Do DPTs call themselves "Dr.?"

[PublicHealth]

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If so, wouldn't this confuse patients? Is there a formal way to introduce yourself if you're a DPT? Something like, "Hi, I'm Dr. Smith, a physical therapist here at [INSERT NAME] hospital."

 

[DOctorJay]

IMHO they have earned the right to call themselves "doctor." However, this will definitely confuse patients who will now think you go to medical school to get into physical therapy. People already confuse us for doctors so this will add to the confusion. None of the DPTs at my hospital ask their patients to call them "doctor." We all go by first name which makes it easier to communicate on a level field with our patients.

-J

 

[DocWagner]

It goes along the same unspoken code as PharmD's, and JD's not calling themselves "Dr." despite clinical degree.
DOCJay, there will be a time, not so far from now when you will cringe at hearing your name..."Dr.Jay this patient has a temp of 103 can we give tylenol, Dr. Jay that patient won't stop vomitting, Dr. Jay this patient hasn't had a bowel movement/won't stop having bowel movments."
Now THAT's what I call being a Dr.!

 

[freddydpt]

I might be in the minority on this, but if I'm treating a patient, he or she doesn't have to call me doctor (although it depends on the setting). However, in the same respect of having a clinical docotorate, if I call a physician or chiropractor or podiatrist "doctor (name)" then I expect to be addressed with the same clinical respect. If they ask to be called by their first name, than I will as well. It's not an ego thing as much as a respect thing. DPT's are earning their clinical doctoral degree to treat patients as Doctor of Physical Therapy much like Doctors of Podiatry or Doctors of Chiropractic or Doctors of Optometry. The examination and treatment process is much like a physicians. Patients are getting care for the neuromusculoskeletal and/or cardipulmonary systems from an advanced and specialized clinician.

With that said, I'm not sure if it would be appropriate to introduce myself "Hi I'm Dr. Freddy. I'm here to walk you to the bathroom and back to bed today." On the other hand, if it comes to a low back patient, I can manage low back pain with manual therapy, therapeutic exercise, modalities, and refer to an MD for prescription. In that sense, if a patient wants to think of me as their doctor, I'm quite alright with that. I'll be the one primarily treating them and building a relationship for the patient to learn to self-manage. And if it helps them to thinik that the "doctor" told them to do such and such exercise, then I'll gladly use the title.

I hope that makes sense and isn't too scattered of a thought.

 

[SashaDPT]

I agree with Freddy 100%. As far as the patient care is concerned, I would preffer patient addressing me by my first name. But in the outpatient setting, the patient will know that his doctor is a physical therapist if he is working on balance issues, or his doctor is a podiatrist if he has foot or ankle trauma. The broblem, however, is that there is such a large separation between therapists themselves. Working with a couple of other colleagues, I note a certain stigma attached to my DPT. It is almost if other therapist go out of their way to belittle the academic achievement of going through graduate school, especially the older ones who have been practicing for a while. Still, when presenting a research topic or addressing other healthcare professional, it is appropriate to be called what your academic degree entitles you to.

PS PharmD and JD are both non-primary care specialties.

 

[Freeeedom!]

PS: A physical therapist is also a non primary care specialty...so whats your point? Furthermore, not too many physicians call a DC "Dr."

 

[PublicHealth]

PS: A physical therapist is also a non primary care specialty...so whats your point? Furthermore, not too many physicians call a DC "Dr."

Yeah, but DCs sure like to use the title! Look at pretty much any add for a chiropractic office. I guarantee you that more than 90% use the title "Dr." and leave out the "DC."

 

[SashaDPT]

The reality is not using a term loosly but using it in a correct connotation. A chiropractor went through 4 years of graduate school and has earned the right to call himself a Dr. Now, a chiropractor who falsely practices as a physician in deeply wrong and is acting unethically. As far as a Doctor is concerned, I called most of my professors with a PhD Dr.?s and call my podiatrist Dr., and will continue to do so. One must not mistake a professional title with occupational role.

PS I know PT is not primary care, I used it in a context of having a primary interaction with a patients as far as evaluating, providing treatment and discharging the patient.

 

[DOctorJay]

Not only will some of the DC's use "doctor" but they'll actually call themselves physicians. Now that is shady.

-J

 

[PublicHealth]

Not only will some of the DC's use "doctor" but they'll actually call themselves physicians. Now that is shady.

-J

It depends on the state. In some states, DCs are allowed by law to call themselves "chiropractors" or "chiropractic physicians." I agree that this can be misleading for patients, but imagine that DCs inform their patients about the types of clinical services they may provide.

 

[DOctorJay]

I hear what you're saying PH, here is what Stedman says:

physician (fi-zishn)

1. A doctor; a person who has been educated, trained, and licensed to practice the art and science of medicine.
2. A practitioner of medicine, as contrasted with a surgeon.

-J

 

[BackTalk]

Furthermore, not too many physicians call a DC "Dr."

Most actually do. When I refer patients to them, they will send their reports to me and always address me as "doctor" on paper, in person and on the phone. It is a matter of professional courtesy.

Yeah, but DCs sure like to use the title! Look at pretty much any add for a chiropractic office. I guarantee you that more than 90% use the title "Dr." and leave out the "DC."

As doctors we are allowed to use the term. I always put DC after my name so people know what type of doctor I am. I notice (since there are so many different doctors out there) MD's will also do the same. Legally you have to distinguish what type of doctor you are (at least in Illinois it's that way). Most chiropractors ad's are littered with chiropractic, so most people will recognize the guy is a chiropractor.

Not only will some of the DC's use "doctor" but they'll actually call themselves physicians. Now that is shady.

It is only shady if the chiropractor implies that he is a medical physician. Read PublicHealth's post.

 

[PublicHealth]

I hear what you're saying PH, here is what Stedman says:

physician (fi-zishn)

1. A doctor; a person who has been educated, trained, and licensed to practice the art and science of medicine.
2. A practitioner of medicine, as contrasted with a surgeon.

-J

When DCs seek licensure, they care about how the statutes of the State Licensing Board define them, not how Stedman defines them. How they describe themselves -- "chiropractor" or "chiropractic physician" -- is up to them, so long as this title is in accordance with the statutes of the State Licensing Board.

http://www.chiropractic.org/legislation/state_statutes.htm

 

[Freeeedom!]

One must remember, most often it is not the State Medical Licensing board defining and regulating chiropractic, but rather the State Chiropractic Licensing Board. They can make any rule they want...define practice how they like until it goes directly against standards...that is why in many states,a chiropractor is ALLOWED to perform pelvic/gynecological exams etc.

 

[BackTalk]

One must remember, most often it is not the State Medical Licensing board defining and regulating chiropractic, but rather the State Chiropractic Licensing Board. They can make any rule they want...define practice how they like until it goes directly against standards...that is why in many states,a chiropractor is ALLOWED to perform pelvic/gynecological exams etc.y Board

This is true in some states. In Illinois it is actually the State Medical Licensing board that polices chiropractors. Oddly enough, chiropractors have the largest scope of practice in Illinois despite the board being 5 MD's, 1 DO and 1DC.

 

[Freeeedom!]

Do you mean widest scope of all states regarding DC's?

I think it is a good idea to prevent DC's from performing anything outside the scope of community standards of practice. Likewise, preventing a MD from providing chiropractic services without appropriate training as per community standards.

 

[BackTalk]

I think that Illinois has the largest scope of practice compared to any other state other than Oregon which may have the use of limited prescription medication.

I agree with you. There is no need for us to be doing pelvic exams 😱 and stuff like that. The law may allow it but it is outside the standard of practice.

You know I think most MD and DO could give a crap about chiropractic or the use of manipulative medicine. All of the ones I know are too damn busy treating sick patients to be screwing around trying to learn how to do spinal manipulation. They have more important things on their mind.

 

[freddydpt]

Most people don't know this but PT's have a Women's Health scope of practice. Most PT's do not, but pelvic exam is part of continuing education in PT, for incontinence training. We had a few lectures on it during my education but never a lab. It is a growing practice area and I've heard it's VERY effective.

 

[Freeeedom!]

Freddy, when you enter into medical school...you will see just how little you learned about pelvic exams...and how dangerous it could be for lesser trained individuals.

Oregon has allowed sharp debridement in the laws, but no one practices that way (re: DC's), I don't think they have any prescriptive rights.

 

[BackTalk]

We had a few courses in OBGYN, but no hands on experience. Then again, I did get plenty of training on Saturday nights. 😀

 

[freddydpt]

Freddy, when you enter into medical school...you will see just how little you learned about pelvic exams...and how dangerous it could be for lesser trained individuals.

Oregon has allowed sharp debridement in the laws, but no one practices that way (re: DC's), I don't think they have any prescriptive rights.

Oh believe me I know my limits. I definitely have no examination skills in that region... we simply learned about the branch of PT that exists. I never intend to make that a practice area of mine... never... ever... EVER! I'm actually dreading my OB/GYN rotation... maybe not dreading but definitely not looking forward to it.

 

[DOctorJay]

My education sounds similar to Freddy's. We were informed about this area from a therapist who is a women's health PT and she taught us a lot about it but again we had no lab/hands on experience. Therefore, we were told that of course this was out of our scope of practice until we took some continuing education and actually had the practical skills for this. Pelvic floor musculature is receptive to the type of treatment PTs provide and can help with many problems associated with incontinence and after childbirth just to name a few.

-J

 

[SashaDPT]

I think the major point of the topic is one has to do what one is comfortable with. I do not expect my GP to be performing a open heart operation. Same goes for a chiropractor prescribing antidepresents. But if one has sufficient enough training and experience, the road is open as long as the patient is not at risk.

And as far as Dr. or not Dr., your title allowes you to call yourself such. Being a doctor of physical therapy means only that I mastered the art of physical therapy at a doctorate level. Medicine is practice, regardless of what type you practice.

 

[BMW19]

the reason DC's are taught and allowed to do pelvic exams and minor surgery in certain states is not just an arbitrary law. In some states Ex. Oregon, there may not be a physician for 100 miles and a chiropractor may be the only primary care practitioner in that span. Obviously you don't want a DC delivering your baby or suturing, but if it is the choice between that and some guy who let you into his house you would choose the former!

BMW-

 

[DocWagner]

First, a chiropractor is not a primary care physician and no woman in their right mind would allow a DC to perform a pelvic exam and no DC in their right mind would do it...can you spell p.o.t.e.n.t.i.a.l. l.a.w.s.u.i.t. it simply is not the standard of care...regardless of your comfort level. Example, in my state PT's do not do sharp debridement (despite what I had learned when i was in PT school), it is slowly getting phased out for wound care nurses. That is slowly becoming the standard of care...regardless of the ratio of wound care nurses to PT's.

 

[Skialta]

I am with you on that one DocWagner, since when are Chiropracters primary care physicians? Although, I have run across several patients who have seemed to think that this is the case.

 

[BackTalk]

I agree too. We (chiropractors) are our own specialty. Like an orthopedist, he or she is a specialist and doesn't deal with primary care. Family practice or internal med, now those are your primary docs.

 

[DOctorJay]

An orthopedist can perform any tests/procedures/treat/prescribe as a primary care doc can. A chiropractor cannot, therefore DCs are neither primary care nor specialty, they are alternative.

-J

 

[freddydpt]

An orthopedist can perform any tests/procedures/treat/prescribe as a primary care doc can. A chiropractor cannot, therefore DCs are neither primary care nor specialty, they are alternative.

-J

What procedures are restricted for chiropractors?

 

[DOctorJay]

Procedures I would allow my GP to do and not a chiropractor (nothing against the chiropractor)

1. suturing a small lac that wasn't emergent but did require stitches
2. removing said stitches
3. lancing a skin tag
4. drawing blood for testing
5. etc, etc

now you may say an orthopedist wouldn't do these either BUT the orthopod would at least be qualified and have experience in these procedures. the chiro would not to my knowledge have experience to perform the procedures.

-J

 

[BackTalk]

An orthopedist can perform any tests/procedures/treat/prescribe as a primary care doc can.

This is true but my point was that orthopedists don?t do primary care in the sense that a family or internal med doc would. They treat orthopedic problems. They don?t mess with treating anything other. I worked with a very well respected orthopedic surgeon and he didn?t practice ?primary care?. Outside of orthopedics he didn?t have a clue.

A chiropractor cannot, therefore DCs are neither primary care nor specialty, they are alternative.

What ?tests/procedures/treat/prescribe? are you talking about? Chiropractic is an alternative or rather Complimentary Alternative Medicine or CAM. But also, chiropractors are specialists with concern to the NMS system.

 

[BackTalk]

Procedures I would allow my GP to do and not a chiropractor (nothing against the chiropractor)

1. suturing a small lac that wasn't emergent but did require stitches
2. removing said stitches
3. lancing a skin tag
4. drawing blood for testing
5. etc, etc

now you may say an orthopedist wouldn't do these either BUT the orthopod would at least be qualified and have experience in these procedures. the chiro would not to my knowledge have experience to perform the procedures.

Ok thanks for clarifying. #1 you are correct as it is not within our scope of practice to do small or large surgical procedures. #2 since we don?t do #1 we also wouldn?t do #2. #3 we wouldn?t probably do that either. #4 Yes, we are licensed and trained to draw blood for testing. Some DC?s do this in house but I haven?t got the time for that and write an order to the local lab. #5 define etc etc.

In Oregon I do believe DC is license to do #1 and #2. As far a ?lancing a skin tag? I?m not sure what that is. You have a valid point concerning the orthopedist, as they are a fully trained MD?s. Again my point was it isn?t the norm for them to do those procedures or function as primary care.

 

[DOctorJay]

interesting, i didn't realize chiros could draw blood. you're absolutely right that most specialists would be lost as primary care docs. i think we differ on opinion of what is considered a "specialist" only. i of course was referring to a medical specialty and you were referring more, it seems, to specialization within the field of chiropractic (which is fine, my mistake for assuming otherwise).

#5 was just to say that i'm sure there are tons more things a primary care doc would be able to do in terms of "procedures" that a DC could not (answering freddydpt's question). but i of course recognize that there are many things a chiro would do that the primary care doc couldn't.

-J