Didn't match... what to do for next year now??

[luckyt66]

Hello everyone! Will appreciate any feedback. What can I do to improve my application for this following year? (Don't want to waste any time and want to hit the ground running as I am sure September will be here before I know it)

About me:
Scores: 224 on Step 1, 230, Step 2; Pass on CS; all on first try.
LORs- 3 when first submitting app: 1 was out-of-the-world, another one was really solid, and the third (from a pediatrician) was decent, but probably not great; however, I did add a 4th letter in mid-November as it was another Fantastic letter (although not sure how many programs saw the added letter)
PS: hard for me to judge, probably nothing fantastic, but I got good feedback overall, and I think it made it very clear that I wanted to truly do psych
Clerkship grades: A+/Honors in Psych; A- in OB/GYN; B in rest 🙁
Research/Publications: None
Red Flags: 1) IMG (as I am realizing after not matching this season and a PD telling me that I was excellent and could not have interviewed better... and most of the people ranked higher were AMGs) 2) Didn't match this year.. 3) Took a few months break during 3rd year as I got in car accident and had to obtain proper medical care

Had 10 interviews this year, and ranked 9 (1 was outside the match), but didn't match- was SHOCKED to say the least (especially since I conveyed immense interest to my top 3 and all were very reciprocative and receptive back). Anyways, don't want to cry over spilt milk- just trying to realize why it spilt... and what I can change and work on in next 6 months?! (I'm sure I'm probably leaving some important stuff out- please let me know and ask, and I will provide it 🙂

Thank you, appreciate anyone's 2 cents!

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[thxleave]

I didn't match in Psych also. Going to just apply FM next year. Heard Psych was fierce this year

 

[OldPsychDoc]

1--The one thing you don't mention is how broad a range of programs your interviews were with. Your profile compares nicely to many of those we interviewed (mid-rangish community-oriented program). How much did you limit yourself regionally?

2--Here's the hard part--if you really want an improved application, you should use this year to get 1-2 really excellent letters in the region you plan to target for applications. Do something to show that you really want psych and will be a great resident and clinician. You had a great psych clerkship, presumably with the out-of-the-world letter coming from that. Go back to that attending and say "Hey, unfortunately I didn't match. Do you have any suggestions of what I could do this year? Do you have a friend who could use an excellent rotator who wants to keep his clinical skills sharp? Do you know of any jobs here in your area that might help me build my CV for the next cycle? Most of us want to help.

3--Take and pass Step 3. It will put you one small step ahead of next year's pack of Caribbean grads.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

Selection committee conversation:

PD: “OK, so this IMG has slightly more positive letters and a nice observership from somewhere else, and this one has all of the steps completed.”
Everyone else in the meeting: “Take the guy with step III”.

Now an observership from a program you want can make a large difference in that particular program, but there are other ways to show your interest in psychiatry. Completing step III can go a long way to forgiving low step I and II scores.

It looks like psychiatry will remain IMG welcoming to a certain crust of IMG performers, but this will narrow some and there may be other more likely specialties as time goes on. I know that this doesn’t sound particularly good if you are still in your undergraduate medical education, but it is good for the field of psychiatry and for you if you do what you need to do to get in. You could argue about the unfair practice of favoring some types of schools above others, but PDs do use objective measures that include scores and extracurriculars in addition to rotation performance. The key is to stand out in good ways and not to stand out in bad ways.

 

[luckyt66]

1--The one thing you don't mention is how broad a range of programs your interviews were with. Your profile compares nicely to many of those we interviewed (mid-rangish community-oriented program). How much did you limit yourself regionally?

2--Here's the hard part--if you really want an improved application, you should use this year to get 1-2 really excellent letters in the region you plan to target for applications. Do something to show that you really want psych and will be a great resident and clinician. You had a great psych clerkship, presumably with the out-of-the-world letter coming from that. Go back to that attending and say "Hey, unfortunately I didn't match. Do you have any suggestions of what I could do this year? Do you have a friend who could use an excellent rotator who wants to keep his clinical skills sharp? Do you know of any jobs here in your area that might help me build my CV for the next cycle? Most of us want to help.

3--Take and pass Step 3. It will put you one small step ahead of next year's pack of Caribbean grads.

1) I applied to 92 programs; didn't apply out west further than Ohio/Illinois/Indiana/Texas, but I thought this was a sufficient amount of programs to apply to- applied widely along the East coast and mostly to programs where I saw had IMGs in them and where people from my school got accepted before.. More specifically, the programs I interviewed were at- 1)Medical College of Georgia 2)uConn 3) Penn State 4)Baystate Medical Center 5)Maimonides 6) Albany Medical Center 7) Case Western (Metrohealth) 8) Citrus Health Network 9) Mather Hospital/Stony Brook (only had a phone conversation here- not official interview)

2) Get 1-2 letters from Observerships/Externships?? I know some IMGs who do that (moreso ones who have done medical school and rotations abroad), but to what extent do you think that would help me if I did my 2 years of clinicals in the US, including 5 psych electives in my 4th year? My core clerkship wasn't that organized actually, my 2 original psych letters (and the one I added later in the season) were all from electives. (does that hurt if you don't have any LORs from your cores?).
Also, on the topic of my CV- I think it was average, and it didn't have much from 2012 onwards (was in med school from fall 2011 till now). However, I don't think it had anything that was specifically tilted or showed interest in psych. Any suggestions on things I can do to add to my CV to show commitment to psych??

3) Step 3 is definitely on the anvil and will be taking it end of May.

Thanks again, really appreciate the advice!

 

[luckyt66]

Selection committee conversation:

PD: “OK, so this IMG has slightly more positive letters and a nice observership from somewhere else, and this one has all of the steps completed.”
Everyone else in the meeting: “Take the guy with step III”.

Now an observership from a program you want can make a large difference in that particular program, but there are other ways to show your interest in psychiatry. Completing step III can go a long way to forgiving low step I and II scores.

It looks like psychiatry will remain IMG welcoming to a certain crust of IMG performers, but this will narrow some and there may be other more likely specialties as time goes on. I know that this doesn’t sound particularly good if you are still in your undergraduate medical education, but it is good for the field of psychiatry and for you if you do what you need to do to get in. You could argue about the unfair practice of favoring some types of schools above others, but PDs do use objective measures that include scores and extracurriculars in addition to rotation performance. The key is to stand out in good ways and not to stand out in bad ways.

So step 3 is the first step (no pun intended 😛) I intend taking to improve my application for next year; Will take it in May once I get my ECFMG Certification. So I am glad to hear Step 3 as a major heavyweight to improve my application (although I think my step 1 and 2 scores were decently competitive for Psych). Anything else specific you see in my application that I could improve or work on?? Maybe something in the form of extracurriculars to show dedication to the field of psych?

 

[Blitz2006]

1) I applied to 92 programs; didn't apply out west further than Ohio/Illinois/Indiana/Texas, but I thought this was a sufficient amount of programs to apply to- applied widely along the East coast and mostly to programs where I saw had IMGs in them and where people from my school got accepted before.. More specifically, the programs I interviewed were at- 1)Medical College of Georgia 2)uConn 3) Penn State 4)Baystate Medical Center 5)Maimonides 6) Albany Medical Center 7) Case Western (Metrohealth) 8) Citrus Health Network 9) Mather Hospital/Stony Brook (only had a phone conversation here- not official interview)

2) Get 1-2 letters from Observerships/Externships?? I know some IMGs who do that (moreso ones who have done medical school and rotations abroad), but to what extent do you think that would help me if I did my 2 years of clinicals in the US, including 5 psych electives in my 4th year? My core clerkship wasn't that organized actually, my 2 original psych letters (and the one I added later in the season) were all from electives. (does that hurt if you don't have any LORs from your cores?).
Also, on the topic of my CV- I think it was average, and it didn't have much from 2012 onwards (was in med school from fall 2011 till now). However, I don't think it had anything that was specifically tilted or showed interest in psych. Any suggestions on things I can do to add to my CV to show commitment to psych??

3) Step 3 is definitely on the anvil and will be taking it end of May.

Thanks again, really appreciate the advice!

Sorry to hear you didn't match. I'm a bit surprised actually. Your stats are solid and you interviewed at some decent university programs.

The good news is I think you have a good chance of matching next year if:

1) step 3. Step 3. Step 3.

2) publish a quick case report or a small review. You have 6 months until ERAS opens, lots of time. I know tons of IMGs that run around, spend thousands of dollars on externships/observership, but I'm not sure how helpful it is. Especially since you are a carribean grad. If you do a case report or a review, this alone shows initition, commitment and dedication to the field of psychiatry.

But I dunno, with 9 interviews maybe you also need to practice answering interview questions? I suspect your Achilles heel is interviewing, since the rest of your app sounds solid.

Good luck,

 

[flower power mike]

Red Flags: 3) Took a few months break during 3rd year as I got in car accident and had to obtain proper medical care

How the **** is this a red flag? One moment of bad luck that wasn't your fault means you don't deserve a residency spot?

If any premeds are reading this, don't go into medicine. It will ruin your life. You'll spend 8 years busting your ass while all your friends are out having fun and starting families just to have residencies spit on you because you got hit by a drunk driver one day on the way to class.

 

[luckyt66]

How the **** is this a red flag? One moment of bad luck that wasn't your fault means you don't deserve a residency spot?

If any premeds are reading this, don't go into medicine. It will ruin your life. You'll spend 8 years busting your ass while all your friends are out having fun and starting families just to have residencies spit on you because you got hit by a drunk driver one day on the way to class.

It's a completely valid excuse, and every interviewer dismissed or disregarded it after I gave a quick explanation, BUT the problem is I am sure it prevented me from getting some interviews as I heard some places use "any time off or gap in education" as a filter, regardless of when, why, etc. It's a easy filter (along with scores or whatever other filters different program use) and many will not look deeper into a "break" taken before offering and interview due to number of applicants). Unfair. I know. What to do.

 

[luckyt66]

2--Here's the hard part--if you really want an improved application, you should use this year to get 1-2 really excellent letters in the region you plan to target for applications. Do something to show that you really want psych and will be a great resident and clinician. You had a great psych clerkship, presumably with the out-of-the-world letter coming from that. Go back to that attending and say "Hey, unfortunately I didn't match. Do you have any suggestions of what I could do this year? Do you have a friend who could use an excellent rotator who wants to keep his clinical skills sharp? Do you know of any jobs here in your area that might help me build my CV for the next cycle? Most of us want to help.

So I just found out that my school offers an option for 8 additional weeks of clinical experience (free tuition) for those unmatched. I was thinking about doing 4 weeks each at an affiliation that has a psychiatry residency (assuming it should help me at least get an interview at each place). Good/efficient idea?? (And although I think my psych letters were pretty strong, I could also get another stronger LOR depending on how immersive of an experience I have there)

 

[OldPsychDoc]

So I just found out that my school offers an option for 8 additional weeks of clinical experience (free tuition) for those unmatched. I was thinking about doing 4 weeks each at an affiliation that has a psychiatry residency (assuming it should help me at least get an interview at each place). Good/efficient idea?? (And although I think my psych letters were pretty strong, I could also get another stronger LOR depending on how immersive of an experience I have there)

Reasonable idea.

 

[thxleave]

You from SGU also? Damn this year was cold to IMG in psych world.

 

[luckyt66]

You from SGU also? Damn this year was cold to IMG in psych world.

Yup. You?

 

[thxleave]

Yup. You?

Yep. Similar stats. Had 12 invite, 10 interviews. 12 ranked, 10 Psych, and 2 FM interviews.

Thought I was a social weirdo for a whole week till I saw DOs and USIMGs not matching psych on forum with similar interviews. Still gonna try to improve interview skills but does dampen the blow.

 

[tickytacky]

This was me last year but with lower scores, also a carib grad, and I
1.) Took step 3
2.) Shadowed at outpatient psych clinic in my hometown (cited lack of exposure to outpatient psych as my motivation in interviews).
3.) Shadowed at family medicine clinic to get an LOR so I could apply to FM as a backup
4.) Got a part time job in psych, I can message you specifics

and most importantly, agonized over my past interviews. You have to accept that you majorly screwed up in some way and it's your job in the next year to figure out how. What are you conveying or not conveying that made them rank someone higher than you? I took a cue from the FMG heavy residency forum I frequent and practiced interviews and honed my answers to obsession, those guys and gals know struggle. Think of yourself as a politician, if you're not saying something that advances your image you're hurting yourself. It's a different ball game for IMGs, be glad you're still a recent grad, no attempts and a US citizen.
Bewilderingly, I matched at my #1 this year, laughed like hell.
(that ends my infomercial)

 

[luckyt66]

Hi guys, one update- So I found out that my school allows us the opportunity to do a few extra weeks of clinical work for free if we want; and I was thinking of doing a 4-week audition elective at U Maryland Sheppard Pratt. I was thinking of several benefits such as potentially getting an LOR, showing that I am continuing to get clinical experience even after I finished med school, but my primary intention was thinking of it hopefully helping me get an interview there (assuming exceptional performance of course).. And with one or two people from my school matching there every year, I thought this could be a well-calculated move. What are people's opinion on this? And anyone specifically done at elective at sheppard pratt before have anything to add?

Any input appreciated as always. Thanks!

 

[BigB651987]

This was me last year but with lower scores, also a carib grad, and I
1.) Took step 3
2.) Shadowed at outpatient psych clinic in my hometown (cited lack of exposure to outpatient psych as my motivation in interviews).
3.) Shadowed at family medicine clinic to get an LOR so I could apply to FM as a backup
4.) Got a part time job in psych, I can message you specifics

and most importantly, agonized over my past interviews. You have to accept that you majorly screwed up in some way and it's your job in the next year to figure out how. What are you conveying or not conveying that made them rank someone higher than you? I took a cue from the FMG heavy residency forum I frequent and practiced interviews and honed my answers to obsession, those guys and gals know struggle. Think of yourself as a politician, if you're not saying something that advances your image you're hurting yourself. It's a different ball game for IMGs, be glad you're still a recent grad, no attempts and a US citizen.
Bewilderingly, I matched at my #1 this year, laughed like hell.
(that ends my infomercial)

I'm a SGU 2016 grad who didn't match psych either. US citizen, Passed all steps first time ok Step1/2 scores around 220s, I feel like my main issues were my interviewing skills, not doing a good job at selling myself. I also made the huge mistake of not applying broadly enough, I applied to around 60 programs and really wanted to match in NY. Do you have any tips on how to improve interviewing skills? how to better sell yourself to programs?

My plan is pretty similar to what you did, take step 3, spend time at an outpatient psych clinic and a fam med clinic as well in order to get updated LORs. What type of part time job in psych did you do?

If you have any tips for how to best prepare from Step 3 I would love to get some advice as well. Sorry for all the questions 🙂

 

[thxleave]

So it seems like 3 SGU grads with 220's-230's did not match into Psychiatry so far.

That's just the ones that post. I saw an AUC girl and a DO that post here post on NRMP SOAP thread.

 

[thxleave]

I'm a SGU 2016 grad who didn't match psych either. US citizen, Passed all steps first time ok Step1/2 scores around 220s, I feel like my main issues were my interviewing skills, not doing a good job at selling myself. I also made the huge mistake of not applying broadly enough, I applied to around 60 programs and really wanted to match in NY. Do you have any tips on how to improve interviewing skills? how to better sell yourself to programs?

My plan is pretty similar to what you did, take step 3, spend time at an outpatient psych clinic and a fam med clinic as well in order to get updated LORs. What type of part time job in psych did you do?

If you have any tips for how to best prepare from Step 3 I would love to get some advice as well. Sorry for all the questions 🙂

Hey how many interviews did you get though with those 60 apps? Just trying to get a census about how competitive my app was on paper or it was all interview skills that flopped. I applied to 100 to get 12 interviews

 

[BigB651987]

Hey how many interviews did you get though with those 60 apps? Just trying to get a census about how competitive my app was on paper or it was all interview skills that flopped. I applied to 100 to get 12 interviews

I had 6 IV's with one being a pre-match interview

 

[thxleave]

I had 6 IV's with one being a pre-match interview

So you got the same amount of returns, about 10 apps for 1 interview. Man I think it was my interview skills too, but seeing all these people posting on Psychiatry with this many interviews and no match, kinda points to it being competitive also. You don't see this type of stuff on FM, IM, and Peds forums. Do anyone know what they are going to do during gap year yet?

So far it seems like Step 3 is a necessity. Curious how bad it will look if I just took Step 3 and work at my old job again before medical school? Do I really need research? MPH/MBA seems useless. Don't know why that looks better in a gap year, instead of working and getting a real job to pay bills.