DMD vs. MD, why did you choose MD?

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sddat

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  1. Pre-Dental
I am looking to the honesty of you all to help me out on a serious question..I am currently predental and I am taking the DAT this summer. I am scared to death that I am making the wrong decision because I really love both medical and dental. Please let me know why you all chose MD over DMD? I know some of you probably think I should just "know", but unfortunately I don't. I truly have interests in both.

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First off, everyone has diff. interests/opinions/likes dislikes. So donot change your path depending upon what people say here. You are coming to an MD forum asking people to compare the two objectively?

I will give one reason: Dental is limited. Just my opinion.
 
MD
+ Can save someone's life. Dental emergencies are usually not life threatening.
+ Can work on every part of the body but the teeth.
+ Much wider range of specialties to choose from
- Can't do dentistry

DMD
+ If you love teeth and you're sure that's what you want to do the rest of your career, this is the way to go
+ Dentistry pays well and has good working hours. You're guaranteed this from day 1 of dental school, while a medical student has to match a competitive ROAD specialty in order to get hours and pay comparable to dentistry.
+ If a patient is dying, you send them to a doctor. Not responsible for life support above ACLS.
- Rarely save someone's life, and you only do teeth your entire career. Cannot change specialties to anything that doesn't involve teeth without going to medical school.
 
^Thank you for the great post. Among other things, it seems that the main factor for you would be, saving someone's life? That seems very admirable. Thank you for your input 🙂
 
First off, everyone has diff. interests/opinions/likes dislikes. So donot change your path depending upon what people say here. You are coming to an MD forum asking people to compare the two objectively?

I will give one reason: Dental is limited. Just my opinion.

Yeah, I just want to see how pre-meds think about their future choice. I really do not know what makes a person choose. But I just want to see individual responses. The two professions are so often compared to each other as first choice and second choice. Which I have never done. I just seemed to lean towards dentistry because I like teeth and I can see myself working on the mouth specifically. But I worry a lot that I am missing out on the chance of entering the medical field where there are many different options for specializing.
 
^Thank you for the great post. Among other things, it seems that the main factor for you would be, saving someone's life? That seems very admirable. Thank you for your input 🙂

Dude, most doctors have never saved a life in their life... medicine sounds glamorous as a premed, but talk to any resident/doctor, and they'll tell you that 99.999% of what they do is routine checkups, following procedure, and pretty much doing anything that any other doctor can do.

Don't go in it if you wanna save lives, because from what I hear, you'll be very dissapointed...

Also, some advice I found very helpful from this forum: if you can see yourself doing anything other than medicine, then don't do medicine.

Some positives for dentistry:
+work your own hours after your're done
+work right after you're done with professional school
+it's easy to open up your own practice and be independent
+very good money
+once you're in, you're in. You don't have to worry about getting good grades to match into a good residency

Negatives:
-teeth
 
Do general dental practioners have to do a residency, or do they start making money from graduation day? If they don't have to do residency, that's a huge advantage. M.D. graduates have to do a minimum of 3 years of residency. During residency, pay is very low, and residencies are infamous for having extremely brutal working hours. I don't suppose even dentists in a surgical residency have to do call, do they?

While in the long run, 3 years might be a drop in the bucket, it's practical to finish dental school and enjoy the high salary when you're young, isn't it?
 
Dude, most doctors have never saved a life in their life... medicine sounds glamorous as a premed, but talk to any resident/doctor, and they'll tell you that 99.999% of what they do is routine checkups, following procedure, and pretty much doing anything that any other doctor can do.

Don't go in it if you wanna save lives, because from what I hear, you'll be very dissapointed...

Also, some advice I found very helpful from this forum: if you can see yourself doing anything other than medicine, then don't do medicine.

Some positives for dentistry:
+work your own hours after your're done
+work right after you're done with professional school
+it's easy to open up your own practice and be independent
+very good money
+once you're in, you're in. You don't have to worry about getting good grades to match into a good residency

Negatives:
-teeth

Thank you for your post. It was REALLY helpful. I think you are right, I might sit back one day and say..man I could have, should have..but I don't know if my heart is truly in it right now. With dentistry, I know that I want to do it and I know what I am getting into. Again, great points. Thanks!
 
Do general dental practioners have to do a residency, or do they start making money from graduation day? If they don't have to do residency, that's a huge advantage. M.D. graduates have to do a minimum of 3 years of residency. During residency, pay is very low, and residencies are infamous for having extremely brutal working hours. I don't suppose even dentists in a surgical residency have to do call, do they?

While in the long run, 3 years might be a drop in the bucket, it's practical to finish dental school and enjoy the high salary when you're young, isn't it?

I believe the residency is much shorter than in medical. I might be wrong, but somewhere around a year or less. Thank you for your input 🙂
 
the dental lifestyle is enticing, but for me I was just much more interested in disease of the human body as opposed to cavities.
 
You will find that, generally, the better the lifestyle, the less prestigious you are viewed by the public. For instance:

- Radiologists are often not even viewed as doctors.
- Ophthalmologists are sometimes referred to as "eye-dentists" and are less regarded by the lay-public than are other doctors.
- Dermatologists ranked dead last in a survey out of ten specialties in ascribed esteem, perceived income, and assigned social value, suggesting that dermatologists are less well regarded by the public than are other doctors.

The irony you find is that some of the very most competitive medical “lifestyle” specialties don’t even carry the prestige of being a “doctor”. When most people think of a doctor, they think of a family physician – the least competitive medical specialty there is – but also one of the more prestigious doctors in a lay-person’s eyes.

The higher up the ladder you go to “save” a person’s life and gain that respect and “prestige”, the more of your life you have to give up. Heart surgeons, orthopedic surgeons, neurosurgeons, etc. are all well-regarded by the public but don’t come with a great lifestyle. The point is – don’t think that just because you choose the medical school route that you’ll be saving lives or highly regarded by the public. If you go into medicine to choose a lifestyle specialty, chances are you won’t!
 
Um I chose MD because I have no desire to be a dentist. Mouths are gross. And don't a lot of dentists kill themselves? Not cool
 
Um I chose MD because I have no desire to be a dentist. Mouths are gross. And don't a lot of dentists kill themselves? Not cool
I agree that mouths are gross. But...isn't surgery more gross? Aren't bloody arms and broken limbs, "gross"? I mean isn't it all the same? This..I don't understand. Not trying to start a debate, just in need of some clarification.
 
Dude, most doctors have never saved a life in their life...

If you mean in the ER or Gray's Anatomy life saving procedure or surgery with someone yelling clear after defibrillating a coding patient, then you're probably correct, but doctors do save lives every day in what they do, whether it is the radiologist finding a tumor on CT, or a CT surgeon fixing a heart valve, or a radiation oncologist treating thyroid cancer, etc.
 
don't a lot of dentists kill themselves? Not cool


PERCENTAGE OF DEATHS DUE TO SUICIDE
U.S. white male population 25 and older (1970): 1.5
U.S. white male dentists (1968-72): 2.0 (85 of 4,190)
U.S. white male medical doctors (1967-72): 3.0 (544 of 17,979)
U.S. white male population 25 and older (1990): 2.0
U.S. white male medical doctors (1984-95): 2.7 (379 of 13,790)
(Sources: Vital Statistics of the United States--1970, National Center for Health Statistics, Table 1-26, "Deaths from 281 Selected Causes, by Age, Race, and Sex: United States, 1970"; death certificates from 31 states, reported in "Mortality of Dentists, 1968 to 1972," Bureau of Economic Research and Statistics, Journal of the American Dental Association, January 1975, pp. 195ff; death reports collected by the American Medical Association, reported in "Suicide by Psychiatrists: A Study of Medical Specialists Among 18,730 Physician Deaths During a Five-Year Period, 1967-72," Rich et al., Journal of Clinical Psychiatry, August 1980, pp. 261ff.; Vital Statistics of the United States--1990, National Center for Health Statistics, Table 1-27, "Deaths from 282 Selected Causes, by 5-Year Age Groups, Race, and Sex: United States--1990"; National Occupational Mortality Surveillance database, reported in "Mortality Rates and Causes Among U.S. Physicians," Frank et al., American Journal of Preventive Medicine, Vol. 19, No. 3, 2000.
 
You will find that, generally, the better the lifestyle, the less prestigious you are viewed by the public. For instance:

- Radiologists are often not even viewed as doctors.
- Ophthalmologists are sometimes referred to as "eye-dentists" and are less regarded by the lay-public than are other doctors.
- Dermatologists ranked dead last in a survey out of ten specialties in ascribed esteem, perceived income, and assigned social value, suggesting that dermatologists are less well regarded by the public than are other doctors.

The irony you find is that some of the very most competitive medical “lifestyle” specialties don’t even carry the prestige of being a “doctor”. When most people think of a doctor, they think of a family physician – the least competitive medical specialty there is – but also one of the more prestigious doctors in a lay-person’s eyes.

The higher up the ladder you go to “save” a person’s life and gain that respect and “prestige”, the more of your life you have to give up. Heart surgeons, orthopedic surgeons, neurosurgeons, etc. are all well-regarded by the public but don’t come with a great lifestyle. The point is – don’t think that just because you choose the medical school route that you’ll be saving lives or highly regarded by the public. If you go into medicine to choose a lifestyle specialty, chances are you won’t!

Oh yes I agree with all of this.
 



PERCENTAGE OF DEATHS DUE TO SUICIDE
U.S. white male population 25 and older (1970): 1.5
U.S. white male dentists (1968-72): 2.0 (85 of 4,190)
U.S. white male medical doctors (1967-72): 3.0 (544 of 17,979)
U.S. white male population 25 and older (1990): 2.0
U.S. white male medical doctors (1984-95): 2.7 (379 of 13,790)
(Sources: Vital Statistics of the United States--1970, National Center for Health Statistics, Table 1-26, "Deaths from 281 Selected Causes, by Age, Race, and Sex: United States, 1970"; death certificates from 31 states, reported in "Mortality of Dentists, 1968 to 1972," Bureau of Economic Research and Statistics, Journal of the American Dental Association, January 1975, pp. 195ff; death reports collected by the American Medical Association, reported in "Suicide by Psychiatrists: A Study of Medical Specialists Among 18,730 Physician Deaths During a Five-Year Period, 1967-72," Rich et al., Journal of Clinical Psychiatry, August 1980, pp. 261ff.; Vital Statistics of the United States--1990, National Center for Health Statistics, Table 1-27, "Deaths from 282 Selected Causes, by 5-Year Age Groups, Race, and Sex: United States--1990"; National Occupational Mortality Surveillance database, reported in "Mortality Rates and Causes Among U.S. Physicians," Frank et al., American Journal of Preventive Medicine, Vol. 19, No. 3, 2000.


So that's saying that more physicians kill themselves? If I am lucky enough to become a dentist, I will have these facts somewhere in my office because I really do not understand the hangup on suicide. Even if it were true, is that a reason not to go in a profession? Who cares who commits suicide more or less. You could say that about whole races of people. Is that a reason not to want to be white vs. black? It is very rare for a black woman to commit suicide.
 
since you guys are tossing out such great stats...

I recently read that there are

5 applicants for every 2 spots in med school

14 applicants for every 1 spot in vet school

...

anyone have the numbers for dental school?


(source: book written by a vet, "tell me where it hurts," 2008)
 



PERCENTAGE OF DEATHS DUE TO SUICIDE
U.S. white male population 25 and older (1970): 1.5
U.S. white male dentists (1968-72): 2.0 (85 of 4,190)
U.S. white male medical doctors (1967-72): 3.0 (544 of 17,979)
U.S. white male population 25 and older (1990): 2.0
U.S. white male medical doctors (1984-95): 2.7 (379 of 13,790)
(Sources: Vital Statistics of the United States--1970, National Center for Health Statistics, Table 1-26, "Deaths from 281 Selected Causes, by Age, Race, and Sex: United States, 1970"; death certificates from 31 states, reported in "Mortality of Dentists, 1968 to 1972," Bureau of Economic Research and Statistics, Journal of the American Dental Association, January 1975, pp. 195ff; death reports collected by the American Medical Association, reported in "Suicide by Psychiatrists: A Study of Medical Specialists Among 18,730 Physician Deaths During a Five-Year Period, 1967-72," Rich et al., Journal of Clinical Psychiatry, August 1980, pp. 261ff.; Vital Statistics of the United States--1990, National Center for Health Statistics, Table 1-27, "Deaths from 282 Selected Causes, by 5-Year Age Groups, Race, and Sex: United States--1990"; National Occupational Mortality Surveillance database, reported in "Mortality Rates and Causes Among U.S. Physicians," Frank et al., American Journal of Preventive Medicine, Vol. 19, No. 3, 2000.

LOL Epic
 
since you guys are tossing out such great stats...

I recently read that there are

5 applicants for every 2 spots in med school

14 applicants for every 1 spot in vet school

...

anyone have the numbers for dental school?


(source: book written by a vet, "tell me where it hurts," 2008)


Oh I have heard of this one for a while now. There are only 24 vet schools, I might not have that number exactly correct. It's somewhere around 25 ish. There are only around 50 dental school, so it's pretty competitive. however not as competitive as medical or vet, but it's up there.
 
since you guys are tossing out such great stats...

I recently read that there are

5 applicants for every 2 spots in med school

14 applicants for every 1 spot in vet school

...

anyone have the numbers for dental school?


(source: book written by a vet, "tell me where it hurts," 2008)

http://bellevuecollege.edu/advising/FAQs Professional schools08-2005.htm

This is only a single school (UW, not sure which UW), but in this case the application to acceptance rate for vets is like twice of mds.
 
Dentists do have better earnings due to less school debt (although I disagree with he above comment that they make more than Drs).
My gripe with it is its huge limitation and incredibly repetitive nature. It seems like it is just fill cavities, do root canals all day every day. If you got into it and hated it, then too abd ebcause that is the only option available. Medicine has many subfields that are all distinct from each other as well as academic/teaching pathways as well. I mean, we dont work this hard jsut to pigeon-hole ourselves into something we dont love/arent stimulated by. Most of us could have found other, less attractive, well apying jobs in other fields but chose to go into one that we find interesting.

Worst of all, it seems like you are stuck having to own your own practice, which is not something I want to have to do in order to maximize my wage. Just a few of my reasons aside from the eww I hate teeth aspect.
 
Dentists do have better earnings due to less school debt (although I disagree with he above comment that they make more than Drs).
My gripe with it is its huge limitation and incredibly repetitive nature. It seems like it is just fill cavities, do root canals all day every day. If you got into it and hated it, then too abd ebcause that is the only option available. Medicine has many subfields that are all distinct from each other as well as academic/teaching pathways as well.

Worst of all, it seems like you are stuck having to own your own practice, which is not something I want to have to do in order to maximize my wage. Just a few of my reasons aside from the eww I hate teeth aspect.
you could always tighten braces all day


....facial reconstruction might actually be interesting?
 
http://bellevuecollege.edu/advising/FAQs Professional schools08-2005.htm

This is only a single school (UW, not sure which UW), but in this case the application to acceptance rate for vets is like twice of mds.

Yeah the thing is, most people apply to a lot of med schools (I think AAMC said the average was ~15, which makes the acceptance percentage at any given school much lower, but the actual overall acceptance rate is relatively high (~40-50% for MD, dunno what it is for DO) There aren't that many vet schools, ~20-25 total and most people don't apply to as many as they apply to med schools.
 
Yeah the thing is, most people apply to a lot of med schools (I think AAMC said the average was ~15, which makes the acceptance percentage at any given school much lower, but the actual overall acceptance rate is relatively high (~40-50% for MD, dunno what it is for DO)


True, but do pre-vets not apply to a good chunk of the schools as well?
 
Yeah the thing is, most people apply to a lot of med schools (I think AAMC said the average was ~15, which makes the acceptance percentage at any given school much lower, but the actual overall acceptance rate is relatively high (~40-50% for MD, dunno what it is for DO) There aren't that many vet schools, ~20-25 total and most people don't apply to as many as they apply to med schools.

thats a good point...I did the math for their stats anyhow

applicants per spot

med 17.91111111
dental 14.38181818
vet 7.51
pharm 7.16
 
....facial reconstruction might actually be interesting?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that dentists that do facial reconstructions go to medical school as well in a combined program.
 
So that's saying that more physicians kill themselves? If I am lucky enough to become a dentist, I will have these facts somewhere in my office because I really do not understand the hangup on suicide. Even if it were true, is that a reason not to go in a profession? Who cares who commits suicide more or less. You could say that about whole races of people. Is that a reason not to want to be white vs. black? It is very rare for a black woman to commit suicide.

It is to shut people up who always bring up the suicide statistic. It's a myth. And the suicide rate difference between doctors and dentists is very little.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that dentists that do facial reconstructions go to medical school as well in a combined program.

Medical school is optional.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that dentists that do facial reconstructions go to medical school as well in a combined program.
No idea...but that would seem stupid to me...maybe it is related to medicine...a fellowship after Plastics perhaps?
 
True, but do pre-vets not apply to a good chunk of the schools as well?

typically not, because a lot of the schools are state schools, which accept only a small amount of OOS people.

IIRC only Cornell, Penn, Western, Tuskegee, and Tufts are private schools.

Here's the list.



Auburn University

Colorado State University

Cornell University

Iowa State University

Kansas State University

Louisiana State University

Michigan State University

Mississippi State University

North Carolina State University

Ohio State University

Oklahoma State University

Oregon State University

Purdue University

Texas A&M University

Tufts University

Tuskegee University

University of California, Davis

University of Florida

University of Georgia

University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

University of Minnesota

University of Missouri

University of Pennsylvania

University of Tennessee

University of Wisconsin-Madison

Virginia-Maryland Regional College of Veterinary Medicine

Washington State University

Western University of Health Sciences
 



PERCENTAGE OF DEATHS DUE TO SUICIDE
U.S. white male population 25 and older (1970): 1.5
U.S. white male dentists (1968-72): 2.0 (85 of 4,190)
U.S. white male medical doctors (1967-72): 3.0 (544 of 17,979)
U.S. white male population 25 and older (1990): 2.0
U.S. white male medical doctors (1984-95): 2.7 (379 of 13,790)
(Sources: Vital Statistics of the United States--1970, National Center for Health Statistics, Table 1-26, "Deaths from 281 Selected Causes, by Age, Race, and Sex: United States, 1970"; death certificates from 31 states, reported in "Mortality of Dentists, 1968 to 1972," Bureau of Economic Research and Statistics, Journal of the American Dental Association, January 1975, pp. 195ff; death reports collected by the American Medical Association, reported in "Suicide by Psychiatrists: A Study of Medical Specialists Among 18,730 Physician Deaths During a Five-Year Period, 1967-72," Rich et al., Journal of Clinical Psychiatry, August 1980, pp. 261ff.; Vital Statistics of the United States--1990, National Center for Health Statistics, Table 1-27, "Deaths from 282 Selected Causes, by 5-Year Age Groups, Race, and Sex: United States--1990"; National Occupational Mortality Surveillance database, reported in "Mortality Rates and Causes Among U.S. Physicians," Frank et al., American Journal of Preventive Medicine, Vol. 19, No. 3, 2000.

Just another reason why women are better than men.
 
There are presently 28 schools of veterinary medicine in the United States graduating about 2,100 students a year, with more than 8,500 students enrolled. Approximately 75% of entering students are women.

Can't find anything about number of applicants though...
 
On the plus side, there's a Carribbean vet school. I suspect that the carribbean stigma is less of a problem for a vet, since residencies are optional. On the other hand, the average salary of a Vet is $85,000 a year, so paying off the student loans at a pricey Carribbean school is a problem.
 
An abiding interest in animals is the most obvious requirement for someone aspiring to be a veterinarian. There are 75,000 active veterinarians in the United States; the majority of them find employment in the private sector, as an owner of a solo practice or as an associate in a group practice. There are veterinary talent shortages in the areas of food safety, in governmental work, and for non-practice (academic and research), certified specialist, and rural practitioner veterinarians. Employment at zoos, breeding farms, racetracks, humane societies and animal welfare organizations is also possible. Involvement of veterinarians in all aspects of animal research is increasing. Veterinary schools are looking for a more diverse applicant pool than they have in the past.

There are twenty-eight veterinary schools in the United States; they enroll a total of 10,300 students each year. All of the schools have a preference for accepting applicants who are residents of the state in which the school is located. Most schools have contracted with states (usually without a veterinary school of their own) to accept a limited number of students from the contracting state and all accept a limited number of non-resident, non-contract "at-large" students; there are approximately 450 such "at-large" positions in veterinary schools in the United States at the present time. Competition for admission to veterinary school varies tremendously from school to school; some routinely receive a number of applications equal to ten to twenty times the number of positions in their entering class; others have fewer than five applicants for each first year position. A total of 2,570 students gain admission to veterinary school each year from a pool of about 4,500 applicants. Female students make up 80% of the students enrolled in veterinary school; by 2010, women will become the majority of practitioners. Minority enrollment has increased steadily in the last several years and stood at 10% of the total enrollment in 2004. Over 90% of the graduates from veterinary schools in 2003 received job offers or had procured opportunities for continuing education before graduation; 87% of veterinary school graduates in 2003 had educational debt; median indebtedness was $ 74,046 at the time of graduation. The average gross income for new graduates was $ 46,300 per year in 2002. Average income for all veterinarians is $84,000 per year; 65-70% of veterinarians’ earnings in 2001 came from treating pets; spending on pet care rose to $ 11.1 billion in 2001, from $ 6.9 billion in 1991 and the market may bear higher veterinary fees than what it currently does. Mean annual expenditure on veterinary care by dog-owning households exceeded $ 250 in 2001.

There are many issues that affect veterinary students and veterinarians in the 21st century. Some of these are the development of new technologies, animals gaining higher status, the consolidation of agriculture, bio-safety/homeland security/public health, and emerging research in areas such as genomics . Corporate organizations that deliver veterinary services and more open world trading arrangements will also surely impact the future of veterinary medicine. Flexibility in scheduling is a significant factor in employment; part-time veterinarians are not uncommon.


A less legitimate source, but basically there is no huge diff in applicant to acceptance ratio if this is true...

http://www.oglethorpe.edu/faculty/~d_schadler/veterinary_medicine.htm
 
It appears to be about 42% for vet school, which is just marginally more competitive. I don't feel like pulling the #s for dental or pharm, someone else can do that if they want.
 
So about 36% by your numbers then.

AMVAS said 2467 total seats, so I went with that #. The 2000 was an estimate I found on another site.
 
Wow. You have to really love being a Vet to do 4 years of vet school to make similar pay to what you can earn with a lucrative bachelor's degree. Where I went to school, some of my friends were majoring in geology, and they told me that the oil companies in Houston will pay roughly $80,000 to a geologist right out of college.
 
It appears to be about 42% for vet school, which is just marginally more competitive. I don't feel like pulling the #s for dental or pharm, someone else can do that if they want.

At the same time, it is, of course, a relative competitiveness. Don't let anyone bruise our pre-med egos by telling us that we aren't the smartest smartypants on the whole planet Smart!
 
At the same time, it is, of course, a relative competitiveness. Don't let anyone bruise our pre-med egos by telling us that we aren't the smartest smartypants on the whole planet Smart!

For the vet school here, the average GPA of applicants was 3.65. That's a bit lower than the average GPA of matriculants at the med school (a bit over 3.8) but still pretty high, and definitely higher than a lot of med schools. Our vet school is top 5 though.
 
For the vet school here, the average GPA of applicants was 3.65. That's a bit lower than the average GPA of matriculants at the med school (a bit over 3.8) but still pretty high, and definitely higher than a lot of med schools. Our vet school is top 5 though.

Your words are like a soothing salve on the extreme reaches our vast collective intelligence that aches from its sheer enormity. :laugh:
 
what does vet school have to do with the OP?
 
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