Different career paths ideas? Ph.D. in different areas ideas?

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Psychjailguy

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Hello, everyone, I am posting to see what other options I might have in pursuit of a Ph.D. My background is the following:

I hold a B.S in Criminal Justice, a minor in Psych (GPA 3.65); MS in Criminal Justice (GPA. 3.84). I also have am currently enrolled in an MS in clinical mental health counseling, current GPA 3.63. I took the GRE one time in 2014 and basically did not study for it at all. I was working full-time, taking care of my ill father, who passed in 2017 and applying to the MS program for CJ. I just took the GRE because my school told me I needed to. I think I took it about two or three weeks after I was told I had to. I know I have to retake the GRE to be considered for "reliable" Ph.D. programs.

I do not have basically any research experience; however, I have what you would call extensive work experience. I have work for a County Correctional facility as a correctional officer (CO) for two years while in school; then a Federal Prison as a CO for 6 months. I then obtained a state job as a police officer. My father ended up dying last year and I had to resign from my job because I was basically a mess and could not handle such a high-stress job with the passing of my father. I worked 6 hrs away, the family had to come first at that time

So, currently, honestly, I have a few specific interests one is to work at a county, state or federal jail or prison as a psychologist. I have the Masters and Bachelors in CJ, so I think with the psych background it would work out perfectly. I also have aspirations to teach at a college somewhere (community college or small or large university), I do not have children, or a significant other to hold me back geographically. I am considering Psy.d, Ph.D. and maybe social work programs. I am pretty open to suggestions outside of these disiplines as well, just trying to gain others perspectives; examples are social work Ph.D. or urban studies Ph.D. programs... I am not sure, but I am looking for any kind of suggestions that would be beneficial.

I will have to take the GRE just because of the 5-year rule for test scores (re-taking in Dec.). I am just wondering if I can get in anywhere with my work experience, CURRENT GRE scores, and High GPA. I have gotten another job in engineering until I am done with my current MS program, anticipated graduation is less than eight weeks away! I can work with it from there. Anything would be greatly appreciated.

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What actual job do you want? Wanting to be a psychologist means something different than teaching at a community college which means something different from working at a large university, which also means something different than being a social worker. It doesn't sound like you have a well articulated career goal so its hard to give you any advice on a specific plan to get there (e.g., degree to get, experiences you need to get it, etc.).
 
What actual job do you want? Wanting to be a psychologist means something different than teaching at a community college which means something different from working at a large university, which also means something different than being a social worker. It doesn't sound like you have a well articulated career goal so its hard to give you any advice on a specific plan to get there (e.g., degree to get, experiences you need to get it, etc.).

I am thinking of working in a correctional facility, but that is the plans if I cannot get into a Ph.D. program. I'm trying to think if I could even get into a social work or urban studies Ph.D. program or something related to these fields that might be related to the psychological field?
 
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I am thinking of working in a correctional facility, but that is the plans if I cannot get into a Ph.D. program. I'm trying to think if I could even get into a social work or urban studies Ph.D. program or something related to these fields that might be related to the psychological field?
My point is that your career aspirations are all over the place. You've mentioned teaching at a community college, being a researcher/professor at a large university, working in corrections somehow, and being a clinical service provider. It is not clear what you want to do IF you get into a PhD program. This will hurt your chances of getting in because it looks as though you have not put a great deal of thought into it. If I were to offer you advice, it would be to solidify your plan and interest in your efforts to get into a doctoral program. You also keep mentioning working in a setting, but working with a clinical degree (MSW, PhD, LPC, etc) is entirely different from working with a non-clinical degree (urban studies). As I already mentioned, I have no idea what you want to do as a career (e.g., the tasks, behaviors, and day to day things) even within a correctional setting.

I'm unsure how to offer you good career advice given this.
 
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Sorry for the confusion I am leaning towards working in corrections. At first, I wanted to work as a psychologist, but I have pretty much come to terms with trying to get into a clinical doctoral program. This is why I believe I am trying to expand my outlook on possible doc programs I could attend. I could work in a correctional setting with the degrees I have already, that would be something I can search for and most likely get. The different Ph.D. programs are mostly to either get into teaching at the university level or some kind of consultation role with an insurance company, a governmental entity. Reflecting on this reasoning is not a very good reason to pursue a degree, it is actually quite ignorant.

I think it might be much easier and less stressful to not pursue a doc degree, I was just trying to see what kinds of programs I could at least look at that I might be able to apply to?

So, instead of being confused, what are some good correctional facilities that hiring LPC graduates with a Masters in CJ as well? Maybe this is a little clearer than trying to pursue a doc degree that I most likely would not even be ready for until several years from now. I think this might be more reasonable.
 
Given that you have no research experience, I would either aim to continue working while gaining research experience so you can get into a good, funded program, or you could go the clinical route and do a PsyD. Depending on your financial situation and beliefs, the PhD/PsyD route may not be worth the career gains in the end, and may not be worth the time you have to invest in the program if you can do all that you want at the Masters level.

The clinical route at reputable PsyDs and clinically focused PhDs are essentially the same path and both will require some decent research experience pre-grad school for admission.
 
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Here is what the difference in degrees will get you at the prison level (from experience):

Your MS in CMHC degree will allow you to do individual and group therapy with prisoners and be apart of a team of health care professionals at the prison. Caseloads will vary depending on what kind of prison you're working at (federal, intake facility, max med min security, etc). For instance, if you are housed in a facility where there is a special needs unit you will conduct more group therapy intervention and not have as many individual therapy sessions. If you are in the GP you will do more individual therapy sessions. My caseload had roughly 150-200 patients and I was at an intake/GP setting at a max security for women. You will conduct the intakes at the facility as well as place patients on suicide watch when needed and do rounds and have sessions when needed in restrictive housing. You meet with a treatment team 1x/week. You will be required to share the on-call phone for suicide watch.

If you happened to pursue a PhD or PsyD and obtain your HSPP: You are apart of the administration. You would be expected to run any and all meetings hosted at the facility for the treatment team, which includes MS level therapists as well as addiction recovery staff. You will be responsible for assigning suicide watch on-call to the Masters level and taking it yourself on occasion. You will have a caseload for therapy, but you will have a much smaller caseload as you will be mostly delegating tasks. you will meet with administration of DOC with meetings often, which includes the warden, deputy warden, captain c/o. You may be responsible for helping to develop programs throughout the facility. Any and all problems that arise with the MH team you are responsible for. Any grievances with pts and providers you are responsible for discussing and determining an outcome.

The prisons are hiring MS and HSPP level providers alike, and they are ALWAYS hiring. The prison has a high turn over rate due to burnout, and therefore you will always find a job whether masters level or doctorate level. Where I am from it pays therapists the best no matter what level you're at.
 
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I do know that many correctional facilities hire more master's-level clinicians than PhD/PsyD ... it's easier for them to pay the MA clinician less. So with your MS counseling degree, you may be able to run groups in a prison and do some case management type stuff. At the MA level, you could even teach at community colleges.

If you want to do agency consultation work, assessment, or teach at a University, you're going to need the PhD or PsyD. Given that you have no research experience, I would either aim to continue working while gaining research experience so you can get into a good, funded program, or you could go the clinical route and do a PsyD. Depending on your financial situation and beliefs, the PhD/PsyD route may not be worth the career gains in the end, and may not be worth the time you have to invest in the program if you can do all that you want at the Masters level.

Not sure if that helps?

From the sound of it the only difference within the correctional setting when it comes to masters-level, or doc degree is basically responsibilities. I thank you for the advice, as it is really helping me place my interests inline. I really have basically come back to the drawing broad and have had to rethink what I want to do. I really have everyone on this site to thank for that. I guess I never really sat down until I actually had to. The suggestion of working, getting the full LPC license (that is what it is in my state) then finding time to gain research experience before trying to apply for a fully-funded program sounds like the best option.

Based off that, could I get on some kind of research team while working? Since I have been working full-time and going to school I know the schedule would not be that much different. Although the stress, hours and responsibilities would change quite a bit. Also, does anyone know of Psy.d programs that accept the Miller Analogies test (MAT)? Thanks you again everyone for the great advice!
 
The clinical route at reputable PsyDs and clinically focused PhDs are essentially the same path and both will require some decent research experience pre-grad school for admission.

Hey WisNeuro,

What do you think would be considered a "decent" amount of research experience (i.e. published papers, data collections, etc)? If you cannot get published what do you think would be a good route to gain the proper research experience?
 
My point is that your career aspirations are all over the place. You've mentioned teaching at a community college, being a researcher/professor at a large university, working in corrections somehow, and being a clinical service provider. It is not clear what you want to do IF you get into a PhD program. This will hurt your chances of getting in because it looks as though you have not put a great deal of thought into it. If I were to offer you advice, it would be to solidify your plan and interest in your efforts to get into a doctoral program. You also keep mentioning working in a setting, but working with a clinical degree (MSW, PhD, LPC, etc) is entirely different from working with a non-clinical degree (urban studies). As I already mentioned, I have no idea what you want to do as a career (e.g., the tasks, behaviors, and day to day things) even within a correctional setting.

I'm unsure how to offer you good career advice given this.

Thank you justanothergrad, I know I have been literally all over the place. I really do not think I had a solid plan at all (to say the least). I think just stepping back, reevaluate everything and coming up with the plan to finish my current program obtain a job placement somewhere and work from there is the best way to start. Being able to at least get off the ground and apply myself within the mental health field is what I have to do now that I will no longer be a intern.

Secondly, you are absolutely correct that I really have not given the process of applying and everything else that goes along with a Ph.D. a lot of thought, so just being able to gain the experience from everyone on this site and put things into perspective has been helpful.
 
Here is what the difference in degrees will get you at the prison level (from experience):

Your MS in CMHC degree will allow you to do individual and group therapy with prisoners and be apart of a team of health care professionals at the prison. Caseloads will vary depending on what kind of prison you're working at (federal, intake facility, max med min security, etc). For instance, if you are housed in a facility where there is a special needs unit you will conduct more group therapy intervention and not have as many individual therapy sessions. If you are in the GP you will do more individual therapy sessions. My caseload had roughly 150-200 patients and I was at an intake/GP setting at a max security for women. You will conduct the intakes at the facility as well as place patients on suicide watch when needed and do rounds and have sessions when needed in restrictive housing. You meet with a treatment team 1x/week. You will be required to share the on-call phone for suicide watch.

If you happened to pursue a PhD or PsyD and obtain your HSPP: You are apart of the administration. You would be expected to run any and all meetings hosted at the facility for the treatment team, which includes MS level therapists as well as addiction recovery staff. You will be responsible for assigning suicide watch on-call to the Masters level and taking it yourself on occasion. You will have a caseload for therapy, but you will have a much smaller caseload as you will be mostly delegating tasks. you will meet with administration of DOC with meetings often, which includes the warden, deputy warden, captain c/o. You may be responsible for helping to develop programs throughout the facility. Any and all problems that arise with the MH team you are responsible for. Any grievances with pts and providers you are responsible for discussing and determining an outcome.

The prisons are hiring MS and HSPP level providers alike, and they are ALWAYS hiring. The prison has a high turn over rate due to burnout, and therefore you will always find a job whether masters level or doctorate level. Where I am from it pays therapists the best no matter what level you're at.

Hello psych_pa, I really appreciate you putting into perspective the groundwork for a masters-level clinician at a prison. I currently am in the process of applying for the state correctional system, which is more likely to hiring right away compared to the one federal prison that is in my state. It seems that the differences are the caseloads for seeing clients, at the doctoral-level it is much more administrative as you have indicated. I think that would reasonably be more middle management work, or at least director type responsibilities for the entire mental health unit. This really solidifies my interest and confirms that it will most likely be the most comparative job to my level of knowledge and previous experience within the criminal justice field.

I really think that if I get a job at a state prison and work my way up with experience, get research experience from my local university, study for the GRE again this is a far more organized plan then just asking what are my chances. I am only in my late 20's, so I think I might be a little young for the "director" level of responsibilities. Given that if I am able to gain more knowledge and maintain my level of interest with self-care to avoid the inevitable burn-out that will come no matter what kind of population you are seeing will help me continue on in the mental health field.

Truly, thanks you for everything. If anyone else has suggestions, or helpful tips I am open to it. My head has been spinning the last two or so weeks trying to figure things out. I at least can move forward with a more stable plan of action to succeed then just trying to get into a Psy.D or Ph.D. program when I am not ready. The other route is I might just like seeing clients, referring and do that for the rest of my career. I of course might want to branch out in the future, which is why I think it might be better to just keep my options open and gain more experiences.

With all of this, how is the interview process like for the prison seeing psych_pa? Do you have any helpful hints for not the interview process (unless you want to provide this) but just handling different situation within the prison setting? Also, you can add anything else you might think is helpful.
 
Hey WisNeuro,

What do you think would be considered a "decent" amount of research experience (i.e. published papers, data collections, etc)? If you cannot get published what do you think would be a good route to gain the proper research experience?

Prior to grad school? a couple of years doing a variety of things for a research lab in psych. Data entry, data collection, analysis, etc. The hope is to get in, and do well enough that you get more responsibilities, to the point that you can get involved in something that you can put on your CV, most likely a poster. Some are fortunate enough to get on a publication. A publication either requires some luck via getting into a lab that is churning things out quickly, or through a lot of hard work and time getting to be an integral part of the lab and trusted with such things. Best way would be to look for paid (lots of competition for these jobs) or volunteer positions in psych labs at a nearby university.
 
With all of this, how is the interview process like for the prison seeing psych_pa? Do you have any helpful hints for not the interview process (unless you want to provide this) but just handling different situation within the prison setting? Also, you can add anything else you might think is helpful.

I would say most CMHC programs emphasize theories like CBT, person-centered, Adlerian etc. I would brush up on MRT which is highly used with prisoners. Ask if they provide training in that. They will want to know about your group experience. If you have any experience with anger management or any court-ordered treatment with DCS/CPS patients that would be helpful. Your experience as a c/o may help obtain a job as well. Overall, just be honest and be yourself.
 
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