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In Opt school do we have to do full cadaver disections or just head/sinus? Or are any required at all?
Dissection in School?
- Thread starter Dominic
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At SUNY, we work with pre-dissected cadavers. Our anatomy class only deals with the thoracic cavity, neck and head.
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At NEWENCO, we worked with pre-dissected cadavers (3 or 4 cadavers per class) as well. It was a comprehensive dissection for the most part, with greater focus on the head in neck. Though it was fun and educational, I question how necessary it was.
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The body is all connected & we need to have a general understanding of all the working parts. Because we are doctors, patients ask us systemic questions all the time. We need to be able to answer them because often times we are the only healthcare provider they go to regularly.
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I dont think there are cadavers at PCO..from what I remember from the tour...they use computers and it's on there instead. ..This is what I remember. Maybe there are some dissections but I dont think there are whole body ones at all there.
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rpames said:
I'm just curious as to how an anatomy dissection will enable one to answer the systemic questions an eye patient might have. I don't disagree that patients might ask you questions outside of the realm of the eye, but I'd hope that the first answer would be that they need to see a primary care MD or DO. Just being called 'Doctor' doesn't make one qualified for that. There are many types of 'doctors' that should not be attempting to answer questions meant for a physician, and furthermore it depends on the type of physician. Patients usually don't know the difference, though. 😎
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The dissection and general anatomy is only a small part of the systemic education ODs receive. Of course looking at a body would not qualify us to answer questions regarding heart medications (but I honestly believe you, an optho residant, would not know much more then I concerning these heart Rx). But, combining anatomy with our pathology, physiology, and biochemistry classes can help us to explain many health related questions. I would never end a systemic conversation with a patient without referring them to their PCP if they had anymore concerns. My post was attempting to outline the need for a well rounded education. You can not treat the eye without understanding the general anatomy, pathology, and physiology of the entire body. Although I would find it silly for us to cut up the foot, I can see the importance to the dissection and study of the trunk, neck, and head. Basically I'm trying to convey that we need to study vastly beyond the eye to be good at our jobs.
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ppa93 said:
Dude, calm down. Of course it is a stereotype and a generalization. Those are not evil words. GENERALLY speaking (hence the generalization), people do not understand what education the eye doctor had, whether medical school, internship, and ophthalmology residency, or optometry school. Almost none of the patients I have seen in the large county hospital that serves our major metropolitan area knew what type of 'doctor' was seeing them, nor the patients at the VA hosptial. They don't ask, they just trust that we're the right people to be helping them. Believe me, I don't underestimate patients and I don't think they're stupid, I'm just being realistic in knowing that it is not common knowledge everywhere.
"Heathcare providers are supposed to answer the questions patients might have. " You use the term healthcare provider too broadly, I think. This is all hypothetical, since it would depend on the type of question the patient had, but I certainly disagree that ALL healthcare providers, regardless of type, should be answering healthcare questions regardless of the provider's area of expertise. Having taken a year of two of basic science courses such as biochem, physiology, microbiology doesn't qualify ANYONE, even MD/DO students to speak with authority in answering general healthcare questions...that takes additional training and patient interaction with supervision...many more years worth, actually.
And I think for certain healthcare providers to even be attempting to answer certain types of questions beyond their training with a sound of authority in their voice would border on unethical. I know I will fight the temptation to offer advice that I think is right if it is not within my expertise, but tell them who to see, instead.
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Tx guy seems to be very civil in all his posts...let's treat him with the same amount of respect he's been giving us. Plus, I think some answers should be saved for after you have completed any amount of optometric education...I know from your previous posts that you have not yet started (neither have I, but I keep my "expert advice" to myself). Your acting this way doesn't portray optometrists or optometry students in a very good manner.
ppa93 said:
Actually i aint going to Optometry school. I am just fooling around with u guys. I am a future MD student in SABA, yet I dont think MDs are superior over OD just because they have more trainings and better qualifications.SuperSara said:
Oh well, Never trust the internet. I can be anyone I want to be lol. You never know who I really am LOL.
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as one of my attendings always said " there is more in your chair than a pair of eyeballs"
UHCO has pre-dissected cadavers. we do head and neck mostly.. and a few weeks of thoracic.. plus half a semester of histo.
UHCO has pre-dissected cadavers. we do head and neck mostly.. and a few weeks of thoracic.. plus half a semester of histo.
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ppa93 said:
My opinion is that your posts are neither helpful nor funny ("lol"), they are not thoughtful nor grammatically sound. If you have no intention to attend optometry school, I feel they are one thing for sure: a waste time for you and everyone who has to read them. Best of luck getting into med school
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ppa93 said:
If you're not going to optometry school, why did you refer to optometrists in the first person?
"We do treat eye diseases. An example of which will be Glaucoma. we can even specialize in pathology if u havent known. DO SOME RESEARCH."
Like I said I can say anything i want. I just dont like people who are extreme. IF you are talking about how bad Optometrists are, I will defend them. IF you are talking about how bad MDs are, then I will defend them. As for me, all of them are equally important. This will be my last post because I am quitting Student doctor.net because I feel like this is a place where u get brainwashed.Tx Guy said:
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Getting back to the topic at hand
at UAB we do dissect quite a few times during the first year. Dissections include a sheeps eye in physiology of the eye, a human eye in anatomy of the eye, a human cadaver in gross anatomy and a human brain in MedNeuro.
During anatomy we worked in groups of 4 or so to dissect a human cadaver.
Our class of 40 students had 8 or 9 cadavers. These dissections focused on the head and neck, though there was a very brief overview of the thoracic cavity and abdomen as I remember. Also if I remember correctly, we spent a week or so in Medical Neuroscience dissecting a human brain.
I think that it was incredibly important to do dissections on human cadavers. I learned more, by far, in the lab than I ever learned in the classroom concerning anatomy. Lets face it, for me at least, anatomy is a hands on subject. No matter how good the Netter atlas is, I had a hard time visualizing and understanding the complexity of the subject until I was able to see it first hand. To be honest I am not sure how much anatomy you can learn without doing dissections or at least seeing the cadaver. My class spent hours upon hours in the anatomy lab studying.
Anatomy lab gave me a great respect for the complexity that is the human machine. I for one understand what a privilege it was to dissect a cadaver first hand. While a few people were slightly traumatized at first, everybody in my class made it through just fine. A week into class we were so overwhelmed with how much material there was to learn that we almost forgot that what we were looking at was once a living breathing person.
I for one am frankly quite surprised to hear that not more optometry schools have their students do dissections. I think it is a critical portion of the curriculum at UAB. Though I could be wrong, my guess is that at most schools dissections are not considered unimportant, but rather it is a lack of resources that prevents students from doing dissections, or at least seeing cadavers.
During anatomy we worked in groups of 4 or so to dissect a human cadaver.
Our class of 40 students had 8 or 9 cadavers. These dissections focused on the head and neck, though there was a very brief overview of the thoracic cavity and abdomen as I remember. Also if I remember correctly, we spent a week or so in Medical Neuroscience dissecting a human brain.
I think that it was incredibly important to do dissections on human cadavers. I learned more, by far, in the lab than I ever learned in the classroom concerning anatomy. Lets face it, for me at least, anatomy is a hands on subject. No matter how good the Netter atlas is, I had a hard time visualizing and understanding the complexity of the subject until I was able to see it first hand. To be honest I am not sure how much anatomy you can learn without doing dissections or at least seeing the cadaver. My class spent hours upon hours in the anatomy lab studying.
Anatomy lab gave me a great respect for the complexity that is the human machine. I for one understand what a privilege it was to dissect a cadaver first hand. While a few people were slightly traumatized at first, everybody in my class made it through just fine. A week into class we were so overwhelmed with how much material there was to learn that we almost forgot that what we were looking at was once a living breathing person.
I for one am frankly quite surprised to hear that not more optometry schools have their students do dissections. I think it is a critical portion of the curriculum at UAB. Though I could be wrong, my guess is that at most schools dissections are not considered unimportant, but rather it is a lack of resources that prevents students from doing dissections, or at least seeing cadavers.
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Dominic said:
it all depends on the school, but most schools teach more than you need to know. half the stuff isn't even important for the profession....but you'll need to bring that up with the educators.
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I fully agree UABopt, i had the same experience here a Nova. I really developed a three deminsional awarness of the human system that I don't feel you can learn from a text book(or atleast I didn't) .
Here at Nova there are predisected human cadavers, that we used for the gross anatomy course. the first half of the semester was the entire system, while the second half just focused on the head and neck in more detail. Our lab had about 16 full cadavers which were share with our 100 OD students, but our exams were in another cadaver lab to ensure that we really knew the material. The following semester we had neruoanatomy with predisected human half brains and brainstems.
Here at Nova there are predisected human cadavers, that we used for the gross anatomy course. the first half of the semester was the entire system, while the second half just focused on the head and neck in more detail. Our lab had about 16 full cadavers which were share with our 100 OD students, but our exams were in another cadaver lab to ensure that we really knew the material. The following semester we had neruoanatomy with predisected human half brains and brainstems.
