Discouraged...Low Science Gpa

[KarmaKat83]

Hi Everyone,

I know this post has been created before a thousand times, so I apologize for repeating it again.

I'm a student at Barnard/Columbia U. and I have a science GPA of 2.34 and a non science gpa is 3.48. The way that Barnard is set up, you take the first semester of gen chem then the first semester of orgo chem with each corresponding lab. The second year of lab is optional. So I still need to take a second semester of orgo, and a second semester of general chemistry. However, if I did go into a post bacc program I would think that I would have to repeat the entire chemistry sequence? I have not taken physics yet, because I figured if I stopped now I would still be in a position to get into a post bacc program. My question is, is it still reasonable for me to consider a career in medicine. I know that the highest I can probably get my science GPA is at the most generous, a 3.0. However, although my science GPA is extremely low, I have worked hard for every grade I've received and I would hate to give up my dream of being a doctor because I couldn't "compete" with the Ivy League Vultures (joking). So is it realistic for me to consider a program like U Penn's Special Science Program? I'm not a science major so I'm not sure if I could get into a Masters of Science program. Although I know I shouldn't do this, but maybe I should try taking all the requirements again so I can at least get my science gpa higher and then take upper level courses? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time

~Katara

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[samurai_lincoln]

You are getting way ahead of yourself here, putting the cart before the horse, etc. etc. First off, you have only taken one year of science courses. While your GPA is low, you still have three years to pull them up, or at least two before you apply. As for post bacc programs, there are many different options: some where you start from scratch, taking all the prereqs; some are a "special masters" type program, and there is always the option of taking courses on your own to boost your GPA.

I think it is silly to stop taking science courses due to one bad year -- you would basically be admitting defeat. And I think you are selling yourself short. Two years of B+/A- work (3.5ish) would bring your science GPA well above the 3.0 mason-dixon line, into the 3.1 range. Obviously you could even exceed that with a stellar performance. With a strong upward trend, given your overall GPA you would be quite competitive. Bottom line: don't pack it in yet in hopes of postgrad redemption. Time is on your side.

 

[KarmaKat83]

Let me clarify myself, I'll be a senior next year and I have taken a full year of bio with lab, a full year of calculus, and a year of chemistry with lab.

~Katara

 

[junebuguf]

You don't need to panic--just have a sense of urgency about what you're doing, evaluate why you did so poorly in the first place and then proceed from there. First ask yourself why you tanked those classes--did you just not do the work? Did you skip a lot of lectures, miss labs and just give up at the end? Did you not follow along with the assigned reading materials and pile up too much work right before an exam (remember, for pre-req classes you just cant cram, its impossible)? If your answers to these questions is a resounding yes, then just develop better study habits for these classes (you seem to have done well in non-science classes, so may just have to retool your approach to Chem, Orgo and Physics. Remember, no cramming!) Also, be dligent, attend class regularly (even if you dont get anything out of lectures) and keep pace. If you follow these guidelines, I think you should retake Chem and Orgo and maybe even Bio (depending on how poorly you did). If you had gotten say a 3.0 in these classes, there would be no reason to retake them, but with a 2.34 science, you will probably need to prove ADCOMs that you could handle the material. I'm pretty sure that any pre-med advisor (ask the people at Columbia/Barnard) in any post-bacc program would recommend the same. And remember, all retakes factor into your AMCAS gpa, so taking Chem I and Orgo I again will help raise that science gpa. Also, dont worry about not taking Physics out of fear, if you just do the hard work required, you should be fine. Since you will be graduating, you might want to consider petitioning Barnard for a fifth year (if they allow it) to complete all the pre-reqs there while still completing your Bachelors. I recommend this solely out of fluidity--I have really patchy record of having taken classes everywhere, and it really doesnt look so good. Its better to complete as much of you post-bacc at Columbia/Barnard. Also, Columbia has an excellent post-bacc program, that I'm sure you've already heard of. Instead of going to Penn, considering acing a few credits of science (Orgo I and Chem I, Orgo II and Chem II), getting some good recommendations and applying there. A year of upper level sciences in Columbia's program, excellent volunteering opportunities in the city and Columbia's reputation and committee letter should get you in somewhere.

All of this assumes you just slacked in the first place....

...which brings me to the other scenario --you worked really hard but still did poorly anyway. In this case, I would recommend not taking any more than one science pre-req a semester, hiring a tutor, devoting a lot of extra time to the class, et. If you generally have trouble with science classes even with diligent work, you have a larger problem that may not be resolvable with a post-bacc program--what are you going to do at Penn when they make you take 15 science credits of Biochem, Physiology, Immuno, et? Address the reasons why you did poorly first, and then plan a course of action. If you find that you cant handle a rigorous curriculum no matter how efficient you are, you may seriously want to reconsider Medicine. I hate to dissapoint any fellow aspirant, but its far better to know you're not cut out for the profession now than drop out after your first year in med school.

Sorry about being all over the map with my advice, but I wanted to be thorough. Hope this helps.

 

[KarmaKat83]

Thanks for all the advice, I really appreciate it, but there are numerous reasons why I believe I did not do well in the sciences. Not to sound defensive, but I attended every single course, and studied my butt off for exams, however admittedly I"m not the best test taker. Second, competing with extremely bright students who had numerous advantages: such as the best schools, access to tutors, test prep courses etc, before they even entered college, is a reality, but a reality I wasn't ready for my first two years of college. Third, racial discrimination by some of my science professors, who feel doctors only fit a certain discription, and I not fitting that discription should call it quits. I really hate to sound like I"m making excuses, but for me all of these played a major part in how I internalized my abilities to do well in science courses. Once again thanks for the advice

~Katara

 

[samenewme]

Hmm....

Well, for the future, you could pursue a formal post-bacc, or create your own post-bacc by taking courses at some less expensive university a few at a time.

But in reading your most recent post, I do see a few red flags. With the exception of taking a while to adjust to college (and that I'm only inferring from the phrase, "a reality I wasn't ready for my first two years of college"), all the problems you describe will be the same, or worse, in med school: You'll be competing against the best and the brightest; you'll be taking a LOT of tests, a lot more than you take as an undergraduate; and if you're facing racial prejudice now, unfortunately it's very likely you will continue to do so as a med student, a resident, and a physician.

All these things are beyond your control. So you DO need to consider which of the things that ARE under control you can improve to allow you to overcome these obstacles: can you improve your grades by changing the way you study for the sciences? It's different from the social sciences and the humanities; you have to do a lot of practice problems every night in some courses, preferably including problems from the NEXT day's lecture; in others you may be better served forming a study group and explaining the concepts to each other to test your knowledge.

If you can figure out what you can do to maximize your performance now, there's no reason not to finish the sciences now and squeeze in a few advanced sciences to make up for the earlier bad grades, either as electives or by delaying graduation, or taking them elsewhere where it's cheaper. If you can't figure out how to improve your performance, then you have to ask yourself if a post-bacc will really work any better for you.

 

[dbuck64]

Hi Everyone,

I know this post has been created before a thousand times, so I apologize for repeating it again.

I'm a student at Barnard/Columbia U. and I have a science GPA of 2.34 and a non science gpa is 3.48. The way that Barnard is set up, you take the first semester of gen chem then the first semester of orgo chem with each corresponding lab. The second year of lab is optional. So I still need to take a second semester of orgo, and a second semester of general chemistry. However, if I did go into a post bacc program I would think that I would have to repeat the entire chemistry sequence? I have not taken physics yet, because I figured if I stopped now I would still be in a position to get into a post bacc program. My question is, is it still reasonable for me to consider a career in medicine. I know that the highest I can probably get my science GPA is at the most generous, a 3.0. However, although my science GPA is extremely low, I have worked hard for every grade I've received and I would hate to give up my dream of being a doctor because I couldn't "compete" with the Ivy League Vultures (joking). So is it realistic for me to consider a program like U Penn's Special Science Program? I'm not a science major so I'm not sure if I could get into a Masters of Science program. Although I know I shouldn't do this, but maybe I should try taking all the requirements again so I can at least get my science gpa higher and then take upper level courses? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time

~Katara

------------------------------
Hallo

I cannot answer all aspects of your question, but I can field one part - considering I'm applying just the same as you!

I spoke to an admissions board to determine if I'm doing enough to build my application. I can caution you on repeating some of those classes. Here's how one board feels about it: its quite worthless --> if you do not receive an A the second time around you are SUNK because, as the admissions Doc told me, you've 'already been around this block, if you cannot receive a A the second time around you do not belong here'

From my understanding of his words, they do not look highly on repeat attempts, just try your damnest to spruce up your application any way you can....Speak to the admissions board at a school....its referred to as 'a professional audit' they are there to help you!!


Dave

 

[liverotcod]

Perhaps a reasonable place to start is by taking the free practice MCAT online at e-mcat to get a sense of where you stand at this point in your studies. Even before completing your pre-req classes, I believe the MCAT is a pretty good indicator of med school success. You will need (in addition to improving your science GPA, which has already been discussed) approximately a 27-30 eventually on the MCAT to have a reasonable shot. It will take 6 hours, but might be worth it.

 

[medicomel]

As a Duke alum, I can tell you that I was discouraged by the "Ivy League-[type] vultures" and dropped pre-med altogether because I didn't feel I had the neurotic drive to compete. I can tell you that a less competitive but still respectable post-bac program may be the place for you. Or, maybe you could transfer to a state school now if you don't want to do a post-bac sequence. Once you realize that you're doing this at your own pace, and you're not racing or competing with anybody but yourself, you'll slow down and actually begin to enjoy what you're learning. Also, examine your study habits, like where you're studying and what kinds of distractions are around.

Good luck!
m

 

[KarmaKat83]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for the great advice. After reading all the posts, I think I'm still going to try for UPENN's special science program, I plan on applying to quite a few, but UPENN's my goal.

~Katara