DO and Ortho

[Faze2]

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From what I understand about oesteopathic medicine, it seems like you get a pretty solid backround of the skeletal and muscular system in your education. Most of the DO's I have spoken to, most of them EPs, tell me that when they entered residency, they had a much better understanding of problems that related to orthopedics, when compared to their MD collegues. I know Orhto is an extremely competative residency to match in, but my question is, why is it that ortho seems to be dominated by MDs? I am not in any way doubting the ability or education of these doctors, but it seems to me that a DO education, while very similar to the MD, would be perfect for a student interested in going into Orthopedics. And I would think that these programs would be much more DO friendly than they appear to be. Any thoughts?

****Disclaimer*****.
BEFORE ANYONE ANSWERS PLEASE READ THIS. I PROMISE I AM NOT TRYING TO START ANOTHER A DO VS MD THING HERE. SO PLEASE EVERYONE, LET'S NOT GO THERE. I AM ASKING AN HONEST QUESTION BECAUSE I DO NOT KNOW THE ANSWER, SO IF THERE ARE THINGS THAT I DID NOT MENTION, OR THINGS THAT I LEFT OUT, OR THINGS THAT I DO NOT UNDERSTAND, PLEASE EDUCATE ME ON THE SUBJECT. LET'S NOT TURN THIS INTO ANOTHER DO/MD PISSING CONTEST AND WASTE EACH OTHERS TIME.😀

 

[Krazykritter]

There a number of factors that play into your perception that any field is "MD dominated."

1) DO's only make up approximately 6% of the physician population. On top of being clearly in the minority, the distribution is very regional. People in some parts of the country don't really have any clue what osteopathic medicine is b/c they have either never heard of or never noticed the initials behind their physician's name.

2) Ortho is a competitive field. Period. To place into allopathic residencies, you have to be a competitive applicant & that is all dependent on your personal achievement (boards, LOR's, clinical performance). Some residency directors are still "good 'ol boys" & are not going to take a DO, but that trend will become less & less common as they are retiring & new PD's are coming up.

3) There are also many fewer osteopathic Orthopaedic surgery residency spots so that means that every year, more MD's that DO's are minted thus creating your perceived difference.

Bottomline -- Ortho is a tough field to get into for anyone. You need great board scores (USMLE included), LOR's, clinical (maybe preclinical) grades, & RESEARCH. Many of the more competitive fields now are having RESEARCH as a more important criteria b/c, IMO, it shows initiative on the part of the applicant (especially while in med school where you have 100 other things to worry about). Are some doors going to be shut to you? Sure. However, you have the opportunity to apply to DO residencies so in actuality if you are not tied to one area of the country, you may have a better shot at getting in if you apply broadly.

Hope this helps,
Kritter

 

[Faze2]

Good stuff Kritter. Thanks.

 

[Pansit]

From what I understand about oesteopathic medicine, it seems like you get a pretty solid backround of the skeletal and muscular system in your education. Most of the DO's I have spoken to, most of them EPs, tell me that when they entered residency, they had a much better understanding of problems that related to orthopedics, when compared to their MD collegues. I know Orhto is an extremely competative residency to match in, but my question is, why is it that ortho seems to be dominated by MDs? I am not in any way doubting the ability or education of these doctors, but it seems to me that a DO education, while very similar to the MD, would be perfect for a student interested in going into Orthopedics. And I would think that these programs would be much more DO friendly than they appear to be. Any thoughts?

****Disclaimer*****.
BEFORE ANYONE ANSWERS PLEASE READ THIS. I PROMISE I AM NOT TRYING TO START ANOTHER A DO VS MD THING HERE. SO PLEASE EVERYONE, LET'S NOT GO THERE. I AM ASKING AN HONEST QUESTION BECAUSE I DO NOT KNOW THE ANSWER, SO IF THERE ARE THINGS THAT I DID NOT MENTION, OR THINGS THAT I LEFT OUT, OR THINGS THAT I DO NOT UNDERSTAND, PLEASE EDUCATE ME ON THE SUBJECT. LET'S NOT TURN THIS INTO ANOTHER DO/MD PISSING CONTEST AND WASTE EACH OTHERS TIME.😀

I dont think that orthro is really as hard for DO's to place as say something like Neurosurgery or Plastics. But it is still highly competitive. If you look at Matchlists at DO schools, you will see several DO matches into Orthro programs for a majority portion of them.

It's sad that we now have to place disclaimers at the end of our posts so we can let all the defensive people know that we are not trolls and are not trying to incite anything

 

[JaggerPlate]

There a number of factors that play into your perception that any field is "MD dominated."

1) DO's only make up approximately 6% of the physician population. On top of being clearly in the minority, the distribution is very regional. People in some parts of the country don't really have any clue what osteopathic medicine is b/c they have either never heard of or never noticed the initials behind their physician's name.

2) Ortho is a competitive field. Period. To place into allopathic residencies, you have to be a competitive applicant & that is all dependent on your personal achievement (boards, LOR's, clinical performance). Some residency directors are still "good 'ol boys" & are not going to take a DO, but that trend will become less & less common as they are retiring & new PD's are coming up.

3) There are also many fewer osteopathic Orthopaedic surgery residency spots so that means that every year, more MD's that DO's are minted thus creating your perceived difference.

Bottomline -- Ortho is a tough field to get into for anyone. You need great board scores (USMLE included), LOR's, clinical (maybe preclinical) grades, & RESEARCH. Many of the more competitive fields now are having RESEARCH as a more important criteria b/c, IMO, it shows initiative on the part of the applicant (especially while in med school where you have 100 other things to worry about). Are some doors going to be shut to you? Sure. However, you have the opportunity to apply to DO residencies so in actuality if you are not tied to one area of the country, you may have a better shot at getting in if you apply broadly.

Hope this helps,
Kritter

Just a question I have always kinda wondered about ...
Is California a region that is less "DO friendly" because of the fact that it isn't very rural or any other factors? I always hear about different regions being more or less prone to DOs and I always wondered where California fell?

 

[Pansit]

Just a question I have always kinda wondered about ...
Is California a region that is less "DO friendly" because of the fact that it isn't very rural or any other factors? I always hear about different regions being more or less prone to DOs and I always wondered where California fell?

I know there are two DO schools in california so that is always a plus....

 

[group_theory]

The main reason you don't see a lot of DOs in ACGME orthopedic residency is due to one simple facts ... students with the grades, board scores, LORs, connections, research, etc ... often end up in AOA orthopedic residency.

Ortho is competitive, so most people end up applying to both DO and MD programs. Since the DO Match takes place one month prior to the NRMP (MD) match, good quality applicants will be taken in the DO match.

It takes a LOT of guts to skip the DO Match and go solely via the NRMP Match, since you are also competing against highly qualified MD students for the same spots (and also fighting against bias and stereotypes concerning DO students). If your overall goal is to be an orthopedic surgeon, you must have a very good reason to skip the DO programs for the MD programs (t'is better to be AOA trained in orthopedic surgery than not be an orthopedic surgeon at all)

 

[JonnyG]

Just a question I have always kinda wondered about ...
Is California a region that is less "DO friendly" because of the fact that it isn't very rural or any other factors? I always hear about different regions being more or less prone to DOs and I always wondered where California fell?

Two of the original five schools (PCOM and CCOM) have been in major cities for over a hundred years. Rural has nothgn to do with being DO friendly, it has to do with the number of DOs in an area that they gain respect. Also CA got rid of all their DOs in the 1960s (made them md) so there are les sof them then there should be. Right now Cali needs docs so it doesnt really matter.

 

[cuddlepuppy]

I agree with the first poster, osteopathic education does seem to give osteopathic students/physicians a solid background in general orthopedics. No one will deny that hours of manipulation, palpation, etc with live patients allows one to have more of an ease with orthopedic physical examinations and treatment. This was my stand for being an osteopathic applicant to allopathic residencies.

The application period can be stressful whether you apply DO and/or MD. But look at it this way, you can apply to both matches and see how many interviews you get in both. If you get a lot of DO interviews and a few MD interviews, it does in fact take a lot of guts to withdraw from the DO match to go soley MD. But if you get >10 MD interviews, you're sitting pretty and have a lot more ground to withdraw DO...it's a game.

I think plenty of DO applicants could be very competitive for MD ortho. The key is to know how competitive you are against the best of the best MD applicants. If you feel like you have a shot take a chance and throw your line out. It can cause for many sleepless nights though...

Good luck!

CP

 

[Dr JPH]

I think the competitiveness of DO Ortho programs also should be noted. These programs are strong, as are most of the osteopathic surgical programs (GS, ORtho, NS, Optho, ENT, Uro, Plastics). It seems as though the NON primary care post-graduate education is the one place the osteopathic world has managed to stay even with our allopathic counterparts.