Disorganized, Clumsy ADD in med school

[garrettp]

Note: The purpose of this post is NOT to solicit MEDICAL advice. I am here strictly to seek academic/professional guidance from current or past med students who may be able to relate or understand my situation.

Background: I was diagnosed with the inattentive type of ADHD when I was a kid. I took adderall in college, but the side effects seemed to outweigh the benefits -- and the other meds (concerta, Ritalin, etc) didn't work.

Although I'm not a stupid person and I did okay in college (>3.7 Gpa, low 500s mcat). I'm very distractable, clumsy, and disorganized. I'm really bad at filing papers, keeping things in order, and following complicated directions. My worst classes in college were labs because I'd always screw up the procedures by missing or misinterpreting a step. I'm now a pre-med who's in the process of applying the DO school.

I know that surgery is out of the question for me because of the above-described qualities... but I'm hoping medicine isn't. I'm super interested in psychiatry, because I want to help people with mental health struggles like myself.

Will I be able to survive med school? Do you know of people like me who managed to survive and succeed? Do you know of people like me who failed? What specialties would be best suited for somebody with my limitations?

Thank you, DO subforum!
Garrett

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[JustPass]

IMO, I think your GPA and MCAT shows you will at least be an average student, if not above average. That is speaking only in terms of scores.

Medical school will involve a lot for studying that you have ever done in your life (assuming you haven't gone through another professional school). I was never diagnosed with ADD or ADHD but I've definitely wasted a ton of time on youtube, TV, movies, and games during med school (wouldn't count exercise and peer activities as a waste of time but they do take away time from you too).
I ended up surviving so far but I constantly try to tell myself to get my **** together.

I'm sure you can do it. I am not going to recommend a specialty because I don't think I'm qualified to do so. But I'm just here to give a word of encouragement.

By the way, you wanting to go into psychiatry to help those in your similar situation is all good and all but you'll soon see (once you start clinical years) that psychiatry doesn't end up being all that you are thinking it would be. But that's just based on my 1 month of psych rotation and 1.5 years of general rotations overall.
Even as a family physician (or pediatrician), you'll be able to manage ADD/ADHD. You don't HAVE to go into psychiatry for that.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

IMO, I think your GPA and MCAT shows you will at least be an average student, if not above average. That is speaking only in terms of scores.

Medical school will involve a lot for studying that you have ever done in your life (assuming you haven't gone through another professional school). I was never diagnosed with ADD or ADHD but I've definitely wasted a ton of time on youtube, TV, movies, and games during med school (wouldn't count exercise and peer activities as a waste of time but they do take away time from you too).
I ended up surviving so far but I constantly try to tell myself to get my **** together.

I'm sure you can do it. I am not going to recommend a specialty because I don't think I'm qualified to do so. But I'm just here to give a word of encouragement.

By the way, you wanting to go into psychiatry to help those in your similar situation is all good and all but you'll soon see (once you start clinical years) that psychiatry doesn't end up being all that you are thinking it would be. But that's just based on my 1 month of psych rotation and 1.5 years of general rotations overall.
Even as a family physician (or pediatrician), you'll be able to manage ADD/ADHD. You don't HAVE to go into psychiatry for that.

You really should have just stopped at "you can do it." Psychiatry is a great specialty and it's extremely interesting. No need to steer someone away from it.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Honestly I think it's hard to say. I think it really will be entirely up to you and entirely something you'll figure out when you start to work in medical school. Have you considering possibly going to work with your school's learning specialist about how to be more organized and stay focused?

 

[JustPass]

You really should have just stopped at "you can do it." Psychiatry is a great specialty and it's extremely interesting. No need to steer someone away from it.

I'm not trying to steer anyone away from anything. I just spoke from my experience. Before medical school (even before clinical years), I thought certain diseases/problems were only cared by that particular specialty. But having been through most of med school now, I see that there are overlaps to a certain degree. I'm not saying family medicine can perform appendectomy but they can handle add/adhd or some other common problems. And it's not like OP was dead set on psychiatry either.
If OP had wanted to go into surgery, I would have said something about surgery. This isn't be bashing psychiatry, but just saying there is more to see than what I once saw as a premed. I was super interested in psychiatry myself. I majored in psychology in undergrad because I wanted to see how people's mind work and what I can do to help. But MY experiences showed that there are downsides of psychiatry (and every other specialties) and I am no longer interested in it.
Every specialty is a great specialty and every specialty is extremely exciting (well... i don't know about pathology... and yes, that's a joke). Why do you think I chose medine?
You really should have just replied saying something along the lines of "JustPass, you might have felt that way but I disagree" instead of trying to sound superior or w/e the reason.
Hey, may be I am trying to encourage OP to go into FM, what's so wrong with that? (not my intention because I seriously don't care what OP does).

But yes, I should have wrote that psychiatry MIGHT not be ....... instead of just claiming it won't be what he/she thinks it will be. That's was my intent rather than what I had wrote. Maybe that would have gotten a more pleasant response from you. I just saw that I was the first reply and got excite and typed too quickly!

 

[garrettp]

I'm not trying to steer anyone away from anything. I just spoke from my experience. Before medical school (even before clinical years), I thought certain diseases/problems were only cared by that particular specialty. But having been through most of med school now, I see that there are overlaps to a certain degree. I'm not saying family medicine can perform appendectomy but they can handle add/adhd or some other common problems. And it's not like OP was dead set on psychiatry either.
If OP had wanted to go into surgery, I would have said something about surgery. This isn't be bashing psychiatry, but just saying there is more to see than what I once saw as a premed. I was super interested in psychiatry myself. I majored in psychology in undergrad because I wanted to see how people's mind work and what I can do to help. But MY experiences showed that there are downsides of psychiatry (and every other specialties) and I am no longer interested in it.
Every specialty is a great specialty and every specialty is extremely exciting (well... i don't know about pathology... and yes, that's a joke). Why do you think I chose medine?
You really should have just replied saying something along the lines of "JustPass, you might have felt that way but I disagree" instead of trying to sound superior or w/e the reason.
Hey, may be I am trying to encourage OP to go into FM, what's so wrong with that? (not my intention because I seriously don't care what OP does).

But yes, I should have wrote that psychiatry MIGHT not be ....... instead of just claiming it won't be what he/she thinks it will be. That's was my intent rather than what I had wrote. Maybe that would have gotten a more pleasant response from you. I just saw that I was the first reply and got excite and typed too quickly!

I get your point. I'm not looking to pidgeon-hole myself. I'll go into med school with an open mind, and I'll wait to make a final specialty decision when im doing rotations.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Note: The purpose of this post is NOT to solicit MEDICAL advice. I am here strictly to seek academic/professional guidance from current or past med students who may be able to relate or understand my situation.

Background: I was diagnosed with the inattentive type of ADHD when I was a kid. I took adderall in college, but the side effects seemed to outweigh the benefits -- and the other meds (concerta, Ritalin, etc) didn't work.

Although I'm not a stupid person and I did okay in college (>3.7 Gpa, low 500s mcat). I'm very distractable, clumsy, and disorganized. I'm really bad at filing papers, keeping things in order, and following complicated directions. My worst classes in college were labs because I'd always screw up the procedures by missing or misinterpreting a step. I'm now a pre-med who's in the process of applying the DO school.

I know that surgery is out of the question for me because of the above-described qualities... but I'm hoping medicine isn't. I'm super interested in psychiatry, because I want to help people with mental health struggles like myself.

Will I be able to survive med school? Do you know of people like me who managed to survive and succeed? Do you know of people like me who failed? What specialties would be best suited for somebody with my limitations?

Thank you, DO subforum!
Garrett

You will. I certainly get along without meds fine. There are newer options out there if you want to go down that path. I know some of the top students at my school did use the meds. Of course, I also know some of the lower performers used meds as well. Just got to find something that works. For me its a timer and keeping track of my 'rounds' on a spreadsheet. With one round being equal to 25 on, 5 minute break. I would vary the amount of time I was doing as I lengthened the session to get used to longer test (boards), but 25 minutes active learning always = a round for me.

Also avoid things that suck you in like a black hole (sdn, but especially youtube) is important as well. When I was board prepping I had a very nice puzzle game that I would do on my breaks. It was completely different, but I didn't have a hard time stopping. On a normal day I would get about 4-6 hours of active learning, in board prep/day before exam time that went up to 8-13.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I'm not trying to steer anyone away from anything. I just spoke from my experience. Before medical school (even before clinical years), I thought certain diseases/problems were only cared by that particular specialty. But having been through most of med school now, I see that there are overlaps to a certain degree. I'm not saying family medicine can perform appendectomy but they can handle add/adhd or some other common problems. And it's not like OP was dead set on psychiatry either.
If OP had wanted to go into surgery, I would have said something about surgery. This isn't be bashing psychiatry, but just saying there is more to see than what I once saw as a premed. I was super interested in psychiatry myself. I majored in psychology in undergrad because I wanted to see how people's mind work and what I can do to help. But MY experiences showed that there are downsides of psychiatry (and every other specialties) and I am no longer interested in it.
Every specialty is a great specialty and every specialty is extremely exciting (well... i don't know about pathology... and yes, that's a joke). Why do you think I chose medine?
You really should have just replied saying something along the lines of "JustPass, you might have felt that way but I disagree" instead of trying to sound superior or w/e the reason.
Hey, may be I am trying to encourage OP to go into FM, what's so wrong with that? (not my intention because I seriously don't care what OP does).

But yes, I should have wrote that psychiatry MIGHT not be ....... instead of just claiming it won't be what he/she thinks it will be. That's was my intent rather than what I had wrote. Maybe that would have gotten a more pleasant response from you. I just saw that I was the first reply and got excite and typed too quickly!

In family medicine you're going to take care of psychiatric, cancer, post-surgery, etc patients. That's why it's a general medicine field, you're not supposed to do everything, but instead be the integrating team member of a persons whole care. So yes, you're going to have patients on stimulants and you're going to run tests such as EKGs because they're on stimulants, and you're going to also help them with their ADHD and general health. But it's a disorder that psychiatry should chiefly handle and diagnose. Just like how I won't get any training in cardiology during my residency doesn't mean I cannot read an EKG well, there's a clear difference between the clinical acumen between an individual who has trained in how to diagnose and handle mental illness and a field that largely has no formal built in psychiatric training or evaluation.

Any who I'm not going to derail this thread any further. I think family medicine is a wonderful career and field and the OP may end up in it, I'll end it there.

 

[Stagg737]

Will I be able to survive med school? Do you know of people like me who managed to survive and succeed? Do you know of people like me who failed? What specialties would be best suited for somebody with my limitations?

Yes, you can survive medical school. Plenty of people succeed with these conditions without meds, I'm one of them. In retrospect I kind of wish I had seen someone and tried out medications as it could have been much easier, but I'm doing fine in residency and still no meds so likely won't start now.

I do know people who failed and it was almost always because they sought help too late or didn't seek help at all. Utilize the learning specialists, counselors, and faculty. They are there to help you succeed and great resources that many people don't use.

Plenty of specialties would work for you. I would probably advise against certain surgical fields (like neurosurgery) which require fine attention to detail, but I wouldn't even rule out most surgical fields until you've rotated through them.


Final thing, the biggest hurdle you will have in medical school is staying organized and efficient. Those skills are by far the most important things to develop in order to be successful in med school, even more important than intelligence or work ethic. So you'll need to make sure you're taking steps to ensure you can do this. For some it just means implementing a planner with a set schedule and being disciplined enough to stick to it. For others it may mean staying on medications. If you feel like you can't do that without meds, I'd advise you to see a psychiatrist (not an FM) who is decent with ADHD medications and have them work with you to figure out a good regimen. As was previously said, there's a lot more options than just the basics (adderall and ritalin) and concerta now, so I wouldn't hesitate to seek treatment if you feel like you need it.

 

[JustPass]

In family medicine you're going to take care of psychiatric, cancer, post-surgery, etc patients. That's why it's a general medicine field, you're not supposed to do everything, but instead be the integrating team member of a persons whole care. So yes, you're going to have patients on stimulants and you're going to run tests such as EKGs because they're on stimulants, and you're going to also help them with their ADHD and general health. But it's a disorder that psychiatry should chiefly handle and diagnose. Just like how I won't get any training in cardiology during my residency doesn't mean I cannot read an EKG well, there's a clear difference between the clinical acumen between an individual who has trained in how to diagnose and handle mental illness and a field that largely has no formal built in psychiatric training or evaluation.

Any who I'm not going to derail this thread any further. I think family medicine is a wonderful career and field and the OP may end up in it, I'll end it there.

To be clear, I'm not advocating OP to go into FM (like I said, I don't really care what OP does). FM was just an example of a field that treated what OP had envisioned treating in the future. I just stated that certain things overlap and he/she doesn't have to particularly go into psychiatry to deal with pts with add/adhd. AND, I did say he/she can manage it. Diagnosing someone of ADHD or other psychiatric issue maybe a different story. I wouldn't feel comfortable with it but who am I to say a certain physician should or not do?
What you've said on the response I completely agree with. But I don't know what value that adds to the conversation. I'm fully aware of how much FM can treat certain things and they need to refer things out. I'll get my lectures from somewhere else. I'm just stating the fact that OP will see pts with adhd even as FM and he/she doesn't have to limit their career choice down to psych.
I've seen many kids get (or not get) diagnosed with adhd by their pediatrician. Should they have gone to a psychiatrist? Maybe but it wasn't 100% necessary. If you'd like to have the last word, go ahead. But let's end it here for sake of others.

 

[libertyyne]

In family medicine you're going to take care of psychiatric, cancer, post-surgery, etc patients. That's why it's a general medicine field, you're not supposed to do everything, but instead be the integrating team member of a persons whole care. So yes, you're going to have patients on stimulants and you're going to run tests such as EKGs because they're on stimulants, and you're going to also help them with their ADHD and general health. But it's a disorder that psychiatry should chiefly handle and diagnose. Just like how I won't get any training in cardiology during my residency doesn't mean I cannot read an EKG well, there's a clear difference between the clinical acumen between an individual who has trained in how to diagnose and handle mental illness and a field that largely has no formal built in psychiatric training or evaluation.

Any who I'm not going to derail this thread any further. I think family medicine is a wonderful career and field and the OP may end up in it, I'll end it there.

just wanted to add, a majority of Psychiatric medications in this country are prescribed by Primary care physicians. Its not like psychiatry is a field that is renown for its exactitude in diagnosis and protocol.


OP you may consider yourself clumsy and disorganized, and may even have a diagnosis. However your grades and mcat say you are capable of completing medical school. Your peers might be just as disorganized and clumsy or absentminded.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

just wanted to add, a majority of Psychiatric medications in this country are prescribed by Primary care physicians. Its not like psychiatry is a field that is renown for its exactitude in diagnosis and protocol.


OP you may consider yourself clumsy and disorganized, and may even have a diagnosis. However your grades and mcat say you are capable of completing medical school. Your peers might be just as disorganized and clumsy or absentminded.

There are more PCPs than psychiatrists so...

 

[drhop]

Note: The purpose of this post is NOT to solicit MEDICAL advice. I am here strictly to seek academic/professional guidance from current or past med students who may be able to relate or understand my situation.

Background: I was diagnosed with the inattentive type of ADHD when I was a kid. I took adderall in college, but the side effects seemed to outweigh the benefits -- and the other meds (concerta, Ritalin, etc) didn't work.

Although I'm not a stupid person and I did okay in college (>3.7 Gpa, low 500s mcat). I'm very distractable, clumsy, and disorganized. I'm really bad at filing papers, keeping things in order, and following complicated directions. My worst classes in college were labs because I'd always screw up the procedures by missing or misinterpreting a step. I'm now a pre-med who's in the process of applying the DO school.

I know that surgery is out of the question for me because of the above-described qualities... but I'm hoping medicine isn't. I'm super interested in psychiatry, because I want to help people with mental health struggles like myself.

Will I be able to survive med school? Do you know of people like me who managed to survive and succeed? Do you know of people like me who failed? What specialties would be best suited for somebody with my limitations?

Thank you, DO subforum!
Garrett

Would it help you to know that ACEP and other Clinical Studies have repeatedly observed that greater than 50% of Emergency Physicians have ADD?
You have done wonderful so far!

Let it not be an obstacle to your dreams!



Sent from my SM-J730GM using SDN mobile

 

[Candidate2017]

By the way, you wanting to go into psychiatry to help those in your similar situation is all good and all but you'll soon see (once you start clinical years) that psychiatry doesn't end up being all that you are thinking it would be. But that's just based on my 1 month of psych rotation and 1.5 years of general rotations overall.
Even as a family physician (or pediatrician), you'll be able to manage ADD/ADHD. You don't HAVE to go into psychiatry for that.

Med school inpatient psych rotations are good at giving students an appreciation of what severe mental illness looks like, but not much else.

 

[Candidate2017]

just wanted to add, a majority of Psychiatric medications in this country are prescribed by Primary care physicians. Its not like psychiatry is a field that is renown for its exactitude in diagnosis and protocol.


OP you may consider yourself clumsy and disorganized, and may even have a diagnosis. However your grades and mcat say you are capable of completing medical school. Your peers might be just as disorganized and clumsy or absentminded.

I get a fair percentage of patients presenting like OP and almost never diagnose them with ADHD. I recommend therapy and coping skills, but they disappear and I assume they end up at their PCP for Adderall.

 

[libertyyne]

There are more PCPs than psychiatrists so...

yes, but by your logic they shouldnt be giving out any psychiatric medications or providing any psych care. so...

 

[Stagg737]

yes, but by your logic they shouldnt be giving out any psychiatric medications or providing any psych care. so...

Frankly many of them shouldn't be with some of the ridiculous and terrible treatments they give as well as some of the things I've heard attendings say in regards to their patient's "diagnosis".

 

[libertyyne]

Frankly many of them shouldn't be with some of the ridiculous and terrible treatments they give as well as some of the things I've heard attendings say in regards to their patient's "diagnosis".

im sure you can say the same about other psychiatrists. The option is to get treatment from a pcp or to not get treatment I know what I would prefer, Also considering depression is one of the most prevalent conditions that can be improved with treatment.

Also, isnt there a huge problem regarding clinician concordance in diagnosis in psychiatry. The last paper I read that there was discordance close to ~25%.

 

[Stagg737]

im sure you can say the same about other psychiatrists. The option is to get treatment from a pcp or to not get treatment I know what I would prefer, Also considering depression is one of the most prevalent conditions that can be improved with treatment.

Also, isnt there a huge problem regarding clinician concordance in diagnosis in psychiatry. The last paper I read that there was discordance close to ~25%.

I can, but not to the same extent as PCPs. I've only seen a couple truly outrageous treatment plans from psychiatrists, meanwhile I've seen plenty from PCPs (and worse, mid-levels) which make me question if they even attended medical school. Valid point about lack of access though. Generally speaking I'd rather them get treatment, but as I posted in another thread if they're going to be getting prescribed Xanax for ADHD I'd rather them not get the treatment at all.

I'd be interested to read the paper on discordance, as I can see that being an issue but I'd guess it's likely d/t differences in diagnostic opinion (which really comes down to how accurate is your history).

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I can, but not to the same extent as PCPs. I've only seen a couple truly outrageous treatment plans from psychiatrists, meanwhile I've seen plenty from PCPs (and worse, mid-levels) which make me question if they even attended medical school. Valid point about lack of access though. Generally speaking I'd rather them get treatment, but as I posted in another thread if they're going to be getting prescribed Xanax for ADHD I'd rather them not get the treatment at all.

I'd be interested to read the paper on discordance, as I can see that being an issue but I'd guess it's likely d/t differences in diagnostic opinion (which really comes down to how accurate is your history).

There are some pretty crazy psychiatry plans I've seen. But honestly lots of ppl are bad doctors, that's not just a psych issue.

My line of thought with most psych conditions is if they can afford it and can get an appointment reasonably then they should go over exclusive treatment by primary care.

yes, but by your logic they shouldnt be giving out any psychiatric medications or providing any psych care. so...

There's a difference between offering SSRIs, SNRIs, Welbutrin, and some others ( mainly the sleep stuff) and offering benzos, antipsychotics, and stimulants.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Would it help you to know that ACEP and other Clinical Studies have repeatedly observed that greater than 50% of Emergency Physicians have ADD?
You have done wonderful so far!

Let it not be an obstacle to your dreams!



Sent from my SM-J730GM using SDN mobile

Is that why their differentials/workups are always incomplete*?





****And suck 😛

 

[drhop]

Is that why their differentials/workups are always incomplete*?





****And suck 😛

Ha!ha !
It is not the exam, it's the Training!
Emergency Physicians are trained to think differently and always " the worse case scenarios " for every patient that comes to the ER."
Multitasking and being constantly disturbed whilst documenting leads to errors and the fear factor of having forgotten some weird presentation of let's say a patient with "Dizzyness" doesn't help!
It is always where you trained they matters in the end....





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