Dilemma: Which MHC program to choose?

[thirddegree]

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So now I am faced with a choice. I applied to 2 MHC programs in my area and was accepted to both. Now to choose which one to attend...

Program A: CACREP-accredited program, no prerequisite classes needed, facilities are rundown, about 30 min from home.

Program B: Not CACREP-accredited program, 3 prerequisite classes I would need to take this summer, facilities are brand spanking new, about 10 min from which may allow me to do a grad assistantship to help offset costs.

My state (NY) does not require a CACREP-accredited program for licensure. Both programs are approved by my state. My ultimate career goal is private practice. If I were single, a 30 min commute would be a non-issue...but I am a very involved wife & mom of 3 school-aged kids and so a 10 min vs.30 min commute each way makes an impact. Although I know accommodations will need to made, I am trying to minimize the impact that my schooling will make on my family.

I guess if CACREP was not in the mix, I would choose Program B despite the fact that I need to take some prereqs. But I am wondering if I am a complete fool if I don't choose the CACREP program? Certainly don't want to waste my family's finances on a degree that will be difficult to turn into a profession.

Also, wondering if I'm I overlooking any other important criteria? Hard to get a read on the intership opportunities at each school...on the surface, from what faculty is claiming, it seems equal.

Any and all insights would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Take this with a grain of salt as MHC isn't my area, but I''d definitely choose program B. For some reason, CACREP accreditation doesn't (yet) seem to carry nearly as much weight in licensure or jobs as, say, APA accred does for psychology. From what I've seen, it's a plus if a program has it, but generally not a "deal breaker."

 

[jdawgg]

Frankly, you should be looking into the quality of the instruction and clinical training, practicum placement and the like... not the quality of the facilities. Determine this by looking up grads from the programs and interviewing them. Ask employers their impression of graduates from the programs.

CACREP accreditation will make licensure easier to obtain and is required for employment at places like the VA. As the field of counseling continues to consolidate into a more unified identity and counselors continue their expansion into practice areas that had been the sole domain of social workers and psychologists (e.g., the VA) CACREP accreditation will become more important.

 

[darkness2night]

jdawgg you are correct, the VA is now looking at graduates from CACREP institutions when it comes to hiring mental health counselors and the ease of obtainig a state license is much less worrisome than those who do not graduate from a CACREP school. Also, the quality of the schools is also important you don't want to waste your time with a school who gives A's to everyone just to keep up their reputation.

Congratulations thriddegree for being accepted into both programs. When you applied were you hoping to get into one program over the other?

 

[thirddegree]

Obviously I am concerned with the quality of the individual programs....however, I am having a pretty hard time trying to ascertain a true picture of this. I am not a superficial person, but do wonder if investing in facilities for the program is *some* indication of the schools investment/support in the program. Not quite sure how to go about accessing recent grads or employers? I am thinking about reaching out to my region's professional association and seeing if I can get any input from them. The fact that the non-CACREP program requires 18 credits of prereqs in psych courses (they accepted 9 of my undergrad, and are required the 9 additional) does make me wonder if that is an indication of better quality over the other program that has absolutely no prereqs.

I am trying to determine how much to weigh the CACREP piece in all of this...VA employment can be helpful for me in getting my supervised hours, however it's not something I am looking for as an ultimate career choice...as I mentioned, I'm hoping to ultimately have my own practice. Adding to my confusion is the recent ACA email which stated: "ACA has not seen any evidence that the VA is hiring significant numbers of LPMHCs at VA facilities."

So, *if* both programs are of equal quality...I am wondering if I should give weight to CACREP (Program A)...enough to tip the logisitical advantage for me of Program B. When I applied to both, all of these questions were already in my head and I wasn't leaning towards one or the other.

 

[jdawgg]

Obviously I am concerned with the quality of the individual programs....however, I am having a pretty hard time trying to ascertain a true picture of this. I am not a superficial person, but do wonder if investing in facilities for the program is *some* indication of the schools investment/support in the program. Not quite sure how to go about accessing recent grads or employers? I am thinking about reaching out to my region's professional association and seeing if I can get any input from them. The fact that the non-CACREP program requires 18 credits of prereqs in psych courses (they accepted 9 of my undergrad, and are required the 9 additional) does make me wonder if that is an indication of better quality over the other program that has absolutely no prereqs.

CACREP is the basic minimal standard for counseling programs... it is concerning when a program for whatever reason chooses not to become accredited. But, if you are absolutely certain you only want to go into private practice this may not matter.... at the same time many people find themselves changing their minds at some point during their program. As far as speaking with recent grads/employers, do some internet research! All I did before choosing my program was do a google search of the facility/program name and I looked up some grads and sent some emails.... I spoke with several people who were more than happy to take time to talk to me about their program. Look up some possible internship sites and peruse their employee list and send some emails... it isn't difficult.

Even programs that are accredited vary in the experience they provide during practicum, which is really one of the more essential parts of the process. My program, for instance, offered an extensive semester long practicum placement in the university student counseling center with constant live supervision behind the mirror. I took full advantage of this and spent about 30 hours a week in the counseling center and maintained a caseload of 12 clients and was able to run groups and give workshops to students. Another program in my area only offered their practicum over 3 weekends and you enlisted 3 "clients" that you recruit to practice therapy on... frankly, it's a joke.

 

[Vasa Lisa]

Congrats on being accepted and having choices... and condolences on having choices...

For me - the decision would be based on outcomes - not the commute or the facilities. I would lean toward CACREP because programs that have that accreditation have been through an expensive and time consuming process to get that level of recognition. There are fine programs that are not CACREP accredited (sometimes because they are too small - CACREP requires a certain # of faculty). What CACREP gives you is flexibility in the future as the LPC/CMHC credential moves toward portability and national reciprocity.

I would contact the director of both programs and ask for the names of a few current students who are in their internships. Contact those students, offer to buy them lunch/coffee/dinner and ask them to speak candidly about their experiences.

Also ask for the names of graduates who are recently licensed. Ask them how they earned their post masters hours, how hard/easy it was to find employment in your area, what they think about their program now that they are licensed professionals etc.

A 60 hour CMHC program is an enormous commitment of time and personal engagement. The experience will (and should) shape you, change you, stretch you, inspire you, and transform you. You will also likely meet peers who will be your lifelong traveling companions. Private practice is solitary and can be lonely. Grad school is a place to create a community of peers who will be an important part of your support system as a therapist.

It is a tough decision I know - and it feels like there is a lot riding on the decision - and there is.

 

[thirddegree]

Thanks for all the insights. I am doing my due diligence right now and trying to get in touch with students/graduates of both programs to get some first hand feedback.

So I am still pretty fascinated with the whole CACREP thing and did a little research. Of the nearly 70 approved programs for NY state qualifying licensure for MH counselors, only 5 are actually CACREP accredited. Among those not accredited are NYU and Columbia. A bit puzzling for me.

 

[Vasa Lisa]

You might also contact your state counselor's association, You can find them from the ACA website. If you are in an area with an active counselor community - you might also have a local chapter. Seek them out and ask for the back story for your area re: CACREP and licensure.

I would also ask the non-CACREP program whether they have ever applied for CACREP and if not why not? If they don't have the requisite number of faculty - they could be an excellent program - but too small to qualify for CACREP accreditation.

It is a big decision that you are making - and 60 credit hours is a lot of time in grad school - so it is great that you have choices and are considering things up front.

You could also join the COUNSGRADS listserv and ask your questions there.

 

[Zebra F701]

CACREP is the basic minimal standard for counseling programs... it is concerning when a program for whatever reason chooses not to become accredited. But, if you are absolutely certain you only want to go into private practice this may not matter.... at the same time many people find themselves changing their minds at some point during their program. As far as speaking with recent grads/employers, do some internet research! All I did before choosing my program was do a google search of the facility/program name and I looked up some grads and sent some emails.... I spoke with several people who were more than happy to take time to talk to me about their program. Look up some possible internship sites and peruse their employee list and send some emails... it isn't difficult.

Even programs that are accredited vary in the experience they provide during practicum, which is really one of the more essential parts of the process. My program, for instance, offered an extensive semester long practicum placement in the university student counseling center with constant live supervision behind the mirror. I took full advantage of this and spent about 30 hours a week in the counseling center and maintained a caseload of 12 clients and was able to run groups and give workshops to students. Another program in my area only offered their practicum over 3 weekends and you enlisted 3 "clients" that you recruit to practice therapy on... frankly, it's a joke.

I would take "minimal standard" with a grain of salt. I know a few very reputable programs that have opted out of CACREP because it would require them to hire more PhD's/EdD's in counselor education rather than clinical and counseling psychologists. No knock on CACREP, but it might be worth looking in to the faculty at the respective institutions. I think, and I might be wrong, that a lot of the counseling psychology PhD programs have non-CACREP status for their MA programs.

 

[wigflip]

Hi OP,

I'm a commuting caregiver as well, and let me tell you, it's easy for posters to say that the commute shouldn't be a factor, or shouldn't significantly factor in to your decision, but as you know, we live in the real world. If you're leaning towards B anyway, the commute could make a big difference. I live far from campus and am unable to participate in a number of activities (some of which would increase my funding) which would enrich my education, raise faculty's perception of me, etc. Being close to campus is huge, especially if it's a campus you want to be close to. And attending a program with CACREP accreditation may not compensate adequately for that sinking feeling in your gut when a family emergency occurs and you cannot get there in time (this has happened to me more than once). Some of the CACREP accredited programs in my area are otherwise not well regarded and I wouldn't attend them under any circumstances.

Keep in mind that people on these boards are from all over the US and beyond; the CACREP importance issue seems to vary widely by region. If you've already done your homework and assessed that CACREP isn't that important in your region, and especially if you're not interested in the VA, go with (what to me seems to be) your inclination and accept at B.

You'll likely also find previous CACREP discussions on this forum helpful.

Good luck.

 

[thirddegree]

Thanks for the recent feedback on this issue. I'm pretty sure I've settled on the CACREP institution.

The grads & students I reached out to in both programs seemed happy. The CACREP institution's MHC program has been around longer and has more of a track record. Both schools seem to have internship opportunities at the same places in my area. The difference is that Program A (CACREP) gives the student the responsibility of setting up the internship, however Program B (non-CACREP) sets everything up for the student. That is kind of nice, however, I'm thinking that by having to call around and try to set up interviews for internships it will help to hone my job search skills (which are a little rusty), force me to make contacts, and really put myself "out there." There is definitely a more "warm & fuzzy" feeling from Program B - which I think I would've really liked as a younger person just out of undergrad...but don't think I need that now and in fact might keep me from exercising some of the skills that I really need to get comfortable with re-entering the "real world" after being a SAHM for over a decade.

Finally, I'm setting up what I need to for coverage of my family needs on the nights of classes and my family has been forewarned that they will need to bend and adjust when school starts for me. Hopefully, after some expected growing pains, things will go relatively smoothly.

On the CACREP debate, I guess where I came out was, since LMHC is so new in my state and it is an emerging career, I feel like accreditation can possibly be an asset and something I can never get at once I've graduated from a non-accreditted school. Also, since the much of the coursework aligns so closely with the requirements for school counseling...if for some reason down the road I would want to pursue something like that, I could easily make up the difference in courses and internship to get that degree as well.

Again, thanks so much for your input and thoughts. I've come back to this post many times to reread and process.