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allnurses.com= old nurses that hate doctors. You only have to read a few posts to see the hate the majority of nurses there have for anything that is not nursing, especially doctors.
DNP or Resident
Started by Tipps
allnurses.com= old nurses that hate doctors. You only have to read a few posts to see the hate the majority of nurses there have for anything that is not nursing, especially doctors.
not uncalled for. IT IS INAPPROPRIATE FOR NURSES IN THE CLINICAL ARENA TO CALL THEMSELVES DOCTOR. PERIOD. I DONT CARE HOW MANY PHDs THEY HAVE. THEY ARE NOT PHYSICIANS AND THEY NEVER WILL BE PHYSICIANS. GO SPEW THAT CRAP AT ALLNURSES OR ANY OTHER NURSE FORUMS. THE TERM DOCTOR IS NOT RELATED TO DEGREE IT IS RELATED TO THE PHYSICIAN/ PATIENT RELATIONSHIP. WHY CANT YOU UNDERSTAND THAT WITH SO MANY LETTERS AFTER YOUR NAME? IT SHOULD BE DEEMED PROFESSIONAL MISCONDUCT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wow, for someone so edumacated it's a shame you can't make your point without screaming. 🙄
The answer is yes. It can take the form of BSN from an accredited program. Here is a table describing the typical requirements for admissions into the DNP.
on a side note, does anyone know if Stewart University is conferring DNP degrees? I have an uncle who is an eminent nurse in Mexico interested in becoming a doctor and tackle the primary care shortage in the USA?
🙄
Personally, I don't waste time hating any doctors (physicians). I did work with one last year however, that almost caused me to write a medical school to ask why they unleased such a danger to society.
Someone needs to help you...maybe I can be of assistance.
Maceo, look, no hard feelings. We look at the situation quite differently, which is fine. It could have been interesting to discuss they whys and wherefores, but I suspect it would be an increasingly unpleasant exercise in futility for us both. Best to agree to disagree, and relax my brother. It is very hard to read tone on the internet -even when the font is set at 24, lol. FWIW, my tone should be read as merely plaintive. I am not personally vested in the situation either way, and my response to varying points of view is not emotional, merely contemplative.
I certainly don't hate doctors! I work with some really fantastic people and we have wonderful interpersonal and professional relationships. Never in my career have I encountered any of the negativeor downright hostile attitudes I infer here, in any workplace. All of my interactions have been cordial and professional. I have practiced all over the country, and this has always been the case, so I don't think my experience is atypical. I am respectful of all the people that are part of the system, from the guy who buffs the floors to our CEO. My personal opinion of individuals is based on behavior and job performance, not so much their level of eduction, title or background. I have always enjoyed very collegial realtionships with everyone in my workplace. I certainly have some complaints about my job (90% are proably with hospital adminstration, 9% with nursing administrtion, and 1% everybody else) from time totime, but I am really blessed to work with top notch people all around.
I don't belong to allnurses, though I have read there. I came to SDN to get feedback from knowledgable colleagues about the quality of graduate programs I am considering. Like Zenman and FarmerJane, I am looking for an outstanding educational experience. Excellence is important to me, I seek to surround myself with it and exemplify it. I stayed b/c somethings the discussions here are interesting. This week, ironically, I am a bit under the weather and staying in with little to do (we don't have cable, lol). Other than one girly thread about makeup, I haven't ventured into areas of SDN that are not labeled "RN" in the title. Assuming of course, that mere nurses are permitted to discuss lingere and make-up with other female members of SDN who may <gasp> belong to a caste other than untouchables. 😛
Eventually I have to get off the sofa and get back to my responsibilities out there, but Zenman and CoreO, Farmer and the nurse with Bob Dylan in her avatar (I am always so distracted by him I cannot picture your name-deepest apologies) are so informative and inspirational, I will probably keep coming back.
I certainly don't hate doctors! I work with some really fantastic people and we have wonderful interpersonal and professional relationships. Never in my career have I encountered any of the negativeor downright hostile attitudes I infer here, in any workplace. All of my interactions have been cordial and professional. I have practiced all over the country, and this has always been the case, so I don't think my experience is atypical. I am respectful of all the people that are part of the system, from the guy who buffs the floors to our CEO. My personal opinion of individuals is based on behavior and job performance, not so much their level of eduction, title or background. I have always enjoyed very collegial realtionships with everyone in my workplace. I certainly have some complaints about my job (90% are proably with hospital adminstration, 9% with nursing administrtion, and 1% everybody else) from time totime, but I am really blessed to work with top notch people all around.
I don't belong to allnurses, though I have read there. I came to SDN to get feedback from knowledgable colleagues about the quality of graduate programs I am considering. Like Zenman and FarmerJane, I am looking for an outstanding educational experience. Excellence is important to me, I seek to surround myself with it and exemplify it. I stayed b/c somethings the discussions here are interesting. This week, ironically, I am a bit under the weather and staying in with little to do (we don't have cable, lol). Other than one girly thread about makeup, I haven't ventured into areas of SDN that are not labeled "RN" in the title. Assuming of course, that mere nurses are permitted to discuss lingere and make-up with other female members of SDN who may <gasp> belong to a caste other than untouchables. 😛
Eventually I have to get off the sofa and get back to my responsibilities out there, but Zenman and CoreO, Farmer and the nurse with Bob Dylan in her avatar (I am always so distracted by him I cannot picture your name-deepest apologies) are so informative and inspirational, I will probably keep coming back.
I respect the janitor and the guy who buffs the floor more so than i respect nurses likeyou thats for sure. You have a chip on your shoulder. At least the guy who buffs the floor earns hiskeep and is not trying to do something he is not qualified to do.
I can only conclude you've not actually read a thing Chilly has written.
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I'm just going to conclude that s/he is having a hard time in the world of late and needs to let off some steam.
Yelling at random strangers on the internet can be therapeutic and it's a darn site less problematic than yelling at random strangers in the market, lol. I think if we sat down and had a beer together, we'd find more common ground than differences, so I'm going to raise a glass, say Slainte amd move on.
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Beer, you say? I'll join you.
I posted this in another thread:
Just because you build it does not mean they will come. Just because you slap on some statistics, research, and theory classes to an NP curriculum and call it "doctorate" level now, it does not mean that the degree will be accepted. The responses from the medical students, residents, and attendings on this site should be an indicator to anyone that physicians aren't going to be fooled by this degree. Hopefully, the public will see through it too. I believe that if the Truth & Transparency Act (only MD or DO can call themselves "doctors" clinically) gets passed then the DNP would have been an utter failure in trying to grab more scope. If anything, it is creating a backlash. Worst case scenario, physicians begin to preferentially hire PA's and DNP's continue to earn the same salary as NP's even though they spent two more worthless years.
In what may be an ominous sign for retail clinics, CVS Caremark has closed about 90 of some 550 MinuteClinic locations until the next flu season or other "seasonal" needs demand their services
...
The move may speak to overcapacity in a young industry that has grown rapidly but has only attracted modest demand from patients, who go to the clinics for simple ailments. As we noted last year, the clinics appear to be showing a pattern sort of like the dot-com bubble, in which some will go away while others survive.
...
The move may speak to overcapacity in a young industry that has grown rapidly but has only attracted modest demand from patients, who go to the clinics for simple ailments. As we noted last year, the clinics appear to be showing a pattern sort of like the dot-com bubble, in which some will go away while others survive.
Just because you build it does not mean they will come. Just because you slap on some statistics, research, and theory classes to an NP curriculum and call it "doctorate" level now, it does not mean that the degree will be accepted. The responses from the medical students, residents, and attendings on this site should be an indicator to anyone that physicians aren't going to be fooled by this degree. Hopefully, the public will see through it too. I believe that if the Truth & Transparency Act (only MD or DO can call themselves "doctors" clinically) gets passed then the DNP would have been an utter failure in trying to grab more scope. If anything, it is creating a backlash. Worst case scenario, physicians begin to preferentially hire PA's and DNP's continue to earn the same salary as NP's even though they spent two more worthless years.
Taurus, I think that article raises some significant points. Frankly, it is just too soon to guess which way things are going to go. The current 3rd party payor system is probably going to collapse, as for what structure emerges from the rubble -only time will tell. I suspect NPs will be out there providing quality care within their scope regardless of what title they employ. However, I do not doubt that health care will continue to be led by physicians.
It is a gamble for nurses beginning a DNP program now. I presume they are making informed decisions and are concluding that the eduction in itself will be the real reward, irrespective of the political end.
It is a gamble for nurses beginning a DNP program now. I presume they are making informed decisions and are concluding that the eduction in itself will be the real reward, irrespective of the political end.
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Beginning at 6pm this evening, my beer will be green. We take our celtic roots quite seriously this time of year.
Farmer, did you apply to any MSN programs this year?
? are taurus and maceo the same person?
Beginning at 6pm this evening, my beer will be green. We take our celtic roots quite seriously this time of year.
Farmer, did you apply to any MSN programs this year?
I have Irish roots, and have even been there. I'll toss one back tonight also.
From everything I have been reading, these retail clinics are awfully expensive to run. Here's an analysis of the Massachusetts experience. As the analysis points out, currently most clinics see 10 patients/day but they need to see an average of 18 patients/day just to break even! That is why many of these retail clinics are exploring ways to increase exposure, such as co-branding with hospitals such as the Cleveland Clinic. It's anybody's guess what the future is for this business model, but I don't see it being as sunny as predicted by some when these clinics first came onto the scene. It won't be the NP nirvana that some had hoped.
Yes it is. Why would people want to spend an extra two years in school if they will get the same job and same pay that an NP gets today? Worse, if DNP's have more demands, it would be just easier to hire an NP or PA. If there is ultimately a law that restricts the "doctor" title to MD or DO, then the DNP would have been an utter failure in achieving their political objectives. Then what's the point of getting a DNP if you can't even distinguish yourself from an NP? Who will take you seriously that you're equivalent to physicians if you can't even call yourself "doctor"? Don't be surprised that Congress slips in such a regulation when health reform is passed. The AMA has been trying to get Congress to pass such a law for several years. Now may be the time when it finally passes.
Let's not forget that Obama had personal first-hand experience with the healthcare system when his mother was diagnosed and treated for ovarian cancer. Furthermore, Michelle Obama was vice president of community and external affairs for the University of Chicago Medical Center. Being a man of high education, Obama, I sincerely believe, respects the education and time that physicians have to put in. I think that he can easily see the DNP is nothing more than a blatant political ploy by the nurses but which does not increase the number of physicians which is what he says he wants. Look at the list of participants he invited to the White House health summit. How many nursing groups besides the ANA can you pick out from that list? Whereas you have the AMA, family docs, internists, pediatricians, etc. I think that Obama is more pro-physician than many would think.
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Not yet Chilly, but it's on my to-do list. 🙂
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Green Beer Day!! Ahh I miss it.
Ha ha Bwahhaaa. Har har. Stop! Yer' killing me! Are you crazy? President Obama looks at you as three things: 1) A cash cow upon whose taxes he will fund the expanding entitlement state, 2) An over-paid robber baron leading a privilged life who needs to be punished for his success and who will be forced to put even more skin in the game to cement the loyalty of the dependocracy, the only constituency the President cares about, and 3) A very real obstacle to whatever cost-cutting and rationing will be required to afford giving everyone absolutely free medical care.
You are so misguided and naive that I cringe to think of all the people like you in our country. The Dear Leader played you and will play you for a chump. Man, I liked President Bush but in no way did I worship him the way Obamabots worship The Annointed One.
If you're a specialist, Obama probably isn't your best friend. But primary care doctors probably will benefit. If McCain or worse Palin had become president and they overhauled the healthcare system, what do you think they would have done? They probably would have lowered the bar to practice medicine and really open the floodgates to let NP's practice medicine independently in every state. When I listened to those two talk, I didn't get a strong sense that either one was a deep thinker. They seemed to jump at the fastest and easiest solutions. Especially that globe-trotting, Nieman Marcus-spending Palin. You're a good little Republican and believe in deregulation and competition, right? Why wouldn't the Republicans support the idea of letting NP's compete with you in every medical field from FP to derm, cards, GI? Let the free market work out the details, right? Uh huh. 🙄 Do you think that the AMA could have blocked that if McCain or Palin had to update the system? I doubt it.
Bush was an idiot and this country could hardly wait to toss him out. Can you say, "ownership society"? MU HA HA. Look who's the fool now.
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While I dislike most politicians, I can only repeat this message:
One
Big
A**
Mistake
America
NP-staffed retail-based clinics popular in Massachusetts
Retail-based health clinics staffed by nurse practitioners are booming in Massachusetts as thousands of people head in with sore throats, bronchitis and other minor health concerns. More than two CVS MinuteClinics are opening each month, and the company says the concept is taking off faster in Massachusetts than in any other state. The Boston Globe (3/12)
So, what's really going on?
Probably the fact that since Massachusetts enacted its universal health coverage reform, primary care offices have been flooded with demand and news articles from the past two years make it clear that long waits for new appointments with primary care offices are common and not something the state had the foresight to address. My guess is a lot of people with their newfound insurance coverage are turning to these clinics because they cannot see a doctor. That environment is unique to Massachusetts; it seems these clinics are really underperforming everywhere else. Many are closing and/or changing to seasonal schedules (closing for spring/summer).
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You wait... when social medicine rears its head my assumption is new studies will be created to show just how efficient and effective NPs and DNPs are and thus will serve a larger part of the population - and with just as good service (as studies will show..) and as a byproduct they just might be a lot cheaper for the gov..
just a hunch.
just a hunch.
for some reason as a resident of MA I cant believe this quote from the boston globe. "THOUSANDS"= for real? are they giving treatment for free? is there an epidemic we dont know of in MA that people all of the sudden need to spend 59 dollars?
There something strange in that quote. I cant quite see it living in that state.
Hey. Here's the smartest man in the world in action:
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wo...ring_Address_With_Irish_PM_On_St_Patricks_Day
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And Obama is better? His approval ratings have dropped faster than any other President in US History.
I really like the bit at the end of that article.
Can you imagine if he was visiting Ireland during Black History Month and they served fried chicken and watermelon and joked about not getting all the white women pregnant?
😀with all of this talk of DNP prescribing, i don't understand why clinical pharmacists who do 4 yrs undergrad, 4 yrs pharmacy school, then residency cannot write prescriptions. the training and drug knowledge is vast and i think they should be able to write prescriptions within the same capacity as a nurse practitioner.
When it comes to pharmacology, there will be no better source than a pharmacist. That said, the NP, PA, or MD/DO will be able to do the physical exams you are not trained to do. The scope of practice should therefore not be equivalent.
Good Dear Sweet Moses. Has the madness spread even to pharmacists? The reason clinical pharmacists should not be able to prescribe medications is that the patient does not belong to you and you are no way qualified to act as his physician. Yer' drug knowledge is vast which is why I am not ashamed in any way to consult you on particularly thorny medication questions but the minute you start writing prescriptions then you own the patient (not that you're not welcome to them but that's just my disgruntlement talking) and unless you're willing to learn more about medicine than you know, leave it alone.
It would be like me, after a few surgery rotations in residency, deciding I was qualified to be a general surgeon because I had one aspect of the specialty (rounding on patients) nailed cold.
Just like NPs and PAs in quasi-independent practice, what you really want is to "cherry-pick" the easy patients with the simple medical problems or those that are being followed by specialists who are doing your heavy-lifting for you.
OMG, you're fricken killing me here. I don't know why but that really got my funnybone...hil-ar-ee-ous! Nice play Taurus.😎
Well, technically true but only because they started at such unprecedented heights. His actual rating today is still higher than both Bill Clinton and George W. Bush at the same point in their presidencies, and neither of them started their terms mired in both an economic crisis and two wars. So I think your statement is very misleading.
so throw in a few physical exam classes and you are all set. there are physical exam classes in the doctor of pharmacy programs. just saying.
no offense, i personally would never let another nurse practitioner near me. i have had nothing but horrific experiences with various ones as a patient when i was younger until now.
he will also do so many horrible things for this country that far outweigh what bush ever did.
[QUOTE ]so throw in a few physical exam classes and you are all set. there are physical exam classes in the doctor of pharmacy programs. just saying.
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I'd say that the training that comes during third and fourth year of medical school and the thousands of patients that you see in residency before you can give meds without supervision is more than a few physical exam classes.
It's not just how to use a stethoscope. It's interpreting the X-ray to determine if the patient has a pneumonia, reading the CSF results, taking a full history, etc.
Pharmacists know a ton more than I ever will about drugs, but the drug knowledge has to be pared with all the other skills that go into being a physician.
Aside from which, you shouldn't be giving drugs without doing a history and physical. And if pharmacists spent their time doing that they wouldn't have time to do the pharmacy work for which they are actually being paid.
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I'd say that the training that comes during third and fourth year of medical school and the thousands of patients that you see in residency before you can give meds without supervision is more than a few physical exam classes.
It's not just how to use a stethoscope. It's interpreting the X-ray to determine if the patient has a pneumonia, reading the CSF results, taking a full history, etc.
Pharmacists know a ton more than I ever will about drugs, but the drug knowledge has to be pared with all the other skills that go into being a physician.
Aside from which, you shouldn't be giving drugs without doing a history and physical. And if pharmacists spent their time doing that they wouldn't have time to do the pharmacy work for which they are actually being paid.
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Wow, this has gone way off-topic.
The pharm D programs I know of are 6 years total, 2 pre-pharm and 4 pharm. Which school are you thinking of?
Yes. Isn't that nice.
There are still traditional 4 year PharmD programs out there. For example, at OSU: "The entry-level Doctor of Pharmacy (PharmD) is a four-year graduate professional program. Applicants are now required to have completed a Bachelors Degree prior to matriculation into the PharmD program."
Nursing, as with all fields, should have a provide doctorate levels of training. As an earlier poster said, this should reflect the highest level of learning for that field. But it is of THAT field. Someone with a doctorate of nursing is still a nurse, just one that has achieved the highest level of education in nursing.
They obtained an education that suits them for the highest level of nursing (a nurse leader, educator, heading a team of nurses in the wards, etc.)- not practicing medicine.
As the OP said, it is comparing apples to pears. Thats why physicians get so upset about this issue. Because they are the ones trained to be an apple, and pears are trying to look like apples.
It would be a shame to see all the information we, as a society, have learned about medicine over the years that is taught in medical school be lost somewhere down the road- because it is cheaper for people without that knowledge to care for patients.
One reason I entered medical school was to learn as much about human physiology, disease, treatment, etc. as I could. I hope that high level of education survives and maintains its integrity even if midlevels take over all of healthcare.
They obtained an education that suits them for the highest level of nursing (a nurse leader, educator, heading a team of nurses in the wards, etc.)- not practicing medicine.
As the OP said, it is comparing apples to pears. Thats why physicians get so upset about this issue. Because they are the ones trained to be an apple, and pears are trying to look like apples.
It would be a shame to see all the information we, as a society, have learned about medicine over the years that is taught in medical school be lost somewhere down the road- because it is cheaper for people without that knowledge to care for patients.
One reason I entered medical school was to learn as much about human physiology, disease, treatment, etc. as I could. I hope that high level of education survives and maintains its integrity even if midlevels take over all of healthcare.
I imagine the backlash against DOs by MDs when they were moving for equal practice rights was somewhat similar. The difference is DO schools eventually moved toward the standardized medical education system in order to obtain equal licensure (with the exception of some additional DO specific classes like OMM).
If DNPs truly want equal practice rights, they will have to standardize their curriculum to cover topics necessary for full licensure. If they were to do that and essentially make their education the same as the MD/DO curriculum with maybe some additional nurse-specific classes-I dont think anyone would have a problem with them obtaining equal practice rights.
If DNPs truly want equal practice rights, they will have to standardize their curriculum to cover topics necessary for full licensure. If they were to do that and essentially make their education the same as the MD/DO curriculum with maybe some additional nurse-specific classes-I dont think anyone would have a problem with them obtaining equal practice rights.
Here is the problem : 22 states allow NPs to practice independently . There is a push to get more states to grant full independent pratice prviliges to NPs . I have read articles in which the group pushing this nonsense claim that NPS are equal and even better than trained physicians . Its time for the AMA to put a stop to this nonsense .
And do you think the AMA is sitting idly by watching this happen and doing or saying nothing?
apparently they are sitting on their laurels , why the hell did this nonsensical joke of a program get so far ..as to be able to practice independently . This lady ( I refuse to call her dr ) was really able to push her agenda and the AMA did not stop her . The idea is sold that NPs = MDS and this nonsense has been allowed to continue ???? I read an article which states that they expect 200 programs to open up producing " np doctors" claiming that these " docs" provide the same or better care . Funny enough, they sing a differnt tune when confronted about taking a real test claiming "we do not mean to replace docs ", yet behind the AMA's back or rather in front of the AMA's nose , THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY INTEND TO DO ...TO REPLACE PHYSICIANS
This line sums up their attiude - " One of CAPNA's practitioners, Edwidge Jourdain Thomas, MS, ANP, reinforced this theme by declaring, "We can do anything that a primary care physician can do." CAPNA was also featured in a recent issue of U.S. News & World Report.1 (For more information on CAPNA, see "A new option for primary care services?").
they plan on graduating 2000 Nps per year in the soon future ...heaven help us...cuz none of the doctor groups AMA etc seem to be doing anything tangible to curb this craziness ...
Thus, 8 years at OSU.
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