Difference of military branches

[mathlegend]

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What is the difference for doctors? I more or less know in general, but wondering if it's any different for doctors. Such as any difference in pay, living conditions, physical standards, etc.

And how do doctors gain rank in the military? And what kind of uniforms are worn?

Also in college, if I join ROTC, is it guaranteed that I can go to medical school and serve in the military after thats done with?

 

[del Sol DOHC]

What is the difference for doctors? I more or less know in general, but wondering if it's any different for doctors. Such as any difference in pay, living conditions, physical standards, etc.

And how do doctors gain rank in the military? And what kind of uniforms are worn?

Also in college, if I join ROTC, is it guaranteed that I can go to medical school and serve in the military after thats done with?

Your pay will be based on your rank, years in service, specialty, and where you are stationed. The branch of service you choose has nothing to do with it. Go here and here to calculate your pay before taxes. Each branch has its pros and cons.

Army: 👍 Largest medical department with most residency programs, least likely to have to do a General Medical Officer (GMO) tour before residency
👎 Longest deployments, many bases are in crappy locations

Navy: 👍 Most bases are good locations on the beach, opportunities to be assigned to the Marines (if you are into that), nice uniforms
👎 Most likely to have to do a GMO tour before residency

Air Force: 👍 Shortest deployments
👎 Least amount of residency programs (means you are likely to be forced into Flight Surgery, which does not involve surgery at all), Most Air Force docs on this board and the ones I've met are really disgruntled, uniforms make you look like a bus driver or airline pilot

People will tell you that the Air Force has the best standard of living for its troops, while the Army has the worst, but that really applies to the enlisted troops. Physicians have pretty much the same standard of living in all services. Physical standards are also about the same. Uniforms worn will depend on what branch you choose. Do a google or wikipedia search to see what they look like for each branch.

Rank is pretty much automatic for physicians in the military up to O-5. Just keep out of trouble and do any required military education courses.

As for ROTC, don't do it. There is no guarantee that they will let you go to medical school. They can make you serve 4 years as some other type of officer first. Plus, it adds more time to your commitment, assuming you are going to have the military pay for your medical school as well. If you end up hating it, and most do, you will have many more years of misery than if you had avoided ROTC.

 

[mathlegend]

Thanks for your help. What happens during a GMO tour? Is it like a deployment? What sorts of medicine would one be practicing? What do docs do during a deployment? Do they still work in military hospitals, or on the field in tents and stuff? And heh...bus driver xD

About how long does it take physicians to get to O-4, O-5, and how does one get to O-6 and higher?

Do doctors wear scrubs and stuff or are they always in uniform?

Thanks, I guess I probably won't be doing ROTC.

 

[del Sol DOHC]

Thanks for your help. What happens during a GMO tour? Is it like a deployment? What sorts of medicine would one be practicing? What do docs do during a deployment? Do they still work in military hospitals, or on the field in tents and stuff? And heh...bus driver xD

About how long does it take physicians to get to O-4, O-5, and how does one get to O-6 and higher?

Do doctors wear scrubs and stuff or are they always in uniform?

Thanks, I guess I probably won't be doing ROTC.

A GMO tour differs among the different branches, but it is when you are basically acting as a primary care provider. You see the day to day sniffles and butt rashes of the troops. Most GMOs just work in a clinic on base somewhere.

In the Army and Air Force (especially Air Force) you could be a GMO called a Flight Surgeon, which is essentially a primary care provider for aviators. You are not a surgeon, more like an untrained family practice doc who wears a flightsuit and gets to fly in the back of a plane a few times per month. In the Navy, you could be the only doc onboard a ship at sea for a few months. The Navy also has DMOs (Dive Medicine Officers), who take care of the guys in submarines when they surface, and GMOs that are assigned to the Marine Corps, who have no medical corps of their own.

Many GMOs are deployed and do the same thing they usually do, just in a field hospital or tent. The problem is that most of those selected for GMOs positions have to do it before they are allowed to do a residency. As a result, they have only completed a one year internship after medical school, and can find themselves in situations where they are the only one in charge of an issue that they are not trained to handle. The results can sometimes be scary. There are few residency trained physicians that get tagged to do GMO tours, which would really suck because your surgical skills that you worked so long to learn would atrophy. Most, however, are people who did not match to a residency slot, or simply chose to be a GMO. GMO tours are 2 or 3 years long.

Yes, doctors wear uniforms every day. If you are a surgeon, you will wear your uniform to the hospital and change into scrubs when you get there on the days that you are in the OR.

As for times for promotion, you are promoted to O-3 as soon as you graduate medical school. O-4 is automatic after maybe 6 years. About 6 years later, most make O-5. Anything about O-5 will require more and more administrative duties (hospital commander, etc...) and less and less patient care.

 

[mathlegend]

Thanks. Another thing, for people who choose HPSP, when do they choose which branch to serve in? Is it when they apply for residency?

 

[mathlegend]

Also...do doctors have a higher chance of dieing in the Army than in Navy or Air Force?

 

[del Sol DOHC]

Thanks. Another thing, for people who choose HPSP, when do they choose which branch to serve in? Is it when they apply for residency?

Also...do doctors have a higher chance of dieing in the Army than in Navy or Air Force?

You choose when you apply to HPSP. If you want to be in the Army, you see an Army recruiter to apply for Army HPSP. Navy and Air Force each have their own HPSP programs. If you want to be a military doc, you could also look into USUHS or FAP (do a search on these), and keep in mind that you could also serve as a physician part time in the National Guard or Reserve forces. Part time is the route I will be taking. I didn't care for active duty service.

As for dying, your likelihood of dying as a military physician is the same in any of the services, which is pretty low. You are more likely to be killed in a car accident in the US.

 

[mathlegend]

Thanks again. I looked into USUHS and FAP, still deciding. Luckily I still have at least 5 years to make a decision.

The dying part...that is a relief.

 

[del Sol DOHC]

Thanks again. I looked into USUHS and FAP, still deciding. Luckily I still have at least 5 years to make a decision.

The dying part...that is a relief.

lol 5 years? Still in high school and already worried about GMO tours... You are just like me. I always have my life planned out many years in advance, then something happens and I need to readjust my plans. It's fun to plan your life, but it gets kind of frustrating having to change it all the time. Just concentrate on school, get the best grades and standardized test scores possible, have fun, and don't worry about any of this stuff until you are ready to apply to medical school. By then, a lot of this information may be totally different. Good luck!

 

[mathlegend]

Yep, going to be a junior in the fall. I also have my life more or less thought out, but of course I'm changing as things around me changes. I'm doing well in school, having fun all that stuff 🙂 Hopefully some issues in the military will change for the better in a few years. Good luck to you too!

 

[DrMetal]

Thanks again. I looked into USUHS and FAP, still deciding. Luckily I still have at least 5 years to make a decision.

The dying part...that is a relief.

LOL indeed, kid take it easy. When I was a junior in HS, only things on my mind were mastering Van Halen's Eruption and asking out girls (i was way more successful in the former).

Good on you for being so proactive...but remember to take the time to smell the roses.

 

[mathlegend]

xD Asking out guys...I think I'll let the guys ask me out 🙂 Yep, I'm enjoying life! MMA training 2 hrs a day is just plain awesome.

 

[FutureDoc2009]

Great thread! I've learned some great things from here. I still have some specific questions regarding this topic.

1) If I have not yet began pre-med (starting college in Spring 2010) should I join a branch right now in order to have some years of service by the time I do graduate? (I would still prefer to stay where I am, California) or should I wait until I began med school to join the service and apply for the HPSP?

2) In terms of hospitals available for physicians to practice at, which branch has the widest variety? I am interested in locations near beaches, maybe in other countries. I would like to travel and see much of the world while still being a physician. (I do not want to be stuck in the middle of nowhere with no chance of rotating hospitals)

3) Which branch has the most laid back type of lifestyle, i.e. leave time, flexible schedule, but still enough opportunity to be productive as possible?

4) Finally, I am contemplating becoming an oncologist, but I have yet to hear anybody mention that specialty in the military. What are the opportunities for an oncologist in the military?

 

[NavyFP]

xD Asking out guys...I think I'll let the guys ask me out 🙂 Yep, I'm enjoying life! MMA training 2 hrs a day is just plain awesome.

I noted you are looking at Podiatry. Only Navy and Army have HPSP scholarships for Podiatry. While many of the rules hold true for podiatrists, they are Medical Service Corps which makes attaining O5 a bit more dodgy.

You are a long way off, your truths may change from now to then.

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

Great thread! I've learned some great things from here. I still have some specific questions regarding this topic.

1) If I have not yet began pre-med (starting college in Spring 2010) should I join a branch right now in order to have some years of service by the time I do graduate? (I would still prefer to stay where I am, California) or should I wait until I began med school to join the service and apply for the HPSP?

2) In terms of hospitals available for physicians to practice at, which branch has the widest variety? I am interested in locations near beaches, maybe in other countries. I would like to travel and see much of the world while still being a physician. (I do not want to be stuck in the middle of nowhere with no chance of rotating hospitals)

3) Which branch has the most laid back type of lifestyle, i.e. leave time, flexible schedule, but still enough opportunity to be productive as possible?

4) Finally, I am contemplating becoming an oncologist, but I have yet to hear anybody mention that specialty in the military. What are the opportunities for an oncologist in the military?

You're in high school! Just worry about finishing high school and getting into a good college. You're mind will change dozens of time about dozens of things waaay before you need to worry about whether or not to be an oncologist.

I'm not trying to be mean, and It's great that your'e dreaming, but relax!! Don't worry about this stuff yet.

 

[sojourner75]

1) If I have not yet began pre-med (starting college in Spring 2010) should I join a branch right now in order to have some years of service by the time I do graduate? (I would still prefer to stay where I am, California) or should I wait until I began med school to join the service and apply for the HPSP?

At this point, the questions are whether you'd enjoy the military as a career choice and life style, and whether you'd enjoy practicing medicine as a career choice and life style. These are two separate and independent questions. There are many threads on SDN discussing the pro/con of military, of each branch of service, and certainly medicine as a career choice. At the end you must experience it for yourself.

A tour of military service before college or med school will certainly benefit you in the long run, and allow you to make a better, informed decision. You will come back with marketable skills (e.g. teamwork) and $$$ for college (9/11 GI Bill). Additionally, military service will count as an "extracurricular activity" in your med school application. What it really says is commitment, discipline, and maturity in gainful employment.

But no, you will not get to stay only in California when you join the military. That is the whole point: the answers we seek almost always lie beyond our current physical/mental/emotional comfort zone. The key is to proceed with as many safety nets as possible. The military experience, short of actual combat, takes place in relatively safe, well-controlled environments. There are of course risks, but my opinion is that the benefit outweighs any inherent/residual risks.

 

[sojourner75]

1) If I have not yet began pre-med (starting college in Spring 2010) should I join a branch right now in order to have some years of service by the time I do graduate? (I would still prefer to stay where I am, California) or should I wait until I began med school to join the service and apply for the HPSP?

At this point, the questions are whether you'd enjoy the military as a career choice and life style, and whether you'd enjoy practicing medicine as a career choice and life style. These are two separate and independent questions. There are many threads on SDN discussing the pro/con of military, of each branch of service, and certainly medicine as a career choice. At the end you must experience it for yourself.

A tour of military service before college or med school will certainly benefit you in the long run, and allow you to make a better, informed decision. You will come back with marketable skills (e.g. teamwork) and $$$ for college (9/11 GI Bill). Additionally, military service will count as an "extracurricular activity" in your med school application. What it really says is commitment, discipline, and maturity in gainful employment.

But no, you will not get to stay only in California when you join the military. That is the whole point: the answers we seek almost always lie beyond our current physical/mental/emotional comfort zone. The key is to proceed with as many safety nets as possible. The military experience, short of actual combat, takes place in relatively safe, well-controlled environments. There are of course risks, but my opinion is that the benefit outweighs any inherent/residual risks.

 

[Ziehl-Neelsen]

LOL indeed, kid take it easy. When I was a junior in HS, only things on my mind were mastering Van Halen's Eruption and asking out girls (i was way more successful in the former).

Good on you for being so proactive...but remember to take the time to smell the roses.

I spent more time in high school trying to learn eruption and the solo from Beat It... It led to my proudest moment of medical school, not matching into my desired residency but ripping off a perfect eruption at the med school talent show. I did it just like EVH... Smoking a cigarette that I stuck into the frets while I shredded that axe. I finished the solo, plucked the cigarette out and took a deep drag. Then the rest of the guys from my makeshift med school dork band thumped out the beginning of Runnin' with the Devil. Good times.

 

[FutureDoc2009]

You're in high school! Just worry about finishing high school and getting into a good college. You're mind will change dozens of time about dozens of things waaay before you need to worry about whether or not to be an oncologist.

I'm not trying to be mean, and It's great that your'e dreaming, but relax!! Don't worry about this stuff yet.

Thanks. To clarify my position. I am actually a student in a vocational adult school soon graduating to be a medical assistant. I graduated high school in 2007 and have attended two semesters of community college between 2007-2008. True, my mind may change about whether or not I would like to become an oncologist. Truly I would love to due to personal reasons, but I am still willing to change my specialty in order to find employment and do something I truly love. I am about 90% sure that I would like to become a physician in the future. I am at a point now however where I feel like I am beginning my career and I want to make sure I have everything in order before I began. From another member's comment, I realize that it may be difficult/impossible to stay located in my current location while involved with the military and attending college at the same time. I may have to wait a year or two until I am more financially stable and I feel more comfortable leaving my local school for one further away. All that aside, I still am curious about the differences between the AF, Navy, & Army Medical Corps. True I can find the differences for basic enlisted life anywhere on the web, or elsewhere. But it has been hard for me to find exactly what a career in these branches is like for a health care provider. I want to know which branch has the best locations for hospitals (i.e. Hawaii, Florida, Caribbean), which branch has the most organized and well established Medical Corps, which branch has the most flexibility in terms of work schedule and vacation leave, and which branch involves the most travel? This is an open question answerable by anybody with knowledge on these subjects.

 

[SirGecko]

Thanks. To clarify my position. I am actually a student in a vocational adult school soon graduating to be a medical assistant. I graduated high school in 2007 and have attended two semesters of community college between 2007-2008. True, my mind may change about whether or not I would like to become an oncologist. Truly I would love to due to personal reasons, but I am still willing to change my specialty in order to find employment and do something I truly love. I am about 90% sure that I would like to become a physician in the future. I am at a point now however where I feel like I am beginning my career and I want to make sure I have everything in order before I began. From another member's comment, I realize that it may be difficult/impossible to stay located in my current location while involved with the military and attending college at the same time. I may have to wait a year or two until I am more financially stable and I feel more comfortable leaving my local school for one further away. All that aside, I still am curious about the differences between the AF, Navy, & Army Medical Corps. True I can find the differences for basic enlisted life anywhere on the web, or elsewhere. But it has been hard for me to find exactly what a career in these branches is like for a health care provider. I want to know which branch has the best locations for hospitals (i.e. Hawaii, Florida, Caribbean), which branch has the most organized and well established Medical Corps, which branch has the most flexibility in terms of work schedule and vacation leave, and which branch involves the most travel? This is an open question answerable by anybody with knowledge on these subjects.

I'm not sure what program you are looking to do where you would be going to school full time and active duty in the military. The guard? If you were thinking ROTC I wouldn't recommend it for someone like you. (and I'm not even sure if you qualify) Did you get training because you want to work or are you looking into going into a full time bachelor's degree program right now? Its just a little confusing still what you are actually looking to do. (it seems like you have at least a few years before you will be in the position to need this information, just saying)

That said I don't think that there are very huge differences between the services when it comes to leave or scheduling. You serve at the need of the _____ (Army, Navy, etc). You get the same amount of leave for all three. You aren't going to get to dictate things like when you want leave etc but you can request them. (doesn't mean they will be approved) I would think the bigger differences on scheduling would be between specialties so you really aren't going to get much useful information there. As for which has the best locations for hospitals? It's kind of a subjective question and you have to understand that even if there is a hospital in a great location (Army has Tripler in Hawaii) that doesn't mean you will be stationed there. (if you want a list of military hospitals there is always google)

 

[mathlegend]

I noted you are looking at Podiatry. Only Navy and Army have HPSP scholarships for Podiatry. While many of the rules hold true for podiatrists, they are Medical Service Corps which makes attaining O5 a bit more dodgy.

You are a long way off, your truths may change from now to then.

How would being in the Medical Service Corps affect increase in rank?

Yea, things might change...

 

[ArkansasRanger]

Just because I want to know from being a guy interested in both medical and military "stuff."

Does the Coast Guard now have some form of medical department? It seems I've come across something suggesting they have PAs as well as flight surgeons so I'm guessing, yes? Any clue?

 

[SirGecko]

Just because I want to know from being a guy interested in both medical and military "stuff."

Does the Coast Guard now have some form of medical department? It seems I've come across something suggesting they have PAs as well as flight surgeons so I'm guessing, yes? Any clue?

Someone correct me if I am wrong but I am pretty sure that the coast guard doesn't have their own dedicated medical corps. I think I may have read at some point that they get doctors from the PHS? Not sure if that is right or not...

 

[NavyFP]

How would being in the Medical Service Corps affect increase in rank?

Yea, things might change...

Medical Service Corps is a conglomeration of a number of different types of ancillary medical providers and administrators. They dump providers such as Podiatrists, Clinical Psychologists, Optometrists, Physical Therapists, Physician Assistants, and other people who have real jobs in with admin weenies. The admin weenies typically spend much of there time doing collateral duties which makes them look better when it comes time for evaluations. As a Podiatrist, you may have done 50 surgeries and seen 300 patients worth a few hundred thousand dollars if they had to send them to the network, but you did not have time to be the watchbill coordinator or participate in the Hispanic Heritage Committee. Duties far less meaningful to the true mission of military medicine than direct patient care. This can hinder your ability to be promoted.

I met a clinical psychologist who was passed over for O4 twice. She had deployed 3 times in 4 years and was consistently ranked on the lower end of FitReps because she had little to no face time with the powers that be. Absolutely insane. This is a hurdle that MSCs face.

 

[ArkansasRanger]

Someone correct me if I am wrong but I am pretty sure that the coast guard doesn't have their own dedicated medical corps. I think I may have read at some point that they get doctors from the PHS? Not sure if that is right or not...

That's the impression I've always had until recently.

 

[TopSecret]

Any opinions on the Navy Reserve and whether there's a need for neurologists? And what are the bonuses if there are any for the reserve medical corps?

About me:
I'm a board-certified neurologist in my early 30's.
1) US born citizen
2) Graduate of a US allopathic medical school and before that engineering school, scored 99th percentile on the college boards, MCAT's with subset scores not below 11
3) Neurology residency, scored 230's on Step 1
4) Neuromuscular fellowship-trained
5) Private practice in Orange County, California by the beach
6) No tattoos, no history of drug abuse or psychiatric illness
7) One traffic citation for speeding and that's it as far as any run ins with the law goes
8) Physically fit (BMI 22 with 10% or less of body fat and I work out regularly) but haven't been in the water for more than 10 years (but passed my high school swim test which involved treading water for 30 minutes and swimming a few laps)
9) Scored Category I on the AFQT at the local recruiting office (Do all doctors have to take this test before signing up? I was told to take this test soon after walking through the doors and did surprisingly well with no preparation.)
10) Learned how to sail and skydive during medical school. I'm also a former Boy Scout (I like the outdoors and roughing it).
11) Straight single guy, no family or children.

 

[mathlegend]

Medical Service Corps is a conglomeration of a number of different types of ancillary medical providers and administrators. They dump providers such as Podiatrists, Clinical Psychologists, Optometrists, Physical Therapists, Physician Assistants, and other people who have real jobs in with admin weenies. The admin weenies typically spend much of there time doing collateral duties which makes them look better when it comes time for evaluations. As a Podiatrist, you may have done 50 surgeries and seen 300 patients worth a few hundred thousand dollars if they had to send them to the network, but you did not have time to be the watchbill coordinator or participate in the Hispanic Heritage Committee. Duties far less meaningful to the true mission of military medicine than direct patient care. This can hinder your ability to be promoted.

I met a clinical psychologist who was passed over for O4 twice. She had deployed 3 times in 4 years and was consistently ranked on the lower end of FitReps because she had little to no face time with the powers that be. Absolutely insane. This is a hurdle that MSCs face.

Dang that sucks

 

[BOHICA-FIGMO]

Any opinions on the Navy Reserve and whether there's a need for neurologists? And what are the bonuses if there are any for the reserve medical corps?

About me:
I'm a board-certified neurologist in my early 30's.
1) US born citizen
2) Graduate of a US allopathic medical school and before that engineering school, scored 99th percentile on the college boards, MCAT's with subset scores not below 11
3) Neurology residency, scored 230's on Step 1
4) Neuromuscular fellowship-trained
5) Private practice in Orange County, California by the beach
6) No tattoos, no history of drug abuse or psychiatric illness
7) One traffic citation for speeding and that's it as far as any run ins with the law goes
8) Physically fit (BMI 22 with 10% or less of body fat and I work out regularly) but haven't been in the water for more than 10 years (but passed my high school swim test which involved treading water for 30 minutes and swimming a few laps)
9) Scored Category I on the AFQT at the local recruiting office (Do all doctors have to take this test before signing up? I was told to take this test soon after walking through the doors and did surprisingly well with no preparation.)
10) Learned how to sail and skydive during medical school. I'm also a former Boy Scout (I like the outdoors and roughing it).
11) Straight single guy, no family or children.

🤣 Is this a serious post or a personal add? 🤣

 

[TopSecret]

🤣 Is this a serious post or a personal add? 🤣

It's a serious inquiry but I can see how it can come across as a personal ad. lol

I just want to know what a career in the Navy Reserve would mean. If there's an abundance of neurologists and I'm just spending time doing physicals and primary care, I'd be kind of disappointed.

 

[NavyFP]

It's a serious inquiry but I can see how it can come across as a personal ad. lol

I just want to know what a career in the Navy Reserve would mean. If there's an abundance of neurologists and I'm just spending time doing physicals and primary care, I'd be kind of disappointed.

I will admit that medical bonuses for Reservists is a gap in my knowledge base, but I don't believe it is a huge amount. Mostly you get drill pay and 2 weeks a year.

A career in the Reserves would involve a 3 month call up every 3-4 years. Often this will be to backfill an active member who is going forward, but not always. The previous head of Navy Medicine Reservists was stalwart about the 3 months and tried to limit extended call ups unless the member volunteered. Prior to 9/11, you could expect to do your weekend drills and 2 weeks per year without much else. Not so today. Reservists are frequently utilized and many have considerable deployed time.