DO chances at allopathic rad onc?

[KPMR15]

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Hi everyone. DO student that has been interested in rad onc since I started reading about it midway through my first year of osteopathic medical school. I'm a non-traditional student that entered from a law and business background. I know that there are no DO residencies in radiation oncology so my only shot at pursuing a career in this field is through the allopathic match. I know that this is a very competitive field in which to match, right up there with derm, integrated plastics, ortho, ophtho and neurosurg.

I did research during the summer after my first year, but because research opportunities were limited, and none of the MD rad onc departments I contacted would let me do research for them, I ended up doing pharm research at my home institution (although it was heme-onc related), and got a publication out of it.

Here are my stats:

Pre-clinical years: all honors
Top 3 in class

Honors so far in completed rotations -- med, peds, surg and family.

USMLE Step 1: 256/99
COMLEX Lvl 1: 710
Plan is to take USMLE step 2 at the end of August.

I know that I am probably dreaming considering that I attend a DO school, and I can count the number of current DO rad onc residents on one or maybe two hands. I looked through the NRMP match statistics and I know that only 2 or 3 students match rad onc per year maximum.

I have set up two away rotations in rad onc for this summer, both at solid programs that let DOs rotate (what rad onc program isn't solid, I mean really, they all look great). I would be happy at any rad onc program in the country, I don't have any location restrictions, etc, so I am going to apply to all 85-90 rad onc programs on ERAS. I am going to try to get some case reports done while at these two aways and maybe get a small amount of research completed at each one. Is that expectation unrealistic? Is my lack of rad onc research going to kill me? I really tried my best to get some but it's hard as a DO. I could set up a third away rotation in rad onc if you guys think it's a good idea, or expand one of them to 8 weeks from 4 perhaps.

My back-up plan is heme-onc, because I know that I want to work with cancer patients. So if rad onc isn't in the cards, my goal is a top 30 academic IM residency so that I can get a good heme-onc fellowship. Is this possible as a DO? I know I wouldn't have shots at IM at places like MGH, UCSF, Brigham, etc. but how about some of the programs that are considered excellent but are willing to take a DO? Maybe Arkansas or University of Kansas or University of Nevada? I'm clueless about ERAS and my school isn't very helpful on advice in this matter, but is it possible to apply to all 90 rad onc residencies, hopefully score 5-6 interviews (maybe?) and then apply to 60 IM programs on top of it and attend 10 or so of those interviews as well? That's a crapload of money, obviously, but I know a fourth year at my school who didn't match allopathic anesthesia this year and had to scramble, and that's my nightmare. I don't want to scramble. I don't want to sit out a match from the year if I can't get rad onc next March, because I seriously doubt my chances will improve if I'm a year removed from school. If I can't match rad onc, I'll undoubtedly be a bit disappointed, but I think I could see myself being happy as a heme/onc.

Thanks so much for any advice you guys may have.

 

[medgator]

There was a DO/PhD that matched a few years ago, but yes in general it's a tough route. Board scores and AOA may get your foot in the door for interviews, but things like your interview, LORs from well-known rad oncs at major depts and rad onc-specific research will be what seals the deal.

Don't fear the scramble. Many recent rad onc residents have had to scramble into a pre-lim position but have been able to secure a rad onc spot outside of the match for the following year.

Also for reference:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=355640
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=833857

 

[deleted4401]

You're doing everything you can. Give it a go. Try again for more research opportunities, especially during your rotations. I think you'll get a spot.
S

 

[Silent Cool]

Hi everyone. DO student that has been interested in rad onc since I started reading about it midway through my first year of osteopathic medical school. I'm a non-traditional student that entered from a law and business background. I know that there are no DO residencies in radiation oncology so my only shot at pursuing a career in this field is through the allopathic match. I know that this is a very competitive field in which to match, right up there with derm, integrated plastics, ortho, ophtho and neurosurg.

I did research during the summer after my first year, but because research opportunities were limited, and none of the MD rad onc departments I contacted would let me do research for them, I ended up doing pharm research at my home institution (although it was heme-onc related), and got a publication out of it.

Here are my stats:

Pre-clinical years: all honors
Top 3 in class

Honors so far in completed rotations -- med, peds, surg and family.

USMLE Step 1: 256/99
COMLEX Lvl 1: 710
Plan is to take USMLE step 2 at the end of August.

I know that I am probably dreaming considering that I attend a DO school, and I can count the number of current DO rad onc residents on one or maybe two hands. I looked through the NRMP match statistics and I know that only 2 or 3 students match rad onc per year maximum.

I have set up two away rotations in rad onc for this summer, both at solid programs that let DOs rotate (what rad onc program isn't solid, I mean really, they all look great). I would be happy at any rad onc program in the country, I don't have any location restrictions, etc, so I am going to apply to all 85-90 rad onc programs on ERAS. I am going to try to get some case reports done while at these two aways and maybe get a small amount of research completed at each one. Is that expectation unrealistic? Is my lack of rad onc research going to kill me? I really tried my best to get some but it's hard as a DO. I could set up a third away rotation in rad onc if you guys think it's a good idea, or expand one of them to 8 weeks from 4 perhaps.

My back-up plan is heme-onc, because I know that I want to work with cancer patients. So if rad onc isn't in the cards, my goal is a top 30 academic IM residency so that I can get a good heme-onc fellowship. Is this possible as a DO? I know I wouldn't have shots at IM at places like MGH, UCSF, Brigham, etc. but how about some of the programs that are considered excellent but are willing to take a DO? Maybe Arkansas or University of Kansas or University of Nevada? I'm clueless about ERAS and my school isn't very helpful on advice in this matter, but is it possible to apply to all 90 rad onc residencies, hopefully score 5-6 interviews (maybe?) and then apply to 60 IM programs on top of it and attend 10 or so of those interviews as well? That's a crapload of money, obviously, but I know a fourth year at my school who didn't match allopathic anesthesia this year and had to scramble, and that's my nightmare. I don't want to scramble. I don't want to sit out a match from the year if I can't get rad onc next March, because I seriously doubt my chances will improve if I'm a year removed from school. If I can't match rad onc, I'll undoubtedly be a bit disappointed, but I think I could see myself being happy as a heme/onc.

Thanks so much for any advice you guys may have.

There is a person at Kaiser in Los Angeles who is a DO in Rad-Onc. She/he went to Western. Name is Hanako Farol. Send her/him an email maybe?

http://residency.kp.org/scal/residency/radiationoncology/residents.html

good luck.

 

[Silent Cool]

There is a person at Kaiser in Los Angeles who is a DO in Rad-Onc. She/he went to Western. Name is Hanako Farol. Send her/him an email maybe?

http://residency.kp.org/scal/residency/radiationoncology/residents.html

good luck.

also check this out:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/archive/index.php/t-42095.html

 

[Gfunk6]

also check this out:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/archive/index.php/t-42095.html

A small caveat; the quoted thread is a decade old. The process has certainly become more competitive since then.

 

[Radbio22]

You have great stats, however having just gone through the match, it is ridiculously competitive. Everyone I met was just top notch in every way. I am not, however trying to dissuade you because I think you have to go for what you feel is right, especially with career choice.

From speaking with candidates who had a tough time, or did not match, one of the recurring themes was the absence of, or paucity of radonc research. I know some MD, PhDs who had good stats and no radonc research who received few interviews 3-6. So, I think it is going to be very important for you to get some quality radonc research done, which might require that you take a year or two off and do research with a mentor who has proven success with publications. If you want to go for it without taking time off, I would extend one of your externships into a longer period and try to turn it into more of a research rotation. I don't think it is very realistic to expect to get any type of significant research work done in 4 weeks, even case studies.

Best of luck

 

[bix]

I do know of some DOs who have matched in Rad Onc and your grades/board scores are good. Just need to work on some research during your aways. Feel free to pm me if you want more info.

 

[iradi8u]

Tom Merchant at St Jude is a D.O/PhD. Peter Grimm at Seattle Prostate is a D.O. Both very big names in the field. Is there any way you could do an away rotation with either of them for a LOR?

 

[Sheldor]

Its tough because there is so little data out there to look at, but if you look at the 2011 Charting Outcomes, you can see that 10/30 independent applicants matched which includes: MDs reapplying, IMGs and DOs I believe. So clearly at least some of this group matched, but they don't further break down who is who in that independents section.

Keep up the good work though, it certainly seems that as far as a DOs chances go, your chances will be as good as it gets!

 

[suttons law]

Anyones (MD or DO) best bet is to try to make a connection on an away rotation or at your home program. Unless your at a top 20 university you have to distinguish yourself to get in. Always hope for the best but also try to be a realist. Several people with 240-250's step one scores didn't get in this year. But some people who did away rotations were able to develop bonds and ultimately match. In my opinion the best chance for anyone is to do an away rotation at a place you think you could get accepted to. Overall, it's a good thing that 240-260 board scores and a couple of publications has become the average Rad Onc applicant. Make a great impression on your away rotation and make sure the away rotation is in your "wheelhouse".

 

[deleted4401]

I think the point is that there is no "home program" for DO applicants - every program is MD, so since the most important thing is to succeed at your program, DO applicants are at a significant disadvantage, and the question is how to distinguish yourself in other ways.

 

[chicago5950]

We had a guy at KYCOM (Pikeville D.O) match into Radiation Oncology last year (or the year before? I can't remember)-- it's definitely possible.

 

[a runner]

Its tough because there is so little data out there to look at, but if you look at the 2011 Charting Outcomes, you can see that 10/30 independent applicants matched which includes: MDs reapplying, IMGs and DOs I believe. So clearly at least some of this group matched, but they don't further break down who is who in that independents section.

Keep up the good work though, it certainly seems that as far as a DOs chances go, your chances will be as good as it gets!

Most of those independent applicants are not DOs. The best way I've been able to approximate the number of DO applicants in a particular ACGME specialty each year is by looking at the USMLE numbers under Independent Applicants. Charting Outcomes states that most of the "score not available" people are DO applicants because DO's don't get their USMLE score reported to NRMP for whatever reason.

If you look at 2011, there are 2 independent applicants with a USMLE score not available, with one of them matching. If you look at the 2011 Main Residency Match statistics, there is one DO that matched to rad onc, so everything jives. Also, this tendency holds approximately true for other specialties I've looked at. Unfortunately, Charting Outcomes only comes out every 2 years, and most years there isn't a big enough sample size of DO's (ie. only 2 applied rad onc in 2011) to get a true idea of your chances. The one year where 5 DOs matched (2010) there is no Charting Outcomes so we don't know how many DOs had to apply to achieve those 5 matches, but I can't imagine many more applicants than 5 (maybe 6-8 applicants total), since a usual year sees only 2-4 applicants. 2009 was 1 out of 2 DO applicants matching as well. 2013 saw 2 DO matches, so we'll find out how many DO applicants there were when 2013 Charting Outcomes comes out. I'd guess 3-4. It seems the match rate for DO rad onc applicants over the past 5 years is in the range of 50-75%.

 

[a runner]

Also, it's good to look at the Program Director Survey results. In 2012, out of the 43 programs responding, 27 (63%) said they interview and/or rank DO applicants, so almost 2/3 of programs will consider a DO applicant, and approximately 1/3 of programs will not consider a DO applicant. Certainly could be a lot worse... program directors in other specialties that will consider interviewing DOs: ENT is 28%, ortho 30%, derm 31%, neurosurg 38%, and plastics 50%. I would say DOs wanting to match into rad onc is a realistic goal.

 

[thesauce]

Also, it's good to look at the Program Director Survey results. In 2012, out of the 43 programs responding, 27 (63%) said they interview and/or rank DO applicants, so almost 2/3 of programs will consider a DO applicant, and approximately 1/3 of programs will not consider a DO applicant. Certainly could be a lot worse... program directors in other specialties that will consider interviewing DOs: ENT is 28%, ortho 30%, derm 31%, neurosurg 38%, and plastics 50%. I would say DOs wanting to match into rad onc is a realistic goal.

I'm not sure this can really be taken at face value. Although anonymous, I doubt PDs would want to give the impression that their specialty descriminates against DOs. There are also compounding factors like the fact that few (if any) DO schools have home programs, which independently makes matching difficult.

The real proof is in the hard data: how many DOs are getting into radonc? Not many. And it's just as bad for several of the other specialties you mentioned, regardless of how the PDs theoretically feel about them as candidates.

 

[cdf95cro]

A current resident at San Antonio has a DO, so it is possible. You just have to work harder at getting past the initial screen. IMHO, if you get to an interview I think it comes down to interaction w the faculty more than where you went to med school.

 

[thesauce]

A current resident at San Antonio has a DO, so it is possible. You just have to work harder at getting past the initial screen. IMHO, if you get to an interview I think it comes down to interaction w the faculty more than where you went to med school.

Not sure if this was directed at OP, but he probably would have matched by now since he made that post as a 3rd year. It would be great if he could come back and give us an update.