DO friendly allopathic anesthesia programs

Started by DoDrIII
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DoDrIII

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I am a med student looking to go into anesthesiology. I am not sure how competitive programs are and which ones have both a good reputation and are DO friendly. I took both comlex and usmle. Does anyone have any suggestions for me as to which programs I should look into? I am preferentially looking into CA programs but would also be interested in east coast and south east coast programs.

Thanx!
 
First of all, good job in taking the USMLE (not a bad score either). You'll find that it'll open more doors for you. In part you'll have to wait for the current interview season to get going in order to see where things are headed. Last year when I appied Anesthesia was two or so years into an upswing in popularity so things were getting a bit tighter. However even with that said myself and others I know were enjoying plenty of interview invites. With the specialities continued popularity the work of future D.O. applicants will get a little tougher. In your case, with a step-1 score of 234, I'm sure you'll be fine (can't comment on Cali though).
 
Green Are you a DO or MD? what place are you doing your residency at? Are there DOs in your program? I am also female. does that matter? I know from our school last year 7 people out of a class of 120 placed in allopathic anesthesia programs. I know that some programs have lots of DOs and others have none. Other than ones that list their residents, Im not sure how to find this out.
 
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I'm a D.O. and will be heading to the Univ. of Michigan next year after internship. In the past they've matched ~2 D.O.'s per class. I interviewed at 13 programs and cancelled 4 others. Most programs I interviewed at take roughly 1-3 pre year depending on the overall program size (about proportional the % of DOs out there). Gender shouldn't matter, haven't heard of any specific programs known to be otherwise. Try digging up posts from the past few years about where people have matched and you'll find some info about where DOs are going. Some of my classmates went to John's Hopkins, the Mayo Clinic, Mercy in Pittsburgh, Albert Einstein & Univ. of Conn.
 
Heeed! said:
I rotated at UC-Davis in Sacramento and interviewed. They take some DOs every year.
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Did you end up going to Davis or where did you end up going? What did you think of Davis? That is actually one i was looking at bc I saw they had about 2 DOs/yr.

I've also seen a lot of posts on here bashing DOs. Im not sure why. But I still think a lot of programs are old fashioned and wont accept DOs even if the DO applicant is 2x as good as the MD applicant. I dont want to go somewhere that I feel I will be severely discriminated against. Is this not the case at some places?


Just wondering, where did all of you guys go to med school?
 
DoDrIII said:
But I still think a lot of programs are old fashioned and wont accept DOs even if the DO applicant is 2x as good as the MD applicant. I dont want to go somewhere that I feel I will be severely discriminated against. Is this not the case at some places?
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There are extremely few, if any, posts bashing DO's on this forum.

You have been severely misinformed about DO's and anesthesia. We are widely accepted by the community. There are maybe a small handful, like count em on one hand, number of programs that will not look at a DO app. The other 80 do.
 
DoDrIII said:
I dont want to go somewhere that I feel I will be severely discriminated against. Is this not the case at some places?
Click to expand...

The good news is that if a program has a particularly discriminatory stance against DOs, they are probably unlikely to offer you an interview.

Most people will not make any more of an issue out of the letters after your name than you choose to make yourself. If you have some sort of complex about being a DO, then it will be a lot more of an issue.
 
Are DOs considered better candidates than IMGs, I have no issues by the way just want to know the truth behind the perspectives of pds and stuff...
 
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mazinger said:
Are DOs considered better candidates than IMGs, I have no issues by the way just want to know the truth behind the perspectives of pds and stuff...
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The most recent NRMP match statistics didn't elucidate the difference in match success between USDOs and IMGs as well as I've seen in the past. However, I recall that USDOs tended to have a better likelihood of matching than IMGs. This is especially true compared to non-US citizen IMGs. Most programs would prefer not to have to deal with all the visa issues of nonresident IMGs.
 
you can always look for a "current residents" page on the websites of programs you're interested in and see how many of their residents are DOs
 
ya i have been trying to do that but I havent been able to find the residents of all of the places, it appears as if only some list them.

Does anyone know how programs view ppl from the US that went to med school in the caribbean vs. Us DOs?

Does anyone know how I can find out application/acceptance statistics for programs and what they look for, etc?
 
DoDrIII said:
ya i have been trying to do that but I havent been able to find the residents of all of the places, it appears as if only some list them.

Does anyone know how programs view ppl from the US that went to med school in the caribbean vs. Us DOs?

Does anyone know how I can find out application/acceptance statistics for programs and what they look for, etc?
Click to expand...

How about you just apply?

You really care that much about saving money for something as important as landing a good residency?
 
i have heard the following programs are DO unfriendly: emory, uva, musc, ut-knoxville. but guess what, i am applying anyways....because it is only money! ...that is i am applying if I can ever finish my stupid p.s.
 
ive read somewhere that applying for consecutive anesth. programs
ups ur chances in getting in, but not too sure if u'll end up going somewhere you'd want to go.. but thats just statistical isnt it? the more u apply the more likely u'll get in somewhere

here's my question, to increase the chances more, would listing say like 20 anesthesia programs (places where u wouldnt mind living at) first, then like 10 transitional year programs or scramble for TY be a good security blanket?

Doing a transitional year PGY-1 and then reapplying to CA-1, are there drawbacks to this? read on some program websites that there arent always
CA-1 positions open. I pre-apologize if this issue was discussed in another thread but wasnt sure if this one was specifically talked about :scared:
 
dingozlife said:
ive read somewhere that applying for consecutive anesth. programs
ups ur chances in getting in, but not too sure if u'll end up going somewhere you'd want to go.. but thats just statistical isnt it? the more u apply the more likely u'll get in somewhere

here's my question, to increase the chances more, would listing say like 20 anesthesia programs (places where u wouldnt mind living at) first, then like 10 transitional year programs or scramble for TY be a good security blanket?

Doing a transitional year PGY-1 and then reapplying to CA-1, are there drawbacks to this? read on some program websites that there arent always
CA-1 positions open. I pre-apologize if this issue was discussed in another thread but wasnt sure if this one was specifically talked about :scared:
Click to expand...

If you definitely want to do anesthesia, then yes interview and rank as many anesthesia programs as you can. You can rank advanced (PGY 2) anesthesia programs with a "sub-rank" including your transitional year programs.

As far as whether to list transitional year programs in your primary list below the anesthesia programs - one downside is that it would prevent you from being able to scramble for categorical (PGY1) anesthesia spots. On the other hand, if you only list TYs that appeal to you, at least you can feel good about where you'll spend your intern year.

Most of this will probably be a moot point if you interview and rank enough programs.
 
I have not found at all in my career that being a DO mattered. What did seem to matter was board scores. So make sure your application is as good as it can be, and apply wherever you want. I even took out an additional loan for interviews, applications and away rotation funding because THERE IS NO PRICE FOR SECURING YOUR FUTURE!
 
how do extracurricular activites fit into the application? Are they really important. I was writing my CV and realized i have done very little extracurricular activites in Med school, mostly bc i have no free time.

also, how important are class rank and gpa. I keep seeing everyone saying "im in the top 5% of my class" and "my gpa is a 90-something average".

and what about undergraduate stuff. does that count for anything or do they not really care at all about that?
 
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amyl said:
i have heard the following programs are DO unfriendly: emory, uva, musc, ut-knoxville. but guess what, i am applying anyways....because it is only money! ...that is i am applying if I can ever finish my stupid p.s.
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I can't speak for the others but I interviewed @ MUSC so they are definatly not do unfriendly. I never rotated there and it was one of the first interviews I got so I doubt they had intentions of interviewing and not ranking DOs. UT Knoxville and UVA never responeded @ all
 
I've heard that the following programs are not D.O. friendly, has anyone else heard otherwise?

University of colorado, Denver
Duke
Louisiana programs - aka like tulane, LSU (although maybe not anymore after the hurricane 🙂)
 
DoDrIII said:
I've heard that the following programs are not D.O. friendly, has anyone else heard otherwise?

University of colorado, Denver
Duke
Louisiana programs - aka like tulane, LSU (although maybe not anymore after the hurricane 🙂)
Click to expand...

Got an interview at Ucolorado last year
 
DoDrIII said:
I've heard that the following programs are not D.O. friendly, has anyone else heard otherwise?

University of colorado, Denver
Duke
Louisiana programs - aka like tulane, LSU (although maybe not anymore after the hurricane 🙂)
Click to expand...


My friend, for the love of god, will you please just apply already. One of my classmates, a DO matched at the university of Colorado in '05. You should apply anywhere you want and don't worry about whether or not they are DO friendly because most likely they ARE DO friendly.

Also, don't wait for your personal statement to be ready before you apply. Its not necessary to submit the app....you should just try and get it done soon thereafter. I got many interviews based on my CV/board scores and no personal statement. Look over your ERAS carefully.
 
acgme programs probably wont make a big deal about do's if do's dont make a big deal about being do's +/-
 
I interviewed @ tulane last year. Just apply broadly but don't go overboard. If you can't pull interviews after applying to 30-35 programs your just not a strong candidate. Apply broadly and don't worry about wasting money on 1 or 2 programs where you might not match
 
VentdependenT said:
There are extremely few, if any, posts bashing DO's on this forum.

You have been severely misinformed about DO's and anesthesia. We are widely accepted by the community. There are maybe a small handful, like count em on one hand, number of programs that will not look at a DO app. The other 80 do.
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Venty, as usual, is right on the money! Very very few programs out there who are anti-DO...the only MILD chagrin I encountered in 2002 - when I was interviewing - was at UVA (they just had a snooty feel about them...NOT the residents though). Otherwise, I applied to many of the biggies & was granted interviews - yes, I am a DO. I just FINISHED (yes, you read that correctly - FINISHED) my residency at Dartmouth a couple of months ago. {on second thought, as big a pain-in-the-ass as I was, you might want to avoid Dartmouth for a couple of cycles...just kidding!}

My personal theory, for what that is worth ($2 + my opinion might get you a cup of coffee somewhere), is that during the anesthesia app down-years of the 90s, they began taking DOs in lieu of FMGs & figured out were pretty damned sharp, well trained & not a buncha existentialist bozos. Now, almost no programs bat an eye at the thought of interviewing or matching a DO-candidate.

Best of luck & success to you!
 
DoDrIII said:
how do extracurricular activites fit into the application? Are they really important. I was writing my CV and realized i have done very little extracurricular activites in Med school, mostly bc i have no free time.

also, how important are class rank and gpa. I keep seeing everyone saying "im in the top 5% of my class" and "my gpa is a 90-something average".

and what about undergraduate stuff. does that count for anything or do they not really care at all about that?
Click to expand...



Extracurrics count for residency just like they did for med school. If and ONLY if you present a competitive application and have some extracurrics to add, they are a big feather in your hat. However, if your app is weak or has poignant weaknesses, NO AMOUNT of extracurrics will make up for the deficiency. So, focus your efforts on where the yield is - Board scores, Letters of rec, 3rd & 4th year grades & your ERAS app.

Class rank & GPA - in my experience, were not that important. Programs place massive emphasis on 3rd & 4th year grades, board scores, letters of rec & your board scores. The other stuff, IF & ONLY if those 4 elements are competitive, is like icing on your cake.

No one gives a rat's @$$ about your Ugrad, high school, grade school, kindergarten or crossing gaurd accomplishments. The money is what you accomplished in med school.
 
With regards to undergrad accomplishments, you should consider mentioning important leadership positions. If you were class president for instance. It really comes down to your decision. Most people who have made it as far as you were on the dean's letter and in the pre med honor society. I wouldn't bother with that stuff. Same with the greek stuff. Things that make you unique or may be a point of interest to talk about, you should include. If you played a varsity sport and were named all conference or academic all conference. That may spark some conversation. There are too many others to mention. But basically, if it is unique and interesting and may set you apart, I would include it. If it is something you think more than ~20% of applicants have also accomplished in their undergrad years, it probably is not worth mentioning.
Just my opinion.
 
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As I discussed ad nauseum two years ago, the Cali/Boston/NYC programs were notoriously unfriendly to me. Im assuming it was because I was a DO in a sea of qualified MD candidates, although my numbers were very good. My sample size is small however, but I didnt even get rejection emails from UCSF/Stanford/MGH/Brigham/Columbia (Cornell and BID were nice enough to send one...in April!!). Was also shut out from Emory, Duke, Arizona (?) and Northwestern.

Anyway, I did get interviews at notoriously DO-unfriendly Colorado and UVA. Virginia actually sent me letters and postcards pre-match (the only program who did that for me), and I heard from an interviewer that they had never had a DO before, so I dont think its really an issue for them.

Vandy, Mayo-Jax, UF, UAB, WashU, UTSW, Oklahoma all seemed at worst DO-neutral. Nobody was overly friendly to me because I was a DO, however 😉
 
In the ERAS forum, a program director mentioned the use of filters when selecting applicants for interviews. I'm assuming there's an anti-DO filter as well. Guess if they see that DO degree it gets sent to the recycle bin. Oh well. I'm applying to NYC and Boston programs as well.
 
Idiopathic said:
As I discussed ad nauseum two years ago, the Cali/Boston/NYC programs were notoriously unfriendly to me. Im assuming it was because I was a DO in a sea of qualified MD candidates, although my numbers were very good. My sample size is small however, but I didnt even get rejection emails from UCSF/Stanford/MGH/Brigham/Columbia (Cornell and BID were nice enough to send one...in April!!). Was also shut out from Emory, Duke, Arizona (?) and Northwestern.

Anyway, I did get interviews at notoriously DO-unfriendly Colorado and UVA. Virginia actually sent me letters and postcards pre-match (the only program who did that for me), and I heard from an interviewer that they had never had a DO before, so I dont think its really an issue for them.

Vandy, Mayo-Jax, UF, UAB, WashU, UTSW, Oklahoma all seemed at worst DO-neutral. Nobody was overly friendly to me because I was a DO, however 😉
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So where did you end up going? Are you talking about Uof A? If anything that one seems completely DO friendly. If you look on their list of residents, they have more than I have seen on any other list. UC davis also has a few on their list. That surprises me that they were DO-unfriendly to you. What did your app look like?

I do have yet another question though. I would like to be dually certified by AOA and AMA. Is there someway to do an osteopathic or maybe dually accredited internship year, then do an allopathic residency years 2-4?
 
I was surprised not to get an interview invite (or rejection, for that matter) from U of A.

My app looked basically like this: 3.9, 258 USMLE, 750 COMLEX, loads of EC's (jobs, tutoring) good letters from allo programs, etc. They may have just figured that I wouldnt want to come from Oklahoma to Arizona?? Or they may have just gotten too many qualified applicants.

Regardless, I got my first choice (Vandy) and would have been happy with any of my top 5 or 6. You can find AOA-approved internships to go along with ACGME residencies. Some are dual (Oklahoma comes to mind) and some make you do an advanced program with a separate PGY-1 year.
 
The whole interview acquisition process doesn't intrinsically make sense. Some folks will get interviews where you cant even though scores are the same and vice versa. I don't think its a "do" thing.
 
Idiopathic said:
I was surprised not to get an interview invite (or rejection, for that matter) from U of A.

My app looked basically like this: 3.9, 258 USMLE, 750 COMLEX, loads of EC's (jobs, tutoring) good letters from allo programs, etc. They may have just figured that I wouldnt want to come from Oklahoma to Arizona?? Or they may have just gotten too many qualified applicants.

Regardless, I got my first choice (Vandy) and would have been happy with any of my top 5 or 6. You can find AOA-approved internships to go along with ACGME residencies. Some are dual (Oklahoma comes to mind) and some make you do an advanced program with a separate PGY-1 year.
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Is that the best you could do on Boards? No wonder you could only match at Vanderbilt!:laugh:
 
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