difference between a DO and a MD

[cubicw86]

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Can anyone tell me the difference between a DO and a MD?

 

[Terpskins99]

Nomenclature. Depends on what part of the country you're in.

 

[grinchick5]

Nomenclature? Depends on who you ask. I’m sure some still think there are significant philosophical differences.

Here’s some standard, party-line info on DOs.

http://www.osteopathic.org/index.cfm?PageID=ost_main

 

[63768]

in the US, DOs are

1) taught a whole body or holistic approach to medicine (which i think MDs do anyway)
2) osteopathic manipulative medicine (OMM) which is correcting musculoskeletal problems that may be causing other ailments. i'm not completely sure i'm right on this, but i am in the postbac program at TCOM and this is what i've heard
3) DOs are big in certain parts of the country and nonexistent in other parts so some places think of DOs as equal to MDs, and other places may have a bias towards MDs.
4) because of the limited number and scope of osteopathic residencies, most DO students have to apply to both allopathic and osteopathic residencies, which involves taking both the USMLE and COMLEX.

being a DO is a slight disadvantage in terms of applying to allo residencies, but as more DOs are being produced, the stigma is disappearing.

now in a country like the UK, i think DOs are akin to chiropractors.

 

[Taty]

Look at pre-DO forum you will find lots of info there.

 

[Taus]

http://www.studentdoctor.net/do/mdordo.asp

 

[CatsandCradles]

Can anyone tell me the difference between a DO and a MD?

MD = Lexus
DO = Toyota

 

[spicedmanna]

Can anyone tell me the difference between a DO and a MD?

You mean in theory or in practice? Go observe both. Then, if you still don't know, read the FAQ sticky in the Pre-DO forum.

 

[The_Sensei]

MD = Lexus
DO = Toyota

False...

 

[J ROD]

Initials of perceived supremacy!

They both are physicians, but MDs are better standardized test takers.

Also, there is also some kind of philosophical difference, which I really question is real anymore for why students do one over the other. Personally, I believe it is a way for the DOs to feel better if they are not good at taking the MCAT. If there is this huge philosophical difference, then why does everyone with a questionable MCAT score apply to both I know?

Not to fan the flame and get the DOs all in a frenzied state. It is something I have noticed from several friends that have applied to both. The DO schools were always back up until they did not get accepted to the MD schools and to the DO schools. Then, they were preaching the philosophical differences and how they really did not want to go to MD school anyway. It was their parents pushing them that way.

I say whatever. You still are a physician. A MD only helps you get a residency better and you do not have to explain the initials to the general population. Just be happy if you get into either one because many would settle for either initials!

 

[DragonWell]

now in a country like the UK, i think DOs are akin to chiropractors.

British DO and American DO are best thought of as completely different degrees, although they share similar historical roots. DOs in America have 4 years of medical education plus residency and a scope of practice equivalent to MDs, while British trained DOs only learn the musculoskeletal aspects of osteopathy - ie. the manipulation. So, an American DO in Britain has full medical privileges, while a British DO in America will have a scope of practice similar to a Chiropractor.

Confusing?...you bet.

 

[sgglaze]

British DO and American DO are best thought of as completely different degrees, although they share similar historical roots. DOs in America have 4 years of medical education plus residency and a scope of practice equivalent to MDs, while British trained DOs only learn the musculoskeletal aspects of osteopathy - ie. the manipulation. So, an American DO in Britain has full medical privileges, while a British DO in America will have a scope of practice similar to a Chiropractor.

Confusing?...you bet.

I believe that recently (within the past few months) American trained DOs were given full rights to practice within the same scope as an MD.

 

[DragonWell]

I believe that recently (within the past few months) American trained DOs were given full rights to practice within the same scope as an MD.

British DO and American DO are best thought of as completely different degrees, although they share similar historical roots. DOs in America have 4 years of medical education plus residency and a scope of practice equivalent to MDs, while British trained DOs only learn the musculoskeletal aspects of osteopathy - ie. the manipulation. So, an American DO in Britain has full medical privileges, while a British DO in America will have a scope of practice similar to a Chiropractor.

Confusing?...you bet.

Uh, that was kind of my point. Not well communicated I guess.

 

[Krisss17]

Initials of perceived supremacy!

They both are physicians, but MDs are better standardized test takers.

Also, there is also some kind of philosophical difference, which I really question is real anymore for why students do one over the other. Personally, I believe it is a way for the DOs to feel better if they are not good at taking the MCAT. If there is this huge philosophical difference, then why does everyone with a questionable MCAT score apply to both I know?

Not to fan the flame and get the DOs all in a frenzied state. It is something I have noticed from several friends that have applied to both. The DO schools were always back up until they did not get accepted to the MD schools and to the DO schools. Then, they were preaching the philosophical differences and how they really did not want to go to MD school anyway. It was their parents pushing them that way.

I say whatever. You still are a physician. A MD only helps you get a residency better and you do not have to explain the initials to the general population. Just be happy if you get into either one because many would settle for either initials!

😕 😕 😕 This has me so flabbergast, I don't know how to start other than saying that this is a load of crap. MDs are better at standardized tests? Says who? While yes, there may be some students that can't make it into allopathic schools, but I bet that a large portion of those students also won't make it into osteopathic schools either.

I have nothing against students who want to go for their MDs, but there are many people on this very board that are choosing DO, not because of their fear of not getting into an allopathic school, but because they either embrace the philosphy or they just want to be a physician and are not overly concerned of their initials. I, personally, see a DO has having a more open mind and willing to include the patient in their own health care.

I'm sorry, but this really burned me.

Krisss17

 

[ShyRem]

Both are physicians. Neither degree confers the distinction of making anyone a "better" physician than the other - that's up to the individual. MD focuses more on biochem (from what I hear their biochem is KILLER). DO has biochem (personally our class could have been better - except the genetics. That was AWESOME), but DO also has OMM. That being said, did you know Harvard offers a short course on the basics of OMM to MDs????? Apparently it's VERY popular.

OMM. Some think it's a sham. Some swear by it. I can honestly say that I knew nothing about it before I came to school. So. I have this muscle spasm problem in my shoulder... and I discover that rather than go on muscle relaxants for 2 or 3 weeks to break it, I can get it manipulated away in about 10 minutes. hm. My daughter broke her collarbone and has a 50 degree angle in it now. As a result, one scapula has sat higher than the other and she used her shoulders differently from one side to the other. Two OMM sessions and her scapulae are equal, her shoulders are level, and she has equal range of motion. hmm. Yes, she did PT. Sham? Seems to work for us for certain things. Would I trust it to "cure CF" as I've heard purported? No. But I do think it could help with some of the muscular issues from working to breathe.

I think DOs can offer a distinct service that can bypass some of the medications that MDs offer. However, I don't think that either set of initials makes a better doctor than the other. I've seen bad DOs and I've seen bad MDs. I've also seen great both and mediocre both.

So, the difference you ask? Letters behind their name. Nothing else.

 

[Tired Pigeon]

😕 😕 😕 This has me so flabbergast, I don't know how to start other than saying that this is a load of crap. MDs are better at standardized tests? Says who? While yes, there may be some students that can't make it into allopathic schools, but I bet that a large portion of those students also won't make it into osteopathic schools either.

I have nothing against students who want to go for their MDs, but there are many people on this very board that are choosing DO, not because of their fear of not getting into an allopathic school, but because they either embrace the philosphy or they just want to be a physician and are not overly concerned of their initials. I, personally, see a DO has having a more open mind and willing to include the patient in their own health care.

I'm sorry, but this really burned me.

Krisss17

I don't want to start a war here, but why does there seem to be such defensiveness from the DO crowd? If this is the path you want to pursue, why feel like you have to justify it and prove it's what you 'really wanted to do'?

Also, I have a problem with the blanket assertion that DO's are more "willing to include the patient in their own health care." This is a tired stereotype, and just as annoying as, "DO's are just people who couldn't get into allopathic med school."

 

[docem]

I don't want to start a war here, but why does there seem to be such defensiveness from the DO crowd? If this is the path you want to pursue, why feel like you have to justify it and prove it's what you 'really wanted to do'?

Also, I have a problem with the blanket assertion that DO's are more "willing to include the patient in their own health care." This is a tired stereotype, and just as annoying as, "DO's are just people who couldn't get into allopathic med school."

I agree with you that people can be overly defensive. However, if you read any of the MD v. DO threads they get so freaking nasty, I wonder why I come back to this site. I also agree...bedside skills are not different because you have different initials behind your name - it about what kind of doctor you want to be.

Also more DOs tend to go into primary care and DO schools put a focus on primary care.

 

[sunnyjohn]

I don't want to start a war here, but why does there seem to be such defensiveness from the DO crowd? If this is the path you want to pursue, why feel like you have to justify it and prove it's what you 'really wanted to do'?

Also, I have a problem with the blanket assertion that DO's are more "willing to include the patient in their own health care." This is a tired stereotype, and just as annoying as, "DO's are just people who couldn't get into allopathic med school."

We're tired of playing nice and getting ho' slapped. The gloves have gotta come off!!! Justify? Naw, I'm to dang old and too dern beautiful for that.... But if anyone wants to continue to play the same tune, I'm sure as heck gonna dance!

*Sunny pulling out nunchucks* 😛

(PS- this was not an attack on the person I quoted.)

 

[winthug]

Getting into a DO school is less competitive than an MD school. Not that the MCAT really determines if you'd be a good doctor, but I've seen students get into DO with pretty low MCAT scores. Had they applied to MD, they'd probably never stand a chance. Would you want your doctor to admit to you that they got a really bad MCAT score? I don't know about you guys, but I'd like to believe that the doctors that have treated me did very well in on their tests and in school. At the same token, most veteran doctors wouldn't be able to get into an MD school if they had to reapply with their old application cuz med school has gotten SO competitive and SO much harder to get into. In the long run, there probably isn't any huge difference once one starts practicing with a DO or MD, but it's like mp3 players. There are probably a lot of players that are less expensive yet equally as good as the Ipod, but you just gotta get that $400 IPod Video just because its an Ipod.

 

[ShyRem]

In the long run, there probably isn't any huge difference once one starts practicing with a DO or MD, but it's like mp3 players. There are probably a lot of players that are less expensive yet equally as good as the Ipod, but you just gotta get that $400 IPod Video just because its an Ipod.

I don't know about you, but I'm pretty darn happy with my $198 mp3/video player. And it's not an iPOD. That's like saying you have to have the BMW just because it's a BMW.

Guess I'm just not as pretentious as some folks. I'd rather find something that is a good fit for me regardless of the name brand or the cost (as long as it's safe and works well).

 

[resxn]

about 0.5 GPA
about 5-10 points on the MCAT
about 10 points of IQ
and about a billion in ego

 

[gotmeds?]

about 0.5 GPA
about 5-10 points on the MCAT
about 10 points of IQ
and about a billion in ego

I think I get what you're saying, but from the way it's written, it sounds like you're calling DOs stupid and MDs egotistical. I'm guessing you meant to give the extra IQ points to the DOs, but from the way you have it written next to the GPA and MCAT scores, it looks like you're just bashing both types of doctors.

 

[spicedmanna]

Getting into a DO school is less competitive than an MD school. Not that the MCAT really determines if you'd be a good doctor, but I've seen students get into DO with pretty low MCAT scores. Had they applied to MD, they'd probably never stand a chance. Would you want your doctor to admit to you that they got a really bad MCAT score? I don't know about you guys, but I'd like to believe that the doctors that have treated me did very well in on their tests and in school. At the same token, most veteran doctors wouldn't be able to get into an MD school if they had to reapply with their old application cuz med school has gotten SO competitive and SO much harder to get into. In the long run, there probably isn't any huge difference once one starts practicing with a DO or MD, but it's like mp3 players. There are probably a lot of players that are less expensive yet equally as good as the Ipod, but you just gotta get that $400 IPod Video just because its an Ipod.

Nah. I don't want an IPod. They look nice and all, but I'm pretty happy with my Creative MuVo N200. It holds plenty of music for my needs right now, works like a champ, and was significantly less expensive. If I upgrade, it'll be for the additional storage space and better quality, not because of it's brand.

Also, I don't really give a rat's ass what my doctor's MCAT score was, just as I don't care what school they went to, what their undergraduate GPA was, or what brand of corn flakes they ate for breakfast. What I want is for them to treat me well, be my healthcare advocate, and help me get better.

 

[bruce wayne]

😕 😕 😕 This has me so flabbergast, I don't know how to start other than saying that this is a load of crap. MDs are better at standardized tests? Says who? While yes, there may be some students that can't make it into allopathic schools, but I bet that a large portion of those students also won't make it into osteopathic schools either.

I have nothing against students who want to go for their MDs, but there are many people on this very board that are choosing DO, not because of their fear of not getting into an allopathic school, but because they either embrace the philosphy or they just want to be a physician and are not overly concerned of their initials. I, personally, see a DO has having a more open mind and willing to include the patient in their own health care.

I'm sorry, but this really burned me.

Krisss17

Both are physicians. Neither degree confers the distinction of making anyone a "better" physician than the other - that's up to the individual. MD focuses more on biochem (from what I hear their biochem is KILLER). DO has biochem (personally our class could have been better - except the genetics. That was AWESOME), but DO also has OMM. That being said, did you know Harvard offers a short course on the basics of OMM to MDs????? Apparently it's VERY popular.

OMM. Some think it's a sham. Some swear by it. I can honestly say that I knew nothing about it before I came to school. So. I have this muscle spasm problem in my shoulder... and I discover that rather than go on muscle relaxants for 2 or 3 weeks to break it, I can get it manipulated away in about 10 minutes. hm. My daughter broke her collarbone and has a 50 degree angle in it now. As a result, one scapula has sat higher than the other and she used her shoulders differently from one side to the other. Two OMM sessions and her scapulae are equal, her shoulders are level, and she has equal range of motion. hmm. Yes, she did PT. Sham? Seems to work for us for certain things. Would I trust it to "cure CF" as I've heard purported? No. But I do think it could help with some of the muscular issues from working to breathe.

I think DOs can offer a distinct service that can bypass some of the medications that MDs offer. However, I don't think that either set of initials makes a better doctor than the other. I've seen bad DOs and I've seen bad MDs. I've also seen great both and mediocre both.

So, the difference you ask? Letters behind their name. Nothing else.

Very well said. I am applying for the 2007 year and have gotten into both MD and DO schools. I have gotten into some pretty good programs, and seriously considered schools such as UVA or UPENN, but I've whittled my picks to PCOM or VCOM. They are too many gunners out there that are going into medicine for the wrong reasons. Frankly, I don't like being around them. I've never understood people's issues over MD vs DO. As things get evolve from the issues that forced the split of "modern medicine" oh so many years ago into a separate degrees, I would wager money they will one day merge again as the human body and all of its conditions are figured out in their entirety. The Flu of 1918 showed that methods employed by DOs saved more lives than the practices of MDs of the day, but now they share the same methodology. I think they should have just one degree anyway, and get rid of both designations in favor of something new that shows how the science behind the medicine is the same and places emphasis on people. Hmmm, both are "Physicians"... (can't think of anything witty at the moment! )

Anyway, I plan on working in underserved areas in the US and abroad, and will get 2 board certs. (internal and general surg). As long as I have a roof over my head, food, and people to meet that will benefit from my skills, I'll be a happy camper!

 

[resxn]

Anyway, I plan on working in underserved areas in the US and abroad, and will get 2 board certs. (internal and general surg). As long as I have a roof over my head, food, and people to meet that will benefit from my skills, I'll be a happy camper!

I will pay money to hear if you followed through with all of that, particularly the bold. Board certified in IM and Surgery? You must have a split personality. That's like working for the IRS and Enron at the same time. Your brain can't handle the ethical conflict. You'll spontaneously combust.

I will still pay for the chance to hear from you that you pulled it off. And I would applaud (and pity) you.

 

[group_theory]

Would you want your doctor to admit to you that they got a really bad MCAT score? I don't know about you guys, but I'd like to believe that the doctors that have treated me did very well in on their tests and in school.

Me personally, i don't care if my doctor got a few questions wrong on the MCAT in regards to calculating electricity generated by a copper ball dragged by a space shuttle in the earth's atmosphere, or how to properly use the Hardy-Weinberg Equilibrium equation.

I would prefer my doctor actually survive 4 years of medical school, residency, all 3 parts of the medical licensing exam, pass the tough board certification (specialty), have no pending actions by the state board, and ideally be a fellow at an esteem college specialty (FACP, FACS, FACC, etc)


The differences are not that big. Sometimes I wonder if people get the impression that DOs are people who received "special education" while in school, ride the short bus to clinical rotation, and the specialty certification exam was based on matching the patient's picture to the name.

Average total GPA of entering DO students in 2003: 3.45
Average total GPA of entering MD students in 2003: 3.62

Average MCAT Biological section for entering DO student in 2003: 8.51
Average MCAT Biological section for entering MD student in 2003: 10.2

Average MCAT Physical section for entering DO student in 2003: 7.99
Average MCAT Physical section for entering MD student in 2003: 9.9

Average MCAT Verbal section for entering DO student in 2003: 8.07
Average MCAT Verbal section for entering MD student in 2003: 9.5


Source: AACOM Annual Report on Osteopathic Education
Source: AAMC FACTS Table 9, MCAT Scores and GPA 1995-2006

 

[DocBR]

Getting into a DO school is less competitive than an MD school. Not that the MCAT really determines if you'd be a good doctor, but I've seen students get into DO with pretty low MCAT scores. Had they applied to MD, they'd probably never stand a chance. Would you want your doctor to admit to you that they got a really bad MCAT score? I don't know about you guys, but I'd like to believe that the doctors that have treated me did very well in on their tests and in school. At the same token, most veteran doctors wouldn't be able to get into an MD school if they had to reapply with their old application cuz med school has gotten SO competitive and SO much harder to get into. In the long run, there probably isn't any huge difference once one starts practicing with a DO or MD, but it's like mp3 players. There are probably a lot of players that are less expensive yet equally as good as the Ipod, but you just gotta get that $400 IPod Video just because its an Ipod.

I have had 3 ipods, each one has broken or the hard drive got mysteriously corrupted and music lost.

Remember how bestbuy offers that 25$ 3 year replacement on ipods?
Glad I bought that.

Anyway, when I was deciding which type of school to apply to, I asked 10 medical professionals (7MD, 2DO and 1DDS) the general response can be summed up in the words of one of the MDs: "Do you know who cares about the difference between DO and MD? Pre-meds. It stops there."

That is not to say there are not anti-DO people out there - but it is my experience, if you talk to them for about medicine for 5 minutes or so, you will realize their understanding of medicine comes from Doogie Howser and Grey's Anatomy.

 

[Gut Shot]

I have gotten into some pretty good programs, and seriously considered schools such as UVA or UPENN, but I've whittled my picks to PCOM or VCOM.

Thanks, I needed the laugh.

 

[bruce wayne]

I will pay money to hear if you followed through with all of that, particularly the bold. Board certified in IM and Surgery? You must have a split personality. That's like working for the IRS and Enron at the same time. Your brain can't handle the ethical conflict. You'll spontaneously combust.

I will still pay for the chance to hear from you that you pulled it off. And I would applaud (and pity) you.

My mentor has 3 board certs in different areas, is a woman, and has like 3 kids. If she is correct, she tells me she is one of only a few people in the country with board certs. Pretty cool 😀 Plus I'm a card carrying member of MENSA baby, and have a proven photographic memory. Learning = easy for me. I rarely studied in college and didn't even review for the MCAT.

Thanks, I needed the laugh.

How the hell is that funny? Is this that "gunner" mentality I love so much 🙄 ? Fact of the matter is I can go to pretty much any medical school I want. I applied to many different programs of varying pedigrees and I will go where I like the feeling of the campus and like the mentality of the other students. The info is the same regardless of the school I attend, and I've been told by many docs to just go where I like it, don't worry about the school. 🙂

 

[Gut Shot]

Plus I'm a card carrying member of MENSA baby, and have a proven photographic memory. Learning = easy for me. I rarely studied in college and didn't even review for the MCAT.)

The Gunner-Fearing Gunner... I love it! Don't ever change.😳

 

[bruce wayne]

The Gunner-Fearing Gunner... I love it! Don't ever change.😳

Haha, thanks man! Its more like Gunner-Avoiding Gunner 😛 You should try it! It rocks! Plus the women love it when your low key then bust out with the breakdown (of knowledge, haha). I'm just a happy person! I lived through a serious health problem and came out on top (instead of dying, LOL) During that time I read and studied and observed all these "wrongs" in society. I'm not religiously modivated, but personally and want to make the biggest impact on the lives of people. Someone once told me to make the biggest impact on your people, you need to be amongst your people. Thats me!

 

[resxn]

My mentor has 3 board certs in different areas, is a woman, and has like 3 kids. If she is correct, she tells me she is one of only a few people in the country with board certs. Pretty cool 😀 Plus I'm a card carrying member of MENSA baby, and have a proven photographic memory. Learning = easy for me. I rarely studied in college and didn't even review for the MCAT.

Fact of the matter is I can go to pretty much any medical school I want.

Oooooooo, Aaahhhhhhhhh. Perhaps we can just anoint you king of kings right now. I mean, MENSA, wow. Can't be too many docs smart enough to get in there.

And a "proven" photographic memory. Ouch. I'm sure that patient that needs that intubation before the retropharyngeal abscess suffocates him will be sure darn pleased you can remember what color blanky you slept on in kindergarten.

Also, sorry to shoot your mentor's words down, but there are more than a few with multiple board certifications. Just ask all the meds/peds people walking around. Or maybe every single surgeon who does a fellowship.

But, hey, I'm sure with your down-to-earth attitude, patients will flock to you. I myself bow to your superiorty.

 

[Wizard of Oz]

I will pay money to hear if you followed through with all of that, particularly the bold. Board certified in IM and Surgery? You must have a split personality. That's like working for the IRS and Enron at the same time. Your brain can't handle the ethical conflict. You'll spontaneously combust.

I will still pay for the chance to hear from you that you pulled it off. And I would applaud (and pity) you.

My mentor has 3 board certs in different areas, is a woman, and has like 3 kids. If she is correct, she tells me she is one of only a few people in the country with board certs.

What are the board certs? IM specialists are often boarded in IM and their specialty in five years. Surgery and IM is a different story because you'd be looking at seven-eight years.

DO vs. MD? The difference is between the ears of the person reading them. I'm not in the mood for a flamewar today. The biggest difference is probably the median cost of the training given the relative number of state-funded allo schools vs. state-funded osteo schools.

 

[QofQuimica]

Getting into a DO school is less competitive than an MD school. Not that the MCAT really determines if you'd be a good doctor, but I've seen students get into DO with pretty low MCAT scores. Had they applied to MD, they'd probably never stand a chance. Would you want your doctor to admit to you that they got a really bad MCAT score? I don't know about you guys, but I'd like to believe that the doctors that have treated me did very well in on their tests and in school. At the same token, most veteran doctors wouldn't be able to get into an MD school if they had to reapply with their old application cuz med school has gotten SO competitive and SO much harder to get into. In the long run, there probably isn't any huge difference once one starts practicing with a DO or MD, but it's like mp3 players. There are probably a lot of players that are less expensive yet equally as good as the Ipod, but you just gotta get that $400 IPod Video just because its an Ipod.

This is a ridiculous post. If someone got a "really bad" MCAT score, they wouldn't get into medical school at all. You're talking about the difference between people who have average MCAT scores (25ish) versus people who have high scores (30ish). A 24-25 is the fiftieth percentile on the MCAT. That's not a "really bad score." Considering that the pool of MCAT takers is already well above the average in intelligence and test-taking ability for the population in general, an average scoring MCAT taker would be a perfectly competent physician. It's not like you need to be a genius to be a physician anyway. What you do need is at least average intelligence and a whole lot of elbow grease. Oh, and it helps tremendously too if your head is not stuck too far up your derriere. 🙂

 

[QofQuimica]

I don't know about you, but I'm pretty darn happy with my $198 mp3/video player. And it's not an iPOD. That's like saying you have to have the BMW just because it's a BMW.

Guess I'm just not as pretentious as some folks. I'd rather find something that is a good fit for me regardless of the name brand or the cost (as long as it's safe and works well).

Agree. I don't own any kind of MP3 player at all. Nor do I own a car. So how are people supposed to judge what kind of doctor I'm going to be? 😱 😉

 

[bruce wayne]

Oooooooo, Aaahhhhhhhhh. Perhaps we can just anoint you king of kings right now. I mean, MENSA, wow. Can't be too many docs smart enough to get in there.

And a "proven" photographic memory. Ouch. I'm sure that patient that needs that intubation before the retropharyngeal abscess suffocates him will be sure darn pleased you can remember what color blanky you slept on in kindergarten.

Also, sorry to shoot your mentor's words down, but there are more than a few with multiple board certifications. Just ask all the meds/peds people walking around. Or maybe every single surgeon who does a fellowship.

But, hey, I'm sure with your down-to-earth attitude, patients will flock to you. I myself bow to your superiorty.

Can you read or are you just stupid? LOL Some people on SDN are just fixed on the notion that MDs are superior to DOs. If you read and saw the jist of this thread (and others like it), you will see this. The only point I was trying to make are there are people (many I'm sure) that just PREFER one over the other, or just like a certain school and don't really care about the letters after their name, like in my case. I have always been first in my class, scored fantastic on everything, and the "card carrying member of MENSA" comment was supposed to be comedic (I do have a card tho, haha 😛 ) I guess you lost your sense of humor!

And as far as my memory, I only say that its "proven" because I was tested as a kid. I memorized the entire "A" section of a phone book, and was able to recall any number a week later when the doc told me a name, or vice-versa. I could go on 😛 It comes in very handy when my recall time is next to nothing for anything I see or hear once. Some peope claim a photographic memory have no merit to make that claim and can't back it up.

Really I'm not trying to be obnoxious or anything, just once again making a point that some people that would rather attend osteopathic school versus allopathic. I haven't interviewed at a allopathic school where I liked it or felt at home.

I think you have brain envy, haha <--- another joke in case you missed it!

I never looked into see how many people have multiple board certs. I thought it was impressive. Plus I'm just figuring out this whole process thing know of residency etc.

I really have no clue why you are you bitter. Get laid or something! Have a drink! Be happy you are getting a medical education! I'm just very happy to be alive after once being considered "terminal" and now don't have that word connected with my name. Maybe if I didn't have a life changing experience I'd be more ohh i want MD, I'm going to make lots of $$, but the fact of matter is all I care about is going out there making an impact because I feel I have a second chance!

What are the board certs? IM specialists are often boarded in IM and their specialty in five years. Surgery and IM is a different story because you'd be looking at seven-eight years.

DO vs. MD? The difference is between the ears of the person reading them. I'm not in the mood for a flamewar today. The biggest difference is probably the median cost of the training given the relative number of state-funded allo schools vs. state-funded osteo schools.

IM , Surgery/Pediatric , Surgical Critical care

 

[Jack Daniel]

And as far as my memory, I only say that its "proven" because I was tested as a kid. I memorized the entire "A" section of a phone book, and was able to recall any number a week later when the doc told me a name, or vice-versa. I could go on 😛 It comes in very handy when my recall time is next to nothing for anything I see or hear once. Some peope claim a photographic memory have no merit to make that claim and can't back it up.

Actually, that's pretty cool. For the record, I'm impressed.

I could do this too, but it would have to be a really small town with only 5 or 6 people.

 

[Wizard of Oz]

Get laid or something!

IM , Surgery/Pediatric , Surgical Critical care

I'm trying, but it requires a willing participant...

That is an impressive set, looks like maybe ten years PGY? 😱

Definitely a broad expertise, but that much training would frighten me. I need to get these loans paid off before everybody runs out of money to pay their increasing health insurance premiums.

👍 to your mentor.

 

[resxn]

Can you read or are you just stupid?

Everything's relative, but I'd imagine to you it would be yes and yes.

I have always been first in my class, scored fantastic on everything, and the "card carrying member of MENSA" comment was supposed to be comedic (I do have a card tho, haha 😛 ) I guess you lost your sense of humor!

Chest thumping.

And as far as my memory, I only say that its "proven" because I was tested as a kid. I memorized the entire "A" section of a phone book, and was able to recall any number a week later when the doc told me a name, or vice-versa.

The reason for my sarcasm was not because of who you are or what you went through. Anyone who survived what it sounds like you did has every right to be happy and celebrate.

What I disdain, now as an attending, as a former resident, as a former med student, and at its worst as a former pre-med student is the chest thumping that goes on. All the "I'm the 2nd coming of medicine" that everyone with an IQ over 160 seems to believe.

There is sooooooooo much more to being a good doctor than having brains. I may have brain envy, that's for sure--I've never been accused of being Einstein's heir.

But I'll tell you this. A piece of advice passed on to me from the smartest doc I've ever met--a DO chief I had during my surgical internship who ended up going into a cardiothoracic fellowship (truly one of only a few). He told me and the other interns, "I really don't care how great of a genius you are. I don't really care if you're a *****. That won't matter during this year. I only want you to care about your patients. I'd 10x rather have you be a ***** who cares than a genius who doesn't."

If you count med school, I've been doing this medicine thing now for 12 years and I know what he said to be true. A callous genius is dangerous.

Get board certified in 30 specialties. Carry your MENSA card. Become a Chair at Johns Hopkins. Thump your chest all you want. What will make you a good physician is caring about who's in your office or in your OR and treating them like they're the 2nd coming.

I really have no clue why you are you bitter.

I'd disagree that the appropriate word is bitter, but regardless of semantics, now you know.

Please don't be the person who thumps their chest about all of their superior qualities. Personally, I'm amazed at the gifts people like you have. They're stunning and a blessing I wish more of us had.

But you'll make your mark by using your gifts rather than displaying them--whether on a forum or in person.

I guess I've shown my age and can be just brushed off as a "bitter" 33 year old fart. I by no means mean to imply I'm the greatest most caring doctor, certainly there are those better than me, but anyone with the gifts you have has the chance to really be special, not just a chest thumper. We already have too many of those.

 

[mikejames]

MD = Lexus
DO = Toyota

DO's make about more than $100,000 a year thats alot of money

 

[winthug]

Ok. The whole point of the MP3 player/iPod analogy is to state what many (or as it seems) pre-meds feel about DOs, that they are pretty much on par with MDs, but just having that MD name sounds better, like how saying, "i got a bmw" sounds better than "i got a lexus". For those who are saying, "My iPod crashed on me, or my Sony blah blah mp3 player works better", man you guys are analyzing this simple analogy WAY TOO DEEPLY. (next post will be, "BMW's suck! Mine had to be serviced after 3 months! Lexus is better" sigh...).

As for the MCAT differences, I don't know about you guys and I will get flamed for this statement probably, but even though 5 pts in the MCAT realistically isn't that significant, it's more about the effort most of the pre-meds have taken to raise that superficial score so it's 30ish. Getting into an allo school with a 25 is REALLY tough to do, but we all studied our arses off to get that 30ish score just to satisfy those damn ad com people. To get into med school with a 25 kinda feels like taking the easy route (yes, i know that some people studied very hard to get that score still). I really am glad for people who want to go to DO because they prefer Osteo over Allo. To people who are defending DOs who DON'T truly know the medical differences in Osteo/Allo, just stop.

 

[spicedmanna]

Ok. The whole point of the MP3 player/iPod analogy is to state what many (or as it seems) pre-meds feel about DOs, that they are pretty much on par with MDs, but just having that MD name sounds better, like how saying, "i got a bmw" sounds better than "i got a lexus".

Fine. I'm sure some pre-meds think that. As long as they are happy with what they've going after, and what they'll end up with, then it's perfectly cool by me. I'm not in the business of convincing anyone to go one way or another. Do the research, shadow, and make an informed and intelligent choice. To borrow your analogy, some of us actually like "Lexuses," after carefully examining our options and the Consumer Reports, etc. 😀

As for the MCAT differences, I don't know about you guys and I will get flamed for this statement probably, but even though 5 pts in the MCAT realistically isn't that significant, it's more about the effort most of the pre-meds have taken to raise that superficial score so it's 30ish. Getting into an allo school with a 25 is REALLY tough to do, but we all studied our arses off to get that 30ish score just to satisfy those damn ad com people. To get into med school with a 25 kinda feels like taking the easy route (yes, i know that some people studied very hard to get that score still).

I'm sure some pre-meds think that, too. If so, then they need do some growing up and take responsibility for their choice, despite the alleged and perceived difficulty that it entails, and stop whining. I applaud their determination, however, in achieving their goal.

 

[QofQuimica]

As for the MCAT differences, I don't know about you guys and I will get flamed for this statement probably, but even though 5 pts in the MCAT realistically isn't that significant, it's more about the effort most of the pre-meds have taken to raise that superficial score so it's 30ish. Getting into an allo school with a 25 is REALLY tough to do, but we all studied our arses off to get that 30ish score just to satisfy those damn ad com people. To get into med school with a 25 kinda feels like taking the easy route (yes, i know that some people studied very hard to get that score still). I really am glad for people who want to go to DO because they prefer Osteo over Allo. To people who are defending DOs who DON'T truly know the medical differences in Osteo/Allo, just stop.

That's just it: you can't tell how much effort someone put into studying based on his or her MCAT score. Yeah, studying more tends to correlate with a higher score, but it's only fair to compare the before and after for each individual. In other words, you can't compare your 35 to someone else's 25 and say that you must have worked ten points harder, whatever that would even mean. I've had students who busted their butts, retook the Kaplan course (and completed every d*** test in the library), and they couldn't break a 30 even after taking the real deal multiple times. But they started out with diagnostic scores in the low teens. So for them, getting up to the mid twenties was a major accomplishment, and they worked really hard to do it. You are rightly proud of having raised your score from a 7 to a 9 in VR. Well, a couple years ago I had two kids who both scored 14 on VR....cold, on their diagnostics, before studying one single day. You gonna sit there and tell me that those kids worked harder than you did for your 9? 😎

 

[DocBR]

For those who are saying, "My iPod crashed on me, or my Sony blah blah mp3 player works better", man you guys are analyzing this simple analogy WAY TOO DEEPLY.

Dude, the point of that analogy has not escaped me - I get the intended meaning. I was in response making the point that just because it is a MD/iPOD/BMW does not mean it is better or more reliable.

 

[bruce wayne]

Everything's relative, but I'd imagine to you it would be yes and yes.



Chest thumping.



The reason for my sarcasm was not because of who you are or what you went through. Anyone who survived what it sounds like you did has every right to be happy and celebrate.

What I disdain, now as an attending, as a former resident, as a former med student, and at its worst as a former pre-med student is the chest thumping that goes on. All the "I'm the 2nd coming of medicine" that everyone with an IQ over 160 seems to believe.

There is sooooooooo much more to being a good doctor than having brains. I may have brain envy, that's for sure--I've never been accused of being Einstein's heir.

But I'll tell you this. A piece of advice passed on to me from the smartest doc I've ever met--a DO chief I had during my surgical internship who ended up going into a cardiothoracic fellowship (truly one of only a few). He told me and the other interns, "I really don't care how great of a genius you are. I don't really care if you're a *****. That won't matter during this year. I only want you to care about your patients. I'd 10x rather have you be a ***** who cares than a genius who doesn't."

If you count med school, I've been doing this medicine thing now for 12 years and I know what he said to be true. A callous genius is dangerous.

Get board certified in 30 specialties. Carry your MENSA card. Become a Chair at Johns Hopkins. Thump your chest all you want. What will make you a good physician is caring about who's in your office or in your OR and treating them like they're the 2nd coming.



I'd disagree that the appropriate word is bitter, but regardless of semantics, now you know.

Please don't be the person who thumps their chest about all of their superior qualities. Personally, I'm amazed at the gifts people like you have. They're stunning and a blessing I wish more of us had.

But you'll make your mark by using your gifts rather than displaying them--whether on a forum or in person.

I guess I've shown my age and can be just brushed off as a "bitter" 33 year old fart. I by no means mean to imply I'm the greatest most caring doctor, certainly there are those better than me, but anyone with the gifts you have has the chance to really be special, not just a chest thumper. We already have too many of those.

I never implied that being a good doctor ONLY involves having brains, I just meant by posting some information about myself that not everyone who wants to become a physician and has strong credentials does not automatically default to getting an allopathic degree.

I actually never posted that info before (mensa, photographic memory), and only my closest friends know because alot of peers in the past tried to use me as a study guide and it got annoying. I never meant to "chest thump" and still don't think it appears I did so. *shrug*

As far as patient care, all I have been doing before this time is volunteering. I've taken care of 2 loved ones who passed away from cancer when noone wanted to have them in their home. I cleaned the beds when they "messed" in them, and held their hand when they finally took their last breath. Another separate time I was alone for Xmas, so I went down to a soup kitchen to help out and cheer people up. On an internship at a major hospital, I watched dozens of pts die and always tried to speak with pt families.

Please don't assume from one little posting that I have not thought about the patients and treating them as people. If I wanted to become that evil super genius you mentioned, then why am I not attending "ivy" medical school and saying I will cure cancer? I've said in other posts in this thread I'm attending a DO school I like, and want to be "amongst my people to make the biggest difference in their lives". I would never become a chair at John Hopkins. I just want 2 board certs so I can basically be 2 doctors in one. I also said that "women love it when your low key then bust out with the breakdown (of knowledge, haha)" because I am really laid back, I'm not a gunner, and people who act like they know it all piss me off too! I'm there with ya on that level! And I agree, a callous genius is dangerous. And their biggest weapon is a pen and a prescription pad!

I'm glad you are a good doctor and you have been doing this much longer than me and I do respect you for that. Its nice to hear that you are concerned foremost about patients. Rock on dude!

I really think you misunderstood the tone of my post, and its meaning (contribute to the MD vs DO debate). (Down side of just posting info on the web a suppose) Can't read body language or voice tone.

Its cool too that you have your beliefs and are in surgery? Correct me if I'm wrong. What are you looking to do?

 

[MJB]

I was "satisfied" with my "average" MCAT score considering I hadn't had a Physics or Biology class in 10 years and still have "chemo-brain" blocking out any knowledge I might have been able to attain while not studying my way through undergrad... 🙂

Best part about that silly MCAT score? As of August 1st, it means NOTHING...whether I got a 25 or a 35....once I matriculate, it means zilch.

Know what they call a person with a 25 on their MCAT once they finish Med School?

For the record...I have an iPod...a Nano for me and a Video for the wife..

Oh, and I drive a truck. 🙂

 

[Gut Shot]

That is an impressive set, looks like maybe ten years PGY?

At least. IM is 3 years, and if you go into surgery why bother taking the boards? Surgery is 5, ped surg and additional 1-2, critical care 1 more.

Bruce, if you're still reading this, more certs doesn't equal superior. You're better off doing one thing well than doing 3 things half assed.

So let's assume that you are the total package that you claim to be (I still have my doubts, but what the f*ck, this whole place is a playground for ******ation). You want to avoid gunners so you're willing to forgo an elite education in order to hang out at VCOM? A pissant school slapped together in the middle of nowhere? Think about it, you could be retracting for Michael Acker and instead you'll be dressing up for class in Blacksburg? Heading out for some really important rotations in places like Christiansburg, Giles, Galax and Roanoke? If that's your choice then you'll fall in line behind the great parade of brilliant thinkers who could barely tie their own shoes.

 

[Jack Daniel]

Bruce, if you're still reading this, more certs doesn't equal superior. You're better off doing one thing well than doing 3 things half assed.

👍

You want to avoid gunners so you're willing to forgo an elite education in order to hang out at VCOM? A pissant school slapped together in the middle of nowhere? Think about it, you could be retracting for Michael Acker and instead you'll be dressing up for class in Blacksburg? Heading out for some really important rotations in places like Christiansburg, Giles, Galax and Roanoke? If that's your choice then you'll fall in line behind the great parade of brilliant thinkers who could barely tie their own shoes.

👎

 

[Gut Shot]

👎

Very insightful. Thank you.

 

[Jack Daniel]

Very insightful. Thank you.

Well, sometimes I think brevity is better. I have a suspicion that few, if any, read responses longer than 2 lines.