Other OT-Related Information Desperate for answers: MSOT/MOT vs entry-level OTD vs post-professional OTD

[OTmomma]

I realize this topic has come up more than once on this forum, but despite reading every thread and scouring the internet for information, I'm still having a difficult time understanding the difference between these three levels (masters, entry-level OTD, professional OTD) -- particularly with regard to career outcomes. I've even talked to the OTs I've shadowed and the admissions personnel at the programs I'm interested in and still can't seem to wrap my head around it! Can anyone enlighten me? Preferably folks who have information that isn't purely anecdotal? Although I value opinions, I'm about to make a decision that will cost me at least 50k, so it's not one I'm taking lightly! Plus I'm a career changer so I'm trying my best to "get it right" this time

About me: I'll be 35 when I begin school in the fall of 2017, I'm married and I have 2 young children. I'd like to be a clinician, but I am also interested in teaching and could see myself enjoying research if I come across a topic or issue that interests me/would help the field. I don't see myself pursuing a PhD (although never say never!), so right now I'm just looking to pick a path that will allow me to practice and have the option to teach/participate in research if the spirit moves me. Oh, I should also say that I wouldn't mind being in a position of leadership at some point in my career. It's this last point that has me leaning towards the professional-OTD, but if the entry-level degrees can get me there once I have some experience under my belt, I'd be fine going that route for the sake of cost.

Again, I'm mostly confused with regard to career outcomes. From what I've gleaned on here, the entry-level OTD is basically a masters with an extra year devoted to a doctoral project. Employers don't care that you have it, and it doesn't mean higher pay, but you get to say you have a "doctorate" (which idk - makes you sound cool? Trust me, I'd love to say it but not if it means an extra 25-50k in tuition for the same career outcome!). Is this more or less correct? And then there's the post-professional OTD for practicing OTs or folks who want to get it done right away after finishing their masters. This seems like it takes you further in terms of what you can do in the field, but I've also heard you can teach and do research with the entry-level degrees, which is why I finally decided to make this post: every time I think I understand the different outcomes, I read something that makes me scratch my head! So I'm desperate for answers/advice/clarification -- anything that can help me make a wise decision.

Thank you in advance!

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[BeOT]

Professional OTD is for current OTs (those that already have a bachelors or masters in OT) pursuing a doctorate so it sounds like that wouldn't apply to you. Entry-level OTD and entry-level masters are for someone who has no experience as an OT. There's a lot of debate on what people should go for - OTD or Masters. Just to give you my perspective if it helps, I applied to several masters and OTD programs not knowing what I wanted and I ended up choosing the cheapest program and least time consuming program so I went with a Masters program. I am also going back to school, so this is my second career (I'll be 30 when I start) so I just want to get done and start making money with the least amount of debt and stress on my family as possible. The school I chose has a good reputation with past and current OT students and high passing rate for the NBCOT and is a masters program. Again, everyone is different but for me I will pursue OTD later if I ever want to. From what I understand, a lot of the post professional OTD programs can be completed online, in a year, and you are still able to work. I also think that I would like some experience in the field before I commit to OTD because if I choose to pursue an OTD later I feel like I will have a better understanding of what area of OT I'm interested in and I'll get more out of my OTD education. I want to have a good experience in OT school but I don't want to put myself in crazy debt and put a huge strain on my family now and for 10-15 years in the future trying to pay off loans if I don't have to. Hope any of this helps!

As far as career opportunities, you won't get paid more as a clinician (currently or in the foreseeable future) with an OTD than someone with just a masters. You will however (supposedly, although I am skeptical) be considered more often for managerial level positions such as Director of Rehab and similar positions. From the schools I interviewed at that have an OTD, the biggest difference in getting that extra year is that you learn more of the business side of things and get some extra fieldwork experience. If you want to teach, you could probably be an adjunct, or part-time professor at some schools with an OTD but if you are serious about academia and research at one of the better institutions, you would really need a PhD.

Let me know if this all makes sense!

 

[OTmomma]

Thank you for your reply @BeOT ! It does make sense and helps immensely.

I think the main source of my confusion stems from the fact that OTD appears to be used interchangeably even though it represents two different things: entry-level and post-professional. For instance, I'll be reading posts in which people are arguing for or against the OTD, but what if one person is referring to the entry level degree and the other to post professional? (Which actually seems to be the case in many discussions!) The whole argument becomes null and void (unless the participants are, in fact, discussing the same thing)! So reading people's comments that the OTD doesn't benefit you or set you apart from someone with a master's is all fine and good if they're referring to the ENTRY-LEVEL OTD, but if the program is truly post-professional then it DOES in fact set you apart/afford opportunities to advance. Am I finally correct in my understanding of this?!

As for being able to teach, I decided to skim the bios of faculty members at various schools and it appears to run the gamut - adjunct/clinical instructors seem to have their masters or OTD (I'm assuming post-professional), and full time professors seem to have their PhD and sometimes just the OTD.

Anyways, I basically wish some distinction was being made between the entry level OTD (now that more and more schools are offering it) and the post professional OTD instead of calling them by the same name. It really makes trying to understand it all very difficult, and heaven help us all if/when the decision is made to transition all programs to entry-level OTD - I imagine those with advanced OTD degrees will definitely want there to be a difference in the letters after their name! "POTD", perhaps?

 

[BeOT]

Thank you for your reply @BeOT ! It does make sense and helps immensely. I'm definitely leaning towards the quickest/cheapest option for similar reasons, but right now my options are a really expensive entry-level OTD program close to home or uprooting my family for a 2 year MOT program (which I'd be fine with, but my husband is less than thrilled about!). Hopefully the two local options that offer the master's will send me good news in 2017 - then this whole debate will be moot (aside from wondering if I should go for the professional OTD right away or wait)!

I think the main source of my confusion stems from the fact that OTD appears to be used interchangeably even though it represents two different things: entry-level and post-professional. For instance, I'll be reading posts in which people are arguing for or against the OTD, but what if one person is referring to the entry level degree and the other to post professional? (Which actually seems to be the case in many discussions!) The whole argument becomes null and void (unless the participants are, in fact, discussing the same thing)! So reading people's comments that the OTD doesn't benefit you or set you apart from someone with a master's is all fine and good if they're referring to the ENTRY-LEVEL OTD, but if the program is truly post-professional then it DOES in fact set you apart/afford opportunities to advance. Am I finally correct in my understanding of this?!

As for being able to teach, I decided to skim the bios of faculty members at various schools and it appears to run the gamut - adjunct/clinical instructors seem to have their masters or OTD (I'm assuming post-professional), and full time professors seem to have their PhD and sometimes just the OTD.

Anyways, I basically wish some distinction was being made between the entry level OTD (now that more and more schools are offering it) and the post professional OTD instead of calling them by the same name. It really makes trying to understand it all very difficult, and heaven help us all if/when the decision is made to transition all programs to entry-level OTD - I imagine those with advanced OTD degrees will definitely want there to be a difference in the letters after their name! "POTD", perhaps?

Post professional OTD and entry-level OTD are essentially the same degree. Whenever you graduate from any OTD program, you will have just an OTD at the end of your name. Entry-level OTD will take you from 0 to 100 (because you came in with no OT experience) and therefore lasts longer to include what you would have learned in a traditional masters program as well and the post-professional OTD takes into account that you have some experience as an OT, have already received a bachelors or masters, and therefore is a shorter program to just include the OTD curriculum. Essentially though, either way you go - pursuing entry level OTD or wait till later and pursue a post professional OTD - you'll end up in the same place (education-wise) in the end. So just to be clear - no matter if you go for "entry level" or "post professional" you will have an OTD in the end. Those terms in front of OTD just indicate the level of experience you have going into the OTD program and therefore the curriculum and time required reflects that level of experience.

 

[OTmomma]

Post professional OTD and entry-level OTD are essentially the same degree. Whenever you graduate from any OTD program, you will have just an OTD at the end of your name. Entry-level OTD will take you from 0 to 100 (because you came in with no OT experience) and therefore lasts longer to include what you would have learned in a traditional masters program as well and the post-professional OTD takes into account that you have some experience as an OT, have already received a bachelors or masters, and therefore is a shorter program to just include the OTD curriculum. Essentially though, either way you go - pursuing entry level OTD or wait till later and pursue a post professional OTD - you'll end up in the same place (education-wise) in the end. So just to be clear - no matter if you go for "entry level" or "post professional" you will have an OTD in the end. Those terms in front of OTD just indicate the level of experience you have going into the OTD program and therefore the curriculum and time required reflects that level of experience.

I think I get what you're saying. I'm going to continue to ponder this topic and hopefully I'll have a moment of clarity as I continue to educate myself Appreciate your insight @BeOT! Good luck in school!

 

[deleted704821]

The OTD won't get you a higher paying salary when you are first starting out. From what I have been told and what I understand, OTD is good for if you want to do research, become a clinical expert, or desire a career in academia.

With an OTD you typically pick a speciality to focus on. Either the program has a speciality or you are able to design your own. For example, Columbia just started a post-professional OTD in cognition.

MSOT and MOT are fairly similar but I've been told the coursework differs slightly between programs. At the end of the day, you become an OT as long as it is an accredited program.

The AOTA recently decided against requiring an entry level OTD because it does not yield higher salaries or better OTs and only creates more debt for students. So it is unlikely this debate will be revisited for a few years. I have chosen to postpone getting an OTD until I feel like it is necessary for me to achieve the position I desire.

There is also a difference between a clinical OTD and an OTD that may be research based so ensure you do your research on what the program is focsing on. Also, an entry-level level OTD may be full time versus a post professional OTD may be part time and designed to allow people to continue working.

I personally have decided to wait to pursue an OTD until I am further in my career and have a better idea of what area of practice I want to focus on. I am also waiting to see if it may be more beneficial to me to receive a second masters instead in an area such as public health. You still have time to see where your career will go. More OTD programs are being offered every year so it may be advantageous to wait until the programs are more available and better designed in the future so they best fit your needs.

 

[OTmomma]

Thanks for your reply @HawkeyeOT . Over the past few days I've continued to scour the internet for information and found some helpful documents on the AOTA website. I've also set up a phone appointment with the admissions director at the entry-level OTD program I've been admitted to. Hopefully she can clarify some things for me as well. One things for sure, it's definitely clearer to me now than when I wrote this post (and I wrote it in a moment of stress, which is why I think I felt so "desperate" lol).

One more question - before the switch from bachelor's to masters for entry level certification, was a master's in OT offered as a way to advance your career/knowledge akin to the OTD of today? And then did they introduce the OTD as a way to differentiate from the master's after 2007? Just curious.

 

[WillBeOT]

Hi! It seems like other members here did a great job of explaining this, but I'll give it a shot as well!

If you have a bachelors degree, masters degree, or any other degree (MD, PhD, etc) but NONE of your degrees are in OT and therefore you are NOT an OT, you cannot apply for a post-professional OTD. Your ONLY option is to apply to entry-level degree programs (entry level MSOT/MOT or entry level OTD) if you have a bachelors/masters/other degree that are NOT OT degrees.

Once you earn an entry level MSOT/MOT or entry level OTD degree, you are then eligible to practice as an OT, and therefore have earned your "professional" OT degree. Now that you've earned your professional OT degree, you can THEN apply for the POST-professional OTD, as you would be earning this degree AFTER (post) you have your professional degree. So after earning an entry level MSOT/MOT, you can THEN apply for a post-professional OTD program.

(If you've already earned an entry-level OTD, you would not then proceed to apply for a post-professional OTD program, as both the post professional OTD and entry-level OTDs are the same thing/exact same degree/exact same letters after your name. The only distinction is that the post-professional OTD is for already practicing OT's who have already earned their professional OT degree and therefore are OTs, whereas the entry-level OTD is for those who have NOT yet earned their professional OT degree, and either only hold a bachelors degree, or only hold degrees in fields OTHER than OT and therefore are NOT OTs).

 

[OTmomma]

Thank you for chiming in @WillBeOT !!!

I think my biggest issue was that I thought there was a difference between entry level OTD and post professional in terms of what you'd be "allowed" to do with the degree. I was under the impression that an OTD from a school that has a master's program with the option to tack on a third year was somehow superior to the entry level option?! But thanks to the responses here and some of my own research I'm finally wrapping my head around the ways they are the same/different. Thanks again!!!

 

[WillBeOT]

Thank you for chiming in @WillBeOT !!!

I think my biggest issue was that I thought there was a difference between entry level OTD and post professional in terms of what you'd be "allowed" to do with the degree. I was under the impression that an OTD from a school that has a master's program with the option to tack on a third year was somehow superior to the entry level option?! But thanks to the responses here and some of my own research I'm finally wrapping my head around the ways they are the same/different. Thanks again!!!

Great! Sounds like you are on the right track now! I'm currently in an entry-level OTD program. Definitely pros and cons to both the entry level OTD and masters. If you have any questions I'd be happy to help!

 

[occupational therapy]

Great! Sounds like you are on the right track now! I'm currently in an entry-level OTD program. Definitely pros and cons to both the entry level OTD and masters. If you have any questions I'd be happy to help!

Hi willbeot, would you mind sharing your decision making process that led you to pick an entry level OTD? Ive been accepted to entry level otd and masters programs, and I'm trying to understand the benefits of each. the masters is much more affordable, but the OTD gets the doctorate out of the way right away, which is nice. also, the OTD is attached to a med school so those facilities will be valuable, im thinking....what r ur thoughts? thank u!!!

 

[Bokonomy]

Hi willbeot, would you mind sharing your decision making process that led you to pick an entry level OTD? Ive been accepted to entry level otd and masters programs, and I'm trying to understand the benefits of each. the masters is much more affordable, but the OTD gets the doctorate out of the way right away, which is nice. also, the OTD is attached to a med school so those facilities will be valuable, im thinking....what r ur thoughts? thank u!!!

Assuming you're talking about Jeff, you can try emailing and switching into the Master's, but you must do it before the start of the program. I know 1 person who switched.

 

[occupational therapy]

Assuming you're talking about Jeff, you can try emailing and switching into the Master's, but you must do it before the start of the program. I know 1 person who switched.

haha, thanks. yes i was talking about tju, and rush, and just otd in general. not looking to switch, just seeking out different peoples perspectives on the degrees

 

[WillBeOT]

Hi willbeot, would you mind sharing your decision making process that led you to pick an entry level OTD? Ive been accepted to entry level otd and masters programs, and I'm trying to understand the benefits of each. the masters is much more affordable, but the OTD gets the doctorate out of the way right away, which is nice. also, the OTD is attached to a med school so those facilities will be valuable, im thinking....what r ur thoughts? thank u!!!

Congrats on your acceptances! So exciting and what a great feeling to have options! So every masters program is different and every OTD program is different, so some of my reasons for choosing the OTD program that I chose over other OTD programs and over Masters programs may not apply to your situation.

I chose the OTD for many reasons...first of all, the OTD program I am in is only 6 months longer than the masters program. For me, that was a no-brainer. Cost-wise, there's hardly a difference when you're talking only 6 months. Additionally many OTD programs give large scholarships, whereas masters don't as often, so the cost is really not too much more than a masters.

Also, if you are considering going back for a doctorate later, it's actually a lot more cost effective to just go for the OTD now instead. Many OTD programs can give you the cost breakdown of an entry level OTD vs getting a masters plus post professional OTD later, and you'll see getting the entry level OTD is cheaper in the end.

Time-wise, the entry level OTD programs tend to take only 6 months to 1 year longer than masters programs, whereas going back for a post-professional OTD later tends to take 2-3 years to do (as you will likely do it part time while working). I've read some posts on here where people plan on getting a masters now and then having their employer pay for a post professional OTD later, but I think realistically finding an employer that will pay for your OTD is slim to none. Especially as more and more people are graduating with OTDs now, they'll just get hired over the masters degree individuals, rather than the employer having to first pay for a masters degree individual to go get their OTD.

Another thing I love about the OTD is that it includes some management and leadership classes, so I feel like I'll be much better prepared for a management position one day, which is something I'd love to do. With the OTD we also get a solid 6 months to do some more specialized work--you can focus on research on a topic you're interested in, you can do clinical work in an area you like, you can do some advocacy and policy work, and there are some other options. In the masters programs, I found that this extra experience option is VERY limited--usually extra clinical experience or advocacy/policy work are not options, and you're limited to only a research option. Then the research you can do is limited to some kind of thesis/capstone project (shorter timeline than what you get in an OTD program) and the topic is chosen for you and you work in a group with classmates and also don't necessarily get to choose the classmates you work with or the professor who guides you. The combo of all these factors really turned me off... I prefer to have the freedom to choose clinical/research/other work, choose a topic I'm interested in, have an opportunity to do the work on my own if I want rather than as a group project with classmates, and chose the professor I want to work with.

As far as the OTD program being on a med campus, I don't think this matters much. While I'm sure it'll provide a great experience and a very smart, driven, supportive environment with many benefits, I think it's much more important to choose the specific program that's right for you--whether or not it's located within a med school. Personally I was accepted to schools both within med schools and others that aren't, and wound up choosing an OT program not associated with a med school in the end. My program has many amazing opportunities and is located within the rehab science school, so we are more with PT/SLP etc types of programs rather than the med school, which is actually probably better if anything! But again I don't think this makes much of a difference either way and there are many other factors that are MUCH more important to consider.

Last but not least...I thought the application process was borderline traumatic and definitely stressful, tedious, and costly! Therefore, the last thing I wanted to do was do this whole application process again...if you do the entry level OTD, it's one application process (now!) and you're done forever! Whereas if you choose a masters now, then you need to do applications all over again when you apply for your post professional OTD down the road (that means letters of rec again, personal statement, organizing your resume, paying app fees, perhaps more interviews, research and time to figure out which program, etc....). I couldn't imagine doing the application process again!

Sorry for the novel but I hope it was helpful! Feel free to reach out with more questions!

 

[occupationalguy]

I have yet to hear a single good argument for anyone getting an OTD as an entry level degree. "Only 6 more months of school." Go ahead and calculate how much that 6 months of unneeded education is going to cost you when you repay it over the next 30 years with interest. An extra 50k ish of debt, and calculate in the lost earnings too? Add to this that you won't make a cent more with it, and it won't help you get a job.

If you wish to be an academic, get into research, and get a PhD.

If you wish to be a clinician, get an MOT, spend as little money as you can to get it, and work in the field of your choice after you gain the appropriate level of experience.

 

[occupational therapy]

I have yet to hear a single good argument for anyone getting an OTD as an entry level degree. "Only 6 more months of school." Go ahead and calculate how much that 6 months of unneeded education is going to cost you when you repay it over the next 30 years with interest. An extra 50k ish of debt, and calculate in the lost earnings too? Add to this that you won't make a cent more with it, and it won't help you get a job.

If you wish to be an academic, get into research, and get a PhD.

If you wish to be a clinician, get an MOT, spend as little money as you can to get it, and work in the field of your choice after you gain the appropriate level of experience.

the post right before you was a good argument. maybe it's not right for you and that's fair, but you don't need to say that there isn't a good argument for it.

also, several schools are only offering the OTD entry level degree now.

 

[occupationalguy]

the post right before you was a good argument. maybe it's not right for you and that's fair, but you don't need to say that there isn't a good argument for it.

also, several schools are only offering the OTD entry level degree now.

I don't mean to sound rude, but I don't see a convincing argument in that post, and I'd ask you to go and find a clinician in our field who agrees with the points there: you won't find many.
"Management education" is useless for an entry level clinician; you have zero experience. If they want you to go down the management track the way to do it is to get the experience, get selected, and take CE's as they want you to. Putting the cart before the horse and paying tons of money in order to get management skills doesn't make much sense to me.

I'm aware that several schools have shifted to offering only an OTD. My advice? Apply elsewhere. Save your money. You're not making an extra money or going to get a job due to that extra money spent.

 

[occupational therapy]

I appreciate your advice, and I see the validity to your perspective, just as I see the validity of WillBeOT's point. I've been seeking out many people's opinions since before I even decided to pursue OT. I have met practicing OTs who have told me that they would choose the OTD, and I have met practicing OTs who have advised me to get a Master's degree, and I have met practicing OTs who have told me to go where I liked the faculty and the work being done....there are many opinions to be had, and all are valid.

 

[occupationalguy]

I appreciate your advice, and I see the validity to your perspective, just as I see the validity of WillBeOT's point. I've been seeking out many people's opinions since before I even decided to pursue OT. I have met practicing OTs who have told me that they would choose the OTD, and I have met practicing OTs who have advised me to get a Master's degree, and I have met practicing OTs who have told me to go where I liked the faculty and the work being done....there are many opinions to be had, and all are valid.

Sure. I can respect that. As an OT I can tell you my anecdotal experience: No one I have ever met has thought the OTD is a wise investment at this time. It's not an entry level degree, it's a management degree. I can't see justification for it if you aren't going to have increased job opportunities or pay. If you don't mind the extra debt load - and you like the program - sure, go for it.

We are reaching a point of degree inflation. The OT "doctorate" becoming an entry level degree is a good example of it. Many students will have a debt load similar to medical school, and far exceeding that of PA or NP school. They might start to ask, rightly so, should I consider another field?

 

[OTmomma]

Sure. I can respect that. As an OT I can tell you my anecdotal experience: No one I have ever met has thought the OTD is a wise investment at this time. It's not an entry level degree, it's a management degree. I can't see justification for it if you aren't going to have increased job opportunities or pay. If you don't mind the extra debt load - and you like the program - sure, go for it.

We are reaching a point of degree inflation. The OT "doctorate" becoming an entry level degree is a good example of it. Many students will have a debt load similar to medical school, and far exceeding that of PA or NP school. They might start to ask, rightly so, should I consider another field?

Thanks for your post @occupationalguy ! I love hearing from those in the field who have their ear to the ground. My son's PT recently told me she wishes she had gone to PA school instead (for a variety of reasons but I think salary outcome for virtually the same amount of time/effort/cost put into PT school was a big one), so I guess maybe it's true about what you're saying. My only "problem" with this argument is that I can't see myself in those fields (PA/NP), so I really wouldn't entertain the idea of switching paths. But I definitely see what you're saying if we're talking about someone who wants to be in healthcare and just wants the best return on investment. Definitely good food for thought! I guess overall I'm just disappointed that some schools are transitioning to the entry-level otd instead of offering the masters. I don't want to sound cynical, but I have to wonder what their reasons for doing so really are...

 

[TCMena]

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