turn things around, get good grades, have the drive and determination from here on out and be accepted to vet school, the chances of the acceptance actually happening is much less than if you had done that the first time around. Teachers and advisers are better off to be realistic rather than rose-coloured glasses with students. Their job isn't to "help you no matter what" they are there to ADVISE you (not hold your hand), even if that advice may not be something you want to hear. Maybe they didn't feel you realized how much work it would be? Maybe they don't really understand vet school applications? Maybe they don't realize that some vet schools offer grade forgiveness programs? Without asking point blank why they were advising you a specific way, you will never know their thought process or why they recommended what they did.

 

[pp9]

I wouldn't say you should give up by any means. Consider retaking your pre-reqs at a community college and acing them. Then only apply to schools that take the most recent grades instead of average all of your course attempts. It will be a bit of a financial burden, but you're already going to have that issue once you get in. If it makes you feel any better, I have a 3.7 and was told I need to bring my grades up by a school. You just have to do some research and find the school that you will fit with. Keep in mind that some schools will tell you they prefer courses from a 4-year university over community college courses (or it's on their website). I think fewer schools are keeping that mindset though due to the trend of starting at a CC and then transferring.

 

[Fly Racing]

Are you considering any of the international schools? I think some are even still accepting for this fall, since it sounds like you have finished all your prerequisites. I know some of the international schools can be mixed with a can of worms by some on forums, but I thought I would throw it out there, since it's still a completely legitimate way to become a DVM.

 

[SMUVETMED2017]

Hello! Have you considered any of the Caribbean schools? I currently go to St. Matthews School of Vet Med and absolutely love it! I am a non traditional student much like you. I had a 3.4 GPA in undergrad which on vet school terms is not great, but I did work 40+ hours a week on top of shadowing and research. That being said SMU looks at the student as a whole. The professors here are amazing and take so much of their personal time to make sure that you are getting not only the right education to pass the boards, but also to help you achieve your own personal goals. Tuition is also extremely reasonable and Cayman is beautiful! Feel free to message me and I can answer any questions that you may have. =-)

https://www.stmatthews.edu/school-of-veterinary-medicine

 

[SamuraiPizzaCat88]

Heya,

I had a low undergrad GPA as well. I'm a career-changer, I studied psych in undergrad though I took science courses too, some I did ok in (yay bio!) some I did poorly in (physics... o god why ;_; ), and overall had a poor gpa. Some improvement in my final year but overall not great.
I graduated back in '09, went back to a CC in '12 and began doing postbacc classes (orgo, genetics, others). I made sure to work really hard to rock every class I took in postbacc to make sure I maintained a 4.0 to show that I was, a. more focussed than i was in undergrad, b. had fixed whatever study skills, work/study balance, or whatever else that had messed me up in undergrad, and c. show an upward grade trend. I ended up doing a brief explanation of my grade history in my PS and emphasised that I was working full-time while doing my postbacc classes. I also studied hard for my GRE to make sure to earn a good grade in that.

I didn't qualify for career changer postbacc programmes either (took enough science in undergrad to mess that up) so I just ended up taking whatever classes I needed at the CC. There are some postbacc programmes where I live that are 'gpa raisers' type things, I have no idea if that's available in CA though, and I don't know what science class options they have if you still need more prereqs. Definitely reach out to people at the institution too; I had to be very persistent and explain my situation to a lot of people in order to get into some of the classes I needed. Also, if CA's CCs are anything like those where I live, be prepared for a lot of annoying bureacracy >_<

I think the results from my postbacc classes, plus GRE, plus a good amount of experience hours helped me a lot. I happily got in this year \o/ but, before I received my acceptance, I had been preparing to do another year of postbacc classes and another app cycle. I didn't apply as smartly as I could have - as EngrSC mentioned, and is mentioned in other posts on similar topics, finding schools that do grade forgiveness, focus on last 45, etc, can be a big help in improving your chances. Definitely research which schools to apply to, and if you're getting the ball rolling on classes now, you can also focus on getting the right classes for the schools you ultimately apply to. Take advantage of any help you can get as well, especially things like PS reviews and overall polish on your app.

It's a tough road with a lot of hard work and no guarantees, but it is possible.

Hi! Your situation seems fairly similar to mine, (low undergrad, doing awesome in my post-bac) and I was wondering if you would share which schools you applied to, where you were granted interviews, and where you ended up getting accepted? Also, what kind of experience did you have on your application? I am thinking about applying this cycle, even though my chances are very unlikely. I've been hearing that I should take another year to improve my stats, but some other sdn users have advised me to research different schools because I might have a good chance in some of the ones that weigh the last 45 credits more heavily. If you could please share, that'd be great... Appreciate any feedback. 🙂

 

[Cyndia]

Going abroad (for either vet school or a post bac) is a great idea to think about. It will be expensive, but it could be a potential option for you if you think it's something you would enjoy doing. I had a pretty poor undergrad GPA, but I did a one year masters at the RVC which I worked my butt off in and it really helped me out. My last 45 credits ended up really high, and it really helped my application since it showed the schools I was actually capable of working hard and doing well in a tough program. When I applied afterwards, I was accepted to UF as well as a couple of european schools. I also really loved my time abroad, it was an amazing experience.

Another thing to consider with the European schools is that you could also apply to a direct entry program. Pretty much all of the Irish/UK AVMA accredited programs (RVC, Edinburgh, Glasgow, and UCD) have both five year (direct entry) and four year (graduate entry) vet courses. The four year graduate entry programs are for students who have completed another degree and have the necessary prerequisites - it's what VMCAS applies for. The five year is a direct entry program from high school, since in Europe the system is set up where you go straight into veterinary school from high school. You could apply for one of these programs, and you might have a better chance of being accepted, depending on how the rest of your application is. They are still competitive to get into, particularly the graduate entry programs, but I think fewer north american students tend to apply abroad so you'll have a better chance. Usually if you submit an application to these schools, they'll automatically consider you for the four year course first, and then the five year course if you're not accepted into the four year. You can apply directly to the schools, outside of VMCAS, so check the websites. The requirements are a bit different, but they often have much later deadlines for accepting applications than the VMCAS deadline is and the application fees are insanely cheaper. If you decide to try applying though, definitely do your research on the schools first to see if you think you'd be happy there. It can be quite a bit different from the US, so it isn't something you should do spontaneously, but if you look into and think you'd like it, it's certainly an option to consider!

There is also the caribbean schools - I don't have much experience with them so you may want to search the forum for information on that or ask one of the SDN'ers that are there, but they are also perfectly legitimate places to earn a DVM. The one thing to be leery of is that you really want to go to an AVMA accredited program, because otherwise you have to jump through a LOT of hoops to get licensed, and it's extremely tough and may not happen. Ross and SGU are both accredited, so you should look into those, I think St. Matthews currently isn't so I'd really read into it before you apply. I'm sure it's still a great school, but again, if you go to a non accredited school you could end up really struggling to get licensed later after spending all that money in school, so it's usually best to just go to an accredited one (since then you just have to pass the NAVLE to get licensed).

Oh and there are schools in NZ (Massey) and Australia (Murdoch, Melbourne, Sydney, and Queensland). I don't know much about them either, but they're all accredited.

 

[SMUVETMED2017]

All of Cyndia's suggestions here are great =-). As far as SMU goes they are listed with the AVMA so getting a license is a bit more of a process as you have to take one additional test. You do though sit the same NAVLE as everyone else. Another option would be to go to Caribbean school for year then try to transfer back to the states. That was actually my original plan, but I am doing really well at SMU and love the education I am getting so I do not see a reason to switch. SMU would be the cheapest option to do this, but I know plenty of students from all of the Caribbean schools that have been very successful taking that route.

 

[LdT]

I also had a terrible undergrad GPA, but I redid my pre-reqs and I got accepted for the class of 2018. So, not impossible, but you'll have to jump lots of hurdles and work really hard. Just do it! You'll always regret not following your dream, and even if it does not work out, you should give it your best shot! Good luck!

 

[allieh8607]

Another option would be to go to Caribbean school for year then try to transfer back to the states. That was actually my original plan, but I am doing really well at SMU and love the education I am getting so I do not see a reason to switch. SMU would be the cheapest option to do this, but I know plenty of students from all of the Caribbean schools that have been very successful taking that route.

Going to a Caribbean school with the "plan" being to transfer is a bad idea in my opinion. Moving to a new country is a big lifestyle change and the option to transfer is not a guaranteed one so if you're coming to a Caribbean school you should plan to be there the entire time and make sure you're ok with that reality. Being able to transfer out is not the norm, yes I know people that have been able to do it, but that should never be the reason you commit to a Caribbean school. Just my two cents.