Do Attendings need to take ACLS and PALS?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

tinkerbelle

Full Member
15+ Year Member
20+ Year Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2003
Messages
2,571
Reaction score
7
Do EM Attendings need to keep up with the ACLS, PALS, and ATLS certifications? All three of my certifications expire this year. My hospital hasn't said anything about having to retake these courses and I would assume passing the boards would mean I am competent in all 3 areas....

Members don't see this ad.
 
Do EM Attendings need to keep up with the ACLS, PALS, and ATLS certifications? All three of my certifications expire this year. My hospital hasn't said anything about having to retake these courses and I would assume passing the boards would mean I am competent in all 3 areas....

You would assume correctly; but many hospitals don't see it that way... most want at least ACLS, may let you slide on APLS or ATLS.

There are a few relatively recent threads bemoaning this insanity; if I wasn't stuck in traffic I'd hunt them down.

Check with your credentialer for your future job, and check with your PD for your current residency (I'll bet you need to be current as a resident) to find out their requirements. Ultimately, you have to do what the people signing your checks want you to do.

Cheers!
-d

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk
 
Thanks for the response! I'll e-mail my current boss and see what he thinks as well. These renewal courses are expensive and I'd prefer to save my CME money for fun conferences instead 🙂
 
Members don't see this ad :)
At my gig, you have to have all the merit badges when you start per hospital regs but knce you are boarded in EM and the badges run out, we aren't required to recert because our chief convinced them that board certification trumps useless badges
 
i've had to recert in all 3 this year. ACLS, ATLS, PALS.

So dumb.
 
Ditto at my shop - necessary to start the job, but no need to recert to keep working.


At my gig, you have to have all the merit badges when you start per hospital regs but knce you are boarded in EM and the badges run out, we aren't required to recert because our chief convinced them that board certification trumps useless badges
 
This is 100% dependent on your specific hospitals by laws. It's a vestigial remnant of the days before BC/BE EPs were commonplace, when you would have the medical staff rotate to cover the ER. One night the Internist would cover, the next night the Cardiologist, Tuesday the Dermatologist covered, then Wednesday was the Psychiatrist's turn and Thursday, Peds. It made sense to have everyone have at least a basic level of BLS and ACLS knowledge, because it was better than none.

Now fast toward 30-40 years and the question is asked: Why are we having BC/BE EPs who've had Medical School, then 6,000 hours and 3 years of residency training in resuscitation and ABEM certification including a written and oral exam , then take an 8 hour course to show he/she knows what they've spent 6,000 hours perfecting, alongside people who aren't doctors, aren't EPs and know little if anything about resuscitation?

Why require that?

VP of Medical Affairs:

"Well, uh....duh, well.....uh. I think, it's....uh. Well, because....uh, because, it makes us feel better to do things the way we've always done them....I think."

It would be exactly the same as requiring all General, Orthopedic and Neurosurgeons recertify their basic suturing skills every 3 years to keep their jobs.

Oh wait, Surgeons would never be required to do that, or allow themselves to be required to jump through such an absurd and degrading hoop. Yet, EPs march in lockstep with such absurdities.

Why?

It's critical to know the answer to this question.
 
Last edited:
This is 100% dependent on your specific hospitals by laws. It's a vestigial remnant of the days before BC/BE EPs were commonplace, when you would have the medical staff rotate to cover the ER. One night the Internist would cover, the next night the Cardiologist, Tuesday the Dermatologist covered, then Wednesday was the Psychiatrist's turn and Thursday, Peds. It made sense to have everyone have at least a basic level of BLS and ACLS knowledge, because it was better than none.

Now fast toward 30-40 years and the question is asked: Why are we having BC/BE EPs who've had Medical School, then 6,000 hours and 3 years of residency training in resuscitation and ABEM certification including a written and oral exam , then take an 8 hour course to show he/she knows what they've spent 6,000 hours perfecting, alongside people who aren't doctors, aren't EPs and know little if anything about resuscitation?

Why require that?

VP of Medical Affairs:

"Well, uh....duh, well.....uh. I think, it's....uh. Well, because....uh, because, it makes us feel better to do things the way we've always done them....I think."

It would be exactly the same as requiring all General, Orthopedic and Neurosurgeons recertify their basic suturing skills every 3 years to keep their jobs.

Oh wait, Surgeons would never be required to do that, or allow themselves to be required to jump through such an absurd and degrading hoop. Yet, EPs march in lockstep with such absurdities.

Why?

It's critical to know the answer to this question.
Compounded by the fact that most committees don't have EPs on them because in general, we just don't want to go to those kinds of things on our days off. Every meeting I go to occurs during my off time. All of the other docs there are working their usual jobs and take an hour and a half off. I'm not allowed to do that. So it just happens.
 
VP of Medical Affairs:

"Well, uh....duh, well.....uh. I think, it's....uh. Well, because....uh, because, it makes us feel better to do things the way we've always done them....I think."

That's the motto inscribed on a plaque in our main conference room.

I was told the NJ ACEP Chapter got together and made it so BC EPs in that state don't need to take those certs. Is this so?

NJ ACEP can do whatever it wants but that won't make any given hospital change its policy unless they actually got the legislature to pass something saying it can't be required. ACEP nationally has a position that it "strongly opposes the requirement of merit badges for BCEPs and that (while laudable) has NOT fixed the problem.

http://www.acep.org/Clinical---Prac...ne-as-Criteria-for-Privileging-or-Employment/

Strangely in my group we do have some political pull on Credentials, QI and at the system level. Unfortunately the leadership feels this is a fight not worth having. This is a good example of advancement of the field getting trumped by economics and politics. You don't want to put up a fight over something that an administrator will interpret as being about laziness and money. Another group will appear who will certainly say their docs will cheerfully keep their merit badges up.
 
You don't want to put up a fight over something that an administrator will interpret as being about laziness and money

Which is why, in those situations, I fully support the use of online badges. The bylaws don't usually say anything about where the badges come from.
 
Strangely in my group we do have some political pull on Credentials, QI and at the system level. Unfortunately the leadership feels this is a fight not worth having.


We used some of our good-karma chips and fought this fight last year. One of the good reasons to get at least a few of your docs involved, and on committees, is to have allies when these things come up. No one else at our hospital has ATLS. No one has PALS (no inpatient peds). We agreed that ACLS should not be mandatory for critical care, anesthesia, or cardiology attendings (that got us some allies, eh?). We agreed our new-grad young docs without board cert should have these merit badges.

AAEM has a good statement on this, which we printed out. Among other docs in all specialities, there is growing disdain for gov't / admin interference in our day-to-day operations, which you can take advantage of to fix some of these issues...

It makes me happy to fix these things 🙂
 
Top