difference between research and primary schools

[bbaek]

---

Members do not see this ad.

when i look at the rankings for us news' med school rankings, i always wondered what the real difference was in going to either school.

especially for someone who wants to be a general/cardiac surgeon, shouldn't ppl look more at research listed med schools rather than primary care?

and what exactly is the advantage of primary care med schools over research med schools?

 

[UseUrHeadFred]

I'm an undergraduate at Mizzou, one of the best primary care schools. I'll tell you what I know.

At a primary care medical school there are extensive resources for those who show interest in going into the primary care specialties. Here at Mizzou it's mostly family practice - specifically, rural care. The entire curriculum is set up to produce the best possible rural clinicians. The whole curriculum here at Mizzou is PBL. There is an absolute cap on 10 hours per week of lecture, and the professors almost never talk about their own particular research during these lectures. Early family medicine externships are not only available, but encouraged. There's a lot of specialized financial aid revolving around going into rural practice. There's even an integrated family practice residency where you can do your internship simultaneously with your fourth year.

So if you're wanting family practice or pediatrics you can't get a better deal. And while you can, naturally, choose your own specialty, the whole system is set up to encourage students to go into family practice.

 

[Iwy Em Hotep]

I'm at the UW School of Medicine, supposedly the best primary care school in the US.

Unfortunately, we don't really have a cap on lectures (I wish), so we generally have about 15 hours of lecture and 10 hours of lab a week. Some weeks have a lot of other things going on as well, so it all adds up to a 29 credit load schedule.

However, there is a huge emphasis on primary care here. It is expected that you will do preceptorships and rural experiences in primary care while you are here, and it is a requirement that you do (at least a few) clerkships away from Seattle during your clinical years. The professors are always on our case about being thoughtful and compassionate to the patients.

I think that my school might be a bad example though, since there is also a huge research aspect to it all, and we're inundated with research opportunities all the time.

Somehow, you must do it all. 🙂

 

[secretasianman]

wow.. i had no idea. why the heck should how much a school gets in research funding, or how good their research is, be any measure of how good a physician it can produce, and thus match its students into better residencies? this makes no sense! :[.

 

[skhichi]

The rankings for primary care are concerned primarily with peds, family practice, etc. If you want to do something more competitive or specialized like neuro or cardio you should not really base your school choice on the primary care rankings.

 

[BigRedPingpong]

Go to a research school if you wanna do surgery

when i look at the rankings for us news' med school rankings, i always wondered what the real difference was in going to either school.

especially for someone who wants to be a general/cardiac surgeon, shouldn't ppl look more at research listed med schools rather than primary care?

and what exactly is the advantage of primary care med schools over research med schools?

 

[Code Brown]

when i look at the rankings for us news' med school rankings, i always wondered what the real difference was in going to either school.

especially for someone who wants to be a general/cardiac surgeon, shouldn't ppl look more at research listed med schools rather than primary care?

and what exactly is the advantage of primary care med schools over research med schools?

That's the big problem. There should really be 3 types of rankings: research, primary care, and clinical. There is no list that ranks how well a school prepares clinicians, although this would probably be the most valuable one of the three.

 

[constructor]

yeah, georgetown is not a big research school at all, but on the other hand they're very impressive clinically.

 

[bbaek]

does primary care necessarily mean d.o.?

and research m.d.?

or am i completely off cause i don't still see the difference in what research really means and what primary care really means.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

does primary care necessarily mean d.o.?

and research m.d.?

or am i completely off cause i don't still see the difference in what research really means and what primary care really means.

No, primary care just indicates a large portion of the school's graduates goes into family practice, pediatrics, etc... the traditionally less specialized and lower paying specialties. Research rankings are based on how much money the school receives for conducting scientific investigations. Because research schools have the higher MCAT and GPAs and are seen to be harder to get into, the top research schools are what's considered "prestigious."

 

[bbaek]

ic, so whenever we talk about the top schools, we are most possibly referring to the research med schools that are listed on such lists as us news. correct?

 

[Pinkertinkle]

That is correct.

 

[The Remix]

That's the big problem. There should really be 3 types of rankings: research, primary care, and clinical. There is no list that ranks how well a school prepares clinicians, although this would probably be the most valuable one of the three.

I totally agree. Would you sign an online petition to US News for that?

 

[UseUrHeadFred]

How are you going to rank it, though? Are there any objective criteria?

 

[constructor]

how successful their students are in matching to the surgical specialties.

 

[UseUrHeadFred]

I don't equate "clinician" with "surgeon".

 

[constructor]

think about it... if you want to categorize by research, primary care, and clinical, it is implied that clinical is talking about surgery. research happens in both primary care and surgical specialties, so it's not really right to say go to a top research school if you want to get a top choice surgical residency (i used gtown as an example and it is a great one). the only thing that's really missing is what's complementary to primary care, and this is what the other person refers to as clinical.

 

[UseUrHeadFred]

But there are a lot of "clinical" specialties that aren't necessarily research-intensive and also aren't surgical specialties. For example, Dermatology is the hardest specialty to match in, it isn't always research-oriented, and isn't a surgical specialty. Radiology and Neurology are other examples.

You could say that those would be part of the "research" category, but I would argue that the majority of physicians in these specialties probably spend little time in an academic setting or a lab and a lot of their time treating patients.

And these guys aren't "primary care", by any means.

And again, I don't know how you'd rate them. Quantity doesn't necessarily mean quality, and any particular year the students could choose a different mix of specialties by chance alone.

 

[Fermata]

wow.. i had no idea. why the heck should how much a school gets in research funding, or how good their research is, be any measure of how good a physician it can produce, and thus match its students into better residencies? this makes no sense! :[.

It's a tool largely used by schools like Harvard to wave a little flag that's supposed to make them feel good about themselves.

Don't worry about rankings.

They only really matter if you have your heart set on the extremely competitive specialties or if you need a pedigree(which academic medicine sometimes requires).

 

[Fermata]

But there are a lot of "clinical" specialties that aren't necessarily research-intensive and also aren't surgical specialties. For example, Dermatology is the hardest specialty to match in, it isn't always research-oriented, and isn't a surgical specialty. Radiology and Neurology are other examples.

You could say that those would be part of the "research" category, but I would argue that the majority of physicians in these specialties probably spend little time in an academic setting or a lab and a lot of their time treating patients.

And these guys aren't "primary care", by any means.

And again, I don't know how you'd rate them. Quantity doesn't necessarily mean quality, and any particular year the students could choose a different mix of specialties by chance alone.

Ironically.......there is actually a lot of research done/being done in those fields. It's just that the private practice is so cush that many forego the option of becoming academics in those fields.

Dermpath, development of new rads tech, etc. all come to mind.

🙂

 

[UseUrHeadFred]

Ironically.......there is actually a lot of research done/being done in those fields. It's just that the private practice is so cush that many forego the option of becoming academics in those fields.

Dermpath, development of new rads tech, etc. all come to mind.

🙂

There is a lot of research being done, there's no question about that. But I think the people who engage in it are the exception rather than the norm. I would bet if you took a survey of, say, Dermatologists for instance, you're going to find out that less than 20% engage in any research whatsoever.

Being in academic institutions, we only see the ones who do. A disproportionate sample. So, if you want to become your average dermatologist, using the research rankings isn't necessarily the best way to go.

 

[Fermata]

There is a lot of research being done, there's no question about that. But I think the people who engage in it are the exception rather than the norm. I would bet if you took a survey of, say, Dermatologists for instance, you're going to find out that less than 20% engage in any research whatsoever.

Being in academic institutions, we only see the ones who do. A disproportionate sample. So, if you want to become your average dermatologist, using the research rankings isn't necessarily the best way to go.

You'd be surprised though.

Derm is actually a rather small field so the few you do see in academics do make a up a significant portion.

 

[UseUrHeadFred]

According to this survey, the average dermatologist spends less than 7 hours per week doing research related activites. For comparison, they also reported spending an average of 32.4 hours per week in direct patient contact and 9.4 hours per week doing administrative tasks.

About 23 reported that they work for an academic medical center or academic institution out of a sample of approximately 100.

This agrees with FREIDA statistics that state 19.3% of outgoing graduates intend to go into an academic position, either full-time or part-time.

 

[Fermata]

According to this survey, the average dermatologist spends less than 7 hours per week doing research related activites. For comparison, they also reported spending an average of 32.4 hours per week in direct patient contact and 9.4 hours per week doing administrative tasks.

About 23 reported that they work for an academic medical center or academic institution out of a sample of approximately 100.

This agrees with FREIDA statistics that state 19.3% of outgoing graduates intend to go into an academic position, either full-time or part-time.

What is amusing though is how many lie and mislead about wanting to become an academic to get a residency spot.
😀

I wonder what % that is. 😀

 

[skoaner]

You can't really base you're education at each school based on the rankings unless you are picking the school soleley for that reason. As such, each school is going to have its own strengths and weaknesses. You're best bet to pick the best school for what you are interested in is to find the school that either/or (depending on what your preference is) excells at promoting its students to matches (e.g. 4th year residency programs/postdoctoral fellowships) that are known to be good matches in the field you think you are most interested in. A world renowned molecular biological neurology program may not be very good at neurosurgery, but a great neurosurgery program may not know anything at all about molecular biology. Keep in mind though you may change your mind throughout your training in medical school and find something entirely different to strike your fancy.

 

[UseUrHeadFred]

What is amusing though is how many lie and mislead about wanting to become an academic to get a residency spot.
😀

I wonder what % that is. 😀

This is so true, so true.

It makes you wonder whether they're accidentally selecting for manipulative people.

 

[Fermata]

This is so true, so true.

It makes you wonder whether they're accidentally selecting for manipulative people.

I don't know.

It seems that all of this is a game.

You constantly have hoops to jump through.

Undergrad GPA ---> MCAT score ---> Med School interviews ---> Step I ---> Matching into Specialty ---> Intern year ---> Residency ---> Building a Practice.

In a lot of ways, the sacrifices for medicine don't really justify the payoff in the end. What I'm trying to say is that you need more than just financial interests to make it through that much BS.

 

[bbaek]

wow.. lots of good posts and good info... gonna bump it anyone else wants to see!