Did not pass my 1st practicum

[norapport]

Hello,

A few days ago I was told that I would not be given a pass for my first practicum experience. I'm in an Educational Psychology program (clinical). The main concern expressed by the supervisor was being below standard in terms of rapport building. She found that there was no fluidity in my rapport with clients, which resulted in some silence/awkwardness, and in one of the two sessions, I used words that were a big no-no in their estimation. I had a productive feedback session with the instructor that was not willing to pass me, and we seemed to agree 100% on areas that could be improved. I was given two options. I was told that I could accept an F and then appeal it, or I could withdraw (with about 5 days left in the semester), and then re-take the practicum. I took the latter option.

Nevertheless, I'm quite disappointed. I was under the impression from the program that if we were self-aware about mistakes, and that if we showed resilience, we would not be penalized for mistakes, unless they were very serious in nature.

I was told by the director of the program that I have handled the situation really well..but I guess I'm just looking for advice. Is it uncommon to not pass practicum? is it uncommon to not pass for this particular reason?

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[WisNeuro]

It is uncommon to not pass a practicum. You'll need to compensate as you go forward to make up for it. It's hard to say without knowing the specifics of the practicum and their rules, but if someone has not reached a level of clinical acumen, as determined by the site, then not passing the practicum would be the only correct option. In the end, it's about patient care and patient safety. If a provider at the trainee level, has not demonstrated that they have reached a certain level of competence, in whatever skills are being utilized in a certain context, it would actually be unethical for the practicum to actually pass that person. I don't know what was done in terms of remediation or whatnot before this point, so that could play into it as well.

You mentioned that you have had very productive meeting on what you needed to address. I would take this to heart and enlist the help of your advisor, and other students in the program. You'll need to get it under wraps. Especially rapport, if you can't build rapport, it doesn't matter how well you know the theories and applications of clinical work from an intellectual perspective, you'll have a bear of a time getting the patient to go along with you.

 

[Ollie123]

I have never heard of anyone failing practicum, but there are a number of things that seem weird to me about the situation. I've also never heard of a practicum entailing only two sessions (unless I misunderstood)? Normally this involves working 10-20 hours on-site in a clinic with dozens of contact hours. I also don't know what the "no-no" words were and how extreme this may have been. A few moments of awkward silence here and there is frankly, kind of the norm in therapy contexts. Failing someone for that during their first practicum experience would be unbelievably extreme. On the other hand, if you spent a full 30 minutes sitting in silence because you were literally shaking with fear and too uncomfortable to speak...it is clearly warranted. I curse in front of clients with some regularity, though obviously you have to know your audience. On the other hand, if you were cursing "at" a patient, discussing inappropriate topics, leading them during testing, etc. that is another matter. So its tough to tell if this is "you" or "them."

Good that you kept an F off your transcript, though if it shows up as a withdraw that will still look weird. Not much you can do other than take it again and make sure you ace it the next time around.

 

[norapport]

I have never heard of anyone failing practicum, but there are a number of things that seem weird to me about the situation. I've also never heard of a practicum entailing only two sessions (unless I misunderstood)? Normally this involves working 10-20 hours on-site in a clinic with dozens of contact hours. I also don't know what the "no-no" words were and how extreme this may have been. A few moments of awkward silence here and there is frankly, kind of the norm in therapy contexts. Failing someone for that during their first practicum experience would be unbelievably extreme. On the other hand, if you spent a full 30 minutes sitting in silence because you were literally shaking with fear and too uncomfortable to speak...it is clearly warranted. I curse in front of clients with some regularity, though obviously you have to know your audience. On the other hand, if you were cursing "at" a patient, discussing inappropriate topics, leading them during testing, etc. that is another matter. So its tough to tell if this is "you" or "them."

Good that you kept an F off your transcript, though if it shows up as a withdraw that will still look weird. Not much you can do other than take it again and make sure you ace it the next time around.

Hello,

Just to clarify.

We have two practicums and one internship in this program. Practicums are 200 hours each, and internship is 1600hours. By 'two sessions', I was referring to the fact that within those 200 hours, I had two different clients where I was administered measures (WISC, WIAT) and this is where I had the opportunity to do the rapport.

To clarify about the "no-no" words. One of my clients was a slightly older adolescent. During file review, parent intake, and case conceptualization, it was clear that the client thought the whole process was bs and that he thought it be a waste of time. I was in charge of administering the WIAT. I was trying to be genuine and upfront, and said that while the test may be 'boring' (this is the no-no word), that he should try his best because this was important. I used the word twice. In hindsight, I can see how this could potentially impact performance..nevertheless, I was trying to be upfront with an older client and manage expectations.

I think that my rapport was generally ok, but the above situation made it much easier to not pass me.

 

[WisNeuro]

Hello,

Just to clarify.

We have two practicums and one internship in this program. Practicums are 200 hours each, and internship is 1600hours. By 'two sessions', I was referring to the fact that within those 200 hours, I had two different clients where I was administered measures (WISC, WIAT) and this is where I had the opportunity to do the rapport.

Just to be clear, every second you spend face to face with a patient is building rapport. While you need to establish it up front, it's a continuing clinical skill. It's always in the background of our work, be it therapy or assessment.

Calling educational assessments boring generally wouldn't be a sole reason to fail someone on a prac.

 

[PsyDr]

What's done is done. You're not likely to appeal and pass.

Moving forward:

1) Ask other students what they did, emulate that, even if it seems unnatural to you.
2) Avoid that practicum site like the plague for the rest of your career.
3) Figure out how to positively spin this for internship interviews.
4) Avoid classes where friends of the supervisor are teaching.
5) Practice the hell out of administration.
6) Discuss the steps you are taking to remediate the problems with your academic advisor so you can have someone on your side who knows you are trying.
7) Look into other factors that are driving their evaluation, because frankly this sounds like one of those situations where the real issue is something that is less definable like dress, mannerisms, wearing designer sweatpants, or something like that.

Also, either you are describing a very strange practicum or you need to work on how to describe things in the written word. Because it sounds like you are doing two WISC admins per 200hrs.

 

[Ollie123]

I'm not sure what you mean by "do the rapport". I hope within those 200 hours you had FAR more contact time than that? As others have said, rapport is a continuous process and is occurring every second you are in contact with someone (and arguably some times when you are not).

Regardless, referencing a test as boring in an attempt to build rapport with an adolescent and having 2 awkward sessions out of 200 hours (I'm assuming this is ~ 200 F2F hours) sounds an insane reason to fail someone to me. Again, unless there is more to this story or we're missing something.

 

[norapport]

I'm not sure what you mean by "do the rapport". I hope within those 200 hours you had FAR more contact time than that? As others have said, rapport is a continuous process and is occurring every second you are in contact with someone (and arguably some times when you are not).

Regardless, referencing a test as boring in an attempt to build rapport with an adolescent and having 2 awkward sessions out of 200 hours (I'm assuming this is ~ 200 F2F hours) sounds an insane reason to fail someone to me. Again, unless there is more to this story or we're missing something.

I'm trying to keep certain details private to keep things discreet but I can tell you that not much of importance is missing.

I can give you a little detail about our practicum. Our first practicum is 200 hours total, and we have to administer a WISC and a WIAT successfully to pass practicum. So we are talking about 2.5-3.5 hours per client to administer each of those. Our rapport building with the client is literally a 20-30 minute interview before the WISC administration. 5-10 minutes before the WIAT. We do not interview the parents for intake (this is done by students farther along in the program), nor do we do the feedback with the parents. However, if we are part of a case, we do observe the whole process. (the clinic has one of those one way windows, where multiple people can observe and listen in).

Observation of others, file review, case conceptualization, and practicing different test measures is how the rest of our 200 hours are organized. The actual amount of time I got to spend with clients is about 6hrs. This is how it is for ALL students in my year.

 

[WisNeuro]

Observation of others, file review, case conceptualization, and practicing different test measures is how the rest of our 200 hours are organized. The actual amount of time I got to spend with clients is about 6hrs. This is how it is for ALL students in my year.

If this and one other practicum are all that is required, there is no way this meets requirements for accreditation.

 

[norapport]

If this and one other practicum are all that is required, there is no way this meets requirements for accreditation.

We have two practicums, and one 1600 hour internship.

 

[WisNeuro]

We have two practicums, and one 1600 hour internship.

For clinical psychology, an internship is something that occurs at the end of your doctoral training. It's something that you apply through the APPIC portal for. Do you mean a more intensive external practicum through your program itself? Either way, you will need hundreds of hours of just face to face time with patients in intervention and assessment contexts to be competitive for clinical internships. Many sites have a minimum cutoff of 500 face to face hours.

 

[Ollie123]

I'm hesitant to offer further recommendations. This sounds like an incredibly unusual program setup so I'm really not sure how to comment.

Is the 1600 hour internship what most of us mean by internship? i.e. through the APPIC system that you apply to separately from your program? Or do you have some sort of "internal" internship you do in addition to the actual internship (I imagine that would have to be the case since no way you are getting an internship with what you describe)? Is this a doctoral, program or a master's/EdS program? Online or traditional? What you refer to as practicum is more like some of the applied courses that we take, not what I typically envision as a practicum or how they are typically discussed here. I'm now extremely convinced we're missing something. Feel free to PM the program name if you feel comfortable.

 

[norapport]

The 1600hrs is part of the program.

I appreciate that you guys need more info, but as mentioned, I would like to keep this kind of discreet and I've already said a lot.

Nevertheless, based on what you guys are saying, this does not seem like the typical practicum experience.

 

[MCParent]

Consult with the faculty in your program. That is not at all typical. Personally I wouldn't let that F stand. I don't see how someone fails a first prac unless they do something unethical.

 

[ExecutiveDysfunction]

I wonder about due process as far as this situation is concerned. I don’t think anyone could possibly be considered competent in assessment administration after 6 hours of practice. Additionally, the program did not (based on OP’s writing) provide feedback in a way that he/she could remediate any skill deficits. That to me reeks of setup for failure. Unless there’s more to the story, it’s probably unrealistic for the program to expect mastery by this method.

 

[norapport]

I wonder about due process as far as this situation is concerned. I don’t think anyone could possibly be considered competent in assessment administration after 6 hours of practice. Additionally, the program did not (based on OP’s writing) provide feedback in a way that he/she could remediate any skill deficits. That to me reeks of setup for failure. Unless there’s more to the story, it’s probably unrealistic for the program to expect mastery by this method.

We had numerous hours to practice the tests before administering to real clients (let's say 15-20...and that counted as part of our hours)..but in the end, we only administered to two clients (which worked out to 6 hours). That 6 hours includes any rapport we had with clients.

This was my first time administering the WISC and WIAT to real clients...I had only passed WIAT and WISC volunteer taped administrations prior to this...and rapport was not even part of these volunteer administrations. (ie we just said a few words, 2-3 minutes and got into administration)

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Agreed that 1) it sounds like an exceedingly odd practicum setup, and 2) there doesn't sound to have been an opportunity to integrate any feedback or remediation.

It sounds like much of the practicum is spent preparing for those 2 test administrations, which are in essence "final exams" of a sort? In that sense, it sounds more like a typical class than a practicum, although even then, there would generally be the opportunity to integrate any sort of constructive criticism received from supervisors. Throwing the only patient contact in at the end, and making it a one-shot deal, seems a bit unfair. Everyone is awkward the first time they work with assessment patients.

I would also second the comments by those above RE: rapport. While this practicum may grade it as only part of that brief interview you mentioned, I would encourage you to view building and maintaining rapport as something you should be doing at essentially all times (even when administering instruments). It improves with practice, but sometimes there does need to be focused work and skill building done.

 

[norapport]

It sounds like much of the practicum is spent preparing for those 2 test administrations, which are in essence "final exams" of a sort? In that sense, it sounds more like a typical class than a practicum, although even then, there would generally be the opportunity to integrate any sort of constructive criticism received from supervisors. Throwing the only patient contact in at the end, and making it a one-shot deal, seems a bit unfair. Everyone is awkward the first time they work with assessment patients.

That is a very accurate description of the practicum.

I'll add more details.

I did get feedback from the supervisor after my first client. His whole focus was on his perception that I was very nervous. I was. No doubt about it. Once I stepped into that room something changed and I got really nervous. I wasn't nervous prior to this. I admitted to him that I was nervous and that I have to do things to manage it better. I was much more comfortable the 2nd time around but still awkward with rapport. My midterm evaluation was totally based on this first experience with a client, and I was rated as below standard in this area.

My next and final client was the experience I described earlier (where I used the word boring twice and tedious once). I'll add one detail. After administering the 2nd subtest (of the WIAT), he called me out and made someone else go in to finish the administration. I was shocked. I asked what happened.. he mentioned that he pulled me out due to word choice and that I was also robotic in my delivery. I replied by saying "It's a standardized test..I was told to do it that way". He didn't really respond to that remark. Nevertheless, he agreed with me that there were no real technical mistakes in the administration. But my final evaluation would be based on this 2nd client experience.

I'll mention one final tidbit. After we do the initial testing (usually WISC, WIAT, and sometimes emotional-behavioral-social measures (BASC,Conners, MASC, etc)..we decide if to do supplemental testing. He wanted me to administer a supplemental measure to the same client where he let someone else take over. The thought of administering this supplemental measure was initially quite embarrassing for me but I got over it, and was almost not nervous at all at time of administration. After I was done, he told me I did good, and that I did much better than on the WIAT. I honestly don't think it was all that much different, though I tried to be much more enthusiastic.

 

[StellaB]

This situation sounds bizarre to me. In my program, we had classes in which we learned to administer assessments, and took a couple of real clients (for free) toward the end of the semester through the department clinic, but this was certainly not considered to be a practicum placement. Most of those hours are bull**** and unusable for internship application if only 6 were face-to-face. What really shocks me about your story is that it sounds like the prof set you up to be incredibly anxious for your final, overreacted to your language use (if it's what you say, it wasn't unethical or bad enough to invalidate the testing), and then made the inexplicable decision to pull you out only to put you back in. If you were so bad as to necessitate someone else taking over, I would think it would have been unethical for him to have you finish the testing. Have you discussed the situation with your advisor and/or the training director? And can you re-take the "practicum" with someone else, or does it have to be the same prof?

 

[norapport]

This situation sounds bizarre to me. In

my program, we had classes in which we learned to administer assessments, and took a couple of real clients (for free) toward the end of the semester through the department clinic, but this was certainly not considered to be a practicum placement. Most of those hours are bull**** and unusable for internship application if only 6 were face-to-face. What really shocks me about your story is that it sounds like the prof set you up to be incredibly anxious for your final, overreacted to your language use (if it's what you say, it wasn't unethical or bad enough to invalidate the testing), and then made the inexplicable decision to pull you out only to put you back in. If you were so bad as to necessitate someone else taking over, I would think it would have been unethical for him to have you finish the testing. Have you discussed the situation with your advisor and/or the training director? And can you re-take the "practicum" with someone else, or does it have to be the same prof?

Hello,

Do you mean the director of the practicum site/clinic? I spoke to her, and while she is a really pleasant and nice person, she told me that she stays out of the decisions that supervisors make because she has complete faith in them and their judgement. She did have a discussion with my supervisor and course instructor (the course instructor is the one that technically decides if you pass/fail), but she just trusts their judgement I guess.

I asked him about why he wanted me to administer additional measures when he kicked me out of the last one, and he said that if the measure was spoiled (it be ok because we didn't need it).

I can re-take the practicum somewhere else..but my final practicum would have to be back on this site.

 

[PsyDr]

We had numerous hours to practice the tests before administering to real clients (let's say 15-20...and that counted as part of our hours)..but in the end, we only administered to two clients (which worked out to 6 hours). That 6 hours includes any rapport we had with clients.

Almost zero chance this is a doctoral program because the appic data doesn’t have data for 2 assessment programs.

This is either a masters program or an EdS or some online degree. Nasp and cas programs are not doctoral.

 

[psych.meout]

This is all really strange, but can we go back to the "boring" part. Admittedly, almost all of my clinical experience both within and before grad school has been with adults, but stating that the test may seem "boring," but it's still important to put forth maximum effort seems like an appropriate way to establish rapport with a child and motivate them to complete the task. It shows that you're being genuine and forthright with them and reflecting the thoughts and emotions gleaned from other information sources and implied by non-verbals, but you're also still being professional and focusing on the purpose of the encounter. I could understand them being upset if you cursed in front of the child or got off on some tangent as if this was a counseling session, but, if what you're telling us is accurate, they're being so obtuse about this specific part and overall situation.

 

[StellaB]

Do you mean the director of the practicum site/clinic?

No, I mean the training director of your psych program. That person should be overseeing all aspects of your training, and there should be a student handbook that details how you would resolve a dispute about your performance. Again, this is all predicated on how you have described the situation - but it sounds to me like you were not given adequate opportunity to demonstrate mastery, and it also sounds like the reason for failing you was potentially subjective.

 

[norapport]

If it means anything, my colleagues who got to observe me, also commented that what happened to me was quite harsh.

I feel like I want to complain about this supervisor but I'm not sure who else would listen aside from the director of the clinic?

The sad thing is, what happened to me is nothing compared to what happened to another colleague. (something that also seems way unethical)

ps, this a public university.

 

[ExecutiveDysfunction]

This is all really strange, but can we go back to the "boring" part. Admittedly, almost all of my clinical experience both within and before grad school has been with adults, but stating that the test may seem "boring," but it's still important to put forth maximum effort seems like an appropriate way to establish rapport with a child and motivate them to complete the task. It shows that you're being genuine and forthright with them and reflecting the thoughts and emotions gleaned from other information sources and implied by non-verbals, but you're also still being professional and focusing on the purpose of the encounter. I could understand them being upset if you cursed in front of the child or got off on some tangent as if this was a counseling session, but, if what you're telling us is accurate, they're being so obtuse about this specific part and overall situation.

Totally agree. I have often thanked my clients for bearing with the difficult and annoying process of a neuro assessment. It normalizes the situation for many people that don’t enjoy answering questions and solving problems for hours. Sure, the delivery matters but it’s comforting in my opinion. Especially with children/adolescents.

 

[psych.meout]

If it means anything, my colleagues who got to observe me, also commented that what happened to me was quite harsh.

I feel like I want to complain about this supervisor but I'm not sure who else would listen aside from the director of the clinic?

The sad thing is, what happened to me is nothing compared to what happened to another colleague. (something that also seems way unethical)

ps, this a public university.

You've been asked multiple times what kind of program this is, but you've ignored them or been cryptic about it this whole time. We can't fully help you without some kind of idea what kind of program this is. Different program types fall under different accrediting bodies, have different training standard, expect different skills and responsibilities from their students, and are otherwise so disparate that knowing what your program is will be key to helping you.

Totally agree. I have often thanked my clients for bearing with the difficult and annoying process of a neuro assessment. It normalizes the situation for many people that don’t enjoy answering questions and solving problems for hours. Sure, the delivery matters but it’s comforting in my opinion. Especially with children/adolescents.

Again, I haven't worked with kids very much, but they're used to having to do "boring" things, because adults expect them to, but they are rarely leveled-with about the tasks being "boring" and even less frequently thanked for tolerating the boredom for some greater purpose. Unless OP isn't being completely honest or has a poor sense of how they come off to others (e.g., tone, body language), I really don't see how this was problematic. It just seems so obtuse that using a word like "boring (instead of, say, an insult or obscenity)" is enough to get taken off a case and reprimanded.

 

[Ollie123]

Is this a doctoral program?

Is this a clinical/counseling psychology program?

Is this an APA accredited program?

I get the need to maintain some level of anonymity, but we're clearly struggling to figure out what is going on and advise. I'm not sure why providing this information is any more revealing than what you have already said. Standards differ dramatically across fields. What you describe would be unbelievably bizarre and is unlike any program structure I have ever heard of...but that is for clinical psychology PhD programs. If it isn't one, that might make more sense. A final exam administered by someone who is not the person assigning your grade, a single "internship" within the program...practicum referencing something that is clearly not what most of us think of as practicum...this is not "normal" in psychology.

If it were me, I would bring the case to my DCT at your program (not the practicum site...head of the clinical section of the department at your university), explain the situation and ask if they felt it was reasonable and what advice they may have. To me, that sounds like a practicum supervisor (who may or may not have experience serving in a supervisory role or formal ties to the program based on what I'm hearing?) who has unreasonable expectations of trainees. We didn't hear much detail about the nervousness/awkwardness and moments of silence, but failing for that is bonkers. Everyone is nervous their first time with a patient. On the other hand, it sounds like these were much more "scripted" experiences then I got when I first started.

Really though...I think you need to stop being cryptic about some of this. We don't need program name, but please at least confirm the above. Opinions may differ dramatically if we find out you are in a different field than most of us.

 

[norapport]

Really though...I think you need to stop being cryptic about some of this. We don't need program name, but please at least confirm the above. Opinions may differ dramatically if we find out you are in a different field than most of us.

Masters level, School Psychology, public university, the practicum is at the University clinic.

 

[MAClinician]

Masters level, School Psychology, public university, the practicum is at the University clinic.

Even as a masters program, 6 hours of face to face seems highly inadequate for a practicium. I’m not familiar with the expectations and training requirements for these types of programs, but I’d be concerned as a student I wouldn’t have enough practice before moving on to the next prac or internship. JMO.

 

[psychrat]

I am so sorry that you are going through this. It is a bizarre situation. I am not very familiar with MA in school psychology programs, but the expectation of having a first-year practicum student feel confident and proficient in conducting an assessment after only 6 face-to-face hours seems ludicrous! It also sounds like the supervisor is very micro-managing. I do not see a problem with your language choice, and it sounded like you chose those words as a way to establish rapport and let the child know that you understood he was not enjoying the tasks. I give you credit for being resilient enough to go back into the room after being taken out. Many would lose their composure in a situation like that. If I were in your shoes, I would talk to your DCT and maybe get approval to complete the practicum at another clinic. Doing so may help you feel less anxious and more confident without that supervisor having to continue to evaluate you. Constructive feedback is instrumental to development, but it seems shaming to pull you out in the middle of administration for the reason you gave only put you back in the room. It makes me think that the supervisor has a power issue.

 

[PhDToBe]

I am so sorry that you are going through this. It is a bizarre situation. I am not very familiar with MA in school psychology programs, but the expectation of having a first-year practicum student feel confident and proficient in conducting an assessment after only 6 face-to-face hours seems ludicrous! It also sounds like the supervisor is very micro-managing. I do not see a problem with your language choice, and it sounded like you chose those words as a way to establish rapport and let the child know that you understood he was not enjoying the tasks. I give you credit for being resilient enough to go back into the room after being taken out. Many would lose their composure in a situation like that. If I were in your shoes, I would talk to your DCT and maybe get approval to complete the practicum at another clinic. Doing so may help you feel less anxious and more confident without that supervisor having to continue to evaluate you. Constructive feedback is instrumental to development, but it seems shaming to pull you out in the middle of administration for the reason you gave only put you back in the room. It makes me think that the supervisor has a power issue.

Agreed. I would also talk to your DCT about getting the withdrawal removed from your transcript.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I would second the advice to at least speak with your DCT, and to review your program's grievance process. Mind you, just because other students thought the treatment was harsh doesn't necessarily mean that it was, but there should be a formal channel to address this matter if you do have significant concerns.

In the future, you might look into having your administrations videotaped for you and a supervisor to later review. I've seen situations where anxiety was noticeable but non-interfering, and situations where the display of anxiety substantially impacted assessment and therapy.

 

[MCParent]

Other details are important too. Eg did you get developmental feedback along the way? The final meeting should DEFINITELY not be the first time that you find out something is a serious enough problem to warrant failing. Eg I had a student who was consistently late for supervision, which is an ethical issue—I flat out told him, be five minutes late again and you will fail. Made sure his advisor knew as well. He wasnt late again. But I’d never, in a million years, let those lates accumulate and then surprise the student with a fail. There is definitely some poor process going on (unless there is some other side of the story OP is not saying).

 

[MCParent]

What's done is done. You're not likely to appeal and pass.

Moving forward:

1) Ask other students what they did, emulate that, even if it seems unnatural to you.
2) Avoid that practicum site like the plague for the rest of your career.
3) Figure out how to positively spin this for internship interviews.
4) Avoid classes where friends of the supervisor are teaching.
5) Practice the hell out of administration.
6) Discuss the steps you are taking to remediate the problems with your academic advisor so you can have someone on your side who knows you are trying.
7) Look into other factors that are driving their evaluation, because frankly this sounds like one of those situations where the real issue is something that is less definable like dress, mannerisms, wearing designer sweatpants, or something like that.

Also, either you are describing a very strange practicum or you need to work on how to describe things in the written word. Because it sounds like you are doing two WISC admins per 200hrs.

If you were a TD and you got an app with an F on a prac, and they claimed it was bc of weak rapport skills, would you believe it? I wouldn’t. I’d highly suspect ethical failure with bad documentation and f/u from faculty. Which is why I’d suggest making this a battle they do pick to fight—this can have very bad impacts later on.

 

[WisNeuro]

If you were a TD and you got an app with an F on a prac, and they claimed it was bc of weak rapport skills, would you believe it? I wouldn’t. I’d highly suspect ethical failure with bad documentation and f/u from faculty. Which is why I’d suggest making this a battle they do pick to fight—this can have very bad impacts later on.

TBH, a fail at a prac site is an instant no from me in terms of internship apps. Those are usually rubber stamped A's or passes. I get antsy when someone send in a transcript with a B in the prac grade field. I have too many applications to roll the dice on things that are big red flags.

 

[norapport]

Other details are important too. Eg did you get developmental feedback along the way? The final meeting should DEFINITELY not be the first time that you find out something is a serious enough problem to warrant failing. Eg I had a student who was consistently late for supervision, which is an ethical issue—I flat out told him, be five minutes late again and you will fail. Made sure his advisor knew as well. He wasnt late again. But I’d never, in a million years, let those lates accumulate and then surprise the student with a fail. There is definitely some poor process going on (unless there is some other side of the story OP is not saying).

There were many iffy things going on.

1. There were three supervisors in the clinic and all of them did not watch student administration of measures. They were apparently busy with editing reports.

2. A midterm feedback was sent by supervisors to our course instructor but the majority of students did not have formal feedback with the supervisor. (ie, we did not sit down with them, nor did we see our feedback). I personally did meet with my supervisor after my first client. My first administration was not perfect because of anxiety and he picked up on that. He did say my next one had to be much better. But I didn't get the impression that I was going to fail.

3. Some students (in the same year as I), had problems getting 200hrs because the program did not really organize things well. We had to take initiative to get involved in things like case conceptualization because that was apparently the purview of older students. We would have group leads (students one year ahead of us), and they were in charge of intake/feedback, and overall case conceptualization. I took initiative, so I was able to add those hours, but other students felt left out of the process.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Well, it sounds like you did receive feedback and had an opportunity to integrate it (even if the supervisor didn't explicitly say, "you're going to fail if you don't fix this" afterward). So now the issue essentially appears to be--did your performance in that final assessment warrant failing or not? That might be a more difficult issue to pursue RE: a formal grievance process, but if guidelines weren't followed and documented, there could be a case.

It's also not necessarily bad to require initiative on the part of the student, assuming all necessary opportunities are at least available for everyone. If the potential to earn needed course requirements (e.g., the 200 hours) isn't available to all students, then that seems like a big problem.

At the very least, it sounds like they should probably integrate more direct interaction between supervisors and students. But I'm not familiar enough with masters-level training and accreditation standards to know if what you've described is sufficient and/or common.

 

[psychrat]

TBH, a fail at a prac site is an instant no from me in terms of internship apps. Those are usually rubber stamped A's or passes. I get antsy when someone send in a transcript with a B in the prac grade field. I have too many applications to roll the dice on things that are big red flags.

I agree with this. Although I have never met anyone who failed practicum, I would assume the worst (i.e. ethical violation, patient harm). I have met people who were asked to take on an additional practicum to work on a skills deficit, however. You decided to withdraw, which is better than failing but still may raise questions in the future.

 

[Lotus143]

I think you are confusing all of us by using the terms “practicum” and “internship” which it seems like your program is not using it in the same sense like the rest of the clinical psychology world.

This seems more like a class except you then get to administer the measures to real clients. We had classes like that except we administered the measures to family and friends. Also, your options were to get an “F” or retake the “practicum” which makes me think this is a class not an actually practicum. The “1600 internship” that is part of your program is what we would normally consider a practicum. My program had 3 practicums that gave us 1500-2000 total face to face hours, so it seems your program consolidates it all into one practicum which you called “internship” which is quite confusing.

 

[norapport]

I think you are confusing all of us by using the terms “practicum” and “internship” which it seems like your program is not using it in the same sense like the rest of the clinical psychology world.

This seems more like a class except you then get to administer the measures to real clients. We had classes like that except we administered the measures to family and friends. Also, your options were to get an “F” or retake the “practicum” which makes me think this is a class not an actually practicum. The “1600 internship” that is part of your program is what we would normally consider a practicum. My program had 3 practicums that gave us 1500-2000 total face to face hours, so it seems your program consolidates it all into one practicum which you called “internship” which is quite confusing.

We had a 'residency' component where we had to pass videotaped administrations of particular measures with volunteers before we can see real clients in the clinic for our practicums. Our program has two practicums (one is a academic/cognitive), and the other is a social-emotional-behavioral. Then the third year is the internship.

 

[PsyDr]

If you were a TD and you got an app with an F on a prac, and they claimed it was bc of weak rapport skills, would you believe it? I wouldn’t. I’d highly suspect ethical failure with bad documentation and f/u from faculty. Which is why I’d suggest making this a battle they do pick to fight—this can have very bad impacts later on.

IF OP’s report is accurate, and the in house clinic supervisor fails someone for not establishing rapport AND only lets prwctica students do two assessments administrations despite that being MUCH lower than the median for match and no one at this university gives a crap AND AND AND

Do you really think that arguing is going to change things?

I honestly think op is in a CAS program and is hiding this fact. This is not the forum for that profession, and it would be hard to figure out what is normal or not in that model.

 

[mypointlesspov]

IF OP’s report is accurate, and the in house clinic supervisor fails someone for not establishing rapport AND only lets prwctica students do two assessments administrations despite that being MUCH lower than the median for match and no one at this university gives a crap AND AND AND

Do you really think that arguing is going to change things?

I honestly think op is in a CAS program and is hiding this fact. This is not the forum for that profession, and it would be hard to figure out what is normal or not in that model.

OP said they're in a master's level school psych program. However based on what I know from my colleagues who went through those programs, the number of required practicum hours seems absurdly low.

 

[cara susanna]

I agree that this sounds suuuper weird.

 

[Justanothergrad]

Agreed with others that this has red flags written all over it. I too would assume the worst for a record of failed practicum. Thus, I tend to agree with MCParent that this is worthy of fighting, although I suspect that the outcomes may be hard to change (and for the reasons) as Psydr said. I would take a look at a lot of the feedback you received and see how much was your part in ignoring it and how much was on them.

Also, I would avoid that placement, that supervisor, and those with relations to either in the future to be safe.

 

[psych.meout]

I think you are confusing all of us by using the terms “practicum” and “internship” which it seems like your program is not using it in the same sense like the rest of the clinical psychology world.

This seems more like a class except you then get to administer the measures to real clients. We had classes like that except we administered the measures to family and friends. Also, your options were to get an “F” or retake the “practicum” which makes me think this is a class not an actually practicum. The “1600 internship” that is part of your program is what we would normally consider a practicum. My program had 3 practicums that gave us 1500-2000 total face to face hours, so it seems your program consolidates it all into one practicum which you called “internship” which is quite confusing.

Those 1500-2000 hours are all direct contact, face to face with patients? They don't include supervision, chart review, scoring, report writing, or other non contact hours?

That's way, way above the norm according to the match survey.

Applicant Survey - 2016 - Part 1

Doctoral intervention hours:
Mean=654
Median=600
SD=304

Doctoral assessment hours
Mean=220
Median=171
SD=196

Is this a PsyD program?

 

[PsyDr]

OP said they're in a master's level school psych program. However based on what I know from my colleagues who went through those programs, the number of required practicum hours seems absurdly low.

This is not the masters level forum.

 

[psych.meout]

This is not the masters level forum.

They were playing coy/being cryptic about what exactly their program is for the majority of the thread.

 

[PsyDr]

They were playing coy/being cryptic about what exactly their program is for the majority of the thread.

“Oh, I’m like a psychologist.”

“The only difference is that I didn’t write a dissertation.”

The misdirection starts early.