Disadvantages of a New (true) SMP

[ahavah]

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I want to go to a true SMP, but I am having problems meeting some of the requirements [posted online] for most of them. So fortunately I may have found hope at a new SMP that places it's grad students alongside the MS1s (same courses, professors, and exams altogether like a happy family 🙂).

My concern is that both the medical school and graduate program are super new and I am unsure if it will serve to help me get accepted in a medical school. The advantage is that science is science hands-down and if I'm taking classes alongside MS1s earning A's & B's, then I probably would have earned A's & B's as a med student. The disadvantage is that the school's name is new to admissions committees, so I am unsure how serious my performance from this program wold be considered.

What do you think?

For background info check out my MDApp: http://www.mdapplicants.com/profile.php?id=20310

 

[novabossa]

Can you disclose the name of the program and/or post a link?

 

[drizzt3117]

Sounds like tcmc

 

[ahavah]

Can you disclose the name of the program and/or post a link?

I am waiting on an admissions decision from William Carey University: http://www.wmcarey.edu/Academics/GraduateStudies/2242/MasterofBiomedicalSc.shtm

Sounds like tcmc

What's tcmc? *edit*<-- Just found out about The Commonwealth Medical College.... too expensive for my budget.

 

[jslo85]

I want to go to a true SMP, but I am having problems meeting some of the requirements [posted online] for most of them. So fortunately I may have found hope at a new SMP that places it's grad students alongside the MS1s (same courses, professors, and exams altogether like a happy family 🙂).

My concern is that both the medical school and graduate program are super new and I am unsure if it will serve to help me get accepted in a medical school. The advantage is that science is science hands-down and if I'm taking classes alongside MS1s earning A's & B's, then I probably would have earned A's & B's as a med student. The disadvantage is that the school's name is new to admissions committees, so I am unsure how serious my performance from this program wold be considered.

What do you think?

For background info check out my MDApp: http://www.mdapplicants.com/profile.php?id=20310

Well I think you're getting a bit ahead of yourself if I'm understanding your two posts correctly in that you're still applying to the program and you have yet to be accepted. I'd have either thought about this a) before you applied or b) after you're accepted. If you are accepted and haven't applied to any other programs, then I don't see what the real debate is in that you really only have one option which is to go.

Another thing is there is zero advantage in going to a "new" SMP as opposed to an established one if all other things such as tuition, location and whatnot can be considered roughly equal. What makes an SMP attractive in a practical sense is a) how successful they have been in the past at sending students into medical school and b) how established they are both as a program and as a medical school so that other schools will either have had a history (precedent) of taking their SMP students or the school bears a very good reputation.

WCU has neither because their first class of medical students haven't even matriculated yet. It has only been a proposed COM all this time. It's like a pre-dental in the past asking what are the advantages of being a "pioneer" student going to UMDNJ-Brunswick as opposed to staying in either Stratford or Newark. There are no advantages, you go to the more established program, especialy if Newark is the campus that offers the actual dental courses. Anyway, I digressed with the example, point is if you can get into a reputable osteopathic SMP (I saw your MD Apps and I know that you can in a few places if you had applied early) I would go to that instead. I don't see a mention of any linkage between the Masters program and getting back into their own school. I expect the first year to be semi disorganized if PCOM-GA and other new MBS programs at new schools are any indiciation for at least the first 2-3 years. I also expect confusion as to when they expect to give students interviews if any are guaranteed like the other osteopathic SMPs.

 

[ahavah]

Well I think you're getting a bit ahead of yourself if I'm understanding your two posts correctly in that you're still applying to the program and you have yet to be accepted. I'd have either thought about this a) before you applied or b) after you're accepted. If you are accepted and haven't applied to any other programs, then I don't see what the real debate is in that you really only have one option which is to go.

Another thing is there is zero advantage in going to a "new" SMP as opposed to an established one if all other things such as tuition, location and whatnot can be considered roughly equal. What makes an SMP attractive in a practical sense is a) how successful they have been in the past at sending students into medical school and b) how established they are both as a program and as a medical school so that other schools will either have had a history (precedent) of taking their SMP students or the school bears a very good reputation.

WCU has neither because their first class of medical students haven't even matriculated yet. It has only been a proposed COM all this time. It's like a pre-dental in the past asking what are the advantages of being a "pioneer" student going to UMDNJ-Brunswick as opposed to staying in either Stratford or Newark. There are no advantages, you go to the more established program, especialy if Newark is the campus that offers the actual dental courses. Anyway, I digressed with the example, point is if you can get into a reputable osteopathic SMP (I saw your MD Apps and I know that you can in a few places if you had applied early) I would go to that instead. I don't see a mention of any linkage between the Masters program and getting back into their own school. I expect the first year to be semi disorganized if PCOM-GA and other new MBS programs at new schools are any indiciation for at least the first 2-3 years. I also expect confusion as to when they expect to give students interviews if any are guaranteed like the other osteopathic SMPs.

For a possible future reference, which SMPs do you know of that:
1) Accept <3.0
2) Do not require only academic LORs
3) Are degree granting... I'm not interested in a certificate

I have other options which I have been accepted too, but they are not true SMPs, so attending WCU is far more appealing because of it's set-up. Regardless if I [am accepted and] choose to attend, I hope they prosper and do well because after meeting some faculty it really seems like they are earnestly student-focused and dedicated to the University's and COM's mission.

 

[jslo85]

It depends on whether you are trying to enter allopathic or osteopathic SMPs.

Any "SMP" that is somewhat worth mentioning will probably require more than one LOR, one being an academic LOR from a science faculty as well as one (or more) from someone with credentials to evaluate you both as a person and your dedication/potential for medicine.

What appeals to you about a "true SMP" as opposed to other programs? RFU MBS is considered as a whole to be an SMP despite having part of their curriculum as graduate school courses with a few taken with the medical students. You state you are seeking only "degree granting" programs meaning you want the alphabet soup behind your name but you want a "true" SMP despite having poor stats. WCU-COM is an osteopathic program and virtually all COM SMPs are MBS programs if not certificate and a Masters of Biomedical Science entails a thesis/research emphasis which translates into you will be taking graduate biomedical research oriented classes (biomedical ethics, current biomedical research topics, etc) along with whatever other medical school courses that you will get into. It is not even stated that if you get back into WCU inside of it's program if they will let you transfer the credit. LMU-DCOM is a new program and even they require a glide year before getting the guaranteed interview despite being a 1 year program.

Furthermore, since you are interested in entering WCU-COM, I'm assuming you are interested in osteopathic medicine. DOs have yet to truly enter academic medicine and though many will argue otherwise, they are not strongly involved in research by any means compared to their allopathic counterparts. This may be due to many reasons but I won't go into that. A certificate program is purely medical school courses or medical school equivalent courses taught by the medical school faculty which is what you do need with such a poor GPA. Most certificate programs will offer you the choice of staying on for the second year to obtain the Masters degree, ie. LECOM/PCOM.

I don't know what other programs you have been accepted into, but choosing WCU-COM's master's program over any other established program at other reputable osteopathic schools (i'm assuming you have been accepted into one of these) is something I cannot comprehend through common sense. WCU-COM is for all practical purposes still a "proposed" osteopathic school which hasn't matriculated it's first class. If accepted into the Master's program, you will be apart of the prototype class where everything will most likely be done on the fly and disorganized. There has been plenty of previous evidence in starting up new "SMP" programs at osteopathic school where problems have arose. On these boards, people have been complaining about PCOM-GA's MBS program for the first 3-4 years about how many problems were arising. When CCOM MBS first took off, their own students complained about initial organizational and administrative issues. When Touro NY's MBS first started, they realized that a few of their promises that they had initially given their students weren't possible to be fulfilled the way they had planned.

Then you can also take into account that WCU has zero reputation as they haven't graduated a medical school class. For that matter they haven't even matriculated a medical school class either. Therefore you have zero stats to base how "successful" the program is into getting students into osteopathic school in general, you have no basis on determining what the faculty can promise or how many seats are reserved for students in the program, you have no idea how other schools in the region much less the nation will regard students coming out of such a new program/school, and you have no idea when and if interviews will be guaranteed.

Take for example PCOM PA's certificate program. They are taught by the same MS1-2 faculty, same lectures (more research emphasis as opposed to the clinical), and same exams. They also guarantee an interview. PCOM is also the #1 osteopathic school in the nation and their program is well regarded among virtually all other schools. Touro NY offers a 1 year Masters out of their Harlem campus with a guaranteed acceptance if you meet minimal requirements. Touro M.H.S. had a class of about 7-8 students last year and accepted 5-6 of them while allowing them to take classes with the OMS students. KCOM MBS accepts about 10 students combined from their anatomy and biomedical research track and virtually offers an unconditional acceptance if successfully completed. LECOM offers a guaranteed interview with a conditional acceptance provided you meet their minimal requirements.

To pass on all these programs offering far more advantages and reputation for WCU-COM is something I'm not understanding.

 

[TyrKinase]

For background info check out my MDApp: http://www.mdapplicants.com/profile.php?id=20310

First things first: you want to get into medical school and you need more coursework to make that happen. This new SMP may very well show that you can handle the work, but I think the first question you need to ask yourself is if your pre-SMP application data (cGPA, sGPA, MCAT, ECs, LoRs, etc) are in order. It'd be awful to do really well in your SMP only to get screened out from medical schools because of a low undergraduate GPA. I'm not trying to be a jerk; I faced the same dilemma some time ago and wish I had more seriously considered other non-SMP options.

Have you considered completing more undergraduate coursework? If you're interested in attending an osteopathic medical school, you may want to retake courses in which you performed poorly which, with AACOMAS grade replacement, could have a significant positive impact on your GPA. That would also give you a fair amount of time to retake the MCAT, which might not be as doable if you're enrolled in an SMP (due to the super busy schedule most SMP students have).

If nothing else, taking more undergraduate coursework and doing well may open up more doors down the road vis á vis more established SMPs.

Good luck!

 

[ahavah]

To pass on all these programs offering far more advantages and reputation for WCU-COM is something I'm not understanding.

Of course you don't understand, because there are many more details about my other options that I will not disclose. The purpose of this thread is to discuss potential problems with a new program. Thanks for your input. 🙂

 

[deleted248403]

I wouldn't touch a brand new program IMO. Esp at a place that is just opening as a med school itself - MD or DO regardless

Unless there is cost reasons or close to home reasons, it just doesn't make sense to risk your last chance to get to med school on an untested unproven program

 

[DrMidlife]

In my opinion, the downside with a new school is that the first four classes take on the overhead of figuring things out from scratch, without the benefit of established programs and relationships and community support and upperclassmen. It takes a ballsy, well-organized, outgoing student to succeed. We all think we're this student. But if you have issues you need to resolve with study skills, organization, time management etc., then you don't have time to be that ballsy outgoing student. You'll be setting yourself up to fail, most likely.

Best case, which you'd see in an expensive, well-organized new school that can attract competent staff and directors with experience, there'd be a 10% inefficiency penalty, compared to an established school. More likely, there'd be a 25% inefficiency penalty, where everything you need to do takes 25% more time/energy/insight/commitment/money than it would at a school that's had a few years to shake out the bugs.

Faculty enthusiasm and encouragement buys you nothing if the faculty can't organize an exam schedule, get you internet access, order textbooks on time, get you federal student loans in time to pay rent, etc.

Doing an SMP at a new DO school means you are putting everything you've got into a program with *no* reputation. To me it means you're betting on getting into the host DO school. I would not do such a program with the intention of getting into a different DO school, not with low undergrad numbers.

So you're making multiple bets: that you'll do well in the SMP, that doing well in the SMP will get you into the host DO school, and that you'll do well at the host DO school.

I recommend spending a bunch of time in the osteo forum reading feedback from students at programs like PNWU, RVU, ATSU-SOMA, Touro-NV, PCOM-GA and the other new schools. Find what the complaints are. The students who aren't complaining about *anything* are completely full of crap. Pay attention to the difference between the experience at a branch campus (PCOM-GA, ATSU-SOMA) vs. a brand new school. Hint: LECOM is *really* good at rolling out an efficient new branch school...and having a bunch of its students complain about how fascist the new school is...and then those students get killer residencies because LECOM doesn't mess around. Similar w/PCOM but less fascism.

In other words, be a smart consumer. You might have a bunch of choices, but are any of them *really* any good? You might want to give this some more time and go get some straight A's in more undergrad, to make yourself more competitive.

Best of luck to you.

 

[jslo85]

Of course you don't understand, because there are many more details about my other options that I will not disclose. The purpose of this thread is to discuss potential problems with a new program. Thanks for your input. 🙂

I don't know what other programs you have been accepted into, but choosing WCU-COM's master's program over any other established program at other reputable osteopathic schools (i'm assuming you have been accepted into one of these) .

You're absolutely right that I don't know what other options that you have, I was making an assumption (which I did write) that you had been accepted into other osteopathic SMPs.

If this was the case, then I was saying then it makes practical sense in any regard except location/tuition to attend the other established programs rather than WCU-COM.

Not to come off the wrong way in this, but there are very few osteopathic SMPs that I do not know details about as I had to apply to quite a few this round and was accepted/interviewed at several. After doing my own research and calling into other COM admission offices, I personally agree with Dr. Midlife's assessment as well as Tyrkinase's as well. Any SMP worth its value should only accept applicants that they deem suitable to enter medical school after successful completion of the program.

Good luck.

 

[nosleep2nite]

good luck!