Direct 5 year PA program or pre-med at more "prestigious" school?

[femmegoblue]

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Hi guys.

I am trying to help a family friend make a decision on where to attend college, and I thought I'd bring it to SDN for advice. She is required to tell the PA program by Monday if she accepts her spot.

She's been admitted to the 5 year direct PA program at University of Detroit Mercy. She told me she just selected it on her application on a whim because she needed to pick something, but doesn't know much about being a PA and has never shadowed one. She has some scholarship at UDM, but it's a more expensive school to being with. She would commute from home to attend school. UDM is mostly a commuter school in a lackluster part of Detroit (not Midtown where Wayne is).

The other option is Michigan, where she would just be in the general college of arts & sciences. She told me she missed out on the real high school experience because her HS was a super competitive IB school with no sports, dances, etc, and the appeal at Michigan is that she would have a "real" college experience on a big campus and could do whatever she wants to do.

She knows she wants to do something in medicine (like every other 18 year old), and really doesn't know what to do. She said the PA route seems more efficient and "logical" choice, but is not anywhere close to being certain she wants to be a PA.

Anyone have any good advice? Should she take the PA program and just drop it if halfway through if she decides she wants to go to medical school, but at least it's there as a solid option? Thank you!

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I'm assuming the first couple years are undergrad premed/pre-PA courses. As long as she is free to switch out of the PA program into a different degree, I say she should lock it in so that she has it as an option and then have her shadow both to see which she likes more.

 

[femmegoblue]

I'm assuming the first couple years are undergrad premed/pre-PA courses. As long as she is free to switch out of the PA program into a different degree, I say she should lock it in so that she has it as an option and then have her shadow both to see which she likes more.

Yup, I just checked and the "professional" phase of the program won't be until years 4 and 5, so in the first three years she is only taking pre-med/PA courses toward the undergraduate Bio degree you get at completion. Thanks for the input!

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Yup, I just checked and the "professional" phase of the program won't be until years 4 and 5, so in the first three years she is only taking pre-med/PA courses toward the undergraduate Bio degree you get at completion. Thanks for the input!

Yeah, then she'd be stupid not to take the spot. If she shadows a couple PAs and says, "Hell yeah, this is perfect," then she's got it made. If not, then it's easy to switch. One in the band is worth two in the stands or something.

 

[honey0102]

Hi guys.

I am trying to help a family friend make a decision on where to attend college, and I thought I'd bring it to SDN for advice. She is required to tell the PA program by Monday if she accepts her spot.

She's been admitted to the 5 year direct PA program at University of Detroit Mercy. She told me she just selected it on her application on a whim because she needed to pick something, but doesn't know much about being a PA and has never shadowed one. She has some scholarship at UDM, but it's a more expensive school to being with. She would commute from home to attend school. UDM is mostly a commuter school in a lackluster part of Detroit (not Midtown where Wayne is).

The other option is Michigan, where she would just be in the general college of arts & sciences. She told me she missed out on the real high school experience because her HS was a super competitive IB school with no sports, dances, etc, and the appeal at Michigan is that she would have a "real" college experience on a big campus and could do whatever she wants to do.

She knows she wants to do something in medicine (like every other 18 year old), and really doesn't know what to do. She said the PA route seems more efficient and "logical" choice, but is not anywhere close to being certain she wants to be a PA.

Anyone have any good advice? Should she take the PA program and just drop it if halfway through if she decides she wants to go to medical school, but at least it's there as a solid option? Thank you!

I went to the University of Michigan, to that same college you mentioned. I would personally recommend that she goes there. Once she goes there, takes classes, and has opportunities to shadow and volunteer and network (there are tons at UM Ann Arbor), it might be easier to choose between PA and other fields. Especially if she is not certain it's best she takes some time to experience the various fields more. The concern with taking the PA program and dropping it halfway is she may have given up great opportunities at UM. I think an education at UM could prepare her for anything she wanted, whether it was PA or something else. The pre-health advising there is also great, they have experience advising many people for various different fields.
Also, about missing out on the high school experience-UM would be a great place to make up for that. It's rigorous but I didn't think it was overcompetitive, for the most part-people were generally really nice-and there definitely were sports and tons of student orgs. They also have great research opportunities, if that's something she may want to look into

So in conclusion I would recommend that she goes to UM. Of course, it is a personal decision with no right or wrong answer. Good luck to her!

 

[femmegoblue]

I went to the University of Michigan, to that same college you mentioned. I would personally recommend that she goes there. Once she goes there, takes classes, and has opportunities to shadow and volunteer and network (there are tons at UM Ann Arbor), it might be easier to choose between PA and other fields. Especially if she is not certain it's best she takes some time to experience the various fields more. The concern with taking the PA program and dropping it halfway is she may have given up great opportunities at UM. I think an education at UM could prepare her for anything she wanted, whether it was PA or something else. The pre-health advising there is also great, they have experience advising many people for various different fields.
Also, about missing out on the high school experience-UM would be a great place to make up for that. It's rigorous but I didn't think it was overcompetitive, for the most part-people were generally really nice-and there definitely were sports and tons of student orgs. They also have great research opportunities, if that's something she may want to look into

So in conclusion I would recommend that she goes to UM. Of course, it is a personal decision with no right or wrong answer. Good luck to her!

Thanks for your input! I also went to U of M and agree that there are experiences at Michigan that I know I wouldn't have gotten at any other in-state school, but I am trying to stay unbiased 🙂

 

[DokterMom]

Going directly into a professional program when she's not at all sure about the profession seems unwise. As you note, she's 18 and has only the vaguest notion of what she'd like to do with her future. Keeping all her options open sounds like a better choice.

 

[altblue]

I went to the University of Michigan, to that same college you mentioned. I would personally recommend that she goes there. Once she goes there, takes classes, and has opportunities to shadow and volunteer and network (there are tons at UM Ann Arbor), it might be easier to choose between PA and other fields. Especially if she is not certain it's best she takes some time to experience the various fields more. The concern with taking the PA program and dropping it halfway is she may have given up great opportunities at UM. I think an education at UM could prepare her for anything she wanted, whether it was PA or something else. The pre-health advising there is also great, they have experience advising many people for various different fields.
Also, about missing out on the high school experience-UM would be a great place to make up for that. It's rigorous but I didn't think it was overcompetitive, for the most part-people were generally really nice-and there definitely were sports and tons of student orgs. They also have great research opportunities, if that's something she may want to look into

So in conclusion I would recommend that she goes to UM. Of course, it is a personal decision with no right or wrong answer. Good luck to her!

As long as she can put up with the grade deflation and do well above average there, sure

 

[femmegoblue]

As long as she can put up with the grade deflation and do well above average there, sure

That was definitely my experience as well, and literally had to claw my way into medical school so that's why I'm weary.

 

[altblue]

That was definitely my experience as well, and literally had to claw my way into medical school so that's why I'm weary.

Yea definitely talk to her about the risks involved.

It's not just med school, I think any grad program wants and many require a good GPA - most students don't get that at UM

 

[efle]

I vote U of M. I don't think she'd have issues getting into a PA school if she did decide that's what she wanted after all, and if she decides on something else, it's the better place to be.

 

[Nave]

As long as she can put up with the grade deflation and do well above average there, sure

This. OP, I am assuming you went to University of Michigan, so you'll understand this. But, lots of my friends who excelled in high school went to University of Michigan wanting to go into medicine and came out discouraged because of the grade deflation. With that said, she'll be at a great institution where she can get the "real" college experience and will have other options if she chooses not to go into medicine. Just remind her of the grade deflation.

 

[DokterMom]

Best Option: Prestigious school with grade inflation (many private LOCs)
Worst Option: Non-Prestigious school with grade deflation (many public schools)

Debatable: Prestigious school with grade deflation (many state flagships) or Non-Prestigious school with grade inflation

In this last category (where most folks live) I'd suggest you look carefully at the quality of education and at your own nature and personal tendencies. Will you have the discipline and ability to claw your way to the top at a highly competitive school? How certain are you that medical school is what you want? How important is it to you to have a well-recognized school name on your diploma? For medical school, your college's name may not matter much, but for many other fields it will. If I'm interviewing a candidate for an entry-level job, the caliber of their university matters greatly. The further from graduation, the less it matters. But for now, control what you can.

 

[shoal007]

it sounds like she doesn't know what she wants. Most premed don't end up choosing medicine. I'd argue more options the better. Michigan all the way. Good grades matter independently of the field chosen, although some fields more than others.


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[altblue]

I vote U of M. I don't think she'd have issues getting into a PA school if she did decide that's what she wanted after all, and if she decides on something else, it's the better place to be.

I'm somewhat surprised by your reply lol. Did you fall off the anti grade-deflation train?

 

[efle]

I'm somewhat surprised by your reply lol. Did you fall off the anti grade-deflation train?

It's more that OP isn't dreaming of Top X med schools...their current goal is PA and they really have no idea if they even want to do that. Too likely to switch interests to give up the much much better school, in my opinion. Especially if they're into big college sports and the traditional experience of dorm life

 

[Biochemistry69]

That was definitely my experience as well, and literally had to claw my way into medical school so that's why I'm weary.

Posts like these make me feel better about my decision to go to the green and white.

 

[honey0102]

Posts like these make me feel better about my decision to go to the green and white.

Lol I don't think that was the purpose of the post! 😉

 

[Nave]

Posts like these make me feel better about my decision to go to the green and white.

Haha...

 

[mwsapphire]

Thanks for your input! I also went to U of M and agree that there are experiences at Michigan that I know I wouldn't have gotten at any other in-state school, but I am trying to stay unbiased 🙂

Small thread derail: University of Michigan has grade deflation? My old HS classmate is there and he says classes are fairly scaled....

 

[efle]

Small thread derail: University of Michigan has grade deflation? My old HS classmate is there and he says classes are fairly scaled....

It's all relative. The grade distribution there is probably reasonable, but the student body is much tougher than your typical state school. What makes a place hard isn't necessarily an unfair curve, it's that being above-average on a fair curve is hard.

 

[mwsapphire]

It's all relative. The grade distribution there is probably reasonable, but the student body is much tougher than your typical state school. What makes a place hard isn't necessarily an unfair curve, it's that being above-average on a fair curve is hard.

Right, right . I knew that. That's the case at any top school, though.

 

[honey0102]

Small thread derail: University of Michigan has grade deflation? My old HS classmate is there and he says classes are fairly scaled....

I studied there and no, I don't think it has grade deflation. Some of the classes are challenging, but there is not, as far as I know, grade deflation, at least not in the pre-med classes.
Side note, if anyone happens to be a pre-med there and has questions specifically about being a pre-med there I'd be happy to answer them on a separate thread/message!

 

[libertyyne]

One thing that hasnt been discussed is the time saved. The 5 year program shaves off one year from the traditional Bsc+PA program which is typically 4+2. Being a PA is a pretty sweet gig and there is lots of demand, it consistently ranks as one of the best professions to be in. That being said, I would choose Umich. OP's friend isnt sure, and might end up liking finance or CS or just want to get a non medical job. Umich's degree will go a lot farther and the added benefit of having the traditional college experience that the friend is hoping for.

 

[altblue]

Right, right . I knew that. That's the case at any top school, though.

Exactly, and if a student is interested in anything after undergrad that strongly favors a high GPA, they will be at a disadvantage with said lower GPA. The competitiveness of the student body at any top school will make the grades needed for a high GPA harder to get.

This consideration may be less important to the OP if they are intent on PA, rather than MD/DO programs...

 

[mwsapphire]

Exactly, and if a student is interested in anything after undergrad that strongly favors a high GPA, they will be at a disadvantage with said lower GPA. The competitiveness of the student body at any top school will make the grades needed for a high GPA harder to get.

This consideration may be less important to the OP if they are intent on PA, rather than MD/DO programs...

Don't PA's need similar GPA's?
EDIT: Damn. It's lower. 3.4-3.5 overall and 3.3-3.4 BCPM.

 

[femmegoblue]

I studied there and no, I don't think it has grade deflation. Some of the classes are challenging, but there is not, as far as I know, grade deflation, at least not in the pre-med classes.
Side note, if anyone happens to be a pre-med there and has questions specifically about being a pre-med there I'd be happy to answer them on a separate thread/message!

I think there is a large disparity in the pre-med experience at U of M. My master's program (as a last ditch effort for medical school) at Wayne is majority U of M kids who felt that being pre-med at a place like Michigan was a big mistake. I don't have any regrets since eventually I did get in to med school, but if I knew what I know now when I was a senior in HS I would have thought a lot harder about going to Michigan knowing I wanted to enter medicine.

 

[mwsapphire]

It would be worse for a place like Cornell/Hopkins with massive grade deflation, that don't make it known to HS seniors who were likely at the top of their class.

 

[honey0102]

I think there is a large disparity in the pre-med experience at U of M. My master's program (as a last ditch effort for medical school) at Wayne is majority U of M kids who felt that being pre-med at a place like Michigan was a big mistake. I don't have any regrets since eventually I did get in to med school, but if I knew what I know now when I was a senior in HS I would have thought a lot harder about going to Michigan knowing I wanted to enter medicine.

I'm not doubting that it's challenging-in fact I know from experience the classes here are definitely challenging, and you should be upfront with your friend about that so she has the truth as it is.

What I meant by lack of grade deflation was that there isn't an unfair curve-in most classes I've had, professors have said "This is a fixed grading scale and if everyone in the class gets above X% then everyone gets A's." I was under the impression that grade deflation meant actually changing the curve and making it harsher because many people did well, and I don't think that's ever happened in one of my classes.

But, they definitely were challenging. There was tons of material, some of which was difficult. The standards were high. I don't have regrets either, I appreciated my experience here, but I know this opinion will vary by person. I think the best thing your friend can do is talk to people from Umich and to people at the other school before making a decision

 

[cactusman]

It would be worse for a place like Cornell/Hopkins with massive grade deflation, that don't make it known to HS seniors who were likely at the top of their class.

Eh, not necessarily. Cornell and Michigan have student bodies with about the same mid-range ACT scores and HS GPA, but I would bet it's worse at Mich because public schools are generally deflated in comparison to privates with similar entering GPAs and test scores.

 

[femmegoblue]

Eh, not necessarily. Cornell and Michigan have student bodies with about the same mid-range ACT scores and HS GPA, but I would bet it's worse at Mich because public schools are generally deflated in comparison to privates with similar entering GPAs and test scores.

And the size doesn't help. Learning orgo in a 500 person lecture hall with people literally sitting on the floor because there aren't enough seats is a little daunting lol. I mean I obviously could have handled it better but yeah it's tough.

 

[aspiringmd94]

I agree with starting the PA route and then dropping later if she decides she wants to do something else. However, I know that sometimes the pre-reqs for PA programs are different than the pre-reqs for med school. So even though her gen ed's for the first 2-3 years may all be bio and med based, make 100% certain that they are actually going to serve as pre-reqs for other professional programs should she decide to switch.

 

[femmegoblue]

Thanks for your help guys! She ended up committing to the PA program.