DO Competitiveness Rising Real Rapidly?

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DocInProgress

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Is it just me or do you guys also think that the competitveness of DO schools are rising really fast? I mean, it seems like the average matriculant has the same stats as MD matriculants from ~2 years ago (27, 3.5). The average for DO schools were 3.3, 24 about 2 years ago, wasn't it?
 
Is it just me or do you guys also think that the competitveness of DO schools are rising really fast? I mean, it seems like the average matriculant has the same stats as MD matriculants from ~2 years ago (27, 3.5). The average for DO schools were 3.3, 24 about 2 years ago, wasn't it?

All medical schools in general are rising in competitiveness, and DO schools are no exception...its getting pretty normal for DO schools to be above 3.5 in gpa and numerous DO schools are in the 27-28 MCAT range...pretty good to me.
 
Was "(27, 3.5)" really the MD stats from two years ago?
 
so, "no", is the answer to your question Jpc984
 
Thanks jpc!!!
 
it moves in cycles. some years have more applicants than others, just cycles.......just like everything else in life.
 
it moves in cycles. some years have more applicants than others, just cycles.......just like everything else in life.

True but Id venture to say that it is going to keep increasing for the future incoming classes. Albeit some years more so than others, but in general I expect an increase in stats for ALL med schools.
 
as newer schools open, existing schools will become more and more selective. this is a positive trend... so as long as we don't get to canadian levels of competitiveness. friends of mine in ontario speak of gnarly adcoms and insane MCAT/GPA combos. eek.
 
I heard that if you are out of province in Canada to receive an interview at most schools you need a strict minimum of 3.7 / 33.
 
Last year was a crazy year, a huge surge in the number of applicants to both allopathic and osteopathic. This year will probably be even bigger. The competition is indeed getting stiffer.

From American Medical News,

Growing awareness of an impending physician shortage is partially behind an all-time high in medical school interest, experts say. So is an upcoming generation of college graduates with a strong sense of altruism, a growing population and a cyclical upswing tied to a softer economy.

Allopathic medical schools saw 31,946 first-time applicants for the 2007-08 academic year, according to the Assn. of American Medical Colleges. It reflects an 8% increase over 2006-07.

The American Assn. of Colleges of Osteopathic Medicine also saw its applicant pool reach a record level for the 2007-08 academic year, with 11,500 candidates.

Nationally, the allopathic 2007-08 class reached nearly 17,800 students, a 2.3% increase from last year. Osteopathic schools saw the size of first-year classes grow 11.8% to 4,300, as new schools opened in Arizona, New York and Tennessee.

Allopathic applicants posted the highest mean Medical College Admission Test score to date: 28 out of 45 points. That's up from 27.6 a year ago. Grade-point averages were higher, too -- a mean 3.5 on a 4.0 scale. The average was 3.4 last year. Osteopathic applicants for 2007-08 also had stronger scores on those measures. They had a mean 25.3 MCAT and 3.5 GPA, compared with a 24.5 MCAT score and 3.4 grade-point average last year.

Here's a link to the original article, publish in Nov 5th, 2007 of Amednews.com:
Record number vied for 2007-08 medical school slots



bth
 
Last year was a crazy year, a huge surge in the number of applicants to both allopathic and osteopathic. This year will probably be even bigger. The competition is indeed getting stiffer.

From American Medical News,



Here's a link to the original article, publish in Nov 5th, 2007 of Amednews.com:
Record number vied for 2007-08 medical school slots



bth

I like you bth7; you are always full of useful information!👍
 
True but Id venture to say that it is going to keep increasing for the future incoming classes. Albeit some years more so than others, but in general I expect an increase in stats for ALL med schools.

um ok....I'll say it again, everything moves in cycles, nothing is constant, there will be applicant up years and there will be down years. I welcome a surge because when things surge up, they will eventually surge down.

Again, everything moves in cycles......besides their building new schools like crazy.

We going to need an even bigger surge of applicants and seats to deal with the 80,000,000 babyboomers that are retiring. If we don't have more seats, then we're going to have a physician shortage.

We need more applicants, more seats, and more docs.
 
I think we just need more seats and teaching docs. Out of the 11 or so thousand that apply, I would like to think that at least half, if not 3/4s, of them would make good doctors. I could be wrong but I like to believe that most of us who are applying are doing it for the right reasons.
 
With the rise of schools and seats, there needs to be an increase of residencies...
 
With the rise of schools and seats, there needs to be an increase of residencies...

I agree. I think this might be the bigger issue. Medical schools seem to be raising their class size, but residency slots are staying relatively constant. I suppose it will push out more FMGs from US residencies. Luckily, DOs have their own residency programs 👍
 
Not enough of them unfortunately, especially in the specialties.

What? There are many residencies mostly of course in primary care fields, that go unfilled every year.
 
I really think it has mostly to do with medical TV shows...

Everyone wants to be the next "Dr. Troy" (there is even a thread from a pre-med right now about if he/she can make it as a plastic surg as a DO...hahahah), or have a residency life similar to Dr. Gray

IMO...Unless they stop producing those medical tv shows, don't expect the so called "cycles" to ever calm down....

People lose track of themselves, they watch a TV show and think "omg I can have a life JUST like that".... Maybe they can or maybe they can't, what do I know, I am not an actor nor a Doctor but I can guess that someone's real life turnout is going to be NOTHING like whats shown on TV
 
I really think it has mostly to do with medical TV shows...

Everyone wants to be the next "Dr. Troy" (there is even a thread from a pre-med right now about if he/she can make it as a plastic surg as a DO...hahahah), or have a residency life similar to Dr. Gray

IMO...Unless they stop producing those medical tv shows, don't expect the so called "cycles" to ever calm down....

People lose track of themselves, they watch a TV show and think "omg I can have a life JUST like that".... Maybe they can or maybe they can't, what do I know, I am not an actor nor a Doctor but I can guess that someone's real life turnout is going to be NOTHING like whats shown on TV

It's Dr. Grey, sir. Unless you are talking about the great medical doctor, Dr. Gray, of esteemed anatomical dissestion fame. 😛
 
I really think it has mostly to do with medical TV shows...

Everyone wants to be the next "Dr. Troy" (there is even a thread from a pre-med right now about if he/she can make it as a plastic surg as a DO...hahahah), or have a residency life similar to Dr. Gray

IMO...Unless they stop producing those medical tv shows, don't expect the so called "cycles" to ever calm down....

People lose track of themselves, they watch a TV show and think "omg I can have a life JUST like that".... Maybe they can or maybe they can't, what do I know, I am not an actor nor a Doctor but I can guess that someone's real life turnout is going to be NOTHING like whats shown on TV

If you aren't going into medicine to become a godless plastic surgeon who only loves himself and disposes women like trash ... don't bother!

hahahahah JUST KIDDING (especially about the women comment😀):laugh: I do love Nip/Tuck though ... just a good show!!
 
I really think it has mostly to do with medical TV shows...

Everyone wants to be the next "Dr. Troy" (there is even a thread from a pre-med right now about if he/she can make it as a plastic surg as a DO...hahahah), or have a residency life similar to Dr. Gray

IMO...Unless they stop producing those medical tv shows, don't expect the so called "cycles" to ever calm down....

People lose track of themselves, they watch a TV show and think "omg I can have a life JUST like that".... Maybe they can or maybe they can't, what do I know, I am not an actor nor a Doctor but I can guess that someone's real life turnout is going to be NOTHING like whats shown on TV

Medical dramas have been a huge success since General Hospital 4 decades ago. I don't even have to look at the applicant over the past 15 years to tell you of the ups and downs since the show ER in the early 1990s!

There are other factors of influence than TV. If a national healthcare is implemented in the next 5 years and physician incomes fall some 30%-40% then I promise there will be a significant drop in applicants. Yes this is a runon sentence, no i don't care.



This is yet invalid concern of a paranoid premed.
 
besides, there are other things that are more of a concern or more pressing.

Pretty soon there will be a turf battle over primary care. Allied health is expanding and encroaching onto doc turf.....and the allied health salaries are getting very close to primary care doc pay.

in fact, there are numerous instances where allied health clearly outpays...

so what if there are more applicants, what is your point?
 
Medical dramas have been a huge success since General Hospital 4 decades ago. I don't even have to look at the applicant over the past 15 years to tell you of the ups and downs since the show ER in the early 1990s!

There are other factors of influence than TV. If a national healthcare is implemented in the next 5 years and physician incomes fall some 30%-40% then I promise there will be a significant drop in applicants. Yes this is a runon sentence, no i don't care.
 
its always getting more competitive, that is the nature of the beast. the best candidates (usually) get into the spots and become the best doctors. work hard and you probably wont have to worry about getting in. residency is another matter all together. good luck.
 
Wait a minute - you mean I can't act like Dr. Gregory House in a hospital? You mean I might get in trouble if I have a Vicodin habit, constantly insult and harass patients and fellow doctors, disregard instructions from a superior, break all workplace policies, speak exclusively in sexual innuendo when dealing with females, break into patients houses, consistently ignore their wishes and subject them to unproven and untried methods just to prove a hunch?


I want my post-bac money back. 😡

Tee Hee 😀😀😀
 
Is it just me or do you guys also think that the competitveness of DO schools are rising really fast? I mean, it seems like the average matriculant has the same stats as MD matriculants from ~2 years ago (27, 3.5). The average for DO schools were 3.3, 24 about 2 years ago, wasn't it?

All medical schools in general are rising in competitiveness, and DO schools are no exception...its getting pretty normal for DO schools to be above 3.5 in gpa and numerous DO schools are in the 27-28 MCAT range...pretty good to me.

Last year was a crazy year, a huge surge in the number of applicants to both allopathic and osteopathic. This year will probably be even bigger. The competition is indeed getting stiffer.

To comment on the OP, I agree with others who said it's ALL getting more competitive. I think it's a reflection on people's perception of the economy. If the US economy continues to tank--I hate to be a harbinger of bad news--but good luck getting into med school with anything less than a 4.2 GPA and 45T MCATs.
 
[q
There are other factors of influence than TV. If a national healthcare is implemented in the next 5 years and physician incomes fall some 30%-40% then I promise there will be a significant drop in applicants. Yes this is a runon sentence, no i don't care.[/quote]

Is the difference in pay from US docs and docs from countries with this, or similar, healthcare that much different?
 
To comment on the OP, I agree with others who said it's ALL getting more competitive. I think it's a reflection on people's perception of the economy. If the US economy continues to tank--I hate to be a harbinger of bad news--but good luck getting into med school with anything less than a 4.2 GPA and 45T MCATs.

I'd rather sit on the sidelines than be enrolled in med school right now...I like where I am right now.

1. RVU's monetary success will encourage many more Osteopathic schools. Osteopathy could go the way of pharmacy schools, too many, over population. For Profit medical schools?

2. National Healthcare after Hillary is elected, will threaten physician incomes and will certainly grant allied health far more turf in primary care.

3. Again, for the 10th time...the economy, med school applicants, everything....HAS CYCLES.
 
If a national healthcare is implemented in the next 5 years and physician incomes fall some 30%-40%
30-40% is pushing it. After looking through all this nauesiating financial aid information I decided to do some research on this... In my opinion, although no one really know what exactly hilary's plan is (it will just be great for everyone), it is unlikely to cut physician's RELATIVE income at all. However, it will affect everyone's income significantly by increasing income tax ~10%. So a Dr. making 200k will effectively make 180k. The biggest issue universal healthcare poises to us future dr's is not the salary but the beauracracy. God I hope Rudy can pull it off. Great book if anyone is looking for something to read before med school is The Cure: How Capitalism Can Save American Healthcare
 
You guys are forgetting that there are 28 new medical schools either opened or planned the next 5 years. About 70% of those are DO programs.

Once all these new schools come online in the next 5 years or so, the competitiveness will absolutely plummet. You are talking about roughly 4000 new med school slots.

Thats not even counting the existing medical schools which are expanding their class sizes every year.
 
30-40% is pushing it. After looking through all this nauesiating financial aid information I decided to do some research on this... In my opinion, although no one really know what exactly hilary's plan is (it will just be great for everyone), it is unlikely to cut physician's RELATIVE income at all. However, it will affect everyone's income significantly by increasing income tax ~10%. So a Dr. making 200k will effectively make 180k. The biggest issue universal healthcare poises to us future dr's is not the salary but the beauracracy. God I hope Rudy can pull it off. Great book if anyone is looking for something to read before med school is The Cure: How Capitalism Can Save American Healthcare

Yeah, your right now that I'm looking at some info....I agree with you that we don't know what Hillary's plan will look like

I'll take a look at that book.....good post, thanks.👍
 
Not to hijack the thread, but does anyone have any information on Hillary's proposed plan?

I can't find a dang thing on it!!!

Is it me or do all these candidates have some plan for national health?
 
True but Id venture to say that it is going to keep increasing for the future incoming classes. Albeit some years more so than others, but in general I expect an increase in stats for ALL med schools.

This can't go on indefinitely. It has a breaking point. I highly doubt the average GPA and MCAT in 10 years is going to be 3.85 and 35 S.
 
Not to hijack the thread, but does anyone have any information on Hillary's proposed plan?

I can't find a dang thing on it!!!

Is it me or do all these candidates have some plan for national health?

that's because it doesn't exist.
 
Not to hijack the thread, but does anyone have any information on Hillary's proposed plan?

I can't find a dang thing on it!!!

Is it me or do all these candidates have some plan for national health?

If you have the time there is an interesting site that has quite a bit of information about a single payer health system and is supported by a large number of physicians.

www.pnhp.org -- Physicians for a national health plan. It has some interesting articles about Hillary Clinton's supposed plan of Action. It also explains the benefits of a single payer health care system
 
If you have the time there is an interesting site that has quite a bit of information about a single payer health system and is supported by a large number of physicians.

www.pnhp.org -- Physicians for a national health plan. It has some interesting articles about Hillary Clinton's supposed plan of Action. It also explains the benefits of a single payer health care system

cool...I could use an education in this area. 👍

Also, you can google "panda md" who has some pretty opinionated stance, but he's thought provoking.
 
Once all these new schools come online in the next 5 years or so, the competitiveness will absolutely plummet. You are talking about roughly 4000 new med school slots.....

It's not quite as imple as that. The number of osteopathic schools has increased a great bit during the last 5 years, yet the average MCAT and GPA have actually increased. Why? More and more top college graduates are choosing medicine as a profession again.

Remember that the Osteopathic 1996 and 1997 entering classes had nearly 11,000 applicants, but by 2001 that number had shrunk to less than 7,000. Many of the brightest college prospects of that era were lured in by the dotcom boom and chose not to pursue medicine. Fast forward to the entering class of 2007 where a record number of 11,455 applicants filled out the AACOMAS application. The thing now, though is that not only are you getting a lot of new college graduates attracted to medince again, but you are also getting a lot of those people who chose another profession ten years ago-- and osteopathic schools are grabbing those guys and gals left and right. There are a lot of really smart folks out there who are coming back to medicine again.
 
why? by the time its my time to apply things will be much worse....
 
For DOs or just for medicine in general?


Medicine general I guess. I plan on applying to both DO and MD. I might change my mind I am just a freshmen but at this point my top choice is MSUCOM.
 
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