did you consider being a physician

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makeitrain6969

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Hello there....i was just wondering did any of you who are in dental school or pre-dental, ever consider being a physician? Considering the fact that all the pre reqs for dental school is the same as medical school... if you did consider medical school, what made you change your mind to be a dentist...
 
Yeah, I considered it. But, I want to own my own practice, finish school with the possibility of no residency, do not really want call, and want the option to flex my schedule. Dentistry it is! lol
 
ahhh medicine vs dentistry. A tough decision. To me the study of medicine would be more interesting than dentistry (I suspect). I love to work so neither field is prohibitive by the # of hours worked. However, where dentistry takes the lead is because it's less political. I dont want congress to set my rates or worthless people collecting together to make my services their "right". The patient base also isn't made up of a bunch of entitled seniors (baby boomers) who will put pressure on doctors in the future to give them every bell & whistle @ pennies on the dollar.

If compensation all stayed the same I would most likely choose medicine. Because I cant see myself becoming an expert/professional just to become peoples b*tch boy I choose dentistry.

Just thinking about it makes me bitter LOL.

PS: Just wanted to add that I dont have a crystal ball to tell the future. So take anything I say with a heavy grain of salt.
 
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only after entering dental school did i consider becoming a physician 🙄
 
I thought it about it.. but Dentist lifestyle > Physician lifestyle and that's why I am pre-dent now..

I made a thread about this topic linked in my sig. Check it out
 
I am a soon to be physician married to a soon to be dentist. My wife sometimes laments her choice as she feels medicine is more interesting and you have a much broader knowledge base after completing med school. Also while med school is hard, it is not as difficult as dental school as far as the daily grind. However after we graduate I am sure her opinion might change a bit. Work 35-40 hours a week and make six figures? Yes please. I still have five years of residency making $48,000 a year ahead, and even in a relatively "cush" specialty I will still likely work ~50-55 hours/wk when I am out in practice. Many MDs in surgical fields work 70 hrs/wk. So there definitely are convenience factors associated with dentistry. And if you specialize you can easily earn comparable salaries to MD specialists with about 1/2 as long a residency (excluding OMFS of course, who are ridiculously over trained).

Ridiculously overtrained bc they almost all limit their scope of practice to exts. The ones who still do a lot of OR cases are not over trained.
 
Ridiculously overtrained bc they almost all limit their scope of practice to exts. The ones who still do a lot of OR cases are not over trained.
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And I hate when people say medicine vs. dentistry...uhh dentistry is awesome because its all of the medicine PLUS hands on dental training. I think it is the best of both worlds. And please don't turn this thread into whether medical school is harder than dental school...its just such a ridiculous argument - for both sides. 😀
 
Are you suggesting that the average physician specialist out earns the average dentist? I have noticed that dentist GP salries seem to be larger than physician salaries except in extreme cases.


I am a soon to be physician married to a soon to be dentist. My wife sometimes laments her choice as she feels medicine is more interesting and you have a much broader knowledge base after completing med school. Also while med school is hard, it is not as difficult as dental school as far as the daily grind. However after we graduate I am sure her opinion might change a bit. Work 35-40 hours a week and make six figures? Yes please. I still have five years of residency making $48,000 a year ahead, and even in a relatively "cush" specialty I will still likely work ~50-55 hours/wk when I am out in practice. Many MDs in surgical fields work 70 hrs/wk. So there definitely are convenience factors associated with dentistry. And if you specialize you can easily earn comparable salaries to MD specialists with about 1/2 as long a residency (excluding OMFS of course, who are ridiculously over trained).
 
I switched to dentistry when I realized that I didn’t have high enough MCAT scores and undergrad GPA for medical school. Having seen how hard my brother-in-law, 3 of my cousins, and my uncle (they are all MDs) work, I am glad that I switched to dentistry. These MDs work on the average 8-10 hours a day. After seeing patients at their private offices for 8 hours, my brother-in-law and my cousins still have to bring the patients’ charts home and spend 1-2 more hours to document them. They are too busy that they don’t have the time to document these charts during the office hours. My friend, who is also an MD, had to see a chiropractor (his wife) because he strained his back for carrying these heavy charts. For dentistry, when you are home, you’re done with work…most dental emergencies are not life-threatening and can be dealt with over the phone.
 
Are you suggesting that the average physician specialist out earns the average dentist? I have noticed that dentist GP salries seem to be larger than physician salaries except in extreme cases.

Physicians make more than the average general dentist in yearly salary. Physician specialists make way more on average than general dentists on yearly salary.

But it's longer and harder hours. With way more schooling (on average) and harder academically. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the money in dentistry is not more than medicine, but it's easier.
 
But it's longer and harder hours. With way more schooling (on average) and harder academically. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the money in dentistry is not more than medicine, but it's easier.

Agreed.

A large portion of my family are physicians so naturally I thought I would end up in medical school. When I saw how crappy being a doctor/physician actually is with the terrible hours, non-compliant patients, call, sleep deprivation, and the general negative attitude of their colleagues I decided to look elsewhere.
 
General dentists make more per hour than a family physician. Nuff said...
 
I have utmost respect for what dentists know, but to say it is all of medicine is ridiculous. The depth and scope of medical knowledge doesn't come close. Very few DMD/DDS can even pass our boards without significant dedicated studying.

Oh you guys don't study for usmle 1? So dental students must be keeping goljan out the poor house
 
Haha we study to get a high score. Most medical students can pass step 1 without studying, just not get the score they need to enter a competitive specialty. Sure some fail, but usually not more than one out of a 150+ class. Studies have been done by OMFS programs that show that if you did not score above 90 on the NBDE part one you have a high likelihood of failing USMLE step 1 on the first attempt, even after studying. The foundation of knowledge just isn't there. I know I'm not making friends here, but I don't claim to know oral path as well as a dentist just because I covered it in med school. Lets be real here.

I think you misinterpreted what he meant. When he said it was "all the medicine" he didn't mean "all the medical knowledge" he meant all the medical process. As in taking a symptomatic patient and then diagnosing their disease. And as a dentist, unlike most non surgical physicians, we can then perform the procedure to remove that disease.

Our scope of treated pathology is most definetely very narrow, but being the one that both diagnoses and operates is not typical as a physician, where as dentists do it everyday.

In dental school we are giving regional anesthesia, shaping bone, suturing, etc by our second year. In med school you're still learning to take blood pressures and a proper history and physical (I believe...correct me if I'm wrong).

Or maybe I misinterpreted him and he's just a bit loony...either way...
 
I worked in a hospital as pre-med. Several physicians encouraged me to look into denistry, and only one or two thought it was a bad idea. The main thing for me is residency. I know some physicians who did a residency in Emergency medicine. They told me they would go in at 6AM and not get out till noon the next day! Durring this time they would be in charge of the ICU, Trauma unit, and ER- yeah sleep if u get the chance. They would go home sleep at noon more or less, and be right back at it the next day. Other specialties it's even worse. They told me when they went in at 6AM the neursurg residents were already there, and when they left they were still there.
 
I'm not looney. You got it Sublimazing. 🙂
 
Haha we study to get a high score. Most medical students can pass step 1 without studying, just not get the score they need to enter a competitive specialty. Sure some fail, but usually not more than one out of a 150+ class. Studies have been done by OMFS programs that show that if you did not score above 90 on the NBDE part one you have a high likelihood of failing USMLE step 1 on the first attempt, even after studying. The foundation of knowledge just isn't there. I know I'm not making friends here, but I don't claim to know oral path as well as a dentist just because I covered it in med school. Lets be real here.


let me guess, you'd easily score a 90+ on the NBDE?
 
Yeah, I considered it. But, I want to own my own practice, finish school with the possibility of no residency, do not really want call, and want the option to flex my schedule. Dentistry it is! lol

I totally agree with you on that.
 
I am a soon to be physician married to a soon to be dentist. My wife sometimes laments her choice as she feels medicine is more interesting and you have a much broader knowledge base after completing med school. Also while med school is hard, it is not as difficult as dental school as far as the daily grind. However after we graduate I am sure her opinion might change a bit. Work 35-40 hours a week and make six figures? Yes please. I still have five years of residency making $48,000 a year ahead, and even in a relatively "cush" specialty I will still likely work ~50-55 hours/wk when I am out in practice. Many MDs in surgical fields work 70 hrs/wk. So there definitely are convenience factors associated with dentistry. And if you specialize you can easily earn comparable salaries to MD specialists with about 1/2 as long a residency (excluding OMFS of course, who are ridiculously over trained).

I was thinking about becoming a internal medicine doctor if i were to become a physician...then i thought about what do i really want to do and live my life when i get order...so i remembered the malpractice insurance, high risk for getting sued, working more than 50 hiurs a week even when you are out practicing and having the neurosurgeons, general surgeons and all other surgeons reminding the physicians that they (surgeons) save lives not internal medicine or other non surgeon physicians... i talked to my friend earlier who is in his 4th year in medical school and he told me patients really praise the surgeons with the "saving lives" award not the physicians...

I really like dentistry...you are the doctor in the dental world..you diagnose, come up with treatment plans, perform surgery, practice dental medicine by prescribing medications based on the patient's diagnosis and etc...lifestyle is amazing, great working hours, very respectable career amd much more....

Being a physician, you get that"prestige" reward BUT i would not want to be a physician just so people can give me that prestige feeling...
 
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And I hate when people say medicine vs. dentistry...uhh dentistry is awesome because its all of the medicine PLUS hands on dental training. I think it is the best of both worlds. And please don't turn this thread into whether medical school is harder than dental school...its just such a ridiculous argument - for both sides. 😀

I agree man...dentist practice dental medicine. They prescribe steroids, analgesics, nsaids, antibiotics, antifungals, flourides, anti-anxiety amd etc to treat the patient's problem as well as perform surgery...dentistare the best doctors.
 
I think this all comes down to personal preference more than any kind of objective fact.

One trend I've noticed is that in our non-formal-anti-elistist society I would imagine the prestige reward is not as realized as it was in the past.


I was thinking about becoming a internal medicine doctor if i were to become a physician...then i thought about what do i really want to do and live my life when i get order...so i remembered the malpractice insurance, high risk for getting sued, working more than 50 hiurs a week even when you are out practicing and having the neurosurgeons, general surgeons and all other surgeons reminding the physicians that they (surgeons) save lives not internal medicine or other non surgeon physicians... i talked to my friend earlier who is in his 4th year in medical school and he told me patients really praise the surgeons with the "saving lives" award not the physicians...

I really like dentistry...you are the doctor in the dental world..you diagnose, come up with treatment plans, perform surgery, practice dental medicine by prescribing medications based on the patient's diagnosis and etc...lifestyle is amazing, great working hours, very respectable career amd much more....

Being a physician, you get that"prestige" reward BUT i would not want to be a physician just so people can give me that prestige feeling...
 
Physicians make more than the average general dentist in yearly salary. Physician specialists make way more on average than general dentists on yearly salary.

But it's longer and harder hours. With way more schooling (on average) and harder academically. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the money in dentistry is not more than medicine, but it's easier.

Physicians with way more schooling?? I disagree...both med school and dental require bach degree(mainly in biology, chemistry and etc)...one takes mcat and other takes dat...both are 4 years long (first 2 years are equally the same difficulty)...but physicians go through residency...

Lets be honest here, residency is not schooling...it is a ned grad physician who is practicing their specialty under supervision of a doctor...in residency, they get PAID, medical and dental insurance, sick pay, vacation paid days, supplied meals when on call lol and etc... now if you consider residency "schooling" then shoooooooootttttt i will accept more schooling..
 
I have utmost respect for what dentists know, but to say it is all of medicine is ridiculous. The depth and scope of medical knowledge doesn't come close. Very few DMD/DDS can even pass our boards without significant dedicated studying.

Agree...physicians practice medicine....but it depends what you specialize in...the physicians who truly practice the full scope of medicine are internal medicine doctors....i worked with pain managment doctors, they dont use the full scope of medicine...its the same old medications over and over and over...each physician specialty practice medicine within their specialty....same how dentist do..

If internal medicine doctors cant or feel its out of their comfort zone to treat a patient, they will refer the pt to a specialist...and that specialist practice the same old medicine that they usually use in their specialty....just like how dentist practice medicine within their scope...

And last...im sure dentist can say the same thing...very few MD/DO can even pass our boards without studying...because you physicians how no clue how to perform dental surgery..
 
I think you misinterpreted what he meant. When he said it was "all the medicine" he didn't mean "all the medical knowledge" he meant all the medical process. As in taking a symptomatic patient and then diagnosing their disease. And as a dentist, unlike most non surgical physicians, we can then perform the procedure to remove that disease.

Our scope of treated pathology is most definetely very narrow, but being the one that both diagnoses and operates is not typical as a physician, where as dentists do it everyday.

In dental school we are giving regional anesthesia, shaping bone, suturing, etc by our second year. In med school you're still learning to take blood pressures and a proper history and physical (I believe...correct me if I'm wrong).

Or maybe I misinterpreted him and he's just a bit loony...either way...

Diagnose and do surgery is something not a lot of physicians can do...very true. Dentist all the way! Lol sorry, i was laughing when u said second year dental students do all these procedures while second year med students are learning to take bp lol
 
Lets be honest here, residency is not schooling...it is a ned grad physician who is practicing their specialty under supervision of a doctor...in residency, they get PAID, medical and dental insurance, sick pay, vacation paid days, supplied meals when on call lol and etc... now if you consider residency "schooling" then shoooooooootttttt i will accept more schooling..

With dentistry, you can go out and make 120k/year working 40 hours a week, which translate to $60/hour. So working normal hours and getting great pay. You can also get started on your life after 4 years of dental school.

With medicine, you go to a residency where you get paid 50k/year, working 80+ hours a week, which translates to roughly $15/hour. So working like a dog and getting horrible pay. In a sense, it is schooling, since it is mandatory to complete residency before practicing. They give you a small stipend to cover living costs and interest on your huge student loans.

Even accounting for the benefits for medical residencies, if you think working as a dentist and being a medical resident are identical, then.....

tumblr_lrvzb74ShK1qfu4tho1_400.jpg
 
I think you misinterpreted what he meant. When he said it was "all the medicine" he didn't mean "all the medical knowledge" he meant all the medical process. As in taking a symptomatic patient and then diagnosing their disease. And as a dentist, unlike most non surgical physicians, we can then perform the procedure to remove that disease.

Our scope of treated pathology is most definetely very narrow, but being the one that both diagnoses and operates is not typical as a physician, where as dentists do it everyday.

In dental school we are giving regional anesthesia, shaping bone, suturing, etc by our second year. In med school you're still learning to take blood pressures and a proper history and physical (I believe...correct me if I'm wrong).

Or maybe I misinterpreted him and he's just a bit loony...either way...

Diagnose and do surgery is something not a lot of physicians can do...very true. Dentist all the way! Lol sorry, i was laughing when u said second year dental students do all these procedures while second year med students are learning to take bp lol
 
With dentistry, you can go out and make 120k/year working 40 hours a week, which translate to $60/hour. So working normal hours and getting great pay. You can also get started on your life after 4 years of dental school.

With medicine, you go to a residency where you get paid 50k/year, working 80+ hours a week, which translates to roughly $15/hour. So working like a dog and getting horrible pay. In a sense, it is schooling, since it is mandatory to complete residency before practicing. They give you a small stipend to cover living costs and interest on your huge student loans.

Even accounting for the benefits for medical residencies, if you think working as a dentist and being a medical resident are identical, then.....

tumblr_lrvzb74ShK1qfu4tho1_400.jpg

One of my friend is doing his residency for pathology...he does NOT work 80 hours a week... he gets close to 50,000 a year including all medical and dental benefits and etc...he works less than 55 hours a week man. It all depends where you do your residency at. You are doing 80 hours a week probably for anesthesia, surgery and etc...in a sense, its not schooling...when do you ever hear about someone going to school and getting paid?? Like my friend in residency, he can pay for his house and even got himself a nice car...thats schooling?? Residency is like a new hire in training...u r working, not studying.
 
One of my friend is doing his residency for pathology...he does NOT work 80 hours a week... he gets close to 50,000 a year including all medical and dental benefits and etc...he works less than 55 hours a week man. It all depends where you do your residency at. You are doing 80 hours a week probably for anesthesia, surgery and etc...in a sense, its not schooling...when do you ever hear about someone going to school and getting paid?? Like my friend in residency, he can pay for his house and even got himself a nice car...thats schooling?? Residency is like a new hire in training...u r working, not studying.

No matter how you slice it, MDs always earn less per hour than DDS. What does that mean? Your MD is pulling in 500K but working 70 hrs per week while your DDS is working 40 hr a week and pulling in 150K. I'd rather work smarter than harder. After 200K it doesnt matter how much you earn. You can only sleep in one bed at a time, in one vacation home at time, drive one ferrari at a time 🙂 having an extra house and car doesnt equate to happiness and working 70 hours a week while you miss out on your kids little league game will decrease overall happiness and long term satisfaction.
 
One of my friend is doing his residency for pathology...he does NOT work 80 hours a week... he gets close to 50,000 a year including all medical and dental benefits and etc...he works less than 55 hours a week man. It all depends where you do your residency at. You are doing 80 hours a week probably for anesthesia, surgery and etc...in a sense, its not schooling...when do you ever hear about someone going to school and getting paid?? Like my friend in residency, he can pay for his house and even got himself a nice car...thats schooling?? Residency is like a new hire in training...u r working, not studying.

Though your friend may only work 55 hours a week, that is still a TON of time to only be making 40k-50k and he would be the exception, not the rule. All doctors I have talked to said they did 80+ hours a week and even though they made new laws to only ALLOW 80 hours a week it is broken on a regular basis. and to say you can live nicely off 40k-50k a year for four years while paying off students loans and a house and car is crazy
 
Though your friend may only work 55 hours a week, that is still a TON of time to only be making 40k-50k and he would be the exception, not the rule. All doctors I have talked to said they did 80+ hours a week and even though they made new laws to only ALLOW 80 hours a week it is broken on a regular basis. and to say you can live nicely off 40k-50k a year for four years while paying off students loans and a house and car is crazy

The GP residency I was in was paid, 45k a year (plus free unlimited hospital caf food yo!) with benefits. I deferred my loan payments for a year. I'm single. I lived very well. I lived in the nicest apartments in town, my work hours were less than 40 hours a week. Idk, it was pretty Cush to be honest. I know it depends on the program...but it was pretty nice. Def didn't feel like a student scrounging anymore. And my non-healthcare friends for the most part are only making 35-60k...and most of them have UG loans.

I don't know if I had a point.
 
How is 500K for 70hr/wk less per hour than 150K for 40 hr/wk? Seems like some interesting math. Dentistry offers you immediate earning power and many lifestyle benefits. However, many of you are exaggerating the number of hours MDs work. Residency sucks for almost everyone, but only in certain surgical fields do people work 70+ hours once they are out practicing.

Ophthalmology, Derm, Radiology, Rad Onc, Pathology, Peds and Anesthesia all offer a lifestyle that isn't that much different than dentistry and many of those fields offer significantly higher long term earning potential than dentistry. While I don't have data, I would also suspect that Radiology, Anesthesiology, Derm, RadOnc, Cardiology, ENT, Ortho and Plastics all make significantly more per hour than dentists (not including owners of multiple practices/chains etc). Of course thats why those fields are hard to get into.

Since this has become a largely financial discussion, I would encourage prospective dentists/physicians to pay attention to the big picture. Dentistry offers immediate earning potential, good lifestyle and likely a stable income as you are more insulated from government interference. Physicians must go through a difficult residency, but over a 40 year career you will significantly out earn most dentists. That said, physician reimbursement is labile and it is unclear what it will be like in the future. The specialties I mentioned above could all be the lowest earning ones in 10 years.

Most MDs work long hours thats a fact. Most residencies you mentioned are nearly impossible to get into and most MDs dont perform those residencies. DDS insurance pays a lot better than MD. MD income will shrink in the next 10 years due to Obamacare. I made a math mistake in my example, but the point is clear you can work harder or smarter. MDs will outearn DDS, I did mention this, but at what cost? I'd rather spend time with my kids than write up charts to make another 250K a year, which I probably wont have time to spend anyway. 🙂 golden handcuffs are cute in movies like Wall Street. I'd rather have a nice lifestyle and get to enjoy my family. I can't take my money with me to grave and neither can anyone else.
 
Your whole post comes off as a bit arrogant. Being a medical doctor is a great job with alot of intangables. It requires alot of effort, time spent training, and the people who enter this field will never stop learning. All of these things are a huge plus for some.

You've pointed out some of the challenges of MD but I dont think you're being honest about how stressful it is to be a dentist.

Being a dentist may not require as many hours as some medical doctors but when you factor in the fact that you're running a small business + working 36-40 hrs per week I think you'll find that there is a huge overlap between dentists and doctors work hours. Not to mention I feel like alot of patients are much more respectful of their surgeon or ER physician during a surgery or AMI VS. their dentist suggesting that they need a crown or a night guard.

Both are good fields. The cognitive dissonance you're showing is alarming.

I think two real complaints that physicians should make are that they should receive payment in full up front for most of their services; and malpractice suites are out of control. Other than that I dont see a huge difference between dentistry and medicine.


Most MDs work long hours thats a fact. Most residencies you mentioned are nearly impossible to get into and most MDs dont perform those residencies. DDS insurance pays a lot better than MD. MD income will shrink in the next 10 years due to Obamacare. I made a math mistake in my example, but the point is clear you can work harder or smarter. MDs will outearn DDS, I did mention this, but at what cost? I'd rather spend time with my kids than write up charts to make another 250K a year, which I probably wont have time to spend anyway. 🙂 golden handcuffs are cute in movies like Wall Street. I'd rather have a nice lifestyle and get to enjoy my family. I can't take my money with me to grave and neither can anyone else.
 
I think two real complaints that physicians should make are that they should receive payment in full up front for most of their services; and malpractice suites are out of control. Other than that I dont see a huge difference between dentistry and medicine.
Not getting paid enough is problem being an MD. I have a lot of respect for the MD guys. They work harder than me. They are a lot smarter than me. Their undergrad GPA was a lot higher than mine. And in order to get accepted to med schools, many of them had to spend countless hours in volunteer services at some hospitals. I didn't have to do any of these and I was still able to get accepted to my state dental school. The physicians don't get paid enough for all the hard work they went through (8 years after high school + 3-6 years of residency). And when they get out, they get screwed by the insurance companies and the new healthcare law. This is the reason why nearly 50% of the primary care physicians want to leave the profession (source: http://articles.cnn.com/2008-11-17/...icare-patients-medicaid-patients?_s=PM:HEALTH).

Last month, my friend's dad got admitted to the hospital for liver stone removal surgery. The entire surgical procedure took 15 hours (12 hours beyond the original estimated time). I feel really bad for the surgeon and the anesthesiologist who worked on this case. I also feel bad for the wives and kids of these doctors.

I usually tell kids (my nieces, nephews, my patients etc) who want to be a dentist/orthodontist that "being smart and hard working in school (HS/college) do not necessarily guarantee financial success and happiness in life but picking the right profession does". In my opinion, going into dentistry is a wiser choice than going into medicine. I am glad that I weren't smart enough for med school. Despite the rise in college and dental school tuition, I still hope that my son will follow my footstep when he grows up.
 
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Since this has become a largely financial discussion, I would encourage prospective dentists/physicians to pay attention to the big picture. Dentistry offers immediate earning potential, good lifestyle and likely a stable income as you are more insulated from government interference. Physicians must go through a difficult residency, but over a 40 year career you will significantly out earn most dentists. That said, physician reimbursement is labile and it is unclear what it will be like in the future. The specialties I mentioned above could all be the lowest earning ones in 10 years.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. Are you comparing GPs with general dentists because I think you're comparing specialties like Derm, ENT, Rad, orth, etc, to general dentistry. Those competitive specialties should be compared with dental specialties (ortho, perio, omfs, etc).

Let's assume you're comparing GPs and GDs. I really want to know how you came to the conclusion that GPs "significantly" out earn most dentists. What data are you using? Obviously it's going to fluctuate on an individual basis but according to the ADA, most GDs with a private practice make around $192k. After checking various websites, most solo GP practices showed numbers between 190-200k depending on the site. I'm also willing to argue that those general dentists worked fewer hours than the GPs. In addition, both those numbers are probably higher than what's reported since I'm guessing many private practice owners in both fields do not report a chunk of their earnings.

Making 10k more while working 10 more hours a week doesn't count as earning significantly more. This topic has been beaten to death.
 
Its really a sad mess with the MDs. Too much governmental influence and you get a pile of inefficient garbage. The government is one giant conflict of interest serving itself first and that is why Dentistry is so attractive nowadays. I had a vascular surgeon tell me to go to dental school. Also on a related note, I have two friends in my optometry school that got into DO school but instead went to my school because they knew they were almost guaranteed to be dumped into a primary care residency.

Alternate health careers are IN right now and dental is leading the way. Optometrists are trying to emulate the dental model with the vision insurance and the subjugation of ophthalmologists. But it is going to be way harder 🙂 Do you guys know about stomatology? And how dentistry took the specialty over? Some countries still have stomatologists as an M.D. specialty: www.med.muni.cz/dokumenty/doc/stomatology.doc
 
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. Are you comparing GPs with general dentists because I think you're comparing specialties like Derm, ENT, Rad, orth, etc, to general dentistry. Those competitive specialties should be compared with dental specialties (ortho, perio, omfs, etc).

Yeah, completely agree. You could put oral surgeons against any professional career out there and it wins against almost anything. The guys with a large referral base who are doing nothing but wizzies and implants...the money is absolutely astounding.
 
Though your friend may only work 55 hours a week, that is still a TON of time to only be making 40k-50k and he would be the exception, not the rule. All doctors I have talked to said they did 80+ hours a week and even though they made new laws to only ALLOW 80 hours a week it is broken on a regular basis. and to say you can live nicely off 40k-50k a year for four years while paying off students loans and a house and car is crazy

My friend who is a path resident rarely works more than 50 hours week...and he pulls 48,000 a year..he is in his first year btw. Im not saying all residency have it good like my friend but you and everyone else make it seem like all or most residents work 80+ hours a week..thats not true..like i said, it depends on your specialty. I feel like you and most med students make residency sound soooooooo crazy because you want physicians to appear as they suffer like crazy during residency so people can be like wooooooooooooowwwwww pay respect to the physicians because they have to go through "residency".... i respect physcians a lot but i hate when people make it sound like residency is "more schooling" because i have several friends in residency that disagree with that...
 
Your whole post comes off as a bit arrogant. Being a medical doctor is a great job with alot of intangables. It requires alot of effort, time spent training, and the people who enter this field will never stop learning. All of these things are a huge plus for some.

You've pointed out some of the challenges of MD but I dont think you're being honest about how stressful it is to be a dentist.

Being a dentist may not require as many hours as some medical doctors but when you factor in the fact that you're running a small business + working 36-40 hrs per week I think you'll find that there is a huge overlap between dentists and doctors work hours. Not to mention I feel like alot of patients are much more respectful of their surgeon or ER physician during a surgery or AMI VS. their dentist suggesting that they need a crown or a night guard.

Both are good fields. The cognitive dissonance you're showing is alarming.

I think two real complaints that physicians should make are that they should receive payment in full up front for most of their services; and malpractice suites are out of control. Other than that I dont see a huge difference between dentistry and medicine.

I'm being honest and describing basics facts about what I see as good or bad about physicians. I dont care about the respect of absolute strangers, my patients will appreciate my services because I will ultimately relieve their of pain. I like dentistry more on many levels, the rate per hour is and always will be higher and I will earn enough to be happy. Just because you aren't sure about MD or DDS, dont stick your finger in my face.
 
I really believe dentistry is the best....i have so much respect for physicians. But there are so much things i hate about practicing as a physician...its not because of the job duties of a physician...i hate how insurance companies never want to pay for anything, the new healthcare form that all insurance will pay based on medicare fee schedule (which is really low), people always wanting to sue physicians for every little thing, attorneys having commercials advertising to people if you have suffered from ____________ medication, call attorney blah blah...malpractice rates are so high, 60-70 hours a week and etc...i catch myself wanting to be a physicians sometimes because its nice to help people...its a really good feeling to help treat patients using medicine but when i think of all the bad things i stated above, i quickly switch to dentistry....since i love to help diagnose and treat patients but not deal with all the bs...dentistry is the way to go. Ever seen a patient with severe infection in the gums or severe tooth pain? Its nice to know i can diagnose the disease, perform surgery myself to treat the problem and practice dental medicine...dentistry has it all.
 
Medicine is a great profession. My god parents and their children are all in medicine--as for me I chose dentistry. I just enjoy what I do. I would have enjoyed medicine as well but I didn't apply to medical school. As for money goes. I find that dentist do quite well and so do physicians. One benefit for the MD is that you have many options and an MD with an imagination will do well because the MD offers you the ability to market yourself much better in "medicine" than the DDS. I know some DDS are trying botox in their practice but you have to make an argument to the public that you are just as much capable than the MD's. Take home message: both are good fields and it comes down to personal preference. You will save lives in both fields..trust me. As far as money goes? Well I will show you a cool link.

http://www.abstractsonline.com/Plan...126&mKey=BA8AA154-A9B9-41F9-91A7-F4A4CB050945
 
Medicine is a great profession. My god parents and their children are all in medicine--as for me I chose dentistry. I just enjoy what I do. I would have enjoyed medicine as well but I didn't apply to medical school. As for money goes. I find that dentist do quite well and so do physicians. One benefit for the MD is that you have many options and an MD with an imagination will do well because the MD offers you the ability to market yourself much better in "medicine" than the DDS. I know some DDS are trying botox in their practice but you have to make an argument to the public that you are just as much capable than the MD's. Take home message: both are good fields and it comes down to personal preference. You will save lives in both fields..trust me. As far as money goes? Well I will show you a cool link.

http://www.abstractsonline.com/Plan...126&mKey=BA8AA154-A9B9-41F9-91A7-F4A4CB050945

This information is flawed. Lawyers will not outearn dentists in the next 30 years. that's a fact.
 
I’m going to wager that Charles Tweed graduated from dental school some time ago. To get into dental school these days, you do need to volunteer hundreds of hours, you do need good grades, and you do need high test scores. It is very competitive now and to be successful at the application process requires that you decide which path you want to take early enough to devote the time necessary to be a competitive applicant. The debate about which is easier to get into or whose exams are tougher isn’t relevant. You have to be smart to get into med and dental school, you have to be smart to get through med and dental school, and you have to be smart to learn what you need to in order to be good at your job. Careers in both of these avenues of the healthcare field pay well, but if you’re looking to make a gazillion dollars, go into investment banking. The more relevant question for your longterm happiness is how you want to spend your days when you are out of school and actually working.

Your day-in day-out job as a physician will vary greatly depending on what area of medicine you practice in. You could be doing anything from autopsies to placing breast implants to brain surgery to “walking around handing out hypertension and UTI meds” (as my physician described her job to me). The realities of what each of those specific jobs entail are very different.

As a dentist, you have to like working with your hands (not necessarily true for physicians). You have to enjoy doing things that require multiple detailed steps done very meticulously (not necessarily true for physicians). You have to have a good eye for shapes and contours (not usually true for physicians). You have to be able to think like an engineer, assess directions of forces, and understand how biological processes and your restorative materials will react to those forces (not necessarily true for physicians). You have to be able to remember a huge amount of information for diagnostics and administering/ prescribing meds (also very true for physicians, and to an even greater degree). You have to be a people person (may or may not be true for physicians- depends on how much you need to rely on repeat business). Dentistry draws from a lot of different types of thought processes at once- you have to be a scientist, an artist, an engineer, a psychologist. This makes the job very intellectually stimulating. Diagnostics is a huge part of dentistry, but you also have to competently and physically DO something about your diagnosis, such as wielding a 400,000 RPM drill in someone’s mouth, working within measurements of a fraction of a millimeter, then fabricating a mini-sculpture that looks and functions like a natural tooth and will last for years. It can be stressful- some find the level of precision required very rewarding, others could find it tedious.

As a dentist, you will not save someone’s life in the ER room, you will not deliver a baby, you will not set broken arms, and you will have MD’s inform you on occasion that you are not a “real” doctor, as smart as they are, or as talented as they are... As a dentist, you will be very involved in the overall health of your patient and will save lives through detection of multiple diseases you’ll see in your patients, such as CVD and oral cancers. Realistically, most MDs aren’t spending their days saving lives in the ER either, but some are and dentists never will be, so if that’s what you believe would make your life worthwhile, go to medical school.

However, disregard anyone who says that you should go into medicine and not dentistry if you’re interested in helping people. Two huge aspects of what dentists do is relieve people from debilitating pain and improve quality of life through improving esthetics. Repairing some unsightly decay or misshapen teeth may not sound that important to some people, but for the person that’s had difficulty getting a job, meeting a life partner, being comfortable in social situations, etc, being able to smile confidently is a life changer. If you’ve spent any amount of time doing dentistry, you’ve seen people in tears thanking you for getting them out of horrible pain or helping them smile without feeling embarrassed. That feels pretty rewarding to me.
 
If you’ve spent any amount of time doing dentistry, you’ve seen people in tears thanking you for getting them out of horrible pain or helping them smile without feeling embarrassed. That feels pretty rewarding to me.

One of the better posts I've seen from a pre-dent in a long time.
 
I’m going to wager that Charles Tweed graduated from dental school some time ago. To get into dental school these days, you do need to volunteer hundreds of hours, you do need good grades, and you do need high test scores. It is very competitive now and to be successful at the application process requires that you decide which path you want to take early enough to devote the time necessary to be a competitive applicant. The debate about which is easier to get into or whose exams are tougher isn’t relevant. You have to be smart to get into med and dental school, you have to be smart to get through med and dental school, and you have to be smart to learn what you need to in order to be good at your job. Careers in both of these avenues of the healthcare field pay well, but if you’re looking to make a gazillion dollars, go into investment banking. The more relevant question for your longterm happiness is how you want to spend your days when you are out of school and working.

Wow quite a post. Heh, made me feel like a hero just for being a dentist. This guy should run for president of the ADA. 😀
 
I’m going to wager that Charles Tweed graduated from dental school some time ago. To get into dental school these days, you do need to volunteer hundreds of hours, you do need good grades, and you do need high test scores. It is very competitive now and to be successful at the application process requires that you decide which path you want to take early enough to devote the time necessary to be a competitive applicant. The debate about which is easier to get into or whose exams are tougher isn’t relevant. You have to be smart to get into med and dental school, you have to be smart to get through med and dental school, and you have to be smart to learn what you need to in order to be good at your job. Careers in both of these avenues of the healthcare field pay well, but if you’re looking to make a gazillion dollars, go into investment banking. The more relevant question for your longterm happiness is how you want to spend your days when you are out of school and actually working.

Your day-in day-out job as a physician will vary greatly depending on what area of medicine you practice in. You could be doing anything from autopsies to placing breast implants to brain surgery to “walking around handing out hypertension and UTI meds” (as my physician described her job to me). The realities of what each of those specific jobs entail are very different.

As a dentist, you have to like working with your hands (not necessarily true for physicians). You have to enjoy doing things that require multiple detailed steps done very meticulously (not necessarily true for physicians). You have to have a good eye for shapes and contours (not usually true for physicians). You have to be able to think like an engineer, assess directions of forces, and understand how biological processes and your restorative materials will react to those forces (not necessarily true for physicians). You have to be able to remember a huge amount of information for diagnostics and administering/ prescribing meds (also very true for physicians, and to an even greater degree). You have to be a people person (may or may not be true for physicians- depends on how much you need to rely on repeat business). Dentistry draws from a lot of different types of thought processes at once- you have to be a scientist, an artist, an engineer, a psychologist. This makes the job very intellectually stimulating. Diagnostics is a huge part of dentistry, but you also have to competently and physically DO something about your diagnosis, such as wielding a 400,000 RPM drill in someone’s mouth, working within measurements of a fraction of a millimeter, then fabricating a mini-sculpture that looks and functions like a natural tooth and will last for years. It can be stressful- some find the level of precision required very rewarding, others could find it tedious.

As a dentist, you will not save someone’s life in the ER room, you will not deliver a baby, you will not set broken arms, and you will have MD’s inform you on occasion that you are not a “real” doctor, as smart as they are, or as talented as they are... As a dentist, you will be very involved in the overall health of your patient and will save lives through detection of multiple diseases you’ll see in your patients, such as CVD and oral cancers. Realistically, most MDs aren’t spending their days saving lives in the ER either, but some are and dentists never will be, so if that’s what you believe would make your life worthwhile, go to medical school.

However, disregard anyone who says that you should go into medicine and not dentistry if you’re interested in helping people. Two huge aspects of what dentists do is relieve people from debilitating pain and improve quality of life through improving esthetics. Repairing some unsightly decay or misshapen teeth may not sound that important to some people, but for the person that’s had difficulty getting a job, meeting a life partner, being comfortable in social situations, etc, being able to smile confidently is a life changer. If you’ve spent any amount of time doing dentistry, you’ve seen people in tears thanking you for getting them out of horrible pain or helping them smile without feeling embarrassed. That feels pretty rewarding to me.

Wooowwww, nicely said man! I like how you mention how rewarding it is to relieve a patient's pain..nice post!
 
Repairing some unsightly decay or misshapen teeth may not sound that important to some people, but for the person that's had difficulty getting a job, meeting a life partner, being comfortable in social situations, etc, being able to smile confidently is a life changer. If you've spent any amount of time doing dentistry, you've seen people in tears thanking you for getting them out of horrible pain or helping them smile without feeling embarrassed. That feels pretty rewarding to me.

One of my most potent memories shadowing really hit on this very thing. So much so that I even centered my personal statement around it.

Long story (literally) short, a 19 or 20 year old girl came into the OMFS office when I was shadowing (it was also my b-day!) to have her remaining maxillary teeth extracted. Her GD was there to fit a denture immediately after the surgery. This poor girl was a heavy meth user, so I'm sure you can imagine what her teeth looked like. She was obviously very self conscious about it, and with good reason. After the surgery and denture fitting, we handed her a mirror to see her new teeth. When she saw her new teeth for the first time, she broke down crying, but she was smiling the whole time. She started crying, smiling, crying some more, and smiling some more. You really could see the joy in her eyes as she was on the way to a new smile. That memory really impacts me... Just saying lol
 
I thought it about it.. but Dentist lifestyle > Physician lifestyle and that's why I am pre-dent now..

I made a thread about this topic linked in my sig. Check it out

you realize as a physician you can work as little as you want and as much as you want right?

those guys who work 70 hours a week CHOOSE to do that. i know physicians that work 40 hours a week. it all depends what you want.
 
One of the better posts I've seen from a pre-dent in a long time.

I'm actually a dental student now. I just never got around to changing my status.

I think a lot of time is spent discussing the money and hours spent on the job, but not enough time is spent discussing what the job actually entails. As a pre-dent, I didn't really understand how all-encompassing dentistry is. You can watch it being done for hundreds of hours while shadowing or volunteering (I even worked as an assistant for a while before d-school) but still not comprehend the knowledge base and skill sets it demands to do the job well. Until you've actually sat in the chair and done dentistry, it's tough to grasp the thought processes it requires.
 
you realize as a physician you can work as little as you want and as much as you want right?

those guys who work 70 hours a week CHOOSE to do that. i know physicians that work 40 hours a week. it all depends what you want.

That's true, but the surgeons and what not who do work 70 hours usually have to in order to stay competitive and continue getting referrals...and family physicians have to work longer hours to maintain salary

Of course there are exceptions on both sides but the trends haven't changed in 15 years with physicians putting in significantly more hours/week than dentists
 
you realize as a physician you can work as little as you want and as much as you want right?

those guys who work 70 hours a week CHOOSE to do that. i know physicians that work 40 hours a week. it all depends what you want.

I think you are referring to pathologist...they work 40 hours a week BUT all they do is stare at a microscope all day long with no patient interaction, no treatment plan...just diagnosing. People dont consider pathologist as "real" doctors though...im sure there are a few physicians that work 40 hours a week but it's rare to see...they must be a pathologist..
 
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