Discoverpodiatry.org

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"Where are you getting your information that it is oversaturated?"
Anyone that practices outside of an academic/institutional setting knows it's oversaturated. It's self evident in the fact that most job offers are under $150k in medium to high cost of living areas. Maybe 200k if you're in a very high cost of living part of the country. And yes, I'm sure there are pockets of the country where this a lot of unmet demand such as the Rio Grande Valley, but are we really justifying opening more schools because there aren't enough podiatrists in the most rural/underserved communities? Cmon now. Nobody is dreaming of practicing in the middle of nowhere just to make a decent living.

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Lowkey wondering how much APMA dropped on AirBud. This might be the best promo their $4M website’s ever gotten.
 
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...the standardized 3-year residency was implemented to solve several problems (non-standardization, discrimination, and GME funding) and we won't be going backward to multiple residency types. The 4-4-3 model is the standard in American medicine (not set by podiatry) and if we want to be treated the same as any other doctor, we must adopt their model for parity. ...
Levi,

Nobody here cares what Apma will or won't do. This is your misconception: what Apma will choose ...versus what'd actually work for DPMs. Apma are the fools who made this bed (saturated job market, too many "surgeons," needless pod schools despite not enough quality apps, declining apma membership as many pods are struggling with horrible ROI and few jobs).

Apma needs tuitions to get Apmsa fees, to market their brand, to create future loyalists. They are basically working to feed VC at this point... wouldn't be surprised to see UpperLine and HealthDrive as platinum sponsors for the trash Apma journal or the next meeting???

Podiatrists out working simply need income, jobs, options, ROI. If they got success, they'd probably join Apma... but they're busy making loan minimums. You know this firsthand from the crummy jobs grads of residency/fellowship local to you take.

Tiered model works for dentistry and has for centuries. Podiatry is parallel (they have cleanings, we have RFC... both have rarer higher skill procedures). To propose 3yr residency to cut toenails and do wound care is pathetic; it'd merely set people up for failure with years of compounded debt and very few skills and little demand to create income with.

The non-surgical podiatry is stuff midlevels and Pcps do every day. They only send it to us if they're too busy or they happen to like us. Why put people $300k-$400k+ in debt to do that ppmr work? It's illogical.... unless you profit or obtain job security from podiatry schools, residencies (which you do). So, I suppose it makes sense to a myopic "academic"? Lol.

... (I am not representing the APMA, just aware of their plans) ...
Why do you say "we"?
 
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Somewhere around 40% of my patient visits on any given day are diabetic/geriatrics whose principle concerns are having their nails trimmed and hassling me about free shoes. So we're clear, is this what you're talking about when we talk about the amount of work available?

Exactly. There is a great deal of demand for at risk foot care, and this will probably increase with boomers retiring. However I don't believe there is enough demand for 500+ graduating surgical podiatrist per year. There's only about 700 ortho graduates per year and they aren't as anatomically limited. If we really want to improve the profession, take that 4 million dollars and use it to lobby to allow for RFC to be performed by a medical assistant under the supervision of a podiatrist. My dentist has 4 hygienists cleaning while she is performing fillings, this seems like a no brainer. A pipedream goal that I think would be helpful would be to increase our scope of practice to include wound care anywhere on the body. Not that I really want to treat sacral wounds (eww) but 100% I feel our training prepares us or could easily be modified to do so. This would further open up wound care positions to pods and allow us to expand into another kind of lobster area of medicine. I don't think it's as crazy as it may initially seem. Some of the states already allow some version of treating above the knee- warts, fingernails, etc. Finally limiting student pod enrollment by some percentage would seem to be a wise move as well. I'm open to discussion regarding how much of a cut.

I don't expect any significant changes to actually happen regarding oversaturation. One because leadership has to see this as a problem (which they don't) and then come up with a solution that may not be in their own best interest, which is admittingly hard. It does remain particularly infuriating that our leaders don't seem to at least acknowledge the threat of over saturation and poor ROI. I want to think the best of them, I wonder if part of the issue is they are insulated personally from the poor ROI (graduated a while ago) and their graduating residents/fellows are getting better jobs based on their reputation?
 
Wait, so you folks have the leadership of major professional organizations who’re good guys but are still talking heads for private equity? Did I somehow make you ophthalmologists? We’ve been playing that game for a while.

Alarm bells should be going off since that’s exactly how our job market became weird, and it’s not like most of you feel your current one is good. Certain locations became inaccessible unless you were willing to cut your earning potential in half while working harder for the suits. Now they keep trying to trick the new grads into feeding the machine at every turn.
 
Has anyone else noticed that the majority of people promoting podiatry are heavily involved in academia, residency programs, or educational roles?

The profession is severely saturated, yet those in secure academic positions continue to self-promote under the guise of advocacy. It’s frustrating and feels disingenuous.
I tried pointing this out and was accused of a character attack by… someone in a secure academic position.
 
"Where are you getting your information that it is oversaturated?"
Anyone that practices outside of an academic/institutional setting knows it's oversaturated. It's self evident in the fact that most job offers are under $150k in medium to high cost of living areas. Maybe 200k if you're in a very high cost of living part of the country. And yes, I'm sure there are pockets of the country where this a lot of unmet demand such as the Rio Grande Valley, but are we really justifying opening more schools because there aren't enough podiatrists in the most rural/underserved communities? Cmon now. Nobody is dreaming of practicing in the middle of nowhere just to make a decent living.

Sorry, I'm not in the RGV. I'm in San Antonio, the 7th largest city in the country.
 
"Where are you getting your information that it is oversaturated?"
Anyone that practices outside of an academic/institutional setting knows it's oversaturated. It's self evident in the fact that most job offers are under $150k in medium to high cost of living areas. Maybe 200k if you're in a very high cost of living part of the country. And yes, I'm sure there are pockets of the country where this a lot of unmet demand such as the Rio Grande Valley, but are we really justifying opening more schools because there aren't enough podiatrists in the most rural/underserved communities? Cmon now. Nobody is dreaming of practicing in the middle of nowhere just to make a decent living.

So where you get your information from ... is "self evidence"?
 
Ok, I just visited www.discoverpodiatry.org for the first time. Based on the way some of you posted in outrage, I thought surgery would be overemphasized.

And I should have known ... it's not. It appropriately positioned as a part of what a DPM does.

Stop being so dramatic.

Screen Shot 2025-05-27 at 10.36.37 PM.png
 
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Ty for the apology.

Now I’m off to see my 45 Medicaid nail patients you brag about being apart of your 1200 patient waiting lists. That’s 7$ a pop or 0.70$ a nail. If I work 21 days a week for 52 weeks I’ll generate 300k collections. Dope. You are slightly out of touch with private practice/groups and that’s what they are saying. 80-90% of pods work in PP. great keep your Medicaid patients in your que, I have loans to pay. 200$ for a chevron isn’t appetizing even trying to certify for boards. I think you make a lot of sense, but common. Dallas PP hiring for 120k, Houston 140k… brother they math ain’t mathing. Ambitious PAs with production bonus make more than 50% of new grads that’s a problem. God bless you for not going through that but it’s a reality for a lot of us. Inflation, housing prices, taxes, professional dues all increase. Not to mention the fake fellowships practices are making to manage their patients in exchange for cheap labor and another year of surgical hand holding. My friends average first year salaries are 140k…

No shame making 140k. Telling someone their bottom dollar is like 225k is fraud. You support that. Bernie Madoffs of podiatry. Luckily it’s only illegal to defraud well to do people and not students.
 
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Ok, I just visited www.discoverpodiatry.org for the first time. Based on the way some of you posted in outrage, I thought surgery would be overemphasized.

And I should have known ... it's not. It appropriately positioned as a part of what a DPM does.

Stop being so dramatic.

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Literally the largest font on the entire page

Then you got this followed by that fancy side-by-side chart

"If you’re looking for a career in surgery and direct patient care with a clear timeline and less uncertainty around matching into residency, podiatric medicine offers a streamlined, specialized path"

Sounds to me like they're pretty focused on the playing up the surgery part.
 
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San Antonio is as misleading about its size as Podiatry leadership is about starting income potential.

First, them’s fightin’ words.

Second, you’ve proven why “facts” in SDN podiatry posts by anonymous users shouldn’t be taken at face value. Mostly just conjecture and personal attacks based on opinions.
 

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View attachment 404185


Literally the largest font on the entire page

Then you got this followed by that fancy side-by-side chart

"If you’re looking for a career in surgery and direct patient care with a clear timeline and less uncertainty around matching into residency, podiatric medicine offers a streamlined, specialized path"

Sounds to me like they're pretty focused on the playing up the surgery part.

Podiatry trying to flex as a “faster” way to become a surgeon is honestly hilarious. There’s an old saying ; if you're not the most attractive person in the room, standing next to a supermodel doesn’t help your chances---it just makes the difference more obvious. Nothing screams desperation like comparing yourself to a profession you’re not even in the same league with.

Dress it up all you want, but the reality is hard to ignore: the field is oversaturated, the job market is bleak, and the 120-150k salary often doesn’t come close to justifying the $300K+ debt most students rack up. Now, with a fourth-year fellowship becoming the new norm just to stay competitive, the promise of a surgical career looks more like a moving goalpost.

If you're a student considering podiatry, don’t fall for the surface-level pitch especially from the folks promoting the profession while securing their own academic or administrative roles. Do a deep dive. Read the job threads. Talk to recent grads. Because the day-to-day may end up looking a lot more like grinding through toenails than scrubbing into the OR for complex trauma cases.
 

I asked ChatGPT to provide a more realistic version of the widely circulated comparison chart. Here's what it came up with.

A Realistic Comparison: MD/DO Surgical Specialty vs. DPM (Podiatry)​


CategoryMD/DO Path (Surgical Specialty)DPM Path (Podiatric Medicine)
Education & Training Time8 years minimum7 years minimum
Surgical TrainingElite hospitals and Elite training. get first pick of the juicy cases—Pilons, open fractures poly trauma, you name it.Lots of triple scrubbing on a hammertoe . VA hospitals. DPMs usually get what’s left after Ortho eats.
Residency Match Rate~93% overall match rate (2023 NRMP); varies widely by specialty due to high demand and competitivenessNear 100% for qualifying DPM graduates; less competitive due to smaller applicant pool
Scope of PracticeFull-body medical and surgical authority; flexibility to practice across all systems and subspecialize laterFoot and Ankle
Cost & ROIMedian debt ~$215K; much higher return in terms of salary and flexibility across healthcare systemsAverage debt $250K–$300K; limited to niche roles with variable ROI depending on geographic saturation
Earning PotentialMedian surgical specialist salary: $400K–$700K+ (orthopedics ~$600K, plastics ~$556K, general surgery ~$420K)Average DPM salary: $120K–$160K; Just go look at the job offers.
Career OutcomesVersatile, prestigious, and expansive: opportunities in academics, research, private practice, industry, and leadership. Can literally do anything with a MD.Clip toe nails, bunion surgery, Write articles for PM News on why flip-flops are a bad idea in November.

 
First, them’s fightin’ words.

Second, you’ve proven why “facts” in SDN podiatry posts by anonymous users shouldn’t be taken at face value. Mostly just conjecture and personal attacks based on opinions.
I’ll go on live stream with you reading emails about job offers. Only if you publish it on APMA/fancy website landing page. 10 offers 85k Maine large city to 175k super rural. One was by a close friend of the immediate previous APMA president about 125k. One 195k no bonus. No 250k for me. Some do get better offers, I currently am in talks with a health care system to start surgical podiatry closer to my home town in Rural America. Even with my 70k$ in savings it’s hard to get a business loan currently with no larger collateral because I’ve been studying feet at 45k a year. These are a lot of jobs listed on these pod advertising websites such as APMA. My buddies aren’t making 200k.

I am on track to make 230k year 1, hoping for 250k which is very unlikely probably need to trim some poor payers now that I’m booked out. This is 60 hours a week. I’m hustling, 130+ patients a week and billing in patient rounding/holy grail of delayed closures when warranted. If I was hospital employed I’d be making 350k+ in RVUs. Terrible benefits btw. My buddies weren’t as lucky.

I am happy with my profession/job, but it’s morally corrupt to ignore blaring issues. These are what is offered, if it’s a personal attack then stop posting false numbers. I’m with you on a lot of things when it comes to board unity but you are just as disingenuous as anonymous posters. One day there will be a bunch of woke grads and I hope they sue everyone for false advertisements. You are here making personal opinionated statements as a leader in the field without facts. go to APMA job listings. Have one of your residents apply to the jobs and tally the salary
Guarantee of every listed position, I bet it’s under 160k.
 
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I’ll go on live stream with you reading emails about job offers. Only if you publish it on APMA/fancy website landing page. 10 offers 85k Maine large city to 175k super rural. One was by a close friend of the immediate previous APMA president about 125k. One 195k no bonus. No 250k for me. Some do get better offers, I currently am in talks with a health care system to start surgical podiatry closer to my home town in Rural America. Even with my 70k$ in savings it’s hard to get a business loan currently with no larger collateral because I’ve been studying feet at 45k a year. These are a lot of jobs listed on these pod advertising websites such as APMA. My buddies aren’t making 200k.

I am on track to make 230k year 1, hoping for 250k which is very unlikely probably need to trim some poor payers now that I’m booked out. This is 60 hours a week. I’m hustling, 130+ patients a week and billing in patient rounding/holy grail of delayed closures when warranted. If I was hospital employed I’d be making 350k+ in RVUs. Terrible benefits btw. My buddies weren’t as lucky.

I am happy with my profession/job, but it’s morally corrupt to ignore blaring issues. These are what is offered, if it’s a personal attack then stop posting false numbers. I’m with you on a lot of things when it comes to board unity but you are just as disingenuous as anonymous posters. One day there will be a bunch of woke grads and I hope they sue everyone for false advertisements. You are here making personal opinionated statements as a leader in the field without facts. go to APMA job listings. Have one of your residents apply to the jobs and tally the salary
Guarantee of every listed position, I bet it’s under 160k.
@Dean’s Chat Make this happen. TED Talks wish they had this kind of heat
 
@Dean’s Chat Make this happen. TED Talks wish they had this kind of heat
I want it posted on APMA home page. Dr APMA can make it happen.

I am a happy pod, who is only angry at disingenuous salary documenting. I signed up expecting pods to make 200-250k. Right now I have more money than I can deal with, elevated me out of poverty. If I was told 250k and got offered 125k, I’d be heartbroken. I know what I got into and don’t regret it. However I will promote podiatry accurately as I care about it enough to not want others to be miserable.
 
I do not think the leadership who developed this campaign are "bad" people. I have met several of them and they seem to care tremendously and give tirelessly to the cause of podiatry as a whole. The fact that many of them are in business with PE is unfortunate, and it hurts their credibility for good reason. PE depresses the individual prospects of providers or professionals, that has been shown across all specialties and industries.

Other fields in medicine (PAs, pharmacy, PT) have been crushed by saturation. To deny this is to deny basic economics and blind yourself to a predictable future (or present).

The real problem we have is applicant and matriculate quality. We need smart people with good communication skills to continue what has been a tremendous rise of our field. We are not getting that now, it's in the statistics.

In a free market, I don't think the APMA can control the opening of new schools, so they are trying to increase applicants to improve the applicant pool/quality of student.

The problem they have and will continue to experience is this: if they succeed the schools will just increase their class size and the quality of student will decrease again. All of this is so simple to understand and has been happening in front of us all for years.

The market has responded. Schools increased tuition beyond the payoff. Students realized the investment was poor. At the same time new schools opened because we have no real control over that.

This problem will continue forever until our job market reaches the point that the investment becomes worthwhile. It does not have to be as good of an investment as medical school, but it needs to be worthwhile with lower risk than the current environment. We need to be a leaner profession if we want higher satisfaction. We need to reduce output which will increase the quality of training because less mouths to feed and more food to hunt when training is over. Then we need to normalize use of mid levels. A podiatry that functions in surgical wound care, sports medicine/surgery, and elective foot and ankle surgery would be an extremely popular career. If 3-4 schools closed, I really think we would all be better off in 5-10 years, including incoming students.

My experience, I am not disgruntled. I have a decent job but limited growth. I have done a lot of surgery and am fully abfas certified and did a competitive residency and fellowship. I've never made more than 250,000 and my ceiling is probably 300,000. It's not bad but I have been looking casually for a new job for 6 months. I will not do podiatry private practice or PE. I am not able to move my family. For 6 months I have looked every day for a reasonable option in my area, and I have not submitted a single application. Because there is nowhere to apply to at this time. If I were to lose my position, I would probably have to open up on my own.

The market will correct. I think schools will close. Podiatrist's will work for nearly every hospital system in the country. It will never be MD or DO, but it doesn't have to be. This is my optimistic view of the career.

The campaign by APMA could help if the schools did not increase seats. But they will if they can.
 
I do not think the leadership who developed this campaign are "bad" people. I have met several of them and they seem to care tremendously and give tirelessly to the cause of podiatry as a whole. The fact that many of them are in business with PE is unfortunate, and it hurts their credibility for good reason. PE depresses the individual prospects of providers or professionals, that has been shown across all specialties and industries.

Other fields in medicine (PAs, pharmacy, PT) have been crushed by saturation. To deny this is to deny basic economics and blind yourself to a predictable future (or present).

The real problem we have is applicant and matriculate quality. We need smart people with good communication skills to continue what has been a tremendous rise of our field. We are not getting that now, it's in the statistics.

In a free market, I don't think the APMA can control the opening of new schools, so they are trying to increase applicants to improve the applicant pool/quality of student.

The problem they have and will continue to experience is this: if they succeed the schools will just increase their class size and the quality of student will decrease again. All of this is so simple to understand and has been happening in front of us all for years.

The market has responded. Schools increased tuition beyond the payoff. Students realized the investment was poor. At the same time new schools opened because we have no real control over that.

This problem will continue forever until our job market reaches the point that the investment becomes worthwhile. It does not have to be as good of an investment as medical school, but it needs to be worthwhile with lower risk than the current environment. We need to be a leaner profession if we want higher satisfaction. We need to reduce output which will increase the quality of training because less mouths to feed and more food to hunt when training is over. Then we need to normalize use of mid levels. A podiatry that functions in surgical wound care, sports medicine/surgery, and elective foot and ankle surgery would be an extremely popular career. If 3-4 schools closed, I really think we would all be better off in 5-10 years, including incoming students.

My experience, I am not disgruntled. I have a decent job but limited growth. I have done a lot of surgery and am fully abfas certified and did a competitive residency and fellowship. I've never made more than 250,000 and my ceiling is probably 300,000. It's not bad but I have been looking casually for a new job for 6 months. I will not do podiatry private practice or PE. I am not able to move my family. For 6 months I have looked every day for a reasonable option in my area, and I have not submitted a single application. Because there is nowhere to apply to at this time. If I were to lose my position, I would probably have to open up on my own.

The market will correct. I think schools will close. Podiatrist's will work for nearly every hospital system in the country. It will never be MD or DO, but it doesn't have to be. This is my optimistic view of the career.

The campaign by APMA could help if the schools did not increase seats. But they will if they can.
Great post
 

90% of PM News readers say this website will not be very effective at recruiting students. But what's worse, if they're right? Or if they're wrong?
 
First, there is not an oversaturation of podiatrists for the amount of work available (foot and ankle problems), surgical or non-surgical. In fact, there is a growing need.

Dr. Rogers,

Unfortunately, in this forum these disgruntled podiatrists have no idea how great this profession is and could be if we embraced it. I am of the mind that we really need double the amount of podiatric graduates compared to orthopedists.

The problem is most people here fail to realize that for every person, we have 10 toes, two feet, two Achilles tendons, etc. Compared to some orthopedists who only operate on knees/hips, we have double/triple the surface area to work on! In our area, we currently have about the same number of podiatrist to orthopedic surgeon ratio, but we are improving this ratio for the benefit of our population.

I am not here to promote podiatry as a surgical subspecialty, which it is for the surgeons in our field. But, podiatry should rather be used as an instrument for the good of humanity. Being able to help a patient, and see them smile after having their nails trimmed or calluses debrided brings me immense joy and satisfaction in my day.

The problem is new graduates scoff at this work, and often find it demeaning. This is the issue with our new generation, and trying to show them how I practice podiatry is often difficult. I have heard them making fun of me when speaking at our practice meetings, often calling me "clipper man," or "TFP". It's disgraceful.

My call to my fellow attendings in this thread is PLEASE understand that we have domain over the foot and ankle, and we have more joints/surface area to work on than them. That is why there are more of us needed. Do not be ignorant to the needs of our society!

Thank you Dr. Rogers for all your hard work.
 
podiatry should rather be used as an instrument for the good of humanity. Being able to help a patient, and see them smile after having their nails trimmed or calluses debrided brings me immense joy and satisfaction in my day.
This is wonderfully earnest, yet somehow the architects of discoverpodiatry.org didn't devote much space to this sentiment. Surely they intend it as a surprise reward at the end of a challenging 7 year journey.

Thank you.
 
First, them’s fightin’ words.

Second, you’ve proven why “facts” in SDN podiatry posts by anonymous users shouldn’t be taken at face value. Mostly just conjecture and personal attacks based on opinions.
San Antonio juices its population count by expanding its borders and annexing land so that it can keep up with the state funding that the big boys Dallas and Houston gets. Compare a map of the city in 1950 compared to now— they had to double geographic size because the city has no density.

Metro size is a much better indicator of population density and size than city size. Any fool can tell you that the Bay Area is much larger than San Antonio even though SA has a larger population than San Francisco.

Putting “facts” in quotation marks doesn’t make them not a fact. It be what it be.
 
Dr. Rogers,

Unfortunately, in this forum these disgruntled podiatrists have no idea how great this profession is and could be if we embraced it. I am of the mind that we really need double the amount of podiatric graduates compared to orthopedists.

The problem is most people here fail to realize that for every person, we have 10 toes, two feet, two Achilles tendons, etc. Compared to some orthopedists who only operate on knees/hips, we have double/triple the surface area to work on! In our area, we currently have about the same number of podiatrist to orthopedic surgeon ratio, but we are improving this ratio for the benefit of our population.

I am not here to promote podiatry as a surgical subspecialty, which it is for the surgeons in our field. But, podiatry should rather be used as an instrument for the good of humanity. Being able to help a patient, and see them smile after having their nails trimmed or calluses debrided brings me immense joy and satisfaction in my day.

The problem is new graduates scoff at this work, and often find it demeaning. This is the issue with our new generation, and trying to show them how I practice podiatry is often difficult. I have heard them making fun of me when speaking at our practice meetings, often calling me "clipper man," or "TFP". It's disgraceful.

My call to my fellow attendings in this thread is PLEASE understand that we have domain over the foot and ankle, and we have more joints/surface area to work on than them. That is why there are more of us needed. Do not be ignorant to the needs of our society!

Thank you Dr. Rogers for all your hard work.
Really appreciate what you shared. You reminded me that even the small things we do in this field can make a big difference. Much respect.
 
First, them’s fightin’ words.

Second, you’ve proven why “facts” in SDN podiatry posts by anonymous users shouldn’t be taken at face value. Mostly just conjecture and personal attacks based on opinions.
Also what is your obsession with “anonymous users”? Real names vs. handles doesn’t make observations any more or less valid. Even if everyone put their real name next to the opinion, you’d still find a way to deflect a real answer as to why average starting income in this profession sucks.
 

I asked ChatGPT to provide a more realistic version of the widely circulated comparison chart. Here's what it came up with.

A Realistic Comparison: MD/DO Surgical Specialty vs. DPM (Podiatry)​


CategoryMD/DO Path (Surgical Specialty)DPM Path (Podiatric Medicine)
Education & Training Time8 years minimum7 years minimum
Surgical TrainingElite hospitals and Elite training. get first pick of the juicy cases—Pilons, open fractures poly trauma, you name it.Lots of triple scrubbing on a hammertoe . VA hospitals. DPMs usually get what’s left after Ortho eats.
Residency Match Rate~93% overall match rate (2023 NRMP); varies widely by specialty due to high demand and competitivenessNear 100% for qualifying DPM graduates; less competitive due to smaller applicant pool
Scope of PracticeFull-body medical and surgical authority; flexibility to practice across all systems and subspecialize laterFoot and Ankle
Cost & ROIMedian debt ~$215K; much higher return in terms of salary and flexibility across healthcare systemsAverage debt $250K–$300K; limited to niche roles with variable ROI depending on geographic saturation
Earning PotentialMedian surgical specialist salary: $400K–$700K+ (orthopedics ~$600K, plastics ~$556K, general surgery ~$420K)Average DPM salary: $120K–$160K; Just go look at the job offers.
Career OutcomesVersatile, prestigious, and expansive: opportunities in academics, research, private practice, industry, and leadership. Can literally do anything with a MD.Clip toe nails, bunion surgery, Write articles for PM News on why flip-flops are a bad idea in November.

Ok you win, let’s all quit now and go to MD/DO school and become real surgeons
 
Ok you win, let’s all quit now and go to MD/DO school and become real surgeons
Rather than quit, we will form the Department of Podiatry Efficiency (DOPE). DOPE will seek to produce a leaner profession with fewer graduates overall, but increasing the quality of graduates. DOPE will audit the schools and shut down underperforming institutions, reducing the overall matriculation by 50%. DOPE will audit the residency programs and shut down programs existing for attending labor and programs with low surgical volume, while also increasing the procedure volume required to graduate from residency. DOPE will pass laws to allow for routine foot care to be performed by nursing or nail techs under the supervision of podiatrists, thereby increasing availability of routine care despite the overall reduction in the number of graduating podiatrists. DOPE will work with CMS to simplify the CPT codes as noted below, reducing nail care fraud. DOPE will advocate to congress to make it illegal for PE or similar entities to own healthcare organizations including physician practices.

DOPE recommendations for routine care cpt codes, to be billed by techs or nursing under supervision of podiatrists:

P1110: Debridement of nails, any number for patients unable to perform on their own due to mental or physical limitation.

P1120: Debridement of calluses, any number for patients unable to perform on their own due to mental or physical limitation.

P2210: Debridement of nails, any number for patients with non-palpable pedal pulses or absent protective sensation

P2220: Debridement of calluses, any number for patients with non-palpable pedal pulses or absent protective sensation.
 
Rather than quit, we will form the Department of Podiatry Efficiency (DOPE). DOPE will seek to produce a leaner profession with fewer graduates overall, but increasing the quality of graduates. DOPE will audit the schools and shut down underperforming institutions, reducing the overall matriculation by 50%. DOPE will audit the residency programs and shut down programs existing for attending labor and programs with low surgical volume, while also increasing the procedure volume required to graduate from residency. DOPE will pass laws to allow for routine foot care to be performed by nursing or nail techs under the supervision of podiatrists, thereby increasing availability of routine care despite the overall reduction in the number of graduating podiatrists. DOPE will work with CMS to simplify the CPT codes as noted below, reducing nail care fraud. DOPE will advocate to congress to make it illegal for PE or similar entities to own healthcare organizations including physician practices.

DOPE recommendations for routine care cpt codes, to be billed by techs or nursing under supervision of podiatrists:

P1110: Debridement of nails, any number for patients unable to perform on their own due to mental or physical limitation.

P1120: Debridement of calluses, any number for patients unable to perform on their own due to mental or physical limitation.

P2210: Debridement of nails, any number for patients with non-palpable pedal pulses or absent protective sensation

P2220: Debridement of calluses, any number for patients with non-palpable pedal pulses or absent protective sensation.
I know of only one person qualified to be the director of DOPE, he’s the only triple board podiatric nail surgeon. Dam what was his handle again? If one applies to work for DOPE and gets rejected, do they get a NOPE letter?!
 
@Dean’s Chat Make this happen. TED Talks wish they had this kind of heat
Or just apply to all 12 of the jobs listed on podiatrycareers.org and see if you get a response.

If you really can’t look at the fact that there are only 12 jobs listed in the entire country and come to the conclusion that maybe saturation should be investigated, then I don’t think anything will change your mind regarding the issue.
 
Dr. Rogers,

Unfortunately, in this forum these disgruntled podiatrists have no idea how great this profession is and could be if we embraced it. I am of the mind that we really need double the amount of podiatric graduates compared to orthopedists.

The problem is most people here fail to realize that for every person, we have 10 toes, two feet, two Achilles tendons, etc. Compared to some orthopedists who only operate on knees/hips, we have double/triple the surface area to work on! In our area, we currently have about the same number of podiatrist to orthopedic surgeon ratio, but we are improving this ratio for the benefit of our population.

I am not here to promote podiatry as a surgical subspecialty, which it is for the surgeons in our field. But, podiatry should rather be used as an instrument for the good of humanity. Being able to help a patient, and see them smile after having their nails trimmed or calluses debrided brings me immense joy and satisfaction in my day.

The problem is new graduates scoff at this work, and often find it demeaning. This is the issue with our new generation, and trying to show them how I practice podiatry is often difficult. I have heard them making fun of me when speaking at our practice meetings, often calling me "clipper man," or "TFP". It's disgraceful.

My call to my fellow attendings in this thread is PLEASE understand that we have domain over the foot and ankle, and we have more joints/surface area to work on than them. That is why there are more of us needed. Do not be ignorant to the needs of our society!

Thank you Dr. Rogers for all your hard work.
Are you ****ing for real. All that surface area isn't awash in pathology, especially high paying pathology
 
Dr. Rogers,

Unfortunately, in this forum these disgruntled podiatrists have no idea how great this profession is and could be if we embraced it. I am of the mind that we really need double the amount of podiatric graduates compared to orthopedists.

The problem is most people here fail to realize that for every person, we have 10 toes, two feet, two Achilles tendons, etc. Compared to some orthopedists who only operate on knees/hips, we have double/triple the surface area to work on! In our area, we currently have about the same number of podiatrist to orthopedic surgeon ratio, but we are improving this ratio for the benefit of our population.

I am not here to promote podiatry as a surgical subspecialty, which it is for the surgeons in our field. But, podiatry should rather be used as an instrument for the good of humanity. Being able to help a patient, and see them smile after having their nails trimmed or calluses debrided brings me immense joy and satisfaction in my day.

The problem is new graduates scoff at this work, and often find it demeaning. This is the issue with our new generation, and trying to show them how I practice podiatry is often difficult. I have heard them making fun of me when speaking at our practice meetings, often calling me "clipper man," or "TFP". It's disgraceful.

My call to my fellow attendings in this thread is PLEASE understand that we have domain over the foot and ankle, and we have more joints/surface area to work on than them. That is why there are more of us needed. Do not be ignorant to the needs of our society!

Thank you Dr. Rogers for all your hard work.
You basically stand for what APMA is trying to cover up. I cut toenails too. I am the only guy cutting toenails in town. Doing the most surgery. I also get paid the least compared to others. Because I am booked out so far from nails/calluses. 😒 Payers aren’t great.
 
You basically stand for what APMA is trying to cover up. I cut toenails too. I am the only guy cutting toenails in town. Doing the most surgery. I also get paid the least compared to others. Because I am booked out so far from nails/calluses. 😒 Payers aren’t great.
So how about you don't do nails/calluses. Problem solved.
 
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Employed by a podiatrist yeah cutting nails. Employed by anyone else and they need to be educated on where your value is.
Because it's just that simple
Because we're in such great demand we have the luxury of turning away patients
Because bunions/hammertoes reimburse so well compared to c&c
Because we're so unsaturated
 
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