Developing a New Company

[jonathon]

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[echod]

This is not a question, but I would like to have some feedback with some ideas I have.

The training process for becoming a tenured professor in the biological sciences is way too long and the number of applicants far outweighs the number of jobs available. Therefore, I have been doing some really deep and hard thinking about what I can do to satisfy my passionate interests that I have in genetic research.

The normal process of training for a scientist in the biological sciences is to get a Ph.D. that can take anywhere from 5 to 8 years and then do a post-doc that can range from 3 to 6 years. If a person is lucky they can get a job after all of this training (there are way more applicants then jobs).

What I would like to do is develop my own company after getting a Ph.D. in Human genetics (with a group of people---will have to develop a strong group of friends) that does mutation screening and genotyping of patients with genetic syndromes and for genetic disorders. Other aspects of the company I would like to implement is genetic counseling, genetic testing for predispostion to genetic disorders, and do genetic testing (both full genome scanning and SNP’s) for every genetic syndrome and disorder known in humans. Along with all of the genetic testing, I would also like to have some labs in the company that does basic science research in developmental genetics, stem cell transplantations (with only using adult stem cells or unethically challenged embryonic stem cells), congenital cardiac defects (and other birth defects research), and some biomedical research for trying to develop new therapies for patients that have genetic syndromes. I’m also thinking about employing MD’s in clinical genetics, pediatrics, radiology, pediatric cardiovascular surgery, and internal medicine so patients can be treated at this company after being referred from physicians from around the country, and other countries, to be treated here. This way clinician’s and scientists can work together under the same roof. Therefore, researchers can learn from clinician’s about what type of research needs to be done to help develop new treatments for patients that have genetic syndromes and birth defects. Also, scientists will be better able to talk with clinician’s about basic research findings and help increase the time it takes from basic research findings to the bedside.

I think for a company like this to get started needs to start with a hefty grant from the NIH.

What do you think of my idea?

P.S. Please don’t be an ass when replaying to this. I’m really passionate about this.

jonathan,
what are your credentials? are you a med student? a grad student? or an md/phd? undergrad? the ideas that you have are very good, but you're not the first one to come up with them. you also won't be the last. i've heard about them, at least bits and pieces, many times before. i'm just learning this, but things are pretty complicated. how much experience do you have with what you just said? i'm an md/phd student. with your proposal, most likely you won't be doing much research yourself. is that okay with you?

i'm curious about your thoughts

 

[dl2dp2]

you don't need to (and can't) get a grant from NIH to start a company (except in the case of certain very specialized programs NIH has...but that's more of an exception than the rule.)

however, venture capital money is very plentiful out there.

the problem you have though, is that you need to be aware of a very different culture in the business world compared to academia.

can you schmooze with the rich people?
are you ready to take on the politics and the game of raising money and pushing products (some of which may be of less than excellent quality)?
are you charismatic enough and cockey enough and persistent enough?

remember actual scientific merit counts very little in the real world. everything boils down to the bottom line. just something to think about.

 

[solitude]

This is not a question, but I would like to have some feedback with some ideas I have.

The training process for becoming a tenured professor in the biological sciences is way too long and the number of applicants far outweighs the number of jobs available. Therefore, I have been doing some really deep and hard thinking about what I can do to satisfy my passionate interests that I have in genetic research.

The normal process of training for a scientist in the biological sciences is to get a Ph.D. that can take anywhere from 5 to 8 years and then do a post-doc that can range from 3 to 6 years. If a person is lucky they can get a job after all of this training (there are way more applicants then jobs).

What I would like to do is develop my own company after getting a Ph.D. in Human genetics (with a group of people---will have to develop a strong group of friends) that does mutation screening and genotyping of patients with genetic syndromes and for genetic disorders. Other aspects of the company I would like to implement is genetic counseling, genetic testing for predispostion to genetic disorders, and do genetic testing (both full genome scanning and SNP’s) for every genetic syndrome and disorder known in humans. Along with all of the genetic testing, I would also like to have some labs in the company that does basic science research in developmental genetics, stem cell transplantations (with only using adult stem cells or unethically challenged embryonic stem cells), congenital cardiac defects (and other birth defects research), and some biomedical research for trying to develop new therapies for patients that have genetic syndromes. I’m also thinking about employing MD’s in clinical genetics, pediatrics, radiology, pediatric cardiovascular surgery, and internal medicine so patients can be treated at this company after being referred from physicians from around the country, and other countries, to be treated here. This way clinician’s and scientists can work together under the same roof. Therefore, researchers can learn from clinician’s about what type of research needs to be done to help develop new treatments for patients that have genetic syndromes and birth defects. Also, scientists will be better able to talk with clinician’s about basic research findings and help increase the time it takes from basic research findings to the bedside.

I think for a company like this to get started needs to start with a hefty grant from the NIH.

What do you think of my idea?

P.S. Please don’t be an ass when replaying to this. I’m really passionate about this.

I like your idea, but why demand that it has to take place in an industry setting? Ideas like this are being developed in academia as well. For example, see http://www.carverlab.org/. This center is essentially exactly what you have planned, only the professors are tenured in case it falls through, and they can receive grants from the NIH. As a matter of fact, the guys in charge of this are both MD/PhD's.

 

[jonathon]

jonathan,
what are your credentials? are you a med student? a grad student? or an md/phd? undergrad? the ideas that you have are very good, but you're not the first one to come up with them. you also won't be the last. i've heard about them, at least bits and pieces, many times before. i'm just learning this, but things are pretty complicated. how much experience do you have with what you just said? i'm an md/phd student. with your proposal, most likely you won't be doing much research yourself. is that okay with you?

i'm curious about your thoughts

Hi,

I’m a second semester junior undergraduate student. I’m 24 years old. Yah, I understand my ideas are not new. There are a few companies out there like Prevetiongenetics that does very similar work.

I’m trying position myself in a situation that suits my interests. I love doing bench research related to Human genetic disorders, but it’s very hard to feel the satisfaction of being able to help out individuals who have a genetic disorder by doing the bench research alone (the chance of actually getting a job that fits my interests is so low its not worth training for 16 years and not getting the job…the pay is slow during the training as well). When I shadowed some genetic counselors and clinical geneticists a year ago, I really enjoyed being with the patient and helping them out with understanding the genetic disorder they have, doing the pre pregnancy screening, and so forth. However, at the same time I enjoyed being with the patient and talking about the genetic disorder, I also wanted to be apart of some research related to congenital malformations. Therefore, I’m really looking into becoming a genetics counselor and while also getting involved with some basic science research that involves congenital malformations.

There are some graduate programs that offer Ph.D.’s in Medical genetics, but spending 5 years as an undergraduate student, another good 6 to 7 years as a graduate student, and then another 3 to 6 years of doing post-doc work is way to long for the low chances of actually being able to get a job that would fit my interests. There are so many horror stories I have read in the Science Career Forum about people who have spent 15 years as trainee and only get paid ~55,000 dollars starting and are already 42 years old and have no retirement money set aside, no 401K, no secure job, and the university does not give them tenured. So then they end up out of a job. So I’m trying to not go down that road but still work my way into a career situation that suits my interests.

I know that to be respected in the science community I need a Ph.D. I just don't want to go down the road that so many people get stuck with in the academia track.

With becoming a genetics counselor I will at least have a steady income of about 45,000 dollars starting and have better job security. I will have to make sure I get a job at a company, or university hospital, that does congenital malformation research and has a strong medical genetics department, so I can at least try and be involved with some research in the lab and still do genetic counseling. Even though the clinical geneticist is the one who officially diagnoses the patient the specific genetic disorder, the genetic counselor can/does assist in the actual diagnosing.

Maybe I can still write grants for research projects as a genetic counselor; as long as there is a lab I can work in. (if this were possible it would be better then being in heaven...the thought of possibly being able to write grants - with the PI's approval -, do genetic counseling, and still be apart of basic lab research related to congenital malformations is really intriguing).

I’m going to talk to some physicians and genetic counselors at the local medical genetics department where I live about what I can do.

I don’t really care for the normal basic science lab anymore. Translational research is what has become interesting.

I would like the idea of becoming an MD and becoming a clinical geneticist, but my GPA is not competitive for medical school (~ 3.1) and my body can’t take working 30 hour shifts.

I calculated out today the number of years with the income difference it would be before I would even become a PI compared to the number of years I would have with steady income as a genetic counselor. If it took me 14 years (from now) to become a PI the total income would range around 310,000 dollars compared to roughly 485,000 dollars as genetic counselor (this is all before taxes taken out).

 

[Aptamer]

So, I can see where you're coming from...the prospect of bring bench to bedside and back and forth, ya, da, ya, da...yeah, that's cool, but unfortunately, at least, in the realm of biotechnology, you need a lot of credentials that you have to work for in order to obtain the goals that you desire. Many biotechnology companies were developed by former professors whose previous research discovered marketable technologies for biotechnology in the form of diagnostics and therapeutics. So, this is one route for you, make a name for yourself and then pimp yourself out (like sluox said) to VCs for some start up monies. (You'd be extremely hard pressed to get the NIH to bankroll a start up...although there are small award SBIRs and STTRs that exists for joint ventures between academia and industry.) If you wanted to obviate formal graduate training, then you probably need to team up with someone who does have the credentials that you need.

Secondly, one thing that you have to consider is that many technologies that you desire to utilize are probably already employed and patented for one's (not yours) profit. Yeah, SNPs are cool because identifying genetic predisposition leads to this or pharmogenomics leads to that...ya da ya da ya da. The most appropriate question for you to ask is how am I (or my idea) different than everyone else out there. Because there's a lot of technologies available for SNP analysis, right? Like, pyrosequencing, old-school Sanger sequencing, polony sequencing, SNP (whole genome) chips, picoliter sequencing....they all exist...the question is, do you own (the patent) to any of these? If the answer is yes, then you can start up a company based on these technologies. If not, then the rights are probably already taken up especially by Big Pharma.

I'm not trying to knock your ideas, but I wanted to stress the realities of biotechnology and moreover, realities of captialism. Believe me, most of us would love the idea of starting a very successful company, make some dough without lifting a finger, and live of the coast of Italy, drinking wine and eat cheese everyday but...there's a lot of work that you need to pour in to get that which you desire on the other end. Probablistically, you would be very hard pressed to start a successful biotech company without doing anything. I mean, seriously, if you were an investor (angel or VC) who would you bet on, a person who eh, didn't want to go to graduate school and have no merits on paper or someone who has been around for 20 years, sustained a steady stream of grant funding, and produced meritorious original research since the inception of their career?

But if you want a job now, go get it...no one is stopping you. And ultimately, you determine your destiny. And please, feel free to prove me wrong.

To be absolutely blunt with you (and please don't think I'm being an ass...I'm watching Sportscenter as I write this so I'm not choosing my words carefully), you seem to be very money-focused. And unfortunately, in science, you're going to be poor for a long long time before you can even see some green. If you want a good career now at this very moment, science ain't the way. If you want to still do this, you probably would be better off on the business side of biotech and sidestep the science. Would you not agree?

Hi,

I’m a second semester junior undergraduate student. I’m 24 years old. Yah, I understand my ideas are not new. There are a few companies out there like Prevetiongenetics that does very similar work.

I’m trying position myself in a situation that suits my interests. I love doing bench research related to Human genetic disorders, but it’s very hard to feel the satisfaction of being able to help out individuals who have a genetic disorder by doing the bench research alone (the chance of actually getting a job that fits my interests is so low its not worth training for 16 years and not getting the job…the pay is slow during the training as well). When I shadowed some genetic counselors and clinical geneticists a year ago, I really enjoyed being with the patient and helping them out with understanding the genetic disorder they have, doing the pre pregnancy screening, and so forth. However, at the same time I enjoyed being with the patient and talking about the genetic disorder, I also wanted to be apart of some research related to congenital malformations. Therefore, I’m really looking into becoming a genetics counselor and while also getting involved with some basic science research that involves congenital malformations.

There are some graduate programs that offer Ph.D.’s in Medical genetics, but spending 5 years as an undergraduate student, another good 6 to 7 years as a graduate student, and then another 3 to 6 years of doing post-doc work is way to long for the low chances of actually being able to get a job that would fit my interests. There are so many horror stories I have read in the Science Career Forum about people who have spent 15 years as trainee and only get paid ~55,000 dollars starting and are already 42 years old and have no retirement money set aside, no 401K, no secure job, and the university does not give them tenured. So then they end up out of a job. So I’m trying to not go down that road but still work my way into a career situation that suits my interests.

I know that to be respected in the science community I need a Ph.D. I just don't want to go down the road that so many people get stuck with in the academia track.

With becoming a genetics counselor I will at least have a steady income of about 45,000 dollars starting and have better job security. I will have to make sure I get a job at a company, or university hospital, that does congenital malformation research and has a strong medical genetics department, so I can at least try and be involved with some research in the lab and still do genetic counseling. Even though the clinical geneticist is the one who officially diagnoses the patient the specific genetic disorder, the genetic counselor can/does assist in the actual diagnosing.

Maybe I can still write grants for research projects as a genetic counselor; as long as there is a lab I can work in. (if this were possible it would be better then being in heaven...the thought of possibly being able to write grants - with the PI's approval -, do genetic counseling, and still be apart of basic lab research related to congenital malformations is really intriguing).

I’m going to talk to some physicians and genetic counselors at the local medical genetics department where I live about what I can do.

I don’t really care for the normal basic science lab anymore. Translational research is what has become interesting.

I would like the idea of becoming an MD and becoming a clinical geneticist, but my GPA is not competitive for medical school (~ 3.1) and my body can’t take working 30 hour shifts.

I calculated out today the number of years with the income difference it would be before I would even become a PI compared to the number of years I would have with steady income as a genetic counselor. If it took me 14 years (from now) to become a PI the total income would range around 310,000 dollars compared to roughly 485,000 dollars as genetic counselor (this is all before taxes taken out).

 

[Gut Shot]

You state that you don't want to spend 15 years as a trainee only to end up an untenured professor, and you're absolutely right about wanting to avoid that fate. Your dream, however, is an inherently risky one, and if you decide to play it safe your whole life it's going to be a difficult one to fulfill. I might be wrong, but being a genetic counselor who may dabble in research doesn't strike me as a good position from which to launch a ground-breaking, multimillion dollar corporation. As someone who will have been a trainee for 15 years (grad sch. + med sch. + residency + fellowship) all I can say is that you have to earn your spurs at some point.

I feel this is one of those unusual instances where a certain degree of myopia is actually beneficial. If you're interested in translational research then you should go do translational research, probably in a PhD program. That's where I'd start. The field of molecular diagnostics is shifting extremely quickly, and nobody knows what it will look like in three years, much less beyond that, so I would immerse myself in the field as deeply as possible. At that point you might be able to refine your goals having surveyed the reality of things in 5-6 years time.

 

[jonathon]

Hi Havarti,

Getting the Ph.D. will be something I need to do. I'm ok with that. Just need to avoid going the academia route that so many people get trapped in.

There is a cardiovascular translational research program at the University of Wisconsin that I’m very interested in. This would fulfill the void I feel when working in a normal basic biological laboratory.

As long as the void is fulfilled, then there is no need to bother thinking about developing a company in the future.

I’m going to talk to some people if I can get a masters in genetic counseling and a Ph.D. in clinical genetics.

This way I can do translational research and still counsel patients.

Sorry for ranting on, I wanted to voice my thoughts on this message board to help figure out the best path to go to avoid the academia trap and still fulfill my interests.

You state that you don't want to spend 15 years as a trainee only to end up an untenured professor, and you're absolutely right about wanting to avoid that fate. Your dream, however, is an inherently risky one, and if you decide to play it safe your whole life it's going to be a difficult one to fulfill. I might be wrong, but being a genetic counselor who may dabble in research doesn't strike me as a good position from which to launch a ground-breaking, multimillion dollar corporation. As someone who will have been a trainee for 15 years (grad sch. + med sch. + residency + fellowship) all I can say is that you have to earn your spurs at some point.

I feel this is one of those unusual instances where a certain degree of myopia is actually beneficial. If you're interested in translational research then you should go do translational research, probably in a PhD program. That's where I'd start. The field of molecular diagnostics is shifting extremely quickly, and nobody knows what it will look like in three years, much less beyond that, so I would immerse myself in the field as deeply as possible. At that point you might be able to refine your goals having surveyed the reality of things in 5-6 years time.