Discrimination on Step 2 CS in Atlanta

[CountryDoc]

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Does any white person feel they were discriminated against on Step 2 CS in Atlanta? My buddy and I were the only two white guys taking CS that day in Atlanta and only one or two of our standardized patients were white and we both failed. We have no idea what we did wrong. We did everything the NBME website and First Aid for CS said. It sounds extremely fishy to me. My school also mentioned that there has never been a female from my school that has failed CS (the girls at my school are not that good, trust me). That also sounds fishy. It took forever to register for the exam, forever to get the results back, forever to reschedule the exam, and who knows how long to get these results back. This has majorly screwed up our graduation and residency start dates. I appreciate your feedback. It will help my lawyer in his inverstigation of this matter.

 

[DarthNeurology]

I passed Step 2 CS and I am a white male, and there were females and even an african american teenagers standardized patient (he was a good actor too as I forgot it was just a test), . . . if anything I felt I had a slight advantage as there were many students from foreign countries like India who could not speak english as well as me. I think it helps to be positive and interested in the patients, if you are negative then it probably doesn't matter what race you are. You seem to be upset it took a long time to register, well , there aren't enough clinical sites, you have to be more positive. It took me a while to get back the results but they were within the correct time frame . . . so I have trouble understanding how someone can be upset when it is stated clearly on the website, sorry, . . .if you failed they probably checked the videos to make sure you failed, you also didn't mention which component you failed, if you failed the note portion then obviously race wasn't a factor. More foreign grads fail than US grads, so overall white guys fail less then non-white guys I would wager as most foreign grads who are male are not white. I doubt you have a legal case though. You just have to deal with failing and figure out how to improve for next time, the only practical solution is to re-take, do you plan to spend three years fighting a lawsuit that you most likely won't win while your chances for residency decrease each year? They would use the video of you in court too, and if you think you did "everything" (not possible in the time frame CS rewards "relative completeness"), think of expert attending witnesses the company will hire to critique everything you did during the examination they WILL grade you worse than what the real graders did to prove that you were incompetent or failed the examination. There are many FMGs/IMGs who didn't fail Step 2 CS who would gladly fill your residency spot while you fight this. . . I thought for sure I failed Step 2CS, but I passed, so maybe you thought for sure you passed i.e. did "everything" FA and NBME said then maybe you were over confident. Have you failed third year rotations or had problems with clinical work? Maybe there is something you can work on. BTW: The vast majority of white people pass Step 2 CS in Atlanta and everywhere else it is administered for that matter.

 

[chintu]

Sorry to hear about your situation. But I would have to side with the previous post. It is absolutely ludacris to even consider that you were discriminated against on the basis of being white...No one is going to have sympathy for you on that one. I also took my CS in atlanta not too long ago and I distinctly remember having ~6 white patients and 6 african american patients some of whom were teenagers. Roughly half of the students taking test that day were whites from us md schools, the rest were majority foreign from India. If you are going to argue that having fewer white patients worked against you then what about those FMGs?, I don't remember having any Indian or Asian standardized patient? If anything I feel for them, some of whom have never had any clinical experience in US, speak poorer english, and are in the minority (if race counts as you think). Statistics say that 96% of US MD students (majority whites) pass on their first try as opposed to ~83% or so FMGs. Sorry that you and your friend happened to be in that 4% but odds were strongly in your favor going into the test. I would strongly urge you as the previous post said to look at what portion of the test you failed and think about your weaknesses and mistakes that you made on the test so that you can work on it next time. If you think it helps, sign up for a different test center well in advanced the next time around. I would think that the residency program would be understanding in letting you start your intern year without passing this test and at some point during the year let you retake it. If not, then its really sad that a subjective test such as this could result in a delay in your residency. I would imagine you probably already checked with your school, but at my school only an attempted CS is required to graduate not an actual passing grade.

 

[SamusLives]

Sorry to hear to did not pass. I would have to agree with previous posts though, its unlikely you were discriminated against. Since AMGs pass at 98%, the only people who could claim "discrimination" are FMGs, who tend to fail the SEP. I'm pretty sure you speak english, so you didn't fail that portion.

ICE is history/physical and written note. H&P is check boxes, you either asked a question or you didn't, you either did a physical exam maneuver or you didn't. Your written note should follow the format in FA; if you just wrote "normal" instead of "normal S1/S2, regular rate and rhythm, no murmurs, rubs or gallops", then you might have done poorly on the written note portion. ICE is the most common for AMGs to fail.

CIS is watching out for patient modesty and comfort. You must show compassion, wash hands, answer tough questions, drape correctly and, make eye contact, introduce yourself, shake hands, etc. Once again, its all check boxes.

Anyway, I took it in Houston. There was mix of ethnic backgrounds for both patients and test-takers. We all had to cover up our names and school logos, to prevent any kind of favoritism/discrimination. I took it with a bunch of friends and we all passed. Don't know how you could win a lawsuit; you probably made mistakes you don't remember, and they have them on tape. Just retake it, pass it, and move on. It sucks, but you gotta do it.

BTW, what section did you fail?

 

[DarthNeurology]

Sorry to hear to did not pass. I would have to agree with previous posts though, its unlikely you were discriminated against. Since AMGs pass at 98%, the only people who could claim "discrimination" are FMGs, who tend to fail the SEP. I'm pretty sure you speak english, so you didn't fail that portion.

ICE is history/physical and written note. H&P is check boxes, you either asked a question or you didn't, you either did a physical exam maneuver or you didn't. Your written note should follow the format in FA; if you just wrote "normal" instead of "normal S1/S2, regular rate and rhythm, no murmurs, rubs or gallops", then you might have done poorly on the written note portion. ICE is the most common for AMGs to fail.

CIS is watching out for patient modesty and comfort. You must show compassion, wash hands, answer tough questions, drape correctly and, make eye contact, introduce yourself, shake hands, etc. Once again, its all check boxes.

Anyway, I took it in Houston. There was mix of ethnic backgrounds for both patients and test-takers. We all had to cover up our names and school logos, to prevent any kind of favoritism/discrimination. I took it with a bunch of friends and we all passed. Don't know how you could win a lawsuit; you probably made mistakes you don't remember, and they have them on tape. Just retake it, pass it, and move on. It sucks, but you gotta do it.

BTW, what section did you fail?

They make you cover up your name tag in Philly too, . . . but there was a guy with a turbin on who I could tell couldn't speak english well during the lunch break, but he probably passed too. I hear they will make the exam harder in the future though.

 

[chigrl08]

I took the test in Atlanta as well right before the tornado hit. I'd have to say that all the people taking the test with me were caucasian and I was the only asian. True that half of SP were caucasian and half were african american. I actually was worried I would get a lower score because I did not see any minorities such as asian people and we are often the invisible minority. I doubt any one will have sympathy for your situation because I took the test with all Caucasian applicants and I have a feeling the majority of them passed otherwise an investigation would happen on its own.

Honestly, you should investigate which portion you failed first before you think discrimination happened to you and whether you yourself made the patients feel comfortable as standardized patients you are treating. Also, how long did you study for it and did you ask the questions that were necessary because often times ppl blow off this test.

I do think that your situation is interesting though if it is true, but I must say that people of minorities experience discrimination frequently throughout their lives and live with it unfortunately because it is difficult to prove. In fact there was an article that stated that asian woman receive the lowest scores on clerkships and caucasian men receive higher scores on clinical clerkships in one study with no difference in test grades attributing it to the cultural differences.

Just take the test again, you will get your MD, nobody will care you failed the step 2 cs once, you will probably go on to be an amazing doctor.

 

[Doowai]

Yeah, Johnny Cochran could not convince a jury you were discriminated against as a white male.

Right now - if you are a white male, determine in your mind never to consider saying : 1) you are the victim of discrimination 2) you are the victim of sexual harrassment. It does not matter if you have video tape proving it - you will never pull that off. You will just come off sounding ludicrous even if you have a video tape.

You ARE a bitter white person - Barack Obama says so : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI77cU3jsFs

If a white person said the same things in reverse (about bitter black people or whatever), their heads would roll. Read JET magazine sometime and imagine the same thing in print, except published by TIME or something - it would be an outrage.

There is no affirmative action for whites, especially white males. There are no hiring incentives for white males - whereas the govt (such as post office) will hire women and ethnic groups over you time and time again.

Accept it , get over it and life will be easier for you.

The race card is not a card you can play in this game of life.

But there are plenty of other wild cards you can play

 

[joe6102]

Yeah, Johnny Cochran could not convince a jury you were discriminated against as a white male.

Right now - if you are a white male, determine in your mind never to consider saying : 1) you are the victim of discrimination 2) you are the victim of sexual harrassment. It does not matter if you have video tape proving it - you will never pull that off. You will just come off sounding ludicrous even if you have a video tape.

You ARE a bitter white person - Barack Obama says so : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI77cU3jsFs

If a white person said the same things in reverse (about bitter black people or whatever), their heads would roll. Read JET magazine sometime and imagine the same thing in print, except published by TIME or something - it would be an outrage.

There is no affirmative action for whites, especially white males. There are no hiring incentives for white males - whereas the govt (such as post office) will hire women and ethnic groups over you time and time again.

Accept it , get over it and life will be easier for you.

The race card is not a card you can play in this game of life.

But there are plenty of other wild cards you can play

👍 He speaks the truth.

BTW, large muscles do not equal good health. In fact, in will raise your BMI, which is correlated with cancer and heart disease. But good job on the body fat %.

 

[hatothebib]

sorry to hear your problem. i sent you a message countrydoc 👍

 

[Doowai]

👍 He speaks the truth.

BTW, large muscles do not equal good health. In fact, in will raise your BMI, which is correlated with cancer and heart disease. But good job on the body fat %.

My BMI is normal. Low body fat makes you look much bigger. A friend of mine 3 years ago was 305, wanted to train heavy to gain muscle and also do cardio to lose bodyfat - so that he could compete in bodybuilding. I convinced him to just lose body fat. He got down to 275(had lost 30 LBS) and looked much much much bigger. But still was not lean enough to compete. But nonetheless, losing 30 LBS made him look much bigger.

People who are fairly lean at say 14% bodyfat, are amazed how much fat they still carry around - a 220 LB guy at 14% can lose 9 LBS of fat, quite a glob, and still be 10% (probably just seeing the first 2 cuts in the abs). Of course I would not recommend women get that lean since they need more fat for good hormone status.

But I do not agree that a large BMI in and of itself causes cancer. I think it is GENERALLY true because most people with large BMI GENERALLY have a large amount of body fat, and fat produces estrogen and estrogen is linked to all sorts of cancers from breast to prostate. The most aggressive prostate cancers occur in men with low testosterone, higher estrogen.

But a person with a slightly higher than normal BMI that is mostly muscle probably does not have a higher cancer risk. Hard to do studies on that though, because it is rare.

Thanks though. I did a triathalon last year and was state 50 m free style swim champion (masters division - I am old, 46), last year. 2 weeks ago I placed 4th out of 10 in a strong man competition. I am a firm believer that is there is a panacea for health, it is exercise (except for few exceptions like myasthenia gravis)