Do I have any chance to go to DO school whatsoever?

[Revolver]

---

Members do not see this ad.

This is probably a long shot, but if I do 50 credits at community college, (and dont get into pharm school) but transfer to a four year university, finish a degree, and have an average of 3.5 GPA in the end (with nearly all science classes at CC though) can I get into DO school?

What would I have to change? I'm trying to formulate a backup plan if I don't get into pharmacy school on pre-reqs alone. I WILL make something out of myself 😀

 

[AngryBaby]

This is probably a long shot, but if I do 50 credits at community college, (and dont get into pharm school) but transfer to a four year university, finish a degree, and have an average of 3.5 GPA in the end (with nearly all science classes at CC though) can I get into DO school?

What would I have to change? I'm trying to formulate a backup plan if I don't get into pharmacy school on pre-reqs alone. I WILL make something out of myself 😀

Pharmacy school isn't nearly as difficult to get into as a DO pgrm. We'd need to know alot more about your grades, scores, EC to even (dangerously) speculate but I would imagine if you've finished your science pre-reqs and can't get into pharmacy school you'd have a hard time being accepted to any US medical school (maybe Carribean???).

The mean GPA for accepted DO applicants runs at about a 3.5, the MCAT varies widely between schools, though a 25 or 26 makes you fairly competitve at most (the MCAT is MUCH more intense and deeper than the PCAT). I'm going to go out on a limb and guess your grasp of osteopathic medicine is pretty loose so I recommend talking to a DO in your area or calling a local osteopathic school and speaking to someone on the adcom to help you get an idea.

 

[Revolver]

Well the thing is I heard DO is alot easier to get into than MD and I figure if I can't do Pharmacy, rather than becoming a PA or Nurse after completeing my degree, I may as well go the limit and try to become a DO.

 

[It'sElectric]

Well the thing is I heard DO is alot easier to get into than MD and I figure if I can't do Pharmacy, rather than becoming a PA or Nurse after completeing my degree, I may as well go the limit and try to become a DO.

Friend, this isn't an attack, but you need to seriously take a moment to consider what you want out of life. From your previous 2 posts, it sounds as though you don't have much of a clue, except for the fact that you want to "go the limit".

This isn't even about what's easier (md, do, pharmacy, or whatever). If you want to become a pharmacist, find out what it takes to get into the school you want. If you want to be a physician, a PA, or an RN, then do that. Don't just write down a list of what you think or respectable careers and move on down the line without any sort of real-world knowledge on any of them. I'll assume you're fairly young, so you have plenty of time, but start researching each profession now. Through your research, you'll be able to better determine what career best suits you (lifestyle, recognition, success, ambitions).

Good luck.

 

[AngryBaby]

Well the thing is I heard DO is alot easier to get into than MD and I figure if I can't do Pharmacy, rather than becoming a PA or Nurse after completeing my degree, I may as well go the limit and try to become a DO.

Nothing wrong with that. Taken as a whole, the scores and GPA for accepted DO students are lower than those of accepted MD students are lower, however whether or not that makes a DO program easier to get into or not is a topic of great and heated debate which I do not possess the testicular fortitude to get into right now.

To put this generally, you need to show aptitude in your pre-reqs. A science GPA in the 3.2 or lower category will require you to be exceptional with regards to your test scores, essay, EC's, etc. Additionally you'll need to have a firm grasp of what osteopathic medicine is and why it's for you. Finally many schools place some importance on clinical experience, volunteer or otherwise, so they know that you know what you're getting into...get that?

Generally speaking a 3.3 science GPA and 25 MCAT will keep you competitive at a fair number of DO programs, but as anyone will tell you there's a heckuva lot more to it than that. Talk to a DO and make sure you want to do it before you start the process, whenever that is.

 

[NonTradMed]

To the OP:

It sounds like you aren't picking a career based on your interests, but based on perceived prestige and the issue of what schools you think you have a shot at.

I live in a city which has a pharm school nearby and from what people tell me, getting into pharm school isn't hard, it's getting out that's more difficult. Med schools in general are more difficult to get into than out of, so if you don't have the stats to get into pharm school, you probably don't have much of a chance at a med school (DO or MD). That's just from what I can gather. I had a friend who was interested in pharm and bought a PCAT book and just looking over the PCAT stuff, it seems like the PCAT is much easier than the MCAT, so it doesn't seem like med school is a good backup plan for pharm.

Also, when you say 'go the limit', I assume you are referring to finding the a challenging and prestigeous career. I don't think these are the best criterias to pick a demanding career such as medicine. You should evaluate your decisions on the basis of whether you'd enjoy medicine, whether you mind the years of training in medschool and residency, and whether you can make the sacrifices, shoulder the financial burden etc. This the reality most med school students are looking into, not whether it'll be cocktail conversation that you got into med school or pharm school.

For med school, I suggest you shadow a few doctors, get some clinical experience. Then take a look at the MCAT and look at your overall GPA and sciGPA. If you still want to go to med school and think you have a shot, apply and find out. But make sure you would enjoy being a doctor, and that you won't mind the years of training and the heavy debt.

 

[CatsandCradles]

This is probably a long shot, but if I do 50 credits at community college, (and dont get into pharm school) but transfer to a four year university, finish a degree, and have an average of 3.5 GPA in the end (with nearly all science classes at CC though) can I get into DO school?

What would I have to change? I'm trying to formulate a backup plan if I don't get into pharmacy school on pre-reqs alone. I WILL make something out of myself 😀

Hi Revolver!

I think maybe you are confusing the DO program with something else, because going into one would entail training to be a physician; and I would recomend that you not think of medical school as a back up plan. That is like saying, well I can't get into a pharmacy program, I'll try for an MD program as my back up plan. That would be a red flag to your school's HPAC or medical advisory committe.

The process to entering is very time consuming and extremely costly in and of itself. (For me it was close to $1,500 in all the secondaries to the schools alone) The amount of work required to enter into a program is more than just your science class like biochem, histology, and microbiology, etc.

And taking the MCAT is no walk in the park. I've been in one that somehow lasted almost 11 hours and when it was all said done, one girl started crying because she was so upset with herself. I felt bad for her. Further more, you have to go through a fire and ice trying to get LORs from the right people.

There is also the ECs problem as well. They want to see that you are a well rounded canidate. They don't want someone with a 4.0 and 30+ MCAT with no ECs or LORs. And volunteering for 100 hours at the hospital pushing patients around doesn't cut it ~ cause everyone does that. They want to see EMT work, phelbotomy work, Peace Corp, Ameri Corp, that sort of thing.

So its a lot of work. Best of wishes and good luck!

C&C 🙂

 

[Barts]

This is probably a long shot, but if I do 50 credits at community college, (and dont get into pharm school) but transfer to a four year university, finish a degree, and have an average of 3.5 GPA in the end (with nearly all science classes at CC though) can I get into DO school?

What would I have to change? I'm trying to formulate a backup plan if I don't get into pharmacy school on pre-reqs alone. I WILL make something out of myself 😀

Aren't you the same guy that was asking about not reporting bad grades in the MD forum? I think you need to take a step back and look at your priorities and values before jumping into this.

Anyway, unlike what you were told in the MD forum, CC credits probably wont keep you from being admitted, but you also said that your GPA at the CC was closer to a 3.2 in your other thread. If you have 50 credits at a CC and a GPA of 3.2 there, you are going to have to do REALLY well at the 4 yr. school to get that 3.5 GPA your hoping for. This of course doesn't even take into account all of the bad grades that you were hoping to be able to "hide" as per the thread you made in the MD forum. Thread I was speaking about -

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=290615

 

[Revolver]

Aren't you the same guy that was asking about not reporting bad grades in the MD forum? I think you need to take a step back and look at your priorities and values before jumping into this.

Anyway, unlike what you were told in the MD forum, CC credits probably wont keep you from being admitted, but you also said that your GPA at the CC was closer to a 3.2 in your other thread. If you have 50 credits at a CC and a GPA of 3.2 there, you are going to have to do REALLY well at the 4 yr. school to get that 3.5 GPA your hoping for. This of course doesn't even take into account all of the bad grades that you were hoping to be able to "hide" as per the thread you made in the MD forum. Thread I was speaking about -

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=290615

Because GPA wise, DO school is easier to get into than pharm. Average pharm student has a 3.6+ GPA, with many up in the 3.8, 3.9 and 4.0 range. Most pharm students also have a 90+ PCAT, which means they scored better than 90% of all others who took the PCAT.

If I can't fix my GPA, I can fix the other stuff. It just may take me longer.

 

[OSUdoc08]

This is probably a long shot, but if I do 50 credits at community college, (and dont get into pharm school) but transfer to a four year university, finish a degree, and have an average of 3.5 GPA in the end (with nearly all science classes at CC though) can I get into DO school?

What would I have to change? I'm trying to formulate a backup plan if I don't get into pharmacy school on pre-reqs alone. I WILL make something out of myself 😀

Um, why couldn't you?

 

[NewNick]

Because GPA wise, DO school is easier to get into than pharm. Average pharm student has a 3.6+ GPA, with many up in the 3.8, 3.9 and 4.0 range. Most pharm students also have a 90+ PCAT, which means they scored better than 90% of all others who took the PCAT.

If I can't fix my GPA, I can fix the other stuff. It just may take me longer.

There is one pharm school (at least my friend went there, I don't know if there are more out there) doesn't require PCAT. I don't want to compare MCAT and PCAT yet. 🙂

 

[dr.z]

This is probably a long shot, but if I do 50 credits at community college, (and dont get into pharm school) but transfer to a four year university, finish a degree, and have an average of 3.5 GPA in the end (with nearly all science classes at CC though) can I get into DO school?

What would I have to change? I'm trying to formulate a backup plan if I don't get into pharmacy school on pre-reqs alone. I WILL make something out of myself 😀

If you do well enough on your MCAT, you can get into DO schools.

 

[It'sElectric]

You guys aren't at all alarmed by this person?

 

[OSUdoc08]

You guys aren't at all alarmed by this person?

Yes, it is alarming that someone thinks that becoming a physician is a backup to becoming a pharmacist.

Obviously if one is too incompetent to fill prescriptions at Walgreen's, they probably should not be allowed to have peoples' lives in their hands....

 

[NewNick]

You guys aren't at all alarmed by this person?

That's OK. Just be careful in our reply. No need to be offensive. At least, I have a good joke today.

 

[Barts]

Yes, it is alarming that someone thinks that becoming a physician is a backup to becoming a pharmacist.

Obviously if one is too incompetent to fill prescriptions at Walgreen's, they probably should not be allowed to have peoples' lives in their hands....

 

[Revolver]

I will try to say this without coming off as an ass, or completely negative, but it will be hard.

You people who think you need a 4.0 GPA and a 40 on the MCAT to become a DO disturb me. Look at the minimum requirements for DO schools. 2.5 GPA, bachelor's degree, science pre-reqs, and some extra curricular activities. The minimum requirements don't even come CLOSE to what some of you are saying is the actual minimum to get in, and the only reason the actual minimum is 3.5+ gpa and 25+ MCAT with tons of EC's is because the competition is fierce with thousands of over-achieving applicants - NOT because DO is so hard that you NEED to be a genius to complete it.

I think I can be an excellent pharmacist as well as a great doctor. Unfortunatley I have to work a full time job while attending school part time, and this may be foreign to you guys, but finding time to study and make straight A's is very difficult when multi tasking both. I do want to go to pharmacy school, the min pre reqs are a joke for most pharm schools, but the competition is so bad now because people love the lax pharm job that pays 100k a year, that you almost need a perfect 4.0 GPA and a 99 PCAT to get in.

Seriously guys.... some of you need to ground yourselves to other people's realities.

 

[OSUdoc08]

I will try to say this without coming off as an ass, or completely negative, but it will be hard.

You people who think you need a 4.0 GPA and a 40 on the MCAT to become a DO disturb me. Look at the minimum requirements for DO schools. 2.5 GPA, bachelor's degree, science pre-reqs, and some extra curricular activities. The minimum requirements don't even come CLOSE to what some of you are saying is the actual minimum to get in, and the only reason the actual minimum is 3.5+ gpa and 25+ MCAT with tons of EC's is because the competition is fierce with thousands of over-achieving applicants - NOT because DO is so hard that you NEED to be a genius to complete it.

I think I can be an excellent pharmacist as well as a great doctor. Unfortunatley I have to work a full time job while attending school part time, and this may be foreign to you guys, but finding time to study and make straight A's is very difficult when multi tasking both. I do want to go to pharmacy school, the min pre reqs are a joke for most pharm schools, but the competition is so bad now because people love the lax pharm job that pays 100k a year, that you almost need a perfect 4.0 GPA and a 99 PCAT to get in.

Seriously guys.... some of you need to ground yourselves to other people's realities.

I had a 3.4 GPA, and was accepted to 4 schools.

I was also accepted to 2 schools with a 24, prior to bringing my MCAT up to 28 on the second try.

I'm not sure where you get these "minimums," but you are clearly misinformed.

 

[Barts]

I will try to say this without coming off as an ass, or completely negative, but it will be hard.

You people who think you need a 4.0 GPA and a 40 on the MCAT to become a DO disturb me. Look at the minimum requirements for DO schools. 2.5 GPA, bachelor's degree, science pre-reqs, and some extra curricular activities. The minimum requirements don't even come CLOSE to what some of you are saying is the actual minimum to get in, and the only reason the actual minimum is 3.5+ gpa and 25+ MCAT with tons of EC's is because the competition is fierce with thousands of over-achieving applicants - NOT because DO is so hard that you NEED to be a genius to complete it.

I think I can be an excellent pharmacist as well as a great doctor. Unfortunatley I have to work a full time job while attending school part time, and this may be foreign to you guys, but finding time to study and make straight A's is very difficult when multi tasking both. I do want to go to pharmacy school, the min pre reqs are a joke for most pharm schools, but the competition is so bad now because people love the lax pharm job that pays 100k a year, that you almost need a perfect 4.0 GPA and a 99 PCAT to get in.

Seriously guys.... some of you need to ground yourselves to other people's realities.

Well first, I don't think anyone that has answered you has even suggested that a 4.0 and 45 MCAT will be needed, so holster the attitude. Second a lot of people work a full time job and attend school full time, so it's not foreign to everyone (including myself...but add in a husband and daughter that need attention to my equation). I don't think anyone said you might not be smart enough, I think people were questioning your motives and attitude. And as far as your telling other people to ground themselves to other people's realities is laughable. You seem to think that becuase you work and go to school part time you deserve special treatment...probably not going to happen so get over it.

As far as GPA I stated earlier you will need to buckle down when you get to a 4yr. school to get your GPA up. If you really want to be a DO then go for it, but by your posts I don't think you do, which is why I am giving you some attitude. 😉

 

[Revolver]

Well first, I don't think anyone that has answered you has even suggested that a 4.0 and 45 MCAT will be needed, so holster the attitude. Second a lot of people work a full time job and attend school full time, so it's not foreign to everyone (including myself...but add in a husband and daughter that need attention to my equation). I don't think anyone said you might not be smart enough, I think people were questioning your motives and attitude. And as far as your telling other people to ground themselves to other people's realities is laughable. You seem to think that becuase you work and go to school part time you deserve special treatment...probably not going to happen so get over it.

As far as GPA I stated earlier you will need to buckle down when you get to a 4yr. school to get your GPA up. If you really want to be a DO then go for it, but by your posts I don't think you do, which is why I am giving you some attitude. 😉

Pharmacy school does not require a degree for admission. Most require around 60 credits of pre-reqs, a good PCAT score, and extra curriculars. Because of the ridiculously high competition for entrance, the GPA recommended for admission is substantially higher than DO school.

If I don't get into pharmacy school I plan to transfer my credits to a four year university and finish my bachelor's degree. Once completed if my GPA is still not high enough for pharm school, then I will give DO school a shot.

But if you're wondering my motive - well I've always wanted to be a doctor. My dad is in the medical field and he works long hours but he really does feel a sense of accomplishment at the end of the day. And I won't lie, I'm in it for the money and prestige too - and if any of you claim that this isn't a driving force to become a doctor I will say you are......

Full
of
****.

That is all 🙂

 

[tkim]

One warning. Abide by the TOS for these forums, please. Or find yourself gone.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Pharmacy school does not require a degree for admission. Most require around 60 credits of pre-reqs, a good PCAT score, and extra curriculars. Because of the ridiculously high competition for entrance, the GPA recommended for admission is substantially higher than DO school.

If I don't get into pharmacy school I plan to transfer my credits to a four year university and finish my bachelor's degree. Once completed if my GPA is still not high enough for pharm school, then I will give DO school a shot.

But if you're wondering my motive - well I've always wanted to be a doctor. My dad is in the medical field and he works long hours but he really does feel a sense of accomplishment at the end of the day. And I won't lie, I'm in it for the money and prestige too - and if any of you claim that this isn't a driving force to become a doctor I will say you are......

Full
of
****.

That is all 🙂

Of filling prescriptions at Walgreen's?

Interesting......

 

[It'sElectric]

Pharmacy school does not require a degree for admission. Most require around 60 credits of pre-reqs, a good PCAT score, and extra curriculars. Because of the ridiculously high competition for entrance, the GPA recommended for admission is substantially higher than DO school.

If I don't get into pharmacy school I plan to transfer my credits to a four year university and finish my bachelor's degree. Once completed if my GPA is still not high enough for pharm school, then I will give DO school a shot.

But if you're wondering my motive - well I've always wanted to be a doctor. My dad is in the medical field and he works long hours but he really does feel a sense of accomplishment at the end of the day. And I won't lie, I'm in it for the money and prestige too - and if any of you claim that this isn't a driving force to become a doctor I will say you are......

Full
of
****.

That is all 🙂

Wow....all of sudden a switch just went off in your brain, and you became hypersensitive to any and all comments. You need to step back, relax, and realize what you're saying. First of all, I want to reiterate what people keep trying to hammer into your skull....this is not about DO being better/more competitive/etc. than Pharmacy. It literally has nothing to do with that, but you keep going back to it and spouting outright lies anyways (pharmacy gpas are NOT substantially higher than pre-med students' gpas...in fact, they're not higher. That's a fact.).

Let's get beyond all of that BS...I refuse to get into a pissing match with a child. Most importantly, people are disturbed by the fact that you see medicine as a backup. It is a huge committment that requires more than just deciding one day that you'd like to apply to med schools (DO or MD). Furthermore, I speak for myself and likely a majority of others on this board when I say that prestige literally has ZERO to do with me going into medicine. As far as money goes, as numerous people on SDN have stated before, don't go into medicine for money, because there are MANY other better and easier ways to make it!

If you want to be a pharmacist, then please go for it...become a pharmacist. You just need to realize that medicine is not a "backup" to pharmacy. I have 3 close friends in particular that I can think of right now that did Pharmacy as a backup to medicine (and got in successfully), but I have never heard of the reverse. Even still, pharmacy is a fantastic job, especially for the lifestyle, and it's obviously not a career that just anyone can do.

So best of luck once again. I'm sure you will go on to do wonderful things if you truly want to.

 

[clc8503]

Pharmacy school isn't nearly as difficult to get into as a DO pgrm. We'd need to know alot more about your grades, scores, EC to even (dangerously) speculate but I would imagine if you've finished your science pre-reqs and can't get into pharmacy school you'd have a hard time being accepted to any US medical school (maybe Carribean???).

The mean GPA for accepted DO applicants runs at about a 3.5, the MCAT varies widely between schools, though a 25 or 26 makes you fairly competitve at most (the MCAT is MUCH more intense and deeper than the PCAT). I'm going to go out on a limb and guess your grasp of osteopathic medicine is pretty loose so I recommend talking to a DO in your area or calling a local osteopathic school and speaking to someone on the adcom to help you get an idea.

I don't know where you are getting your stats from but a 3.5 is the average for MD, not DO. I'm not saying that DO is easy, but the mean is closer to around 3.3. Some schools, such as TCOM, have an average gpa of 3.5 but a lot of schools average between 3.2-3.4. You can also get into DO programs with a much lower MCAT than 25. Such schools as LECOM average around a 3.2 gpa. I have heard of people getting into DO programs with a 3.2 gpa and a 21 on the MCAT. I am by no means knocking DO because I am considering it as an option myself, but your stats are a little off.

 

[Sommy]

Of filling prescriptions at Walgreen's?

Interesting......

Don't forget that the most important part of their job is to catch physicians' mess ups with drug interactions/contra-indications. They are very educated and have much respect from me,at least.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Don't forget that the most important part of their job is to catch physicians' mess ups with drug interactions/contra-indications. They are very educated and have much respect from me,at least.

Perhaps, but they play an extremely lesser role in patient care.

 

[trustwomen]

Second a lot of people work a full time job and attend school full time, so it's not foreign to everyone (including myself...but add in a husband and daughter that need attention to my equation). I don't think anyone said you might not be smart enough, I think people were questioning your motives and attitude. And as far as your telling other people to ground themselves to other people's realities is laughable. You seem to think that becuase you work and go to school part time you deserve special treatment...probably not going to happen so get over it.

This is true. Many people combined full-time work and school and did well (full-time school too, in my case) and you will be competing against them. Adcoms will not cut you as much slack as you seem to be cutting yourself...

I agree with the notion of grounding yourself in other people's realities, but OP, you need to ground yourself in the adcom's "realities" - and the "reality" that doing relatively poorly in a CC is not a good sign, especially when you ARE doing "the best you can" with a time crunch. From what I understand, the volume of study in medical school requires you to be able to juggle time like a pro and still do better than that. (I considered my job/school time crunch as "practice", not "temporary").

 

[AngryBaby]

I don't know where you are getting your stats from but a 3.5 is the average for MD, not DO. I'm not saying that DO is easy, but the mean is closer to around 3.3. Some schools, such as TCOM, have an average gpa of 3.5 but a lot of schools average between 3.2-3.4. You can also get into DO programs with a much lower MCAT than 25. Such schools as LECOM average around a 3.2 gpa. I have heard of people getting into DO programs with a 3.2 gpa and a 21 on the MCAT. I am by no means knocking DO because I am considering it as an option myself, but your stats are a little off.

Point taken. I was trying to give the guy an idea of the numbers he needed to be, score-wise, competitive at virtually all DO programs, not the minimums. Though my GPA estimate is probably a little high, I must admit. Turns out the kid's done absolutely no homework on the topic and doesn't know what he's talking about so I think the point is moot anyway.

 

[Revolver]

I don't know where you are getting your stats from but a 3.5 is the average for MD, not DO. I'm not saying that DO is easy, but the mean is closer to around 3.3. Some schools, such as TCOM, have an average gpa of 3.5 but a lot of schools average between 3.2-3.4. You can also get into DO programs with a much lower MCAT than 25. Such schools as LECOM average around a 3.2 gpa. I have heard of people getting into DO programs with a 3.2 gpa and a 21 on the MCAT. I am by no means knocking DO because I am considering it as an option myself, but your stats are a little off.

Take a look at this thread:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=280934

Notice how the average GPA of an accepted pre-pharm student is over 3.5, with over 80 on the PCAT. These are much higher stats than those on here who report they got accepted to DO school. Also notice that some students with 3.8 GPA and good PCAT scores got rejected from some pharm schools due to the sheer competition.

I definitley think MD school is harder to get into than pharm, but I think pharm is harder to get into than DO (only factoring GPA and test scores though).

 

[AngryBaby]

Take a look at this thread:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=280934

Notice how the average GPA of an accepted pre-pharm student is over 3.5, with over 80 on the PCAT. These are much higher stats than those on here who report they got accepted to DO school. Also notice that some students with 3.8 GPA and good PCAT scores got rejected from some pharm schools due to the sheer competition.

I definitley think MD school is harder to get into than pharm, but I think pharm is harder to get into than DO (only factoring GPA and test scores though).

Please thumb through a PCAT review book and then do the same for the MCAT and tell me what you think. I must say that if you just sit down and think about what you're saying you surely must realize...maybe not.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Take a look at this thread:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=280934

Notice how the average GPA of an accepted pre-pharm student is over 3.5, with over 80 on the PCAT. These are much higher stats than those on here who report they got accepted to DO school. Also notice that some students with 3.8 GPA and good PCAT scores got rejected from some pharm schools due to the sheer competition.

I definitley think MD school is harder to get into than pharm, but I think pharm is harder to get into than DO (only factoring GPA and test scores though).

I'm not sure how you can consider an average GPA to correlate with the difficulty of entering a particular school. This is because you do not have the range. It could be from 2.0-4.0, for all we know. In addition, since the PCAT is different than the MCAT, they cannot be compared.

Your assertion that it is more difficult to be admitted to a DO school than a Pharm school is based only upon a GPA statistic that is insignificant.

 

[theraball]

Take a look at this thread:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=280934

Notice how the average GPA of an accepted pre-pharm student is over 3.5, with over 80 on the PCAT. These are much higher stats than those on here who report they got accepted to DO school. Also notice that some students with 3.8 GPA and good PCAT scores got rejected from some pharm schools due to the sheer competition.

I definitley think MD school is harder to get into than pharm, but I think pharm is harder to get into than DO (only factoring GPA and test scores though).

Hi, Revolver,

I would respectfully disagree with your conclusion; Osteopathic medical schools are difficult to get into and are getting harder each year, as D.O. education becomes more recognized as equivalent to M.D. Many who 20 years ago would have shunned D.O. as an "inferior" education with fewer options than M.D. today are viewing D.O. as a near-equivalent to M.D. Demand is rising and D.O. schools are getting more competitive.

That said, it is easier in terms of GPA and MCAT scores to enter D.O. school, but that doesn't mean it's easy. They are going to scrutinize you just as thoroughly as at any M.D. school and in fact because they tend to look at "the whole person" you'd better be able to show some real commitment to medicine in general and osteopathy in particular. For example, you should understand what osteopathic manipulation is; they will ask you about it at the interview. It's not going to be a cake walk to get into D.O. school, and you can't fake your way in; well probably some can but they better be expert at faking it.

And once you're in, it's not a garden of roses. Two brutal years of basic science followed by two brutal years of clinical rotations followed by at least three years of 80 hour weeks in residency. There is no difference between D.O. schools and M.D. schools in terms of the academic requirements, which are much more stringent than what PharmD programs put you through. You should really know what you're getting into.

PharmD programs are the prevalent form of pharmacy education today; they call it "doctor of pharmacy" and it is a more competitive program than it was a few years ago. There is nothing wrong with becoming a PharmD; it's a shorter path to a respectable and highly paid health care career, you work with people, and you certainly are learning and doing much more than cutting pills at a Walgreens as someone put it (in jest, I hope). PharmD's that I know do some of their training in a teaching hospital, rounding on patients as part of the medical team; they work with physicians and other caregivers and play an important role. It's a great job market right now, too; the pharmacy magazine I read was full of job ads for starting salaries of $80K+ all over the Midwest, plus signing bonuses of $10K and up. Reminds me of the dot-com boom.

As others have said, you should go into this with your eyes open; try to meet with a D.O. and find out about the field, and read the information at the AOA website. Good luck!

Therapy Ball

 

[It'sElectric]

In particular, try doing a little research here.... http://www.osteopathic.org/index.cfm?PageID=ost_becomedo

 

[Raven Feather]

I don't know where you are getting your stats from but a 3.5 is the average for MD, not DO. I'm not saying that DO is easy, but the mean is closer to around 3.3. Some schools, such as TCOM, have an average gpa of 3.5 but a lot of schools average between 3.2-3.4. You can also get into DO programs with a much lower MCAT than 25. Such schools as LECOM average around a 3.2 gpa. I have heard of people getting into DO programs with a 3.2 gpa and a 21 on the MCAT. I am by no means knocking DO because I am considering it as an option myself, but your stats are a little off.

Not ALL DO schools are that low those states/schools you mentioned are a few programs--same happens for MD schools. I guess that is why people apply broadly. Gotta get in where you fit in. Here's a link to compare averages, some MD schools, actually, a lot are in par with many DO schools average for anyone who is curious: www.mcattestscores.com/usmedicalschoolsmcatscoresGPA.html

To the OP: Yes some schools state the min. req. to get a secondary is a 2.75, but if anyone has gotten in with that low of a GPA, consider yourself lucky. It is not the norm. They have no problem taking your money for a secondary with such a low GPA and rejecting your butt soon after. I interviewed at my State MD school whose minimum to apply was a 3.2 and a 22 MCAT BUT the average matriculants stats were much highter, 3.6+ and 30 MCAT. Take minimums with a grain of salt. With a 3.2 gpa and a good MCAT score, there shouldn't be much of a problem if everything else is straight.

But I'm gonna have to agree with some of the other posters, I'm not sure you really know what you want in the medical field.

One more thing, a friend gave me practice PCAT book along with some other MCAT materials and I'm not trying to bash the PCAT but from what I saw, I would take that test over the MCAT anyday.

 

[scpod]

To the OP: Yes some schools state the min. req. to get a secondary is a 2.75, but if anyone has gotten in with that low of a GPA, consider yourself lucky. It is not the norm.

Not that it's really needed, but I'll have to say that you hit it right on the money. There are programs that have minimums at 2.75, but they have NEVER actually accepted people with a 2.75. There are schools that say you can be accepted with only 90 hours and no degree, but they have NEVER actually accepted anybody with 90 hours. There are schools that have an out-of-state tuition fee posted, but they have NEVER accepted anyone from out-of-state.

MCAT and GPA are simply ways to weed people out without having to go to the trouble of interviewing them. Every school has much more than the number of applications it actually needs to choose the next year's class. Yes, they often interview people who have below-average stats, but that doesn't mean that they will accept them.

 

[NonTradMed]

You can't compare MCAT to PCAT. Peruse over the two exams (I did) and then come back and say that the two exams are comparable. As for GPA, I'll let someone more knowledgable with both DO and pharm schools to compare the two.

Also, don't compare minimals and assume that's standard. My state's MD school requires a minimum of 22 MCAT and 3.2 GPA to get an interview but the average matriculant has 30 MCAT and 3.7 GPA so....minimals can be misleading.

 

[NewNick]

Take a look at this thread:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=280934

Notice how the average GPA of an accepted pre-pharm student is over 3.5, with over 80 on the PCAT. These are much higher stats than those on here who report they got accepted to DO school. Also notice that some students with 3.8 GPA and good PCAT scores got rejected from some pharm schools due to the sheer competition.

I definitley think MD school is harder to get into than pharm, but I think pharm is harder to get into than DO (only factoring GPA and test scores though).

According to your link, I can see that GPA makes up for PCAT and vice versa. Notice, there are only a few people posting their stats. It may imply that those people with high stats have no problem with showing their numbers.

Did you really do the homework in term of learning about the process of application for pharm schools and learn about those schools ? I heard from some of my former friends that there are some of pharm schools don't require PCAT (at least I know for sure one in Louisiana). Not every pharm school requires high PCAT or GPA. It's all about demand and supply.

From my former friends, pharm schools don't require a BS or BA degree, but since it's getting more competitive, it becomes unwritten rule. So, you think just base on your GPA in Comm College that you can get into a pharm school ? You may think that the adcom doesn't care about what school you came from, but they know the simple rule: a 3.5 GPA in a crappy school is not better than a 3.3 in a well-known school. That's why they have standadized tests such as PCAT to weed out some people.

My friend, I suggest you to read anything in SDN with grain of salt, especially when you're thinking of using this place for research or survey. If your stats are not strong enough for MD schools, then you only have 23 schools for DO so far. If you're strong enough for pharm schools, you'll have a lot more schools, meaning more chance. Don't forget that PCAT and MCAT are two different animals. Here is a true story:

Student A hates Physics too much. He raises his hand in Phys class and asks:
- Prof, why do med schools require Physics in MCAT ? (mumble: "this stupid class")

Professor:
- Because they want to weed out stupid students.
- 😱 ??????

FYI, MCAT has Physics.

 

[NonTradMed]

Take a look at this thread:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=280934

Notice how the average GPA of an accepted pre-pharm student is over 3.5, with over 80 on the PCAT. These are much higher stats than those on here who report they got accepted to DO school. Also notice that some students with 3.8 GPA and good PCAT scores got rejected from some pharm schools due to the sheer competition.

I definitley think MD school is harder to get into than pharm, but I think pharm is harder to get into than DO (only factoring GPA and test scores though).

I know you haven't been on SDN for too long, so you probably didn't have time to learn that SDN is NOT a good gauge of 'average' scores of any kind. When you ask people to self-report their numbers, top scores will be overreported. I noticed this was particularly true in the pre-allo and MCAT forums where people are asked about what their stats were....gee, that's an awfully lot of 35+ people, you'd think that was the average score, not 25. A better way to figure out how hard it is to get into pharmarcy vs. DO schools would be to call up a few schools and ask. Annoymous posters on a forum do not make a scientific pool for how 'difficult' it is to get into school. Actually, you could try an experiment of a sort: start a thread asking people what their stats were to get into DO schools in this forum and do the same in the pharm forum and see whose BS meter is higher. 😀

 

[NewNick]

I definitley think MD school is harder to get into than pharm, but I think pharm is harder to get into than DO (only factoring GPA and test scores though).

MD is easier than PhamD. Check this out.

http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?myid=5778

I hope you'll see my point. Critical thinking. That's all about MCAT. Wait ..... you haven't seen it yet.

 

[clc8503]

Not ALL DO schools are that low those states/schools you mentioned are a few programs--same happens for MD schools. I guess that is why people apply broadly. Gotta get in where you fit in. Here's a link to compare averages, some MD schools, actually, a lot are in par with many DO schools average for anyone who is curious: www.mcattestscores.com/usmedicalschoolsmcatscoresGPA.html

To the OP: Yes some schools state the min. req. to get a secondary is a 2.75, but if anyone has gotten in with that low of a GPA, consider yourself lucky. It is not the norm. They have no problem taking your money for a secondary with such a low GPA and rejecting your butt soon after. I interviewed at my State MD school whose minimum to apply was a 3.2 and a 22 MCAT BUT the average matriculants stats were much highter, 3.6+ and 30
MCAT. Take minimums with a grain of salt. With a 3.2 gpa and a good MCAT score, there shouldn't be much of a problem if everything else is straight.

But I'm gonna have to agree with some of the other posters, I'm not sure you really know what you want in the medical field.

One more thing, a friend gave me practice PCAT book along with some other MCAT materials and I'm not trying to bash the PCAT but from what I saw, I would take that test over the MCAT anyday.

I hate to break it to you there buddy but my stats are pretty much dead on. Yes, DO is competative, but it's not quite up there with MD (it's close though). True, there are some state MD schools that are easier to get into. However, state schools are always the exception,and they're not even always easy to get into. For instance, my state school averages a 3.6 and a 29 on the MCAT. Let me put it to you like this, if someone has a 3.6 or higher they probally would not go DO unless they were die hard osteopathy, because even though DO is great, MD is just more recognized (It's by no means better), it just gives the student a better chance at specializing because DO slots for speacity training is limited......very limited. For instance, try matching ortho, or plastics as a DO. It can be done, but it's more difficult, and although I have the deepest respect for DO's, I would be extremely naive to to say that everyone else in society felt the same way as you and I. Anyways, that's why MD is more competative, people just don't want to deal with all of stuff if they don't have to. Once again I am not anti-DO, your statements were just a little off, so I thought I would correct them. There are a few DO programs that avr. 3.5 but I think you can count them on one hand and still have fingers left over.

Here is what the AACOM's website had to say (I'm sure they are very accurate)
http://www.aacom.org/data/cib/04-requirements.html

Here are two other random sites that back up my statements:
http://www.ithaca.edu/biology/premed_faq.html#osteoscore
http://cc.camden.rutgers.edu/PreparingforMedicalSchool.html

 

[OSUdoc08]

MD is easier than PhamD. Check this out.

http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?myid=5778

I hope you'll see my point. Critical thinking. That's all about MCAT. Wait ..... you haven't seen it yet.

1. That profile is fake.

2. No, it isn't easier.

3. What IS your point?

 

[It'sElectric]

I hate to break it to you there buddy but my stats are pretty much dead on. Yes, DO is competative, but it's not quite up there with MD (it's close though). True, there are some state MD schools that are easier to get into. However, state schools are always the exception,and they're not even always easy to get into. For instance, my state school averages a 3.6 and a 29 on the MCAT. Let me put it to you like this, if someone has a 3.6 or higher they probally would not go DO unless they were die hard osteopathy, because even though DO is great, MD is just more recognized (It's by no means better), it just gives the student a better chance at specializing because DO slots for speacity training is limited......very limited. For instance, try matching ortho, or plastics as a DO. It can be done, but it's more difficult, and although I have the deepest respect for DO's, I would be extremely naive to to say that everyone else in society felt the same way as you and I. Anyways, that's why MD is more competative, people just don't want to deal with all of stuff if they don't have to. Once again I am not anti-DO, your statements were just a little off, so I thought I would correct them. There are a few DO programs that avr. 3.5 but I think you can count them on one hand and still have fingers left over.

Here is what the AACOM's website had to say (I'm sure they are very accurate)
http://www.aacom.org/data/cib/04-requirements.html

Here are two other random sites that back up my statements:
http://www.ithaca.edu/biology/premed_faq.html#osteoscore
http://cc.camden.rutgers.edu/PreparingforMedicalSchool.html

If you had read the AACOM link a little more closely that you supplied, you would see that those GPA and MCAT averages were for all applicants. It says right afterwards that matriculated students' scores are generally higher than the overall application pool (which is what they were reporting).

 

[NewNick]

1. That profile is fake.

2. No, it isn't easier.

3. What IS your point?

Cool down, my friend. I know that it's fake because I made it. I just want him/her to know that he/she can't rely on those freaking stats and take it as an absolute truth. 🙂)

 

[OSUdoc08]

Cool down, my friend. I know that it's fake because I made it. I just want him/her to know that he/she can't rely on those freaking stats and take it as an absolute truth. 🙂)

Why would you make a fake profile? Do you not have any friends?

 

[dr.z]

Why would you make a fake profile? Do you not have any friends?

He is a nice guy, and I know he has friends.

 

[OSUdoc08]

He is a nice guy, and I know he has friends.

Hmm....There must be some other reason one would make a false profile......baffling............

 

[Raven Feather]

I hate to break it to you there buddy but my stats are pretty much dead on. Yes, DO is competative, but it's not quite up there with MD (it's close though). True, there are some state MD schools that are easier to get into. However, state schools are always the exception,and they're not even always easy to get into. For instance, my state school averages a 3.6 and a 29 on the MCAT. Let me put it to you like this, if someone has a 3.6 or higher they probally would not go DO unless they were die hard osteopathy, because even though DO is great, MD is just more recognized (It's by no means better), it just gives the student a better chance at specializing because DO slots for speacity training is limited......very limited. For instance, try matching ortho, or plastics as a DO. It can be done, but it's more difficult, and although I have the deepest respect for DO's, I would be extremely naive to to say that everyone else in society felt the same way as you and I. Anyways, that's why MD is more competative, people just don't want to deal with all of stuff if they don't have to. Once again I am not anti-DO, your statements were just a little off, so I thought I would correct them. There are a few DO programs that avr. 3.5 but I think you can count them on one hand and still have fingers left over.

Here is what the AACOM's website had to say (I'm sure they are very accurate)
http://www.aacom.org/data/cib/04-requirements.html

Here are two other random sites that back up my statements:
http://www.ithaca.edu/biology/premed_faq.html#osteoscore
http://cc.camden.rutgers.edu/PreparingforMedicalSchool.html

Respectfully, I'm not a buddy. But please read carefully from AACOM webiste:

Admission to osteopathic medical school is competitive. For the 2005 application cycle, the average MCAT scores were 7.96 verbal, 7.77 physical and 8.32 biology. The average overall
grade point average was 3.38 and the average science grade point average was 3.25. Generally, MCAT scores and grade point averages are slightly higher for matriculating students than scores reported for the overall applicant pool.

Those are averages of all those who APPLIED not ACCEPTED. It is best that you compare school to school stats because they vary. I'm not going to get into an arguing match, but there are several MD schools with low 3.ish and 24-27ish MCAT scores. I don't recall that I ever said your stats weren't right on or not. Guess I'm gonna have to reread. By the way, my overall GPA was a 3.76, and a 3.75 sci--those were with my 1st and 2cnd degree combined. I maintained a 4.0 with the 2cnd. I wasn't a die hard DO or MD in all honesty. My MCAT wasn't great but I didn't feel the need to retake if I could get in a med schoo. So here I am. But I guess, I could be in the minority if your claim, is in fact, true.

 

[USArmyDoc]

Respectfully, I'm not a buddy. But please read carefully from AACOM webiste:

Admission to osteopathic medical school is competitive. For the 2005 application cycle, the average MCAT scores were 7.96 verbal, 7.77 physical and 8.32 biology. The average overall
grade point average was 3.38 and the average science grade point average was 3.25. Generally, MCAT scores and grade point averages are slightly higher for matriculating students than scores reported for the overall applicant pool.

Those are averages of all those who APPLIED not ACCEPTED. It is best that you compare school to school stats because they vary. I'm not going to get into an arguing match, but there are several MD schools with low 3.ish and 24-27ish MCAT scores. I don't recall that I ever said your stats weren't right on or not. Guess I'm gonna have to reread. By the way, my overall GPA was a 3.76, and a 3.75 sci--those were with my 1st and 2cnd degree combined. I maintained a 4.0 with the 2cnd. I wasn't a die hard DO or MD in all honesty. My MCAT wasn't great but I didn't feel the need to retake if I could get in a med schoo. So here I am. But I guess, I could be in the minority if your claim, is in fact, true.

Good pt Raven. They have to be significantly higher than the average of the whole applicant pool.

 

[scpod]

Let me put it to you like this, if someone has a 3.6 or higher they probally would not go DO unless they were die hard osteopathy...

You're being way to general here, and you can't have evidence for that statement. I had a 3.94 overall, 4.0 science. I was not die-hard osteopathy. I just fell in love with the school I picked during the interview. It was almost totally about the school, not osteopathy. However, I have two friends who are DOs. Both are orthopaedic surgeons. They did have some influence because each of them wanted me to attend their respective alma maters, but I didn't either of them. I looked at them, and didn't like them. It wasn't about osteopathy; it was about the particular schools. I don't find it hard to believe that there are other people who would make a similar choice.

MD is just more recognized (It's by no means better), it just gives the student a better chance at specializing because DO slots for speacity training is limited......very limited. For instance, try matching ortho, or plastics as a DO.

Ummmm...ortho and plastics are pretty damned hard for MDs to match into as well. Having an MD after your name doesn't make it easier. Only the top MDs get those residencies, just like only the top DOs get those residencies. Keep in mind, though, that I already know DOs who practice ortho, so I know it can be done.

 

[It'sElectric]

Good pt Raven. They have to be significantly higher than the average of the whole applicant pool.

OK, I know I"m bitching here a bit, but I pointed this out before Raven, but no one even seemed to notice. Scroll up just a few posts, and I mention (not as overtly, but I point it out).

Haha...Just being a pain in the arse, but I thought I deserved a little respect.