Did Mangione suffer from failed back, Modic changes, medial branch causalgia, and cluneal neuralgia?

IPSIS: Formerly the Spine Intervention Society
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
drusso

drusso

Full Member
Moderator Emeritus
Lifetime Donor
Verified Member
Physician
Verified Expert
Gold Donor
Joined
Nov 21, 1998
Messages
13,026
Reaction score
7,566
www.nytimes.com

Suspect in C.E.O. Killing Withdrew From a Life of Privilege and Promise

The suspect, Luigi Mangione, was an Ivy League tech graduate from a prominent Maryland family who in recent months had suffered physical and psychological pain.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

"A social media account that appeared to belong to Mr. Mangione featured an X-ray image of a spine reinforced with surgical implants. The X-ray showed a spinal fusion, a procedure that uses screws and rods to fuse two levels of the spine to address a misalignment that can cause serious pain, according to Dr. Hasit Mehta, a professor at New York Medical College."

Was he denied access to pain surgery that could have restored his life?
Members don't see this ad.
 
Probably just had axial pain, denied Intracept, settled for fusion, worse off now
 
Members don't see this ad :)
He had money, so why blame the insurance company? The surgeon would have been a much easier target to find and execute. And his manifesto apparently only blames insurance company, not the doctor.
 
drusso said:
www.nytimes.com

Suspect in C.E.O. Killing Withdrew From a Life of Privilege and Promise

The suspect, Luigi Mangione, was an Ivy League tech graduate from a prominent Maryland family who in recent months had suffered physical and psychological pain.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

"A social media account that appeared to belong to Mr. Mangione featured an X-ray image of a spine reinforced with surgical implants. The X-ray showed a spinal fusion, a procedure that uses screws and rods to fuse two levels of the spine to address a misalignment that can cause serious pain, according to Dr. Hasit Mehta, a professor at New York Medical College."

Was he denied access to pain surgery that could have restored his life?
Click to expand...
No. He attributes a lot of anger to his mom's pain as well.

I think what was missing here was the capacity to accept (or no one explained) that medicine can't cure all pain.

He was at the "anger" stage of grief and just lashed out with the self righteous indignation of youth.
 
JoeLores said:
He had money, so why blame the insurance company? The surgeon would have been a much easier target to find and execute. And his manifesto apparently only blames insurance company, not the doctor.
Click to expand...
I see patients with millions who won’t spend money on procedures that were denied. Literally won’t spend 200-500 bucks. And i see people without anything who will spend the cash price just to get it done.
 
I guess that’s why we get psych evals for stim. Lol. Do they require them for fusions as well?
 
IMHO there is a good chance he is schizophrenic. Right age, Hx is compatible. Bet he gets off with an insanity plea. BTW if he is Schizophrenic he should get an insanity plea.
 
I told my staff that if any patients reference the UHC CEO shooting when they think their pain isn’t well-treated by me, tell them they’re not attractive enough to get away with anything
 
Agast said:
I told my staff that if any patients reference the UHC CEO shooting when they think their pain isn’t well-treated by me, tell them they’re not attractive enough to get away with anything
Click to expand...
That’s pretty disgusting, but kinda funny unless they sue you and your staff for sexual harassment. Cuz #metoo
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Does not appear schizophrenic to me, but I haven’t invested a ton of energy into this. He sounds available on an emotional level.
 
He could be playing it up to look that way. He's a smart guy, I'm sure he's thought about it as a defense. Then again if it's just starting to kick in it would be hard to tell, like a beautiful mind
 
MitchLevi said:
Does not appear schizophrenic to me, but I haven’t invested a ton of energy into this. He sounds available on an emotional level.
Click to expand...
He apparently went through an abrupt personality change about 6 months ago according to his close friends. He is the right age. He is simpatico with the Unabomber (eventually Dx as a paranoid schizophrenic). The crime itself is weird, I don't think he personally knew the victim. His family will know, they are keeping quiet so far. Not something one wants to publicize.
 
Only problem I have with it is that he seems pretty exact in his thinking, and while I don't think this is a reasonable move to make (murder) it doesn't necessarily sound crazy (despite the fact it is crazy AF!!!!).

It will be interesting to see what all comes out over the next few weeks.

Like he ultimately claims alien abduction and probing (deep, vigorous, aggressive) or something like that.
 
lot of weird info coming out.

he had the gun on him. and his hand-written manifesto. along with 8000K in cash and some foreign currency. and monopoly money. what was he doing in Altoona?

seems like he was an over achiever who then went to some random gaming boarding house and was staying in hostels. i also hear that the 3D printed gun may not have been the weapon used in the shooting.

a psychotic break is starting to look more possible
 
MitchLevi said:
Only problem I have with it is that he seems pretty exact in his thinking, and while I don't think this is a reasonable move to make (murder) it doesn't necessarily sound crazy (despite the fact it is crazy AF!!!!).

It will be interesting to see what all comes out over the next few weeks.

Like he ultimately claims alien abduction and probing (deep, vigorous, aggressive) or something like that.
Click to expand...
The Unabomber was eventually Dx as a paranoid schizophrenic and he seemed better at his thinking than Luigi. Methinks there is a fine line between conspiracy theorists and paranoid schizophrenics.
 
SSdoc33 said:
lot of weird info coming out.

he had the gun on him. and his hand-written manifesto. along with 8000K in cash and some foreign currency. and monopoly money. what was he doing in Altoona?

seems like he was an over achiever who then went to some random gaming boarding house and was staying in hostels. i also hear that the 3D printed gun may not have been the weapon used in the shooting.

a psychotic break is starting to look more possible
Click to expand...
The problem with that defense is that his frustration is completely rational. It's not like he was saying aliens did this to him or voices told him to do it.

He lays out a perfectly rational case for revenge, hatches a plan, and then executes it.

And his outburst that, "this isn't American's lived experience!" seems most like an entitled, over-educated, indoctrinated man child than anything else.
 
lobelsteve said:
The pic shows ongoing listhesis after the fusion. So he hopefully had F/E films showing 4+mm translation and defining an unstable spine.
Click to expand...

I noticed this too. I don’t understand why you would leave a listhesis like that. That should’ve been reduced prior to fusion. I know there is some evidence for increased risk of nerve root injury with reduction of high grade listhesis, but this should’ve been reduced.
 
See non reduced listhesis fused to stop movement, keep it from getting worse routinely but he doesn’t have any neuroforamen to work with. A little lift would have helped reduce it and gave his L5 nerves room to breathe. He has lost a lot of weight in just a couple years also so clearly not able to work out anymore or not eating due to psychosis.
 
geauxg8rs said:
I see patients with millions who won’t spend money on procedures that were denied. Literally won’t spend 200-500 bucks. And i see people without anything who will spend the cash price just to get it done.
Click to expand...
Same here. I don’t understand the disconnect. They view healthcare as an entitlement (which it should be), not like any other service for which you play money.
 
BobBarker said:
See non reduced listhesis fused to stop movement, keep it from getting worse routinely but he doesn’t have any neuroforamen to work with. A little lift would have helped reduce it and gave his L5 nerves room to breathe. He has lost a lot of weight in just a couple years also so clearly not able to work out anymore or not eating due to psychosis.
Click to expand...

What’s interesting is after his fusion, he claims he was doing great and pain free. His Reddit posts are posted online and if you follow the timeline, he claims he had a great response to the fusion
 
Maybe took too long to get approved, or never was and had to self pay, approved but didn't cover enough, approved but payment denied on the back end, lot of things you can gripe about
 
sloh said:
What’s interesting is after his fusion, he claims he was doing great and pain free. His Reddit posts are posted online and if you follow the timeline, he claims he had a great response to the fusion
Click to expand...
If you get on linkedin and check the Neurosurgeons' posts.....
Nothing but poking fun at the ongoing listhesis and the terribly placed screws.
 
sloh said:
Yeah that’s a possibility. I can’t wrap my head around what happened to this guy. If he got the results he was looking for, maybe just had some psychotic outbreak?
Click to expand...
If the fusion worked great, it’s probably that UHC put him through the denial wringer before approving the surgery. Sorry, you didn’t document which 3 categories of meds you failed. Oh, we need detailed notes from your PT and the specific dates you did sessions. Oh, you need to fail 2 epidurals first. Need a psych clearance.
 
callmeanesthesia said:
If the fusion worked great, it’s probably that UHC put him through the denial wringer before approving the surgery. Sorry, you didn’t document which 3 categories of meds you failed. Oh, we need detailed notes from your PT and the specific dates you did sessions. Oh, you need to fail 2 epidurals first. Need a psych clearance.
Click to expand...

lol turns out he wasn’t even insured by UHC
 
He said in one post that doctors are basically idiots that need to be "managed". He tried to convince people to twist doctors arms to get them to do surgery because it was so great and successful and he was right all along.

My guess is that, as the initial euphoria post surgery wore off, reality of failed back was starting to clash with his narcissism and cognitive dissonance.
 
epidural man said:
Dude - the election was stolen...why can't people get that through their heads? The FBI made D'Souza lie about lying. Duh.
Click to expand...
You talking about Dinesh? And you being serious or facetious
 
epidural man said:
I’m I being serious that Dinesh is a ******? Yes…yes I am.
Click to expand...
You talking about his 2000 mules movie? I think everything in that was true unfortunately. A lot of weird things happened around that election. It was strange they got significantly more votes that election than any prior or since
 
clubdeac said:
You talking about his 2000 mules movie? I think everything in that was true unfortunately. A lot of weird things happened around that election. It was strange they got significantly more votes that election than any prior or since
Click to expand...
He admitted that it wasn't true. IT was all over the news last week.

www.mediamatters.org

Dinesh D'Souza admits his debunked election denial film 2000 Mules included “inaccurate information”

Two and a half years after releasing 2000 Mules, right-wing filmmaker and Trump pardon recipient Dinesh D’Douza has backtracked on portions of his debunked conspiracy theory film, which CNN’s Donie O’Sullivan reported is still used by “the MAGA universe … as proof that people point to to try and...
www.mediamatters.org www.mediamatters.org
 
epidural man said:
He admitted that it wasn't true. IT was all over the news last week.

www.mediamatters.org

Dinesh D'Souza admits his debunked election denial film 2000 Mules included “inaccurate information”

Two and a half years after releasing 2000 Mules, right-wing filmmaker and Trump pardon recipient Dinesh D’Douza has backtracked on portions of his debunked conspiracy theory film, which CNN’s Donie O’Sullivan reported is still used by “the MAGA universe … as proof that people point to to try and...
www.mediamatters.org www.mediamatters.org
Click to expand...
After reading the article it appears the news sources denouncing the film and celebrating the apology have had a long, deep vested interest in promulgating left wing ideologies and supporting democratic politicians. In other words, many of these sources are biased

With that being said, after reading the article it appears there was a mistake tying surveillance video to geolocation data for one individual which is very unfortunate b/c many will use this, as seen in the article, to discredit the entire film. That's not what D'Souza or Salem media is admitting to. However any mistake is going to be pounced on by the aforementioned media to discredit the entire film. I don't think they've been successful in accomplishing this. Still a lot of questions need to be answered about that election
 
Last edited:
so you go the usual trope and try to blame the reporter even though the source said otherwise.

Salem media retracted the film months ago.

and you might also want to read this article:

apnews.com

Conservative group tells judge it has no evidence to back its claims of Georgia ballot stuffing

A conservative group that claimed to uncover a ballot stuffing scheme in Georgia has told a judge it has no evidence to back up its allegations.
apnews.com apnews.com

Texas-based True the Vote filed complaints with Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger in 2021, including one in which it said it had obtained “a detailed account of coordinated efforts to collect and deposit ballots in drop boxes across metro Atlanta” during the November 2020 election and a January 2021 runoff.

A Fulton County Superior Court judge in Atlanta signed an order last year requiring True the Vote to provide evidence it had collected, including the names of people who were sources of information, to state elections officials who were frustrated by the group’s refusal to share evidence with investigators.
Click to expand...
In their written response, attorneys for True the Vote said the group had no names or other documentary evidence to share.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

D
Medial branch transection
Replies
40
Views
2K
hyperalgesia
hyperalgesia
drusso
Does BVNA Increase Fractures? Implications for Modic Change Epidemic
Replies
10
Views
838
Ducttape
D
drusso
What's a good ICD-10 code for Medial Branch Causalgia?
Replies
1
Views
602
lobelsteve
lobelsteve
C
Route of regeneration of median branch nerve after RFA
Replies
13
Views
1K
soccrwz
S
C
How medial do you advance the needle for a good LTFESI?
Replies
8
Views
1K
pmrmd
P
Top