Do EC's even matter for getting into dental school??

[artvandelay786]

---

Members do not see this ad.

It seems like all that matters for most schools (not Ivies, mind you) is DAT and GPA.

Basically, the way I see admissions is:
40% GPA
45& DAT
10% Interview
5% ECs

Is this true? How would you change this breakdown?

 

[jeffity]

Depends on the school. But in general, I think it's safe to say GPA & DAT are king. Worry about those before anything else. (The well-known exception is ASDOH who places service/volunteering at or above the same importance of DAT/GPA).

Also, some schools choose to interview off various factors (GPA, DAT, ECs), but take all of that off the table once they interview. At that point, it's 100% interview for admissions. I know others have some weird formula or point system applied to applicants with interview playing a certain role.

Given the size of the applicant pool, ECs could potentially decide you over the other guy. They probably see plenty of average GPA, average DAT 20-something bio majors. But you still have LOEs and your PS. But you'll never really know which schools place more emphasis on this or that beyond the obvious DAT/GPA. So it's certainly not something to neglect or just do the bare minimum, especially if you're an average GPA/DAT applicant.

One more thing....this cover sheet they've added. The purpose is to help look beyond just stats. If you're skinny on ECs, your coversheet isn't going to look so impressive. That's not a good first impression.

 

[casiouser]

It seems like all that matters for most schools (not Ivies, mind you) is DAT and GPA.

Basically, the way I see admissions is:
40% GPA
45& DAT
10% Interview
5% ECs

Is this true? How would you change this breakdown?

ECs are really important, well in the end atleast. Basically it's like your bonus points. Everyone who applies now a days, and is deemed competitive in terms of stats, has a 3.5+ GPA and a 20+ DAT. To choose from all these 3.5s and 20s, dental schools will looks at other things, like ECs and LOEs. They are really important! and can mean the difference between acceptance and rejection.
No percent break down, all are important. If you lack in one, it could mean a rejection.
Not to mention each school looks at things differently, some favor DAT scores, some GPA, some ECs! But in the end all are needed.

My guess to the average school is:

40% GPA
30% DAT
20% ECs
10% interview (usually this is to make sure youre social, depending on school it can be more important, like some choose only 50% of interviewees, some 90%)

...just my opinion

 

[Parklife]

^Switch DAT with gpa

 

[casiouser]

^Switch DAT with gpa

Regarding my post? Id say GPA is more important, it takes a solid 4 years to build a respectable GPA, which is so hard to maintain (and if its low, so hard to bring up). While a DAT takes 1 month to get a decent score, or a good score for most science majors. And a low DAT is easier to repair, just takes a redo test....

 

[scsc7211]

Regarding my post? Id say GPA is more important, it takes a solid 4 years to build a respectable GPA, which is so hard to maintain (and if its low, so hard to bring up). While a DAT takes 1 month to get a decent score, or a good score for most science majors. And a low DAT is easier to repair, just takes a redo test....

While I agree that a high GPA requires more work overall, your statement that "a low DAT is easier to repair, just takes a redo test" leaves out the important fact that simply retaking the test does guarantee an improved score; it requires a great deal of additional time, dedication and work. Some individuals thrive on standardized exams while others hate them. I have to imagine that a student who has taken the DAT three times without meeting their goal would disagree that it just takes a redo test.

Sent from my SPH-D700 using SDN Mobile

 

[Dainotda]

I feel like your DAT/GPA are the most important factors for getting your foot in the door for an interview invitation.

My estimate is:
30% GPA/transcript
25% DAT
30% ECs
15% interview

I feel like ECs are just as important as your GPA/transcript since that's what differentiates you from the other applicants. Your experiences and responsibilities give the admissions committee more than just numbers to look at, especially when there are so many other applicants with the same stats.

 

[casiouser]

While I agree that a high GPA requires more work overall, your statement that "a low DAT is easier to repair, just takes a redo test" leaves out the important fact that simply retaking the test does guarantee an improved score; it requires a great deal of additional time, dedication and work. Some individuals thrive on standardized exams while others hate them. I have to imagine that a student who has taken the DAT three times without meeting their goal would disagree that it just takes a redo test.

Sent from my SPH-D700 using SDN Mobile

Regardless it a lot less time to improve a DAT, and GPA is NOT. It takes a semester (months) to do 15 credits, and with already 60 credits at a low GPA, 15 credits does very little impact even with high grades. A DAT takes dedication but less time and "effort" (relative) and not to mention less info compared to 5 upper level science courses with midterms, labs, exams, papers....

 

[casiouser]

I feel like your DAT/GPA are the most important factors for getting your foot in the door for an interview invitation.

My estimate is:
30% GPA/transcript
25% DAT
30% ECs
15% interview

This should be made a meme....

"says GPA and DAT are most important".....

"Ranks EC higher than DAT"....

 

[Dainotda]

This should be made a meme....

"says GPA and DAT are most important".....

"Ranks EC higher than DAT"....

Haha, I meant together, they are the first thing an admissions committee looks at.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, I'll clarify:
I feel that the importance on each component changes depending on which step you're at in the cycle.
For the interview: gpa/dat are most important
For acceptance after getting the interview: extracurriculars are what will make you stand out from the other applicants

 

[scsc7211]

Agreed. I just wanted to note that standardized exams are the main obstacle for some. Beyond the subject matter, the pressure and stress of a 5 hour exam can be extremely challenging (if not debilitating), and additional studying may not change that fact for certain individuals.

Sent from my SPH-D700 using SDN Mobile

 

[Changedude21]

It seems like all that matters for most schools (not Ivies, mind you) is DAT and GPA.

Basically, the way I see admissions is:
40% GPA
45& DAT
10% Interview
5% ECs

Is this true? How would you change this breakdown?

I don't think that is true AT ALL. This is my second year applying and last year I applied with 23AA/24TS/21PAT and a 3.8 GPA/sGPA. I applied to 6 schools, 5 interviews, and only 1 acceptance (but for another reason, the acceptance was rescinded afterwards). So I think the interview is a lot more important than people think...Of course, I was not the best interviewer last year, but I definitely feel much better about it this year. But you will NOT get accepted without a good interview at most schools. not sure about ECs though.

 

[scsc7211]

I don't think that is true AT ALL. This is my second year applying and last year I applied with 23AA/24TS/21PAT and a 3.8 GPA/sGPA. I applied to 6 schools, 5 interviews, and only 1 acceptance (but for another reason, the acceptance was rescinded afterwards). So I think the interview is a lot more important than people think...Of course, I was not the best interviewer last year, but I definitely feel much better about it this year. But you will NOT get accepted without a good interview at most schools. not sure about ECs though.

Man, I feel for you. I wouldn't wish that upon my worst enemy/strongest pre-dental competitor.

Sent from my SPH-D700 using SDN Mobile

 

[UltimateHombre]

I don't think that is true AT ALL. This is my second year applying and last year I applied with 23AA/24TS/21PAT and a 3.8 GPA/sGPA. I applied to 6 schools, 5 interviews, and only 1 acceptance (but for another reason, the acceptance was rescinded afterwards). So I think the interview is a lot more important than people think...Of course, I was not the best interviewer last year, but I definitely feel much better about it this year. But you will NOT get accepted without a good interview at most schools. not sure about ECs though.

First off, I am sorry this happened to you!!

Secondly, there is a lot of truth to your statement. How ADCOMS measure every individual DAT/GPA/EC is totally a crap shoot... who really knows? And i think debating it is totally pointless.

However, your DAT/GPA/EC's all get you in the door for an interview... then i feel a lot of emphasis is placed on this. If they don't like you as a person for whatever reason, they will reject you regardless of how good your stats are. You need to interview well period, if you have any hopes of getting into d-school.

 

[duke2121]

I don't think that is true AT ALL. This is my second year applying and last year I applied with 23AA/24TS/21PAT and a 3.8 GPA/sGPA. I applied to 6 schools, 5 interviews, and only 1 acceptance (but for another reason, the acceptance was rescinded afterwards). So I think the interview is a lot more important than people think...Of course, I was not the best interviewer last year, but I definitely feel much better about it this year. But you will NOT get accepted without a good interview at most schools. not sure about ECs though.

Wow, that must have been tough.Yeah, I wouldn't wish that upon my worst pre-dent enemy either. Wait why was your acceptance rescinded? You can PM me if you want.

 

[Parklife]

Regarding my post? Id say GPA is more important, it takes a solid 4 years to build a respectable GPA, which is so hard to maintain (and if its low, so hard to bring up). While a DAT takes 1 month to get a decent score, or a good score for most science majors. And a low DAT is easier to repair, just takes a redo test....

Go to a crap state school = 4.0 with beer dripping out your nose

Go to selective school = 3.5 while working hard

At either school: ratemyprofessor every class, get an easy A professor, get A. Poor sucker doesn't know how to research professors or classes, takes a death professor - gets lower grade in a class he shouldn't.

DAT standardizes everything.


I'd say ECs have a lot more bulk than you think OP.

 

[Kingsta2426]

They don't matter with a 3.8+ GPA AND 23+ AA

 

[Changedude21]

Wow, that must have been tough.Yeah, I wouldn't wish that upon my worst pre-dent enemy either. Wait why was your acceptance rescinded? You can PM me if you want.

I have already posted about it in a previous thread, but I made a huge mistake by agreeing to take my roommate's final exam. The professor caught me before I took it though and I received a semester of suspension. However, all of this was last December AFTER December 1st, so I still know that my interview was a big reason I only received 1/5 acceptances on Dec 1st. But that acceptance was rescinded after I told them about what happened (I didn't tell the other schools right away though, hoping that an acceptance would come and then I would tell them). So, I am hoping schools will see that I have learned from my huge mistake this year...at least I hope so.

 

[DoeAdeer]

It seems like all that matters for most schools (not Ivies, mind you) is DAT and GPA.

Basically, the way I see admissions is:
40% GPA
45& DAT
10% Interview
5% ECs

Is this true? How would you change this breakdown?

I'd change it to

25% science GPA
25% DAT TS
10% DAT RC
10% DAT PAT
15% shadowing and volunteering (assign maximum points if above certain hours)
15% interview (assign maximum points unless the candidate doesn't know how to behave professionally and have the wrong reasons to get into the field of dentistry).

So ECs only matter in the sense that they include shadowing and volunteering activities.

 

[aqz]

Go to a crap state school = 4.0 with beer dripping out your nose

Go to selective school = 3.5 while working hard

At either school: ratemyprofessor every class, get an easy A professor, get A. Poor sucker doesn't know how to research professors or classes, takes a death professor - gets lower grade in a class he shouldn't.

DAT standardizes everything.


I'd say ECs have a lot more bulk than you think OP.

I'll agree that DAT has more weight than GPA in the sense that DAT is more standardized.

Personally, I only have a 3.6 overall, and a lower bcp/sGPA, maybe a 3.5. Reason it's not as high as it should be is because I'm in a top public engineering school and getting screwed out of an A- in some classes (getting 89.5-89.7 in some key classes like biochem, physics) didn't help.

And then there's the DAT equalizer.

 

[doc toothache]

So many opinions so little time.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=943474
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=942453

 

[Zbtb7]

nvm I'll send a PM

 

[Seahawk]

ECs typically aren't the thing that makes or breaks it. You need something though.


Having a good GPA/DAT will get you an interview....

Then in the words of one ADCOM I talked to, "The stats basically disappear after you get the interview."


I think putting the interview in the same percentage mash up is slightly misguided...You guys are far under ranking the interview. No one knows what the actual percentages are , if they exist at all...But I am just going to use it to illustrate my point...It should be something like:

40% GPA
40% DAT
20% ECs/other

...Get an interview...THEN:


70% Interview
30% GPA/DAT/ECs/other....


This was the impression given to me by my state schools, and that I have come to believe after watching people time and time again apply with 3.9s and 19s and get interviews then get rejected while people with much lower stats get accepted.

 

[mustardseed5]

Agreed, stats mean less once an interview is offered.

 

[Tunaman]

All i can say is that between last cycle and the current one, the improvement on the DAT has played a major role in getting interviews this cycle. Me and a friend applied around the same time last cycle, he had a 22/22/21 with 2.7 GPA in both science and cumulative, while I had a 19/20/21 3.53cGPA and 3.65sGPA, and close to 1000hrs of volunteering/shadowing with tons of EC's. We both applied to similar programs, I received absolutely no interviews while he landed 2- one from an Ivy, the other from a great clinical school. Needless to say, he's a D1 while I'm still applying. I am very happy for him and support him 100%. Moral of the story, the DAT IS KING. Since applying this cycle, I have landed 3 interviews to date. Never give up, the only way is "through"!

 

[markthedent]

All i can say is that between last cycle and the current one, the improvement on the DAT has played a major role in getting interviews this cycle. Me and a friend applied around the same time last cycle, he had a 22/22/21 with 2.7 GPA in both science and cumulative, while I had a 19/20/21 3.53cGPA and 3.65sGPA, and close to 1000hrs of volunteering/shadowing with tons of EC's. We both applied to similar programs, I received absolutely no interviews while he landed 2- one from an Ivy, the other from a great clinical school. Needless to say, he's a D1 while I'm still applying. I am very happy for him and support him 100%. Moral of the story, the DAT IS KING. Since applying this cycle, I have landed 3 interviews to date. Never give up, the only way is "through"!

Interesting you say this, but when i was looking into my friends acceptances/rejections (oh and we are canadians), the 2 that got accepted had am avg 3.90GPA and 19AA dat, while my other friend with is 3.0 and 22AA dat got rejected at all his schools so far, she's still waiting on UDM.

 

[gumdrop16]

It seems like all that matters for most schools (not Ivies, mind you) is DAT and GPA.

Basically, the way I see admissions is:
40% GPA
45& DAT
10% Interview
5% ECs

Is this true? How would you change this breakdown?

id say yes this is true. and this is true for ivies too.

 

[jpark1800]

Go to a crap state school = 4.0 with beer dripping out your nose

Go to selective school = 3.5 while working hard

At either school: ratemyprofessor every class, get an easy A professor, get A. Poor sucker doesn't know how to research professors or classes, takes a death professor - gets lower grade in a class he shouldn't.

DAT standardizes everything.


I'd say ECs have a lot more bulk than you think OP.

I hope you aren't under the impression that state schools are crap and that they are easy. The prestigious state schools such as UVA, UC Berkeley, UNC, UCLA, etc. are a heck of a lot more difficult than 'selective' schools such as Brown, Stanford, Harvard, Duke, etc. Those 'selective' private schools often inflate their gpa and some have a policy where you can drop a class the day before the final and nothing will show up on your transcript.

 

[hahahigh]

I hope you aren't under the impression that state schools are crap and that they are easy. The prestigious state schools such as UVA, UC Berkeley, UNC, UCLA, etc. are a heck of a lot more difficult than 'selective' schools such as Brown, Stanford, Harvard, Duke, etc. Those 'selective' private schools often inflate their gpa and some have a policy where you can drop a class the day before the final and nothing will show up on your transcript.

Speaking from the point of view of someone who is currently attending one of those "prestigious state schools", I hope you are not in turn under the impression that the 'selective' schools that you listed are that easy. I have a number of close friends from high school who chose the Ivy League path, and they are working as hard, if not even harder, than I am. Difficulties will range from school to school, whether they are private or public, so let's try to avoid generalizations from both ends.

 

[jpark1800]

Speaking from the point of view of someone who is currently attending one of those "prestigious state schools", I hope you are not in turn under the impression that the 'selective' schools that you listed are that easy. I have a number of close friends from high school who chose the Ivy League path, and they are working as hard, if not even harder, than I am. Difficulties will range from school to school, whether they are private or public, so let's try to avoid generalizations from both ends.

The selected schools that I listed are extremely easy. It is not an impression, it is a fact:

"[SIZE=-1]At Harvard, eight out of ten students graduate with honors."[/SIZE]

At elite Brown University, two-thirds of all letter grades given are now A's

Is grade inflation a crisis at Duke and at other selective colleges? Former Duke statistics professor Valen Johnson thinks so - and will reveal his evidence in a book to be released April 18

I never mentioned MIT, Princeton, or CalTech. I know those schools are hard, that is why I didn't mention them. Stanford, Harvard, Brown, and Duke have massive grade inflation. There is no disputing this.

 

[Zbtb7]

The selected schools that I listed are extremely easy. It is not an impression, it is a fact:

"[SIZE=-1]At Harvard, eight out of ten students graduate with honors."[/SIZE]

At elite Brown University, two-thirds of all letter grades given are now A's

Is grade inflation a crisis at Duke and at other selective colleges? Former Duke statistics professor Valen Johnson thinks so - and will reveal his evidence in a book to be released April 18

I never mentioned MIT, Princeton, or CalTech. I know those schools are hard, that is why I didn't mention them. Stanford, Harvard, Brown, and Duke have massive grade inflation. There is no disputing this.

Got any evidence of grade inflation in the sciences at those schools?

 

[hahahigh]

The selected schools that I listed are extremely easy. It is not an impression, it is a fact:

"[SIZE=-1]At Harvard, eight out of ten students graduate with honors."[/SIZE]

At elite Brown University, two-thirds of all letter grades given are now A's

Is grade inflation a crisis at Duke and at other selective colleges? Former Duke statistics professor Valen Johnson thinks so - and will reveal his evidence in a book to be released April 18

I never mentioned MIT, Princeton, or CalTech. I know those schools are hard, that is why I didn't mention them. Stanford, Harvard, Brown, and Duke have massive grade inflation. There is no disputing this.

But the inverse correlation between a greater number of A's and the difficulty of attaining those A's is not proven. There is no disputing that the grade distribution of a state school and a so-called elite school may vary in frequency, but factoring in the selectivity of both sides and by proxy the nature of their student body is something that I think a lot of sources disregard. One of the links you provided stated that "According to Rojstaczer, the average GPA is 3.01 at state schools, but the GPA at many state flagships the GPA is 3.2." By the same reasoning, are we to infer that these state flagships are less competitive and easier than their lower-ranked counterparts?

Regardless of everything, to call these very well-regarded schools like Duke and Standford easy is far from being an indisputable fact. There must be a reason why they are what they are, and I highly doubt they got there by coddling their students and spoon-feeding them ideas of their greatness.

 

[Impulse155]

Regarding my post? Id say GPA is more important, it takes a solid 4 years to build a respectable GPA, which is so hard to maintain (and if its low, so hard to bring up). While a DAT takes 1 month to get a decent score, or a good score for most science majors. And a low DAT is easier to repair, just takes a redo test....

But if we are both given the same exam, and I score better than you, doesnt that mean that over those 4 years I learned more than you? Or maybe I was in a harder curriculum?

 

[casiouser]

no...it means u can write long tests better than me. Plus you cant eliminate "bad days", what if i wasnt feeling so good that day, etc. A GPA is a mix of reading publications, presentations, exam/midterm writing, writing papers, discussion, lab work, lab reports, maturity. A GPA is more than just a mark, it shows maturity and capacity to do very well many regards. DAT is just an exam. GPA says more about a person.

I speak of science based curriculums..

 

[Glimmer1991]

Regarding the DAT vs. GPA...

DAT is so much more standardized. I don't think that the GPA necessarily says more about a person. I know friends at state schools who are, well, not exactly the brightest with no work ethic and are making "A"s in organic chemistry. Some schools have highly inflated grades, in my opinion.

For the DAT, though, the playing field is more leveled. Everyone is tackling the same thing. Theoretically, it is standardized so that scores are equivalent on all test versions, although I admit there is likely some variability here.

Obviously, both matter. But, if I were an adcom, I would think the DAT should count more. 🙂

 

[Seahawk]

It surprises me that people say DAT more...

We are talking 4 years of varied work versus 4 hours looking at a computer screen.

 

[markthedent]

It surprises me that people say DAT more...

We are talking 4 years of varied work versus 4 hours looking at a computer screen.

+100

Furthermore, as casiouser said 4 years of not just plain memorizing, but more understanding and applying what you learned. A test says nothing more than you know the science (atleast in a memorizing perspective). But a GPA shows you know the science, you can present infront of your colleagues and answer questions, your lab skill is good, youre a communicator, youre able to apply and extract knowledge from the primary literature. All which is crucial to succeeding in dental school, and beyond.
Hands down, in my point of view, GPA>>DAT
DAT is just 1 little thing that shows you know the science, but GPA is more accurate about you as a person, as a student, as a scientist and as a future dental student.

 

[Sal427]

GPA > DAT

GPA shows your total work ethic, not just a couple months of studying.