DO acceptance or Conditional MD SMP acceptance

[Meganerd2012]

First and foremost, I have been extremely fortunate to have a DO acceptance, especially given my low stats (~3.3 GPA, 500 MCAT). I’m incredibly grateful for both of my acceptances after feeling stuck earlier on in the process.

Some background:
URM with lifelong issues with time management & task initiation which makes me sensitive to burnout. I had a strong upward trend in undergrad, and I did well in a DIY postbacc with a 4.0 in ~22 credits. I credit that to working on strategies to manage my weakness. I know that I will be able to succeed academically, but only if I have the right support and structure. I want to pick the best path for me that will set me up for the greatest success given my background as a student. Right now, I’m most interested in Neuro, Rads, or IM (and do a sub specialty) and I’m also interested in a medical education role down the line, but I’m still undecided and want to keep my options open. I think I’m psyching myself out and I guess I just need to feel reassured that the choice I’m making will still have a path forward to let me do what I would like to do.

DO pro:

• Guaranteed seat in med school. No stressing about earning my spot and can focus on doing well in M1.
• Smaller class sizes (though they added more seats this year)
• In-person lectures available. I like the external accountability and it helps me not fall behind.
• Decent match list for a new branch campus (though mostly regional/community residencies)
• Faculty seem supportive and I liked my interview and tour there
• Cheaper COL & can keep health current insurance

DO con:

• Unfortunately there still exists some structural stigma, even though DOs are equally capable physicians. It’s changing, but I’m unsure by how much in 4 years (I’m hopeful)
• Rural setting with less research opportunities
• Quality of clinical sites variable (I’ve seen some mixed feedback about clinical site quality at a sister campus, it’s not necessarily reflective of my site, but still something to keep in mind when I weigh the trade-offs)
• Will need to prep for COMPLEX and USMLE to stay competitive

SMP Pros (IF I make contract):

• Opportunity to go a well established MD which comes with a larger alumni network and research infrastructure
• I don’t think I’ll mind having to do OMM as an DO, but going MD would be more time to focus on STEP
• No DO stigma
• If I do well, it sets me up for great success for their MD program as the format is very similar
• MD program has scholar programs with one offering structured opportunities in a medical education track
• Better infrastructure in helping with residency applications

SMP Cons:

• Huge risk. If I fail to make contract (especially if due to GPA), it makes it extremely difficult to move forward for med school applications
• The school doesn’t publish how many students make contract, and I’ve seen some reports from current students expressing concern about the level of support as expectations have risen (experiences vary so I’m taking it with a grain of salt)
• I’ll have to take MCAT again and score a 502. Most folks have said this usually falls short due to CARS (I have no problems in this area), but it’s still a huge time commitment to undertake during an SMP.
• Mostly self-directed learning which is my #1 concern with this program
• Extra year in cost + loss year of attending income
• Fall semester is front loaded with credits (19 credits, including difficult 6-credit biochem)
• MD school has a very large class size

Neutral Points:

• I don’t want to take another gap year
• Tuition is high for both so large loan burden either way though DO will be more manageable
• DO has graded preclinical and clinical while MD (if make contract) is p/f preclinical and tiered grading clinical.
• I’m committed to growing into a more self-directed learner. I know any med school environment will force a change in habits, but DO will allow me to lean on the external structure longer while the conditional acceptance nips that in the bud at the start.

Thoughts:
I don’t want to fall in love with a competitive specialty after I’ve already committed to a path that makes it harder to get there. I fully acknowledge that DOs can (and certainly do!) match into competitive specialties, but from everything I’ve read and heard, it takes being an exceptional applicant with high scores, strong networking, and relentless self-advocacy.

I’m not saying that there’s not a chance I can’t grow into that kind of student, but I know that I do best in environments where structure and mentorship are already in place, rather than ones that rely heavily on self-directed outreach from day one

MD students face their own challenges in this area, but they’re not navigating the same level of institutional bias or assumptions about their training quality.

If I ended up in family med, I wouldn’t care as much about DO vs MD. But I worry I’ll discover a true interest in a competitive field and then feel like I’ve limited my options before I even had the chance to explore them.

Any thoughts or advice from those who’ve been in similar shoes or have experience through the DO to residency (and fellowship) match would be much appreciated. Again, I’m grateful just to be choosing between two real options (and amazing schools!), and I want to make the most informed choice I can.

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[Mr.Smile12]

In general, take the sure thing here. Why put yourself in another year of debt and insecurity about getting into medical school if you have a sure seat? What do your mentors in SNMA say? There are plenty of SNMA members in DO programs; don't rely on hearsay. Don't spend money when you could use that year to make money as an attending. But your resources in doing your best as a medical student.

 

[DO2015CA]

I think it ultimately depends on your end game and how you’d feel if you ended up in a less competitive specialty. Your smp doesn’t seem like a slam dunk by any means. Especially since they are requiring you to retake the mcat. People are matching more competitively every year even from when I matched over half a decade ago but there are larger numbers of DO applicants so competition is still a thing to keep in mind. I’m a bird in the hand kinda guy so I would go DO. But that’s what’s I did and couldn’t be happier. I have no regrets but I was always going into a less competitive specialty so I wasn’t too worried about the difficulty of matching.

 

[Meganerd2012]

In general, take the sure thing here. Why put yourself in another year of debt and insecurity about getting into medical school if you have a sure seat? What do your mentors in SNMA say? There are plenty of SNMA members in DO programs; don't rely on hearsay. Don't spend money when you could use that year to make money as an attending. But your resources in doing your best as a medical student.

Thank you so much for your advice!

I am not a part of SNMA (only recently learned about it), but I’ll definitely look into it. I’ve been figuring out this whole process on my own as someone who is first in medicine, so I have been relying on any information I could find.

And yes, the SMP is pretty expensive which is another reason why it seemed like a risky choice. I think I just needed some reassurance that it’s not unwise to take the DO over the conditional MD seat.

Again, thank you for the perspective.

 

[Meganerd2012]

I think it ultimately depends on your end game and how you’d feel if you ended up in a less competitive specialty. Your smp doesn’t seem like a slam dunk by any means. Especially since they are requiring you to retake the mcat. People are matching more competitively every year even from when I matched over half a decade ago but there are larger numbers of DO applicants so competition is still a thing to keep in mind. I’m a bird in the hand kinda guy so I would go DO. But that’s what’s I did and couldn’t be happier. I have no regrets but I was always going into a less competitive specialty so I wasn’t too worried about the difficulty of matching.

Thank you so much for the reply!

Yes, part of what I’ve been thinking about is that the DO school mostly matches into regional community residencies. I do see myself practicing in the region in the future. However, I was hoping to get out of the area for residency just to see a different part of the country and broaden my perspective a bit. I did the similar thing for undergrad, and it really helped me appreciate where I’m from and exposed me to ideas and views that I wouldn’t have experienced at home.

(Side note:
I’m not sure if that’s a silly thing to prioritize at this stage, though. I know matching close to home is a big plus for a lot of people. I’ve also heard academic programs might offer more opportunities for research if I pursue fellowship, but they only match a handful into those each year.)

I also think I’d be content with a less competitive specialty, but I was hoping to keep the door open if I ended up wanting something more competitive later on. And yes, there are a lot of new MD and DO schools popping up, so I was also worried a bit about competition in the next 4 years and how PDs would differentiate between applicants.

(Not sure if that’s too early to be worrying about this now.)

Definitely the MCAT retake is a huge factor. I’ve read a lot of advice warning against trying to study for it during an SMP. I have a shakier background in biochem, so I was hoping the SMP might help me naturally reinforce those sections (my lowest scores) as I go. It would still be a lot to manage during an SMP though. With the DO school, I would only have to worry about classes and starting the foundations for COMPLEX and STEP studying.

Thank you again for your perspective! Happy to hear from a happy DO!

 

[dial1010usa]

I went thru DO SMP route because my stats were not that great very similar to yours in 2017-2018. Everyone wants to go to M D route but they don't look at their gpa, MCAT and EC. I would;d suggest grab this opportunity and go DO route. Be appreciative that you got DO acceptance. Once you are in med school lot of things will change you may not want to go speciality and DO students do well even my classmates went to all kind of specialities. I wouldn't try SMP in order to go to MD because that's not 100% sure you will get in. Another hurdle what if you won't get 502 in MCAT and then that will look bad for DO route.
Just forget everything and move on to DO. Just telling you from my experience it's a long journey. I'm a 3rd year resident. Done SMP linking DO and accepted to same DO school. If I want I can go to fellowship but I'm already burnout. Already got job and starting end of this year.
All the best!!!

 

[Meganerd2012]

I went thru DO SMP route because my stats were not that great very similar to yours in 2017-2018. Everyone wants to go to M D route but they don't look at their gpa, MCAT and EC. I would;d suggest grab this opportunity and go DO route. Be appreciative that you got DO acceptance. Once you are in med school lot of things will change you may not want to go speciality and DO students do well even my classmates went to all kind of specialities. I wouldn't try SMP in order to go to MD because that's not 100% sure you will get in. Another hurdle what if you won't get 502 in MCAT and then that will look bad for DO route.
Just forget everything and move on to DO. Just telling you from my experience it's a long journey. I'm a 3rd year resident. Done SMP linking DO and accepted to same DO school. If I want I can go to fellowship but I'm already burnout. Already got job and starting end of this year.
All the best!!!

Thank you for your advice, and congrats on your job!

And, yes, it’s easy to get caught up in chasing MD. I have a real chance to medicine with the DO acceptance which I am grateful for. Definitely as I make my final decision, I’m trying to stay grounded and honest about where I am mentally and emotionally.

I’ve heard that things can shift while in med school. Definitely can believe that as I had a shift in undergrad, so I can see med school causing a big one too. I think part of my anxiety is wanting to keep all doors open in case I fall in love with something competitive. I’m unfortunately very aware of burnout, so I don’t want to lose myself trying to prove something, either.

Thank you again for your perspective!

 

[dial1010usa]

Thank you for your advice, and congrats on your job!

And, yes, it’s easy to get caught up in chasing MD. I have a real chance to medicine with the DO acceptance which I am grateful for. Definitely as I make my final decision, I’m trying to stay grounded and honest about where I am mentally and emotionally.

I’ve heard that things can shift while in med school. Definitely can believe that as I had a shift in undergrad, so I can see med school causing a big one too. I think part of my anxiety is wanting to keep all doors open in case I fall in love with something competitive. I’m unfortunately very aware of burnout, so I don’t want to lose myself trying to prove something, either.

Thank you again for your perspective!

It's doable just relax and study hard. Grab this DO acceptance and don't look back. All the best!

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Are your acceptances into newer DO schools? If one is an established school with experienced faculty and clinical rotation sites, it would be hard to turn that down. Otherwise, take the acceptance that helps you get to where you want to go in life. Watch the residency match game closely, as it changes rapidly. Make yourself the best candidate possible to increase your chances of successfully matching. That most likely will include research. Good luck and Best Wishes!

 

[Dr. Anonymouss]

Which DO school is it? depends on your answer, but overall I'd say take the guaranteed DO acceptance. As someone who went to MD school and also had fears of DO schools, I can say that I have met some really fantastic DO residents. Important to mention is that you are not excluded from any specialties by being a DO. The specialties you are interested in are DO friendly. Yes there are some specialties which aren't DO friendly, but there are still a good amount of DO students who match into those fields every year. The school ultimately not be the thing that hold you back. Your future residency is ultimately in your hands and how you perform in medical school. In addition, you are losing out on 300-500k income by skipping a year + going into more debt by doing a year of SMP. This is all for a risk of getting into an MD school. Don't risk it, just go DO

 

[Meganerd2012]

Which DO school is it? depends on your answer, but overall I'd say take the guaranteed DO acceptance. As someone who went to MD school and also had fears of DO schools, I can say that I have met some really fantastic DO residents. Important to mention is that you are not excluded from any specialties by being a DO. The specialties you are interested in are DO friendly. Yes there are some specialties which aren't DO friendly, but there are still a good amount of DO students who match into those fields every year. The school ultimately not be the thing that hold you back. Your future residency is ultimately in your hands and how you perform in medical school. In addition, you are losing out on 300-500k income by skipping a year + going into more debt by doing a year of SMP. This is all for a risk of getting into an MD school. Don't risk it, just go DO

Are your acceptances into newer DO schools? If one is an established school with experienced faculty and clinical rotation sites, it would be hard to turn that down. Otherwise, take the acceptance that helps you get to where you want to go in life. Watch the residency match game closely, as it changes rapidly. Make yourself the best candidate possible to increase your chances of successfully matching. That most likely will include research. Good luck and Best Wishes!

PCOM South GA.

Thank you for the encouragement and advice! Do you have any advice on how to make myself a good candidate starting oms1?

 

[minst]

wait which SMP program garuntees an acceptance?

 

[Goro]

wait which SMP program garuntees an acceptance?

There are a few of them out there.
LECOM
EVMS

 

[minst]

There are a few of them out there.
LECOM
EVMS

i mean or MD?

Also evms doesn’t garuntee an acceptance

 

[Goro]

i mean or MD?

Also evms doesn’t garuntee an acceptance

Maybe Rosy Franklin

 

[Angus Avagadro]

PCOM South GA.

Thank you for the encouragement and advice! Do you have any advice on how to make myself a good candidate starting oms1?

Research. Look for a mentor early. Most applicants to competitive residencies have several publications. Your med school mentor can help. If you are considering FM or Peds, research is less important . Also, review Charting Outcomes to see match rates for DOs and MDs, and their stats. That will give you a target to shoot for with respect to Board Scores and match rate.percentages.

 

[Meganerd2012]

Research. Look for a mentor early. Most applicants to competitive residencies have several publications. Your med school mentor can help. If you are considering FM or Peds, research is less important . Also, review Charting Putcomes to see match rates for DOs and MDs, and their stats. That will give you a target to shoot for with respect to Board Scores and match rate.percentages.

Thank you for the advice!

 

[Meganerd2012]

If I can’t find housing, is that a legitimate reason to defer? I might be able to find something maybe 2+ hours out but anywhere closer is looking limited.

 

[wysdoc]

If I can’t find housing, is that a legitimate reason to defer? I might be able to find something maybe 2+ hours out but anywhere closer is looking limited.

This is not a viable reason for deferral
Get the name of a local realtor and ask for help looking for rentals.
Search Realtor.com site for rentals within 20 minutes of your school.
Get on the student chat group for your school and see if anyone needs a roommate.

 

[Meganerd2012]

This is not a viable reason for deferral
Get the name of a local realtor and ask for help looking for rentals.
Search Realtor.com site for rentals within 20 minutes of your school.
Get on the student chat group for your school and see if anyone needs a roommate.

Not too many places left in Moultrie, GA, but I’ll try to reach out to see if anyone is still looking for a roommate. I’ll also start looking at Valdosta and Tifton. 45min to 1 hr drive but gotta do what I have to do. Already drive 35 mins for work, and at least there won’t be traffic on rural roads.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

If I can’t find housing, is that a legitimate reason to defer? I might be able to find something maybe 2+ hours out but anywhere closer is looking limited.

Stop making excuses. Student services and organizations will help you. Get it done.

Student Housing Options and Nearby Apartments | PCOM South Georgia

Find off-campus student housing options and apartment complexes near PCOM South Georgia, located in Moultrie, GA.

www.pcom.edu

 

[Meganerd2012]

Stop making excuses. Student services and organizations will help you. Get it done.

Student Housing Options and Nearby Apartments | PCOM South Georgia

Find off-campus student housing options and apartment complexes near PCOM South Georgia, located in Moultrie, GA.

www.pcom.edu

I’m not? I was just asking just in case worst comes to worst. I said I was willing to commute 1-2 hours if nothing else. Would it be a pain, yes, but sometimes you have to do with the best you have. Thanks for the link.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I’m not? I was just asking just in case worst comes to worst. I said I was willing to commute 1-2 hours if nothing else. Would it be a pain, yes, but sometimes you have to do with the best you have. Thanks for the link.

I'm just saying, you have help as a new student. You are not alone. Other medical students who attend medical school in more population-dense places (think New York or San Francisco) often have a 1-2 hour commute to campus. It's temporary until you're done with your first lease or until you begin clerkships where you might be spread out to different places.

 

[Meganerd2012]

I'm just saying, you have help as a new student. You are not alone. Other medical students who attend medical school in more population-dense places (think New York or San Francisco) often have a 1-2 hour commute to campus. It's temporary until you're done with your first lease or until you begin clerkships where you might be spread out to different places.

Yeah, I figure that I can take it one year at a time. Plus I’ll be traveling for rotations so it will help me get familiar with areas the other sites are in.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Easy decision. Take the DO acceptance and run. The only thing the smp is guaranteeing is that they’ll take your tuition money. You have to murder the smp AND get a better score on the mcat.

What if you retake the mcat and get a lower score? Or you just do okay in the smp (these are typically seen as “diet medschool” so the expectation from the outside is that you excel)? Well then congrats on making yourself less competitive for the next cycle.

BTW, an SMP will NOT help you with MCAT biochem. Mcat biochem is about knowing some big picture steps and being able to critically think in a way to answer 2nd and 3rd order questions about chemical bonds and reactions. Med school biochem is like memorizing the phone book. You just memorize that this thing turns into this thing and then that thing turns into another thing a million times. You don’t even think about the structure of anything 99% of the time. Med school is nothing like the mcat. A 500 mcat means you understand enough about basic science to make it through and everything else is just gravy.

Housing concerns: reach out to your school about it and they’ll get you in touch with the right people. A bunch of current M2’s are about to leave for rotations.

Competitive specialty and geographic concerns: I’m a radiology resident >1000 miles away from my school where I have no personal ties and my school has never sent anybody to. Plenty of subspecialty surgeons in my class had a similar experience. It’s fine. The secret to getting a competitive specialty as a DO is super simple: Don’t count on your school to spoon feed it to you. Your school is there to teach you the stuff you need to pass boards and learn how to eventually function as an intern. All the CV building stuff for a competitive specialty is on you. If you want research, talk to the people at your smp or another MD school about being their research monkey. It is harder as a DO, but that difference is at most a research year (which would be the same amount of time as an smp). If you can’t match your dream specialty after taking a research year, it’s unlikely you would have matched it as an MD imo.

2 sets of boards concerns: Everyone whines about this and I was no exception to this rule. But the reality is that you just study for the step exams throughout med school and you take them a week before comlex. During that in between week you cram omm for level 1 and omm + ethics for level 2. This involves some short anki decks you can do in a couple hours total and watching like 2 YouTube videos. Heck, I actually forgot omm existed until the morning of level 2 and just crammed it the best I could in the parking lot. It’s annoying to pay for them. But that’s much cheaper than an smp.

OMM/OMT concerns: I studied other stuff in omm labs and just crammed it a day or two before every test. And I went to school at the OMM capital of the world. It’s not that bad. It’s just that while you’re in it you’re annoyed because it’s just one more thing.

Conclusion: I’ve worked with students from a couple top MD schools, “average” MD schools, and DO students. There’s no real difference. It’s all BS. It’s not perfect but this is your shot so make the most of it. I got a great education from my DO school and got every career opportunity I wanted from the experience. You can too. Buckle up because it’s gonna be a wild ride. Congrats, doc!

 

[Goro]

I’m not? I was just asking just in case worst comes to worst. I said I was willing to commute 1-2 hours if nothing else. Would it be a pain, yes, but sometimes you have to do with the best you have. Thanks for the link.

Tough love time. Driving 1-2 hrs each way means you'll lose 2-4 hours of study time each day.

I'm trying to say this in the nicest possible way, but that's a recipe for failing courses and having to repeat a year, or getting dismissed.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Just to reinforce what my learned colleagues have said, the 1st two yrs of med school and will stress all but the most elite students to the max. My wife is a person where nothing is hard for for her. In med school, she went to class to drink coffee and socialize while graduating in the top 10% of her university class. I, meanwhile, slept with an open book on top of my head and prayed for osmosis. TLDR, find housing close to school. There is a huge non monetary benefit. You can't get much studying done in the car.