DO admissions and academic history

[MrReno]

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Just wanted to say hello SDN. I was referred by a friend to this site, and there's a wealth of information here. I know I'm a newbie, and I'm trying to figure out the common rules before posting a topic. Just wanted an opinion from you all.

I recently discovered osteopathic medicine a few months ago, but I was in the middle of the application process for an allopathic school. I knew I was a long shot because of my academic history (my school seems to accept the "perfect" students from day 1 of college), but I thought to give it a chance. I was recently rejected, but I wasn't devastated because I felt my philosophy about medicine wasn't in line with allopathic medicine. I would love to apply to osteopathic schools, but I'm afraid of my academic history would be a major obstacle for admission.

From AMCAS's calculation, my overall GPA is 3.25, and my science is 3.16. My sophmore year took a terrible toll because I just couldn't find a field I like to study in, and I wasn't even thinking about medicine. By my senior year, I started liking biology a lot, and decided to major in it. It took a bit of getting my ass handed to me, but eventually I persevered and finished out my last 2 years with mostly A's, and earned departmental honors. However, with the massive amount of credits I earned, that wasn't enough to pull me ahead to a more comfortable GPA, but the positive trend is there.

What I'm afraid is that osteopathic schools would still search out that perfect student who did everything right straight out of high school. Judging from the threads, this doesn't seem to be the case. But I want to hear what you think, and your experiences with admissions for osteopathic schools. I don't want to apply if my grades will bar me from even getting an interview. Basically, does osteopathic schools view academic records in its entirety (seeing positive trends, honors, etc.), or just the end result number? Sometimes I kick myself in the butt for not majoring in biology earlier and doing well, but hindsight is 20/20.

Also, I guess you guys need other requisite info. My mcats is 25Q (8B, 8P, 9V). I volunteered in the pediatrics unit for 2 years, and did a lot of research for 2 years. Hoping to get 2 papers published soon. I know my ECs isn't a huge laundry list, but the few ECs I've done, I've committed a lot of my time in.

I hate to make this thread into a "what are my chances" thread. But basically, the question I'm asking is how do osteopathic school admissions view this type of academic history, and is there anything I should improve before even applying? Thank you so much for any information you can provide.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

Just wanted to say hello SDN. I was referred by a friend to this site, and there's a wealth of information here. I know I'm a newbie, and I'm trying to figure out the common rules before posting a topic. Just wanted an opinion from you all.

I recently discovered osteopathic medicine a few months ago, but I was in the middle of the application process for an allopathic school. I knew I was a long shot because of my academic history (my school seems to accept the "perfect" students from day 1 of college), but I thought to give it a chance. I was recently rejected, but I wasn't devastated because I felt my philosophy about medicine wasn't in line with allopathic medicine. I would love to apply to osteopathic schools, but I'm afraid of my academic history would be a major obstacle for admission.

From AMCAS's calculation, my overall GPA is 3.25, and my science is 3.16. My sophmore year took a terrible toll because I just couldn't find a field I like to study in, and I wasn't even thinking about medicine. By my senior year, I started liking biology a lot, and decided to major in it. It took a bit of getting my ass handed to me, but eventually I persevered and finished out my last 2 years with mostly A's, and earned departmental honors. However, with the massive amount of credits I earned, that wasn't enough to pull me ahead to a more comfortable GPA, but the positive trend is there.

What I'm afraid is that osteopathic schools would still search out that perfect student who did everything right straight out of high school. Judging from the threads, this doesn't seem to be the case. But I want to hear what you think, and your experiences with admissions for osteopathic schools. I don't want to apply if my grades will bar me from even getting an interview. Basically, does osteopathic schools view academic records in its entirety (seeing positive trends, honors, etc.), or just the end result number? Sometimes I kick myself in the butt for not majoring in biology earlier and doing well, but hindsight is 20/20.

Also, I guess you guys need other requisite info. My mcats is 25Q (8B, 8P, 9V). I volunteered in the pediatrics unit for 2 years, and did a lot of research for 2 years. Hoping to get 2 papers published soon. I know my ECs isn't a huge laundry list, but the few ECs I've done, I've committed a lot of my time in.

I hate to make this thread into a "what are my chances" thread. But basically, the question I'm asking is how do osteopathic school admissions view this type of academic history, and is there anything I should improve before even applying? Thank you so much for any information you can provide.

One thing about DO admissions that will definitely help you is that they allow you to retake courses and only count the latest attempt. This means that if you go from C to A, the C doesn't get calculated in your gpa. However, if you go from C to F, I think the F will be calculated in. I would defintely do that, after a few semesters of retakes, you may find yourself with a significantly higher aacom gpa.

Also, if you really really want to get into an allo school, you could try a special master's program (SMP) as a last resort. Look it up in the postbacc forum or in the search engine.

 

[MrReno]

I wasn't aware of that. I did have a few retakes, in which I did much better my second time around. This was the time I started to turn things around academically. AMCAS averages the two, I think. Since I graduated already, would they still count the latest grade for a retake?

 

[engineeredout]

I wasn't aware of that. I did have a few retakes, in which I did much better my second time around. This was the time I started to turn things around academically. AMCAS averages the two, I think. Since I graduated already, would they still count the latest grade for a retake?

Yes

 

[Semicolon]

Just wanted to say hello SDN. I was referred by a friend to this site, and there's a wealth of information here. I know I'm a newbie, and I'm trying to figure out the common rules before posting a topic. Just wanted an opinion from you all.

I recently discovered osteopathic medicine a few months ago, but I was in the middle of the application process for an allopathic school. I knew I was a long shot because of my academic history (my school seems to accept the "perfect" students from day 1 of college), but I thought to give it a chance. I was recently rejected, but I wasn't devastated because I felt my philosophy about medicine wasn't in line with allopathic medicine. I would love to apply to osteopathic schools, but I'm afraid of my academic history would be a major obstacle for admission.

Don't apply to osteopathic schools for the philosophy; there isn't a different philosophy compared to that of allopathic medicine. At least there isn't anymore. (Of course, you'll still have to act like there is in order to get in. 😀)

From AMCAS's calculation, my overall GPA is 3.25, and my science is 3.16. My sophmore year took a terrible toll because I just couldn't find a field I like to study in, and I wasn't even thinking about medicine. By my senior year, I started liking biology a lot, and decided to major in it. It took a bit of getting my ass handed to me, but eventually I persevered and finished out my last 2 years with mostly A's, and earned departmental honors. However, with the massive amount of credits I earned, that wasn't enough to pull me ahead to a more comfortable GPA, but the positive trend is there.

AACOMAS doesn't have a BCPM GPA like AMCAS does; AACOMAS has a very specific science GPA that does not include math and includes a whole variety of science subjects. If you have a lot of credits, you may have a considerably different GPA for AACOMAS (usually higher). And schools love seeing positive trends.

What I'm afraid is that osteopathic schools would still search out that perfect student who did everything right straight out of high school. Judging from the threads, this doesn't seem to be the case. But I want to hear what you think, and your experiences with admissions for osteopathic schools. I don't want to apply if my grades will bar me from even getting an interview. Basically, does osteopathic schools view academic records in its entirety (seeing positive trends, honors, etc.), or just the end result number? Sometimes I kick myself in the butt for not majoring in biology earlier and doing well, but hindsight is 20/20.

That is definitely not the case for osteopathic medical schools (and sounds like something a pre-med advisor would have you believe). Your GPAs won't bar you from admissions, but to get a better idea you should find out what your AACOMAS GPA is. While you are below the average for DO schools, if you apply very early you'll have a chance.

Also, I hope you didn't just major in Biology because bio=pre-med; that's just too large of a misconception. 😉

 

[BNZN32]

You may get in... But you're GPA and MCAT are both below average. Extra curriculars are important, but may only carry you so far. If I were you I would calculate my GPA w/ AACOMAS rules. If GPA is still low, and you have a lot of Cs and below on your transcript I would retake the lowest grades and make sure to get As. This will really improve your GPA. If there isn't much potential for getting your GPA up into the average/above average range w/in the next millenia, then I would focus on improving my MCAT score. Get as close to 30 as possible, (30+ ideally) so that you really have something to hang your hat on. This is much more feasible than trying to raise a GPA when you have a lot of credits and few possible retakes. Apply early, study hard for the MCAT over the summer, take the test in August, and update schools w/ your new and improved score in Sept. If you made 27-29 your chances would be much better, 30+ and I would bet money you'd get in somewhere (barring some sort of easily detectable personality disorder). Again, not saying you can't get in as-is, but it seems most people who are below average in one area and get in also are above average in another.

 

[MrReno]

Also, I hope you didn't just major in Biology because bio=pre-med; that's just too large of a misconception. 😉

oh dear god no. i searched out various majors, taking a few courses to see if i liked it. business, computer science, psychology, etc. biology was the only major that actually held my interest past the introductory classes.

 

[FlaMedic]

Just go for it dude (dudette?). I am sure you will get in.
Make a spreadsheet to calc. your GPA using the AACOMAS re-take system. and I'm sure you will be pleasantly surprised. I got in to a few schools with 23Q, I'm sure you can do the same. Best of luck....

 

[dozitgetchahi]

Hey man.

First, I'd recommend bumping that MCAT up a bit. The closer you can get it to 30, the better your chances get here, and if you can push it over 30 that'd be icing on the cake.

Second, if you are able to take any further college classes I'd look carefully at the types of subjects included in the AACOMAS science GPA and take a few of the easiest classes offered in some of those departments. For instance, if I remember correctly astronomy classes count into the science GPA for AACOMAS purposes and most schools have at least a few really easy non-majors astronomy classes.

 

[BNZN32]

Just go for it dude (dudette?). I am sure you will get in.
Make a spreadsheet to calc. your GPA using the AACOMAS re-take system. and I'm sure you will be pleasantly surprised. I got in to a few schools with 23Q, I'm sure you can do the same. Best of luck....

Just b/c you got in w/ a 23 doesn't mean this will be the case for all/most/many low MCATers. The list for people w/ a 23 who got rejected is probably MUCH longer than the list of those accepted.

Also, you have a 3.6 GPA, OP has 3.25 so far. Big difference.

I think OP should apply. But they shouldn't be artificially optimistic because your study of n=1 shows that MCAT doesn't matter.🙄

 

[MrReno]

i appreciate all your responses and opinions.

i was curious how the different gpa calculation rules would affect me. here are the differences according to the DO FAQs here in the forum.

AMCAS - 3.25 overall 3.16 science
possible AACOMAS - 3.32 overall 3.48 science.

i am seriously thinking about retaking the MCATs, as some of you have suggested. any differences how the schools use the scores? do they only take the most recent scores? highest or lowest subscores? i can't seem to find that on my searches.

 

[Styria]

There are schools where osteopathic philosophy matters more than others. But you need to actually visit them to find out which they are. Even at the ones saying there's no difference in medical education (which does them no favor when they're trying to sell their school to you...), you'll still come out with far more experience and comfort level in touching your patients due to the time spent in OMM.

Osteopathic medicine simply is holistic. You can limit it to a purely mechanistic view of the body and leave out the mind/body/spirit and it would still be holistic. You don't have to use the term "holistic" when explaining it to people, and they will still come to that conclusion solely based on your thought processes as a physician. Allopathic medicine, when it is holistic (and the AMA refuses to espouse any philosophy), is so mostly in a reactionary way, because holistic care has become a popular fad and people are looking for it. If osteopathic philosophy is what you want, by all means go for it.

Your grades/scores are good enough, and you have the trend in your favor and will keep improving. Your volunteering and research are good too. I think what will set you apart more will be if you can show DO schools why you would be a good, caring physician. Has anyone been under your care before? What qualities do you have that show your ability to treat others, versus likelihood to succeed in medical school?

In my case, being an EMT with long transport times meant 40+ minutes of direct, focused patient care, talking to them, getting to know them, being responsible for our own treatments vs. dumping them on someone else in just 5 minutes. Be introspective so you can get ready to sell yourself, 'I will be a good clinician because X, Y, Z' and here are some examples for each. You have a good trend in grades, peds volunteering, and research. Be ready for AACOMAS' May launch. You can't fix a GPA or MCAT in that time, but you can grab some ECs that will demonstrate your character, and that will go much further.

 

[endocardium]

i am seriously thinking about retaking the MCATs, as some of you have suggested. any differences how the schools use the scores? do they only take the most recent scores? highest or lowest subscores? i can't seem to find that on my searches.

I think this would depend the individual school, but a better score will surely help you in any case. Go ahead and retake it if you have evidence to think you'll do significantly better.

 

[MossPoh]

i appreciate all your responses and opinions.

i was curious how the different gpa calculation rules would affect me. here are the differences according to the DO FAQs here in the forum.

AMCAS - 3.25 overall 3.16 science
possible AACOMAS - 3.32 overall 3.48 science.

i am seriously thinking about retaking the MCATs, as some of you have suggested. any differences how the schools use the scores? do they only take the most recent scores? highest or lowest subscores? i can't seem to find that on my searches.

It depends on the school. Some take the most recent. Some (very few) take the best subset. Some take the highest.

I'd retake it. It certainly weren't hurt you to study your butt off and get a few points higher.

 

[endocardium]

There are schools where osteopathic philosophy matters more than others. But you need to actually visit them to find out which they are. Even at the ones saying there's no difference in medical education (which does them no favor when they're trying to sell their school to you...), you'll still come out with far more experience and comfort level in touching your patients due to the time spent in OMM.

Osteopathic medicine simply is holistic. You can limit it to a purely mechanistic view of the body and leave out the mind/body/spirit and it would still be holistic. You don't have to use the term "holistic" when explaining it to people, and they will still come to that conclusion solely based on your thought processes as a physician. Allopathic medicine, when it is holistic (and the AMA refuses to espouse any philosophy), is so mostly in a reactionary way, because holistic care has become a popular fad and people are looking for it. If osteopathic philosophy is what you want, by all means go for it.

And you know this because of extensive personal experience gathered attending an osteopathic medical school, going to national conferences, and the like, right, or are you just buying into propaganda and parroting what you heard? I suppose it's the fate of pre-medical students to romanticize the process. I don't blame you. After all, you have to believe in something. I am developing a minor hypersensitivity reaction to all this talk about holistic medicine and osteopathic philosophy, though, from people who don't have the background to really talk about it. It's never ceases to amaze me how people suddenly discover the wonders of osteopathic philosophy when they haven't been able to gain acceptance into an allopathic medical school. There's nothing wrong with that, though, as long as you are honest about it.

I hate to burst your bubble, but there really isn't anything that significantly different about attending an osteopathic medical school. It doesn't have some sort of magical process that is going to make you into a holistic, caring doctor, and similarly attending an allopathic one isn't going to make you an uncaring mechanic. That really depends on you and your character. It's true that I studied OMT and most of my allopathic colleagues did not, but it really just gave me an extra tool I can use in certain limited situations. That's about it. I don't think there was anything else different in my education. I've seen and worked with doctors on both sides of the fence and really it's their personal attitude that makes the difference, not some kind of perceived philosophy or what they learned while in school. Generalizing by degree is the real disservice here.

Anyway, back on topic. OP, if osteopathic medical schools interest you and are a good match to your personal criteria, then go for it. Go shadow an osteopathic physician who uses OMT regularly and see if it interests you. They are good schools and I think you would have a good shot at them. Retake the MCAT if you truly think you can do better and it should help your case even more.

 

[chinagal]

i think that if you applied very early to all the DO schools with your current stats, you would be able to get interviews to about a quarter of them and you should get accepted to at least one of them.......this is just my opinion but i really reccomend applying early

 

[Styria]

And you know this because of extensive personal experience gathered attending an osteopathic medical school, going to national conferences, and the like, right, or are you just buying into propaganda and parroting what you heard? I suppose it's the fate of pre-medical students to romanticize the process. I don't blame you. After all, you have to believe in something. I am developing a minor hypersensitivity reaction to all this talk about holistic medicine and osteopathic philosophy, though, from people who don't have the background to really talk about it. It's never ceases to amaze me how people suddenly discover the wonders of osteopathic philosophy when they haven't been able to gain acceptance into an allopathic medical school. There's nothing wrong with that, though, as long as you are honest about it.

I have a long family history of osteopathic medicine and am not ignorant. I know, or know of, too many people for whom it made a difference, and have found more often enough, particularly among the elderly. That doesn't make me better than you or a member of an osteo-masonic gnostic cult with secret knowledge. I also didn't even consider medicine until after I was in college—there's no indoctrination. Osteopathic philosophy ultimately includes some humanism, and that's part of it I don't accept.

I avoid talking about holistic medicine because "holistic" has become a pop culture meme that has much more to do with naturopaths than osteopaths.

To the OP:
OMT is a tool. It's use or lack thereof has plenty to do with personality. Shadow some DOs and find out why. Sometimes it's because they consider some techniques too slow or time-consuming, or maybe they like the satisfying "pop!" of another. Evidence-based medicine is practiced by fallible humans, even if that's the basis for conducting your own future practice.

Some schools teach that there is no difference between osteopathic and allopathic medicine. DMU-COM admitted they do during my interview, even though they have a great OMT tool program for the many fine physicians they've turned out. So this view is no neutral party and has its own parrots as a result of education. If you believe there is a difference, and that's really what you're looking for, ask around ahead of time and save on fees. Find out who is on curriculum committees and ask them how things are structured and how your interests are emphasized. And talk to enough students and DOs (and patients...) to form your own opinion on these matters.

 

[endocardium]

I have a long family history of osteopathic medicine and am not ignorant.

That's great, I didn't know that. Please know that I never considered you or any pre-medical student ignorant; you do have a clue, of course. However, even if you do come from a long line of osteopathic physicians and talked to a lot of physicians, you are still effectively on the side-lines until you matriculate and accumulate some experience. It's the difference between someone who came from a family of football players, but only ever went to the games as a spectator, and someone who actually plays, or is learning to play, pro football. You can certainly learn a lot from talking with family members and through observation, but until you put on those pads and go out there and play the game, you can't really know what it's like. That said, I respect your point of view and it's not necessarily wrong. It's a point of view.

I know, or know of, too many people for whom it made a difference, and have found more often enough, particularly among the elderly. That doesn't make me better than you or a member of an osteo-masonic gnostic cult with secret knowledge. I also didn't even consider medicine until after I was in college—there's no indoctrination. Osteopathic philosophy ultimately includes some humanism, and that's part of it I don't accept.

I avoid talking about holistic medicine because "holistic" has become a pop culture meme that has much more to do with naturopaths than osteopaths.

Yeah, I think I got a bit carried away with my personification. I didn't mean to focus on you in particular, but meant it more as a general statement. I typically don't think in terms of "better than, or worse than" relative to where we are on a given path. Those ahead have more knowledge and experience, but it doesn't make them better, etc.

What is this "difference" you are talking about? I'm truly curious, because I haven't been able to observe it. What I want to say, I guess, is that I think all of medicine includes what I would consider osteopathic philosophy. There is nothing about osteopathic philosophy, at least from my personal experience in the field, that sets it apart from the modern practice of medicine, assuming we are talking about the same set of stated points. Perhaps there was a time when there was a difference, but I haven't been able to really see what sets us apart, besides the use of OMT--the few that use it regularly, anyway, if it's even practical for your given specialty. There is quite a bit of historical significance here, but really we are talking about history. Any clinician worth his or her weight in salt is going to agree and apply the common sense principles that once set osteopathic medicine apart. I agree, though, that OMT can be a great tool, and certainly I use it, but I don't see how that plays into philosophy. Maybe it's a matter of semantics and we are saying the same thing, I don't know.

To the OP:
OMT is a tool. It's use or lack thereof has plenty to do with personality. Shadow some DOs and find out why. Sometimes it's because they consider some techniques too slow or time-consuming, or maybe they like the satisfying "pop!" of another. Evidence-based medicine is practiced by fallible humans, even if that's the basis for conducting your own future practice.

Again, I agree with you. OMT is worth investigating. I think it's an excellent tool and good adjuvant therapy, although I consider it's use limited. This has nothing to do with philosophy.

Some schools teach that there is no difference between osteopathic and allopathic medicine. DMU-COM admitted they do during my interview, even though they have a great OMT tool program for the many fine physicians they've turned out. So this view is no neutral party and has its own parrots as a result of education. If you believe there is a difference, and that's really what you're looking for, ask around ahead of time and save on fees. Find out who is on curriculum committees and ask them how things are structured and how your interests are emphasized. And talk to enough students and DOs (and patients...) to form your own opinion on these matters.

DMU is just telling you the truth. There isn't any palpable difference the two these days, except for OMT, which is widely accepted to be the distinguishing element. Medicine is medicine, and OMT is a modality within it's scope, but the people who practice it are not a like. That's where you'll find the difference, not from where they went to school.

Anyway, that's my opinion, I suppose. Definitely talk to many and do your own research. Form your own opinions.

 

[FlaMedic]

Just b/c you got in w/ a 23 doesn't mean this will be the case for all/most/many low MCATers. The list for people w/ a 23 who got rejected is probably MUCH longer than the list of those accepted.

Also, you have a 3.6 GPA, OP has 3.25 so far. Big difference.

I think OP should apply. But they shouldn't be artificially optimistic because your study of n=1 shows that MCAT doesn't matter.🙄

I was just trying to encourage him/her because I know that helped me a lot when I was going through it. It's a rough process and any boost seems welcome....

 

[OrthoErik]

I'm not meaning to burst the D.O. "debate" occurring, but I wanted to get some input from those more experienced with osteopathic medicine and the application process.

Yes, you've heard it before. I have aspired to be a physician since I was a kid. Driving my trike around I knew one day-- I would be there. Now I can't say as a 5 year old I had any true path or calling I was destined to follow- only through my awakening and maturation through my undergraduate career have I truly learned why medicine is my calling. I struggled in my first year, and have fought the uphill battle since. Yes, there were a few C's that first and second semester of first year- but first semester 2nd year, I achieved a gpa of 3.92- and since have never fallen below a semester gpa of 3.7. I realized it was necessary that in order to be competative for medical school I essentially needed to bust my chops and get in gear. Now, its my senior year, I have a cumulative gpa of 3.5 and a science gpa around 3.4/3.5, with nothing lower than a B since my freshman year. It's been an uphill battle ever since, my semester by semester gpa clearly shows it- my hope is that medical schools will take a hard look at this trend.

Yes, there are EC's: CPR instructor, Pre-Health and Research Advisor for the Biology department, Science Club Coordinator for underprivileged Middle school children and over 300 hours of clinical experience.

I recently visited Ohio University's Osteopathic Medical School--students from my undergraduate institution (private) have a good reputation and I have heard positive reviews from recent students. I contacted and met with the director of admissions--talked to him for nearly 2.5 hours then took a tour of the medical campus. I came to this mini-interview prepared; copies of my most recent publications, publications currently in review, a CV and a informal print of my grades semester by semester. It was great not only talking to him for so long, but also because it gave me such insight into how to have an "edge" when I apply the first week of June. The director at the end of the meeting mentioned he had a strong sense of my drive and passion to become a physician-- something that built my confidence more than anything. Guess the visit was the perfect thing to do about a month and half before my MCAT. If you're wondering, I didn't take my MCAT my junior year of undergrad because I didn't feel prepared-- and didn't plan on taking it a second time if I didn't score well. Now the fire is beneath me with a month and a half left. My MCAT scores (on my last two AAMC practice full lengths) are definitely not where I would like to have them--definitely worried and working to improve them.

My question(s) to anyone willing to answer--Yes, how do you feel I measure up--I know that schools love upward trends, ec's, ect--but I think of myself as a different applicant, someone who has a empathic and perceptive- if it gives you any idea, I almost cried in the director of admissions office when we talked about passion, empathy and my future medical career. I've worked on holding back the feelings- I just want to relay these to the medical schools- hoping they will see me in the light that I feel has called me. How do you guys feel I can fare in the application process? I am taking my MCAT May 2nd, and then plan on finishing my application before my June 2nd score release date. I would love to apply early June, interview by the end of September, and hopefully hear shortly thereafter.

Thanks for hearing me out and I welcome any comments/advice ect.


Thanks guys/gals!🙂

 

[spicedmanna]

I'm not meaning to burst the D.O. "debate" occurring, but I wanted to get some input from those more experienced with osteopathic medicine and the application process.

...

Thanks for hearing me out and I welcome any comments/advice ect.

Well, Erik, you seem like a pretty good applicant to me, so far. I wouldn't worry too much about the lower grades you had during freshman year. It happens and adcoms know that. The important thing is that you matured from the process and demonstrated your academic ability by doing well since that time. You figured out what happened, what you needed to do, and then got your butt in gear. That all should work in your favor. The main thing right now is doing well on your MCAT. It's hard to make a good assessment of chances/options w/o an actual MCAT score. Go over to the MCAT forum, use all the resources available, and do your best, because even though most medical schools are going to judge you on your complete application file, the MCAT does have considerable weight in the process.

As far as being a "different" applicant because of your predilection toward empathy and the like, well, many people like to think they are different because of that. I'm not sure how to respond to that, but think this is something you can demonstrate (that's the operative word here), in addition to other outstanding qualities that you think will make you an excellent candidate for medical school and an awesome doctor, through your essays and interview. If you allow yourself to shine through, the adcoms should pick up on it, and that's what they are looking for, anyway.

I mean, I think it's awesome that you are very empathetic and it should definitely work in your favor, but you have to have the grades, the EC's, and the MCAT, too, to show that you can succeed in medical school and the demands of being a physician. I think medical schools want outstanding people w/ good ability to make it through the process academically (for which they want evidence). Really, in the application process, it all counts. You need to have all your best cards in play.

Good luck on the MCAT and in the application process.

 

[MrReno]

3.5/3.5

i wish i had that right now 🙁

 

[sardaukar]

I just wanna say that DO admissions is getting more and more competitive every year. AND THERE IS ONLY 25 SCHOOLS!

 

[dozitgetchahi]

I'm not meaning to burst the D.O. "debate" occurring, but I wanted to get some input from those more experienced with osteopathic medicine and the application process.

Yes, you've heard it before. I have aspired to be a physician since I was a kid. Driving my trike around I knew one day-- I would be there. Now I can't say as a 5 year old I had any true path or calling I was destined to follow- only through my awakening and maturation through my undergraduate career have I truly learned why medicine is my calling. I struggled in my first year, and have fought the uphill battle since. Yes, there were a few C's that first and second semester of first year- but first semester 2nd year, I achieved a gpa of 3.92- and since have never fallen below a semester gpa of 3.7. I realized it was necessary that in order to be competative for medical school I essentially needed to bust my chops and get in gear. Now, its my senior year, I have a cumulative gpa of 3.5 and a science gpa around 3.4/3.5, with nothing lower than a B since my freshman year. It's been an uphill battle ever since, my semester by semester gpa clearly shows it- my hope is that medical schools will take a hard look at this trend.

Yes, there are EC's: CPR instructor, Pre-Health and Research Advisor for the Biology department, Science Club Coordinator for underprivileged Middle school children and over 300 hours of clinical experience.

I recently visited Ohio University's Osteopathic Medical School--students from my undergraduate institution (private) have a good reputation and I have heard positive reviews from recent students. I contacted and met with the director of admissions--talked to him for nearly 2.5 hours then took a tour of the medical campus. I came to this mini-interview prepared; copies of my most recent publications, publications currently in review, a CV and a informal print of my grades semester by semester. It was great not only talking to him for so long, but also because it gave me such insight into how to have an "edge" when I apply the first week of June. The director at the end of the meeting mentioned he had a strong sense of my drive and passion to become a physician-- something that built my confidence more than anything. Guess the visit was the perfect thing to do about a month and half before my MCAT. If you're wondering, I didn't take my MCAT my junior year of undergrad because I didn't feel prepared-- and didn't plan on taking it a second time if I didn't score well. Now the fire is beneath me with a month and a half left. My MCAT scores (on my last two AAMC practice full lengths) are definitely not where I would like to have them--definitely worried and working to improve them.

My question(s) to anyone willing to answer--Yes, how do you feel I measure up--I know that schools love upward trends, ec's, ect--but I think of myself as a different applicant, someone who has a empathic and perceptive- if it gives you any idea, I almost cried in the director of admissions office when we talked about passion, empathy and my future medical career. I've worked on holding back the feelings- I just want to relay these to the medical schools- hoping they will see me in the light that I feel has called me. How do you guys feel I can fare in the application process? I am taking my MCAT May 2nd, and then plan on finishing my application before my June 2nd score release date. I would love to apply early June, interview by the end of September, and hopefully hear shortly thereafter.

Thanks for hearing me out and I welcome any comments/advice ect.


Thanks guys/gals!🙂

That's actually not too far off from the sort of grade situation I was in, and I had no trouble getting interviews and acceptances this cycle. As long as you have an MCAT score in the upper 20s or so, I think you will be absolutely fine (btw, my MCAT score was 31, and my final cGPA was 3.63, sGPA 3.64) Plus, my primaries weren't submitted until late July and weren't certified until mid-September, so you'll have an "edge" by applying earlier than I did.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Retake the MCAT. 25 is too low.

 

[MrReno]

thanks for all the advice. planning to take the mcat again in the future. also, i wanted to retake 2 courses at a college where i got 2 F's (really bad semester). did some calculations, and my gpa would be on par with averages of admitted students, going from 3.3 to 3.6. however, i rechecked my old college's website, and apparently they changed course titles, numbers, and even credits for one course (from 5 to 3). i can't find any information on the aacomas about course changes. anyone knows if i'm SOL?

 

[Chocolate Bear]

thanks for all the advice. planning to take the mcat again in the future. also, i wanted to retake 2 courses at a college where i got 2 F's (really bad semester). did some calculations, and my gpa would be on par with averages of admitted students, going from 3.3 to 3.6. however, i rechecked my old college's website, and apparently they changed course titles, numbers, and even credits for one course (from 5 to 3). i can't find any information on the aacomas about course changes. anyone knows if i'm SOL?

The retake needs to be >= the number of credit hours as the original. Other than that, the course name can be different if it's still the same class, essentially. It can be taken at a different school, also, so don't worry about your old school.

 

[MrReno]

does anyone believe that i should go into those 1 year masters programs? or should i just try and really get my mcat in the high 30s? or both?

money is an issue as well.

 

[Bleurberry]

What is this "difference" you are talking about? I'm truly curious, because I haven't been able to observe it. What I want to say, I guess, is that I think all of medicine includes what I would consider osteopathic philosophy. There is nothing about osteopathic philosophy, at least from my personal experience in the field, that sets it apart from the modern practice of medicine, assuming we are talking about the same set of stated points.

Doesn't Osteopathic medicine count as a modern medical practice?
How would you be able to see the difference in "philosophy" if you weren't simultaneously enrolled in an allopathic program and an osteopathic program, by the way? I mean how would you really know? And I'm just goading for arguments sake - because as much as you are mildly irritated by pre-meds saying there's a palpable difference in philosophy, I'm getting increasingly annoyed by pre-meds and DO MS's arguing until they are blue in the face otherwise. I'm sorry that some feel they were "duped" into thinking DO school was more holistic than it portended, but what EXACTLY were you told? Systems based learning with a musculoskeletal/fascial component and a mind for psycho-social elements and an emphasis on clinical judgement is good enough for me in terms of holism. That's just my honest opinion, and I've said my piece. That's been an itch I've been meaning to scratch - thanks.

 

[chup12682]

One thing about DO admissions that will definitely help you is that they allow you to retake courses and only count the latest attempt. This means that if you go from C to A, the C doesn't get calculated in your gpa. However, if you go from C to F, I think the F will be calculated in. I would defintely do that, after a few semesters of retakes, you may find yourself with a significantly higher aacom gpa.

Also, if you really really want to get into an allo school, you could try a special master's program (SMP) as a last resort. Look it up in the postbacc forum or in the search engine.

I am a non-trad student who has taken a post-bacc course and was wondering where you had heard this information about the grade selection and how prevalent is it? Thanks for the information. I hope you understand my speculation as my later grades are much better than my previous, and it would be a dream if schools went by this system.

 

[Chocolate Bear]

I am a non-trad student who has taken a post-bacc course and was wondering where you had heard this information about the grade selection and how prevalent is it? Thanks for the information. I hope you understand my speculation as my later grades are much better than my previous, and it would be a dream if schools went by this system.

It's all DO schools, except for TCOM, since they don't use the AACOMAS application.

 

[endocardium]

Doesn't Osteopathic medicine count as a modern medical practice?

Not all of it, I would say. Some practices shouldn't be continued and you don't have to be a genius to figure what these are. I'm not going to make broad generalizations, though. Go forth and learn all that osteopathic medicine has to offer and to paraphrase Bruce Lee, "take what is useful and discard what is not."

How would you be able to see the difference in "philosophy" if you weren't simultaneously enrolled in an allopathic program and an osteopathic program, by the way?

Well there's more than one way to skin a cat, so to speak. The pre-clinical years are just the beginning. Really, most of the practice of medicine, while definitely founded in the basic sciences, is learned in the wards. But for starters, I went to medical school in an area that has three medical schools in relatively the same locale, two of which are allopathic. We sometimes shared professors, clinical and basic science, and local rotation sites. I compared notes with allopathic colleagues, and really, the difference in what was taught during the pre-clinical years wasn't significantly different. If there is some huge difference in philosophy, I'm hard-pressed to find it. We use the exact same review course for preparing for the boards. The only difference is a few hours of OMT review. In the wards, we all learn from the same people, many of which are allopathic physicians. I've observed many of both types of physicians and students working side-by-side, and I can't see any difference in approach at all. We are all trying to learn the same thing and predominate approach is pretty standard. Yes, I do OMT every now and then, but I don't feel that it is effective or even appropriate for most of what I encounter. I suppose it depend on your area, though.

I mean how would you really know? And I'm just goading for arguments sake - because as much as you are mildly irritated by pre-meds saying there's a palpable difference in philosophy, I'm getting increasingly annoyed by pre-meds and DO MS's arguing until they are blue in the face otherwise.

I'm not that annoyed about it actually. I just don't like to propagate what I think is nothing more than pure propaganda and political BS. I don't need you to believe me. Go experience it for yourself. If you find some kind of awesome philosophical difference being taught and it works for you and your patients, well, good for you. You are probably in the minority. Like I said, I haven't come across anything to write home about in my education thus far, except OMT. While I do use it, I'm not buying into the cranial OMT crap and I don't believe in Chapman's points and the crazy unscientific idiocy found in some OMT textbooks. I guess, though, for some, beliefs can be more powerful than science. Whatever. To each their own, I suppose.

I'm sorry that some feel they were "duped" into thinking DO school was more holistic than it portended, but what EXACTLY were you told?

I don't feel duped. It is what it is. I knew what I was getting into when I signed up. Even if I didn't, it's still the choice I made and I'm fully responsible for that, rain or shine. Anyway, I'm glad everything happened the way that it did and I have no regrets.

Systems based learning with a musculoskeletal/fascial component and a mind for psycho-social elements and an emphasis on clinical judgement is good enough for me in terms of holism.

Let me turn this around: how's that different than what's taught in allopathic medical schools? Other than OMT (and some allopathic schools have that as an elective now), it's all the same, including the emphasis on the psychosocial and clinical judgment. I'd say that's fairly standard in the medical school curriculum. There's actually AMA guidelines on pre-clinical education of the more psychosocial and ethical items that a bunch of medical schools follow, including osteopathic ones. And we all definitely learn about the MSK system, there's no doubt about that.

That's just my honest opinion, and I've said my piece. That's been an itch I've been meaning to scratch - thanks.

Glad I could help you. My opinions are pretty worthless in regard to this subject and I probably shouldn't have even interjected. There's nothing I can say that will be of any benefit to you or others at your level, with regard to this topic. Just keep your mind open and experience it for yourself.

 

[MrReno]

i take it the whole "holistic" view of medicine is pretty much the advertising point to get people to enroll?

also funny thing was last saturday, i talked to a DO. i asked some questions, and basically said the same thing, and OMT is pretty useless. he didn't care, as long as he practices medicine. of course its only 1 person, but the sentiment is definately out there. if the whole holistic thing is just a selling point, then whatever, as long as i get to practice medicine.

also, how much weight is postbac grades considered for DO schools? i kinda screwed up in my grad bio class and got a C+. this semester, both my grad classes is getting A's. i'm worried if i screwed myself again.

 

[idunno666]

what about retaking a graduate level course? number 1, how bad does it look to have to do that and number 2, does aacomas factor in your newest grade with grad school courses as well?

 

[Semicolon]

what about retaking a graduate level course? number 1, how bad does it look to have to do that and number 2, does aacomas factor in your newest grade with grad school courses as well?

It will probably look worse to have to retake a grad course than an undergrad course, but that's what retakes are for. I'm 99.9% sure that AACOMAS will count the latest retake of any course, undergrad or grad.