Do 4th year electives matter?

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EternalMD

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I am currently in the process of setting up my fall elective schedule for 4th year and was wondering what electives do program directors want to see on the application prior to me sending it out. I am currently thinking of doing a Pain elective, general anesthesia, sub-i, and 1-2 aways. i will do cards/pulm/nephro/etc during the spring semester.

My school only offers general/OB/pain/research as electives for anesthesia so i figured id do the ones that i could get the best letters from and learn from so that i can look better during my aways.

any recommendations or can i just stick to this plan?

also, does it matter that i do the cards/pulm/etc later on or should i do them earlier?
 
4th year:

Depending on step 1 score, take step 2 early or late.

Do aways early. Apply now. Get letters at these places. Do a home gas rotation before the aways if possible. Get letters there. Once eras is in, take the easiest stuff you can. None of this cards/pulm/neph stuff, unless you want to learn it all for fun and get procedures. You need to focus on doing well during interviews, not getting flack for taking more than 3 days off in a month. Believe me, no matter what you do 4th year, everyone will be on the same foot, generally speaking, once internship starts. However, how you structure 4th year is key to determining where you end up for internship and residency.

I am currently in the process of setting up my fall elective schedule for 4th year and was wondering what electives do program directors want to see on the application prior to me sending it out. I am currently thinking of doing a Pain elective, general anesthesia, sub-i, and 1-2 aways. i will do cards/pulm/nephro/etc during the spring semester.

My school only offers general/OB/pain/research as electives for anesthesia so i figured id do the ones that i could get the best letters from and learn from so that i can look better during my aways.

any recommendations or can i just stick to this plan?

also, does it matter that i do the cards/pulm/etc later on or should i do them earlier?
 
aways are huge. It's the main reason I'm got into the program I'm going to.
I will just tell you what I did:

A) 1 month of rotation/subI at home program during which I learned everything about what do in the OR - from initial H&P, to setting up for a case, very basics of anesthesia machine, to induction/intubation, .... , ....., to the PACU/post-op anesthesia orders.
B) I read the first section of Baby Miller (I think it is 7-8 chapters). It's a very easy read and will make your rotation more enjoyable and interesting if you know these simple basics. It will also impress attendings.
C) With these two things you should be able to impress most attendings with your anesthesia "book" knowledge and "OR" skills. Of course personality is important, but you can't prepare that in advance.
D) When you're at your away rotation spend as much time as you can with PD, chair, and other people on admissions board (you can ask residents to find out who the "big dogs" are) because they are obviously the ones who make the final decisions. But don't be super aggressive.
E) Also, don't leave early from your aways. If your room/attending is done early, ask to work in another room. Attendings like to see that you're hard working.
F) After your away, keep in touch with people who you felt really liked you by email (attending, residents, secretaries)

Remember, competitive places can have 30-50 people doing away rotations at their programs. You want to stand out.

With this game plan, I had made great strides at both of my aways and ultimately ended up at my number 1 choice.

Of course if you're an outstanding applicant you may not have to go to this extreme to impress. The other great thing about aways is you get to see how programs are like and in my case one of my "aways" really changed my opinion about the kind of programs I was interested in.

Best of luck
 
i'm just curious, how many aways did you do? i have heard that on the interview trail this season lots of people are talking about their away rotations. most doing at least one and quite a few doing at least 2
 
thanks for the advice. The way my schedule is working out, I will only get to do one away in probably september and the next open slot i have is december for another away which cuts into the interview season. Do you think I should try to do the 2nd away in dedember even if its late at a place I want to/have interviewed at or just stick to the one away?

the big choice for me now is to pick which NYC program I want to go to. I'm looking to stay in the tri-state area and NY has so many good programs, i'm having a hard time figuring out where to go to impress (well, try to impress)
 
thanks for the advice. The way my schedule is working out, I will only get to do one away in probably september and the next open slot i have is december for another away which cuts into the interview season. Do you think I should try to do the 2nd away in dedember even if its late at a place I want to/have interviewed at or just stick to the one away?

the big choice for me now is to pick which NYC program I want to go to. I'm looking to stay in the tri-state area and NY has so many good programs, i'm having a hard time figuring out where to go to impress (well, try to impress)

The "big four" of NY (in no particular order): Columbia, Sinai, Cornell, NYU

Also don't forget you can still do aways in Jan/Feb. I didn't do it but I know others who did. Obviously these aways late in the year won't help much in the way of getting interviews but you can still show off your skills during a time that schools are making their rank lists! And in regards to interviews - you will get lots of them. I wasn't that competitive and I still got great interview offers. I say aim high for the away rotation if you've got a decent personality. Also work hard and do seek out the chair/pd, set up a meeting with them if you don't get OR time with them. Express your interest in the program and get an attending to write you a letter for that same institution.
 
I've lurked on this board forever, and I've obviously never posted before. But 2008's match is over with, so now it's time for me to get neurotic!

I don't know if I should be scheduling aways. I don't have any specific program I want to attend. I'd probably be perfectly happy anywhere. What I'm looking for in a program is... nice people who like to teach. That's pretty much it. As long as it's a program in good standing, the people are good to work with, and I'll come out a competent clinician, I'll be sold! And also, I'm broke as hell, so I can't afford to be flitting all over the country and paying double rent unless I absolutely have to... but so many people seem to think aways are essential. I wouldn't even know where to schedule one, because I don't even have much of a geographical preference! Honestly. I've lived in big cities and small towns in the sticks and been equally happy in both.

Anyway, my stats are pretty darn average. My step 1 wasn't great but wasn't terrible either. I've been doing fine (well above average, high-80%tiles) on all the shelf exams, which apparently indicates that I'll do better on the more clinical material of step 2 (time will tell, and I probably won't just give up and stop studying a quarter of the material for this one like I did for step 1 because I hated some of the rote-memorization basic sciences crap so much). My grades have been middle of the road, right around the mean in everything. I have lots of extracurricular stuff and will have good letters from faculty who know me well.

What I'm trying to say is, is it necessary to do aways for someone like me? I'm painfully average, so I could probably use the boost to get programs to notice me... but I don't give a damn where I end up living, so how would I even begin to decide where I should do one? I'm not a super-competitive applicant, though. What to do?

If you read this far, I'm sorry to make my first post one of those irritating, long, self-centered HELP ME ones. Thanks for reading, and congratulations to those of you who just matched!
 
I took all the easiest crap I could do during the fourth year. All the joke research and reading rotations and 2 months of bullsh1t public health. Keep it light, keep it bright, keep it gay. This is your last year to really relax and take it easy before you get your ballbag busted.

Oh by the way, I ended up at hopkins, so it obviously never affected me.
 
I am currently in the process of setting up my fall elective schedule for 4th year and was wondering what electives do program directors want to see on the application prior to me sending it out. I am currently thinking of doing a Pain elective, general anesthesia, sub-i, and 1-2 aways. i will do cards/pulm/nephro/etc during the spring semester.

My school only offers general/OB/pain/research as electives for anesthesia so i figured id do the ones that i could get the best letters from and learn from so that i can look better during my aways.

any recommendations or can i just stick to this plan?

also, does it matter that i do the cards/pulm/etc later on or should i do them earlier?

You should do at least one anesthesia elective, for a month, prior to applying for residency. (Duh.) Doesn't matter if it's at home or away, but a well written letter from an anesthesiologist helps greatly. It's not unheard of, though, for an occasional person to apply without such a letter -- though I think it would be a handicap.

Apart from that, do whatever other rotations you want. Do "radiology" and show up for an hour a day and spend the rest of the day at the beach. No one will really care.

Away anesthesia rotations -- you do not need one. It has the potential to help your application (say, get a foot in the door at a program you're interested in, or get a letter from a more well-known faculty member) and it has the potential to be very educational (you can see how things run at another institution and it gives you an idea of what you're looking for in a residency).

You will get to know the ins and outs of any program where you spend time for a month, and they will get to know you. Hiring decisions for the match are made with a great deal of trepidation (every program has gotten burned at least once by hiring a candidate who looked great on paper and sucked in practice) so if you really get along with them and they can see themselves working with you during your away elective, you have a great chance of being hired. So you can land a very good position by doing an away if you're lucky -- and if you actually happen to like the place where you did your away -- even if you don't have the best grades / scores / class rank / etc.

But aways are not by any means necessary. And I personally would not do more than one at home, one away for a total of two months. Any longer than two months and you'll die of boredom during your third month.

In NYC, I'd say if you want to spend a month, spend it at Sinai if job satisfaction trumps all other factors. If reputation is more important to you, spend it at Columbia. Alternatively, I think Penn would also be a reasonable place to do an away. Choose the month(s) you want and send in your request early (like, in January or February of your fourth year).
 
I took all the easiest crap I could do during the fourth year. All the joke research and reading rotations and 2 months of bullsh1t public health. Keep it light, keep it bright, keep it gay. This is your last year to really relax and take it easy before you get your ballbag busted.

Oh by the way, I ended up at hopkins, so it obviously never affected me.


I agree 100%. I haven't taken a single night of call my whole 4th year. It has been an option and I just tell my attending to not bother calling me. I did a pulmonary rotation where I just came in and rounded on patients. I was in at 8:30 am and out by 10:30-11:00 am every day. This has been the easiest year ever. The only rotation I tried on was my away anesthesia. Other than that, take it easy. You're going to have plenty of time during residency that you have to bust your a**.
 
Do a gas rotation at your school early. Cards/pulm are good if you can honor them, just makes you stand out as an applicant. Do an away rotation if you really want to goto one specific program. If you interested in several programs, away rotations arent that crucial. However what Ive seen after meeting several anesthesia applicants, many people have done AT LEAST one away rotation. I met this one guy with awesome stats who did a gas rotation at his own institution, and 2 away rotations. pretty crazy huh? gotta love med school neurosis. good luck.
 
Would one anesthesia sub-I and a cardiology elective be okay before the interview season starts? It is becoming very difficult for me to schedule my second anesthesia elective and I wouldn't mind doing some cardiology since I will be practicing anesthesia for my entire career.
 
Would one anesthesia sub-I and a cardiology elective be okay before the interview season starts? It is becoming very difficult for me to schedule my second anesthesia elective and I wouldn't mind doing some cardiology since I will be practicing anesthesia for my entire career.

Likely. All I did (that showed up on my transcripts for interviews) is an anesthesia subi and medicine subspecialty. I submitted my transcripts to ERAS before any other grades showed up because I wanted to get it in early and turn around is slow.
 
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