Differences in compensation between sex

[Zedor]

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http://shine.yahoo.com/financially-...ncludes-the-perk-of-equal-pay--181800575.html

The Top 10 Best Paying Jobs for Women (with approximate median annual incomes):
1. Pharmacist ($97,500)
2. Chief Executive ($90,000)
3. Lawyer ($85,000)
4. Nurse Practitioner ($79,500)
5. Computer and Information Systems Manager ($79,500)
6. Physician/Surgeon ($74,000)
7. Physician Assistant ($71,000)
8. Software Developer, Applications and Systems Software ($71,000)
9. Management Analyst ($69,000)
10. Computer Systems Analyst ($65,000)

Anyone care to comment on the accuracy of this? I saw that and was dumbfounded.

 

[Stellar Clouds]

Seems rather incredible that on average a female can make more money as an NP than an MD.

 

[mirimonster]

I'm guessing they failed to account for the huge number of female physicians who only work part time.

 

[Zedor]

I'm guessing they failed to account for the huge number of female physicians who only work part time.

Is the assumption that female physicians are the only cohort that work part time for child rearing? I'd assume NPs do the same, no?

 

[Stellar Clouds]

I'm guessing they failed to account for the huge number of female physicians who only work part time.

From the original Forbes article:

Why do we still see such a cavernous wage gap among physicians? Men tend to pursue the higher-paying specialties like brain and heart surgery, says David Lewin, a UCLA management professor and head of Berkeley Research Group’s Labor and Employment practice. On the other hand, women tend toward lower-paying specialties like pediatrics and general practice, and they often make further trade-offs in pay for more flexibility, he says.

 

[mirimonster]

Is the assumption that female physicians are the only cohort that work part time for child rearing? I'd assume NPs do the same, no?

I think they're more likely to, although I don't have any data to back me up. Full time nursing is much more conducive to family life than full time physician, so there is less pressure to go to part time. All of the nurses/np's I know are full-time, whereas a good number of the female physicians I know are part-time.

 

[mirimonster]

From the original Forbes article:

Makes sense. But that still wouldn't explain why they're below NP.

 

[Stellar Clouds]

Makes sense. But that still wouldn't explain why they're below NP.

One way to make less money and have more free time as a physician is to take less call. Perhaps NPs have minimal to no call, so the option of eliminating it doesn't really exist?

 

[JGimpel]

http://shine.yahoo.com/financially-...ncludes-the-perk-of-equal-pay--181800575.html

The Top 10 Best Paying Jobs for Women (with approximate median annual incomes):
1. Pharmacist ($97,500)
2. Chief Executive ($90,000)
3. Lawyer ($85,000)
4. Nurse Practitioner ($79,500)
5. Computer and Information Systems Manager ($79,500)
6. Physician/Surgeon ($74,000)
7. Physician Assistant ($71,000)
8. Software Developer, Applications and Systems Software ($71,000)
9. Management Analyst ($69,000)
10. Computer Systems Analyst ($65,000)

Anyone care to comment on the accuracy of this? I saw that and was dumbfounded.

Yahoo Shine article.

[/thread]

 

[Stellar Clouds]

Yahoo Shine article.

[/thread]

If the OP quoted the Forbes article instead (which is the actual source of information), would you still /thread?

 

[afujiwa3]

Seems rather incredible that on average a female can make more money as an NP than an MD.

i also think a 3k difference between the doctors and the people that assist doctors is awk

 

[JGimpel]

If the OP quoted the Forbes article instead (which is the actual source of information), would you still /thread?

There are huge extremes in salary surveys due to all kinds of choices in scheduling, 1/2 or 3/4 time vs. Full-Time employee, and payor mixes. I've worked with physicians making $140K/year to 400K/year in the primary care fields. While half of them aren't as candid about their salaries, they are pretty candid about working 4 days a week or a few longer shifts then more days off in between for a certain ballpark figure. Add in the locums physicians working all sorts of hours and reimbursement schemes and you have no idea of what the reality is. By the way, since many of these surveys are unpaid, a doctor billing $300/hour might choose to spend that time generating revenue rather that fill out an anonymous survey. If a man or woman chooses to participate less in the practice to spend more time with the family or to build one, he/she is going to get paid less.

 

[D elegans]

I believe some of his figures may be inackarate.

 

[InVivo]

From the Forbes article:

"So which are the jobs that pay women the most? To find out, Forbes analyzed the median weekly earnings of full-time wage and salary workers in 2012, detailed by occupation and gender and tracked by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS)."

"Interestingly, however, women comprise only 35% of physicians and surgeons (No. 6) and make just 68% as much as their male counterparts, according to this data set."

I'm assuming they have deliberately tried to exclude part-time female physicians. And they have calculated that male physicians make an annual median salary of around 108,823$

 

[e30ftw]

those numbers are bullshyte.

at least in my specialty, any bc/be female EM physician can sign a contract making exactly as much as her male counterpart if she's willing to contract for the same hours.

thank god they don't use actual numbers anyway because if they used daniel stern (or comparative agency for each specialty) the numbers would show full time female physicians making 3x their listing of pharmacy salaries and that isn't good for public perception.

 

[DrMom]

those numbers are bullshyte.

at least in my specialty, any bc/be female EM physician can sign a contract making exactly as much as her male counterpart if she's willing to contract for the same hours.

thank god they don't use actual numbers anyway because if they used daniel stern (or comparative agency for each specialty) the numbers would show full time female physicians making 3x their listing of pharmacy salaries and that isn't good for public perception.

Agree on all points. I'm in an EM group of about 20 docs, nearly half female. Only 2 of us female docs actually regularly work the full contract hours and I'm the only woman in my group who regularly works extra hours (my kid is in college). Many of the men in my group work extra hours regularly. Women are more likely to make choices based on family and children (even based on the plan of future family and children). Many of those choices lead to lower incomes as a trade off for better family lifestyle.

 

[Law2Doc]

From the Forbes article:

"So which are the jobs that pay women the most? To find out, Forbes analyzed the median weekly earnings of full-time wage and salary workers in 2012, detailed by occupation and gender and tracked by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS)."

"Interestingly, however, women comprise only 35% of physicians and surgeons (No. 6) and make just 68% as much as their male counterparts, according to this data set."

I'm assuming they have deliberately tried to exclude part-time female physicians. And they have calculated that male physicians make an annual median salary of around 108,823$

Makes perfect sense -- women are only 1/3 of the field and represent a much higher percentage of non-full time employees, and many take themselves off partnership track for family reasons, and frankly 20 years ago finding a woman surgeon was pretty rare so of the numbers that have worked up to nice income the percentage of women is tiny. Still don't know how they get to a $75k average unless the numbers are heavily weighted toward people still in training though.

 

[yoyostring]

From the original Forbes article:

👍

 

[D elegans]

Still don't know how they get to a $75k average unless the numbers are heavily weighted toward people still in training though.

That's got to be the explanation.

 

[yoyostring]

Makes perfect sense -- women are only 1/3 of the field and represent a much higher percentage of non-full time employees, and many take themselves off partnership track for family reasons, and frankly 20 years ago finding a woman surgeon was pretty rare so of the numbers that have worked up to nice income the percentage of women is tiny. Still don't know how they get to a $75k average unless the numbers are heavily weighted toward people still in training though.

This makes sense.

 

[JGimpel]

I think that a good way to look at salaries of physicians is to look at what the going rate for locum tenens work is and subtract around 15-20% for benefits that one would get as a full time employee.

This one has links to the US Department of Labor to the right of each position:
http://locum-tenens.com/Salary.htm

This site has a good breakdown of the demographics with salaries free for the 2011 report, and the 2012 one probably by logging into their site:
http://www.locumtenens.com/physician-careers/physician-salary

Again, these numbers only represent averages, with the more specific information in the "Source" links referring to regional differences, but it's a better start than a few articles that look skewed towards the lower end of the spectrum of pay for each position.

 

[MsKrispyKreme]

This has to include resident salaries.