Dissociative Identity Disorder (specifically child alters)

[Ceke2002]

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This is something I've been curious about for a while now, and I was hoping I could spark a discussion on the subject.

Throughout various mental health support forums, when it comes to Dissociative Identity Disorder the one thing I've noticed, on a fairly consistent basis, is when someone, who's allegedly been diagnosed with DID has one of their very young child alters come out, the way they write, as that child altar, reads more like how an adult might interpret a child's way of writing, rather than the writing of an actual child - if that make sense.

For Example:

Writing samples from an actual 6 year old

I had a Kitten but he ran away his name is Scotty but we have a new cat now
but my family still loves him even no we sill have a new cat Scotty was good.

A polor bear has three cubs it eats a deer a polar bear has sharp teeth and the cubs do to.

~~~~~~~~~

Writing sample from an alleged 6 year old alter (paraphrased example only to protect anonymity)

Plese me wan make frinds me 6 me is reely gud girl you bee my frind mabe I can bee you frind to dat bee fun

---------------------------------------------------------

So what is actually happening brain wise or psychology with these child personalities or alters? Is the person with DID subconsciously, or unconsciously, recreating in their own mind how they think a child of a certain age would speak and/or write? Is it the person's brain manifesting it's own interpretations based on learning and input regarding child behaviour it might have received (through TV, movies, books, gatherings, observations of children, and so on) over the years? Or is it actually a fully fledged child personality that has come forth, as if the brain/mind/psyche has completely reverted back to the particular age of the alter (so that if you were to compare the brain and/or brain scans of a 6 year old child, & a 6 year old alter, there would be no discernible difference?

Please discuss 👍

 

[sunlioness]

DID is, in my opinion, largely an iatrogenic phenomenon and the reason "child alters" don't actually talk or write like real children is because they're not. They are precisely an adult trying to sound like a child, either consciously or subconsciously.

Others may disagree as it's a very controversial topic. And one I've pretty much done a complete 180 on in the years since residency. (People reading this who knew me as a resident are probably reading this and scratching their heads.). 🙂

 

[michaelrack]

? Is the person with DID subconsciously, or unconsciously, recreating in their own mind how they think a child of a certain age would speak and/or write?

Is it the person's brain manifesting it's own interpretations based on learning and input regarding child behaviour it might have received (through TV, movies, books, gatherings, observations of children, and so on) over the years?

Or is it actually a fully fledged child personality that has come forth, as if the brain/mind/psyche has completely reverted back to the particular age of the alter (so that if you were to compare the brain and/or brain scans of a 6 year old child, & a 6 year old alter, there would be no discernible difference?

yes
yes
no

 

[whb2]

Well, I am in the process of writing and publishing the first true story in the world about blackout and dissociation, titled "What Happened? Who Am I?"

As a result of the blackout, I am now one of the latest bloomers in the United States of America.

The dissociation was to the point that I temporarily lost my true identity and, in the midst of being lost, formed a second character in my defense. My 'true self' that was disconnected during my near 10-year blackout, however, remained the same age (mentally and physically) and in the same mind during those 10 years (which is one of the primary causes of being so late into adulthood, both physically and mentally). I first dissociated in early adolescence, and then I reverted/resorted back to childhood and remained there while disconnected (dissociated). Being dissociated, I lost my true self and was unable to develop that self or develop a fully functional second character.

My opinion, based on my experience, is that the patient/individual is consciously/subconsciously imitating what he/she perceives to be the way children speak/write as your example shows by the way children don't baby talk when writing.

However.

Perhaps the 'child alter', unable to notice the above, developed a baby-talk writing style from some sort of verbal connection in the mind that caused he/she to write the same way their 'child alter' speaks (so not subconsciously recreating, but subconsciously connecting their 'child alter's way of speaking to their way of writing).

 

[Ceke2002]

As a result of the blackout, I am now one of the latest bloomers in the United States of America on Gallifrey.

The dissociation was to the point that I temporarily lost my true identity and, in the midst of being lost, formed a second character in my defense. My 'true self' that was disconnected during my near 10-year blackout, however, remained the same age (mentally and physically) and in the same mind during those 10 years (which is one of the primary causes of being so late into adulthood, both physically and mentally). I first dissociated in early adolescence, and then I reverted/resorted back to childhood and remained there while disconnected (dissociated). Being dissociated, I lost my true self and was unable to develop that self or develop a fully functional second character.

Fixed it for you 😉

 

[Internet_person]

Sorry for the ancient thread resurrection:
-Child alters are ego constructs ( in the sense that your solitary self is an ego construct ) built to hold a trauma or a specific set of traumas...encapsulate them, and then get left behind.

They are not and never were entire, functional children and expecting them to act as such ignores what a child alter is for....also that it began as a child's copy of a child ( in a manner of speaking )

They were ancillaries to allow a child to survive and/or fake normalcy and ( usually, but not always ) emotionally bond with parental figures who were putting the child's life in danger.
The emotional bond with parents is needed for normal neurocognitive development ( as you know ), so children may do some interesting psychological gymnastics when said parents are doing horrible, life-threatening stuff to the child, or allowing others to do the same.
Not all kids exposed to extreme trauma manage to adapt this way, either.

...Some alters are not even conceptualized by (it)self or host as human...

Pardon the intrusion. If you're just doing med adjustments this really does not matter. I just ask, as a consumer of both psychiatric and regular medicine, that I not get sneered at?

Note the " ask." I don't always receive it, and to trust my health or sanity to someone who can't be bothered to respect me is deeply disturbing.

Thanks.

 

[Mad Jack]

What's actually happening is these personalities don't exist.

 

[Wilf]

It's just borderline personality.

 

[hamstergang]

If we're going to resurrect an old discussion, I may as well give my previous response:

I think this is a decent take on the issue: http://edition.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/expert.q.a/02/23/dissociative.identity.disorder.raison/, by Dr. Charles Raison, a psychiatrist at Emory (I know nothing about him outside this article).

"There is no doubt that some people behave as if they have multiple personalities. And not all of them have been to therapists who have trained them to interpret their dissociative experiences in this way. Does this mean that dissociative identity disorder exists? In my opinion it depends on what we mean by 'exists.' Yes, dissociative identity disorder exists if by exists we mean there are people who complain of its symptoms and suffer its consequences. Do I think that some people have many biologically distinct entities packed into their heads? No. I think that some people dissociate so badly that either on their own or as a result of therapeutic experiences it becomes the case that the most convincing way for them to see their own experience is as if it is happening to multiple people."

I think the important question is, how does it affect treatment if we view DID as it's own entity vs PTSD + BPD? The same author continues from above: "I am personally less sanguine, however, about treatments that proceed as if each of the separate personalities really exists concretely and then work to integrate them again." But I personally don't know much about the treatment issues here so I'll leave that to others.

 

[smalltownpsych]

Yes, it probably exists but it appears to be pretty rare and what I have seen isn't like what you see on tv. Most of the patients I have seen who state that they have it probably don't. I also agree that it seems to be a variant or extreme example of Borderline PD or PTSD as a result of early childhood trauma. Interestingly, the dissociation appears to work so well that these patients tend to be very pleasant and calm most of the time as opposed to the more typical patient with Borderline PD who tends to be more emotionally volatile.

disclaimer - I'm talking about experiences with just s few patients here so not wanting to imply that is the case for all or even most

 

[Ceke2002]

Yes, it probably exists but it appears to be pretty rare and what I have seen isn't like what you see on tv. Most of the patients I have seen who state that they have it probably don't. I also agree that it seems to be a variant or extreme example of Borderline PD or PTSD as a result of early childhood trauma. Interestingly, the dissociation appears to work so well that these patients tend to be very pleasant and calm most of the time as opposed to the more typical patient with Borderline PD who tends to be more emotionally volatile.

disclaimer - I'm talking about experiences with just s few patients here so not wanting to imply that is the case for all or even most

I tend to agree, I have a few support group friends who claim to have DID but there's only one of them who I think is actually legit (the rest are like some sort of histrionic, borderline parody of DID). I can see how it might develop though. I had to learn to disassociate at certain times in my childhood (basically to stop my Mum performing a particular punishment on me), and although it was never to the point that I split off into different parts, or anything like that, I can see how disassociating could lead to something like that happening, or feeling like it was happening.

 

[HarryMTieboutMD]

Here is the best review on the subject from Carol North at UTSW (though Wash U trained) who is an authority in psychiatric diagnosis:
http://www.mdpi.com/2076-328X/5/4/496/pdf

Clinically, Borderline PD, dissociative states, Somatoform (hysteria), and conversion disorders all fall under an "o-form" category- they have definite medical, neurological, and psychiatric symptomatology that is inconsistent with illnesses with a known pathophysiological basis or in the case of borderline/dissociative states clinical presentation, delimitation from other illnesses, family studies, and longitudinal course (eg borderline "hallucinations" are not manifestations of actual psychoses). Nevertheless these patients often have psychiatric comorbidity, the interpretation of which is often contentious. Here is the best paper on THAT subject: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8942457

 

[deleted343839]

DID is, in my opinion, largely an iatrogenic phenomenon and the reason "child alters" don't actually talk or write like real children is because they're not.

A memorable patient from my training years acquired a "child alter" and a disturbing set of false memories after a stint at McLean. Fortunately the patient had enough insight to consider alternative explanations, though the mental imagery was harder to shake and became quite intrusive.