Do I have the aptitude for Pathology?

[rrreagan]

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I like working by myself, like working from a desk, llike being autonomous, not dependent on nurses, techs or ancillary stuff, and like setting my own working hrs.

I DON'T particularly like dealing with gross specimens....

By the way, these days, do most pathologists use microscopes---or can one use auto-magnifiers/projectors to put the images up on a big screen?

I personally would prefer dealing with an auto-magnifier/big screen vs a traditional microscope. Is that an option?

Future income is also a consideration----how much can I make? Local pathologists tell me 300-500K is not unreasonable, but that other cities [Denver, San Diego] are saturated and that one would be lucky to clear 100-150 in those locales, assuming one can even get a job there....

Finally, is there some kind of aptitude test I could take for Pathology?

Lastly, my Step scores are 205, 204, and 200. I'm a US grad and have completed a Transitional yr. Am I competitive? What do I need to do to get in?

Given my likes and dislikes, what other professions are good for me? I don't like procedures. Other careers I could pursue are Fam Med, Neurology or Preventive Medicine.... I like Radiology and PM&R as well but they are probably too competitive for me.

 

[bananaface]

Hi,

I'm a US graduate of an MD school in LA.

Have a 205 and 207 on STeps 1 and 2.

Why the difference? 😕

 

[rrreagan]

Why the difference? 😕

Typo.... 204.

 

[LADoc00]

I like working by myself, like working from a desk, llike being autonomous, not dependent on nurses, techs or ancillary stuff, and like setting my own working hrs.

I DON'T particularly like dealing with gross specimens....

By the way, these days, do most pathologists use microscopes---or can one use auto-magnifiers/projectors to put the images up on a big screen?

I personally would prefer dealing with an auto-magnifier/big screen vs a traditional microscope. Is that an option?

Future income is also a consideration----how much can I make? Local pathologists tell me 300-500K is not unreasonable, but that other cities [Denver, San Diego] are saturated and that one would be lucky to clear 100-150 in those locales, assuming one can even get a job there....

Finally, is there some kind of aptitude test I could take for Pathology?

Lastly, my Step scores are 205, 204, and 200. I'm a US grad and have completed a Transitional yr. Am I competitive? What do I need to do to get in?

Given my likes and dislikes, what other professions are good for me? I don't like procedures. Other careers I could pursue are Fam Med, Neurology or Preventive Medicine.... I like Radiology and PM&R as well but they are probably too competitive for me.

Im gonna keep it simple and short. No.

Thanks for coming out.

 

[rrreagan]

Im gonna keep it simple and short. No.

Thanks for coming out.

Care to elaborate [as to why you think I'm unsuited for Pathology]?

 

[LADoc00]

Care to elaborate [as to why you think I'm unsuited for Pathology]?

First off I am a Pathologist and I typically charge 150 bucks/hr for my consultation services. Secondly, just the tone of your post says "no" to me.

For you I can suggest a host of different fields because I think I know where you are coming from and I have friends in every speciality.

1.) Rads - very competitive to get into though and unless you are sporting a top 5 med school MD, your board scores arent likely to cut it. But do research, spend a year doing some suck up project. It would be worth your time, trust me.
2.) Anes. aka Gas - not very competitive, lots of options after graduation especially in pain management. I almost did this, sometimes wish I did.
3.) Nuclear Med - very cool
4.) Management - people dont realize you can do a internship then get a MBA and make more $ than ANYONE.
5.) Optho Retina - crazy $, just crazy. My best friend from undergrad who stayed in my apartment for free b/c he was a broke a$$ mutha is now getting paid serious bank, he just bought a 911 Carrera Turbo.

This one is free, next one will cost ya.

 

[bananaface]

Ooh. Can you spank my ass too?

Since you charge $2.50/minute, my quarter will get me 6 seconds of spanking, right? I tried to call Miss Cleo, but she had some 5 minute minimum thing going on. 🙄

 

[b&ierstiefel]

5.) Optho Retina - crazy $, just crazy. My best friend from undergrad who stayed in my apartment for free b/c he was a broke a$$ mutha is now getting paid serious bank, he just bought a 911 Carrera Turbo.

dude, are you talkin about ehsan here?

 

[LADoc00]

Ooh. Can you spank my ass too?

Since you charge $2.50/minute, my quarter will get me 6 seconds of spanking, right? I tried to call Miss Cleo, but she had some 5 minute minimum thing going on. 🙄

I will spank you ass for free.

150 bucks an hour is friggin cheap! Lobbyists in DC charge the government upwards of 400 bucks an hour and often have nothing more than a bachelor's from University of Phoenix.

 

[bananaface]

I will spank you ass for free.

150 bucks an hour is friggin cheap! Lobbyists in DC charge the government upwards of 400 bucks an hour and often have nothing more than a bachelor's from University of Phoenix.

You're such a cheap date! 😍

Afterwards I'll buy you something from a dollar menu, ok?

911's are ugly I think. I like Boxsters more. But then, I am a girl. My car must have hips!

 

[Leukocyte]

LADoc00, I like your attitude. 😎

 

[rrreagan]

First off I am a Pathologist and I typically charge 150 bucks/hr for my consultation services. Secondly, just the tone of your post says "no" to me.

For you I can suggest a host of different fields because I think I know where you are coming from and I have friends in every speciality.

1.) Rads - very competitive to get into though and unless you are sporting a top 5 med school MD, your board scores arent likely to cut it. But do research, spend a year doing some suck up project. It would be worth your time, trust me.
2.) Anes. aka Gas - not very competitive, lots of options after graduation especially in pain management. I almost did this, sometimes wish I did.
3.) Nuclear Med - very cool


Is their any scope for Nuc Med?

Every Nuc Med physician I've spoken tells me that there is very little demand for straight Nuc Med....

 

[LADoc00]

Every Nuc Med physician I've spoken tells me that there is very little demand for straight Nuc Med....

They are LIARS b/c they dont want you muscling in on their phat loots. Nuc Med has tons of angles to make cash.

 

[bananaface]

I hear that's what the researchers say too. 😎

 

[yaah]

As for projecting slides on a screen...have you ever seen this? It may be easier on your eyes (maybe) but your diagnostic abilities go down. Projection screens are useful for demonstrating diagnostic areas to groups of people. You wouldn't believe the stuff you miss on a screen that you can see under the scope.

 

[rrreagan]

As for projecting slides on a screen...have you ever seen this? It may be easier on your eyes (maybe) but your diagnostic abilities go down. Projection screens are useful for demonstrating diagnostic areas to groups of people. You wouldn't believe the stuff you miss on a screen that you can see under the scope.

But don't you make most of the diagnoses at low-magnification?

 

[LADoc00]

But don't you make most of the diagnoses at low-magnification?

FFS the short answer is no. You need to look through the microscopic as even the greatest LCD Plasma Display HDTV super screens have no where near the resolution you have on scope optics.

 

[yaah]

But don't you make most of the diagnoses at low-magnification?

You caught us. It's all really easy and we are just fooling ourselves by using antiquated microscopes.

SOME diagnoses can be made a low power (lots of prostate CA, for example) but you don't want to depend on this.

This is part of the reason I am cheesed off that so many med schools seem to be moving away from (and students aren't objecting because hey, it must be easier and plus you don't get headaches! 🙄 ) using histo and path labs using microscopes. Instead, they are going to projection systems because they just want everyone to be able to see the main points and know it for board exams. God help us all if someone actually wants to learn something.

 

[rrreagan]

You caught us. It's all really easy and we are just fooling ourselves by using antiquated microscopes.

SOME diagnoses can be made a low power (lots of prostate CA, for example) but you don't want to depend on this.

This is part of the reason I am cheesed off that so many med schools seem to be moving away from (and students aren't objecting because hey, it must be easier and plus you don't get headaches! 🙄 ) using histo and path labs using microscopes. Instead, they are going to projection systems because they just want everyone to be able to see the main points and know it for board exams. God help us all if someone actually wants to learn something.

What is so inherently pleasurable about using a microscope? If you went to watch a movie, would you want to see it on big screen or under a scope?

 

[gungho]

What is so inherently pleasurable about using a microscope? If you went to watch a movie, would you want to see it on big screen or under a scope?

Oh, definitely under a scope, no question.

 

[rrreagan]

Oh, definitely under a scope, no question.

So how do I know that microscopy is for me?

I'm doing a Path rotation in June,if that helps.

 

[bananaface]

Oh, definitely under a scope, no question.

It's hotter when the scope is on top. 😉

 

[quant]

It's hotter when the scope is on top. 😉

are all pharmacists as hot as you?....

 

[bananaface]

are all pharmacists as hot as you?....

Yeah. I dunno if that's good or bad.

 

[beary]

Oh, definitely under a scope, no question.

I will only watch a movie if I can watch it under the scope. For date movies it is best if the scopes are facing each other and not side by side.

 

[quant]

I will only watch a movie if I can watch it under the scope. For date movies it is best if the scopes are facing each other and not side by side.

Ah a romantic!!!

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Ah a romantic!!!

i think i'm gonna hurl.

 

[beary]

i think i'm gonna hurl.

Well, in that case it would be better if the scopes were side by side.

 

[bananaface]

Well, in that case it would be better if the scopes were side by side.

It depends on whether he projectile vomits or leans to the side first. 😛

 

[yaah]

What is so inherently pleasurable about using a microscope? If you went to watch a movie, would you want to see it on big screen or under a scope?

A movie is not a histopath slide. Do you want the best resolution possible so that you can see the subtleties? Or do you want a reproduction of it? Maybe someday projections will be just as good. But not now.

 

[deschutes]

This is part of the reason I am cheesed off that so many med schools seem to be moving away from (and students aren't objecting because hey, it must be easier and plus you don't get headaches! 🙄 ) using histo and path labs using microscopes. Instead, they are going to projection systems because they just want everyone to be able to see the main points and know it for board exams.

I'm with you here.

I suspect part of the reason students aren't objecting is because they didn't learn it any other way but highlighted and projected on a screen (voice of experience). And even then many can't figure it out. 😉

Class sizes are also getting bigger, and infrastructure is not keeping up.

This student-centred learning thing sounds great in theory, but students can't know what's important without hindsight. That's why we have teachers!

I think this shift is going to widen the gap between clinical medicine and pathology. Yes - clinical experience is going to make us all better pathologists. But communication is a two-way street and if a clinician never had to look down the eyepieces of a microscope in med school and see how different anatomy looks on a real glass slide as opposed to in a labelled atlas, how can they possibly understand what a pathology consultation can or cannot do?

 

[deschutes]

What is so inherently pleasurable about using a microscope? If you went to watch a movie, would you want to see it on big screen or under a scope?

rrreagan, do you wear glasses? Would you want to read fine print without them?

Pleasure and necessity are intertwined 😉

~
When project a picture on a screen, you are just taking individual pixels and enlarging them into static colour blocks.

When you magnify an object however, you can have infinite detail to the limits of resolution of the microscope.

 

[yaah]

I suspect part of the reason students aren't objecting is because they didn't learn it any other way but highlighted and projected on a screen (voice of experience). And even then many can't figure it out. 😉

We also have to make sure everyone gets their required 8 billion hours of being told about ethnic differences in health care delivery and perception.

Oh, and the physical exam!

Yes, that was sarcasm!

 

[b&ierstiefel]

We also have to make sure everyone gets their required 8 billion hours of being told about ethnic differences in health care delivery and perception.

hey! that ****'s important. my people have specific health care needs! (i think i just opened up the door to wiseass comments).

 

[yaah]

hey! that ****'s important. my people have specific health care needs! (i think i just opened up the door to wiseass comments).

My people have healthcare needs too. But I would rather have the doctor who knows what leukemia is and how to diagnose it rather than the one who knows how to drape properly.

 

[beary]

My people have healthcare needs too. But I would rather have the doctor who knows what leukemia is and how to diagnose it rather than the one who knows how to drape properly.

But what is really important is that you know the proper ways to drape each of the distinct ethnic groups. For example, I think Andy's people like to have some level of modesty. They also are not particularly fond of painful procedures. 🙄

 

[bananaface]

Who does like painful procedures? Is there an S&M ethnicity I don't know about?

 

[beary]

Who does like painful procedures? Is there an S&M ethnicity I don't know about?

I know. I was being sarcastic. These are the kinds of things they tell you in med school with a straight face.

Africans - don't like pain
Asians - them neither
Muslims - nope, they really don't
Europeans - not a huge fan of painful stuff

I think basically what is important is being respectful to everybody. No matter what ethnicity people are they want to be treated with respect, want modesty, are afraid of pain and discomfort, etc.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

I think basically what is important is being respectful to everybody. No matter what ethnicity people are they want to be treated with respect, want modesty, are afraid of pain and discomfort, etc.

I find it funny that med schools have to teach this in the form of classes and small groups. It's like trying to force dinguses to have compassion.

 

[bananaface]

I find it funny that med schools have to teach this in the form of classes and small groups. It's like trying to force dinguses to have compassion.

hey someone named "registered user" swiped your avatar.

 

[rrreagan]

I find it funny that med schools have to teach this in the form of classes and small groups. It's like trying to force dinguses to have compassion.

Hey,

Quit hijacking the thread....

All I want to know is whether is Pathology is for me or not.

Whoever magnified that snow flake made an excellent point.

Will a 1-month rotation in Path let me know whether Path is for me or not?

 

[beary]

Will a 1-month rotation in Path let me know whether Path is for me or not?

I don't know if a one month rotation in anything tells you whether it's for you or not. I am sure that with any field a med school rotation isn't the same as what it is like for a career. So I think it just comes down to a gut decision.

 

[RyMcQ]

Sorry. Late coming to the conversation.

Regarding low-mag diagnoses: High resolution still comes into play at low-magnification. And if I could get a movie at 10 or 20 times HDTV resolution, I would definitely rather watch the movie under the scope.

I like working by myself, like working from a desk, llike being autonomous, not dependent on nurses, techs or ancillary stuff, and like setting my own working hrs.

I DON'T particularly like dealing with gross specimens....

Based on these criteria, you will not like path. You can't be completely autonomous. (Unless, of course, you: do the biopsy yourself, fill out the clinical history, gross in the tissue, run the processor, embed the tissue, cut and stain the slides, look at the micro, type up the report, and call the patient with the results.) You will most definitely have to depend on techs, and you will have to work with other people. The idea that pathologists don't have to be "people people" is just bunk. Let's see how effective you are without an open dialogue with the clinicians that send you specimens.

I'm with LADoc00 (rest his soul) on this: There is something in your attitude that portends disaster. I guess I have known a few residents with similar attitudes, and they have generally not done well (i.e., not team players, do the minimum work to get by, etc.) If you do decide to go into path, I suggest that you get these attitudes out of your system first.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Will a 1-month rotation in Path let me know whether Path is for me or not?

Yes, it can. It's not just pathology where a one month rotation can yield great insight into a field that meshes well with you.

But let me ask you a serious question...are you interested in getting a pathology position because you're interested in pathology...or because you think that's the path of least resistance for you? From reading your previous posts on this thread, I don't really think you're all that interested in pathology.

In any case, I hope that one month rotation clears things up for you.

 

[rrreagan]

Yes, it can. It's not just pathology where a one month rotation can yield great insight into a field that meshes well with you.

But let me ask you a serious question...are you interested in getting a pathology position because you're interested in pathology...or because you think that's the path of least resistance for you? From reading your previous posts on this thread, I don't really think you're all that interested in pathology.

In any case, I hope that one month rotation clears things up for you.

=-=============================================
I don't know----Nothing else in Medicine with the exception of Radiology is all that compelling to me....

Of course i'm willing to work hard to do well in Path.

I'm just worried that I may not be a good microscopist, which seems to be the most important ingredient to the job.

How can I tell if Path is right for me?

I do have a number of good qualities---I'm a voracious reader [mainly non-medical] and generally pick up things very quickly.

Personality wise, I wouldn't miss patient care [not that I mind it terribly] and I'm not intent on doing procedural medicine.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

=-=============================================
I don't know----Nothing else in Medicine with the exception of Radiology is all that compelling to me....

Of course i'm willing to work hard to do well in Path.

I'm just worried that I may not be a good microscopist, which seems to be the most important ingredient to the job.

How can I tell if Path is right for me?

I do have a number of good qualities---I'm a voracious reader [mainly non-medical] and generally pick up things very quickly.

Personality wise, I wouldn't miss patient care [not that I mind it terribly] and I'm not intent on doing procedural medicine.

Well, that's a tough one. But you know, microscopy skillz aren't the end all be all in pathology. Pathology has so many sub-disciplines where you can concentrate your efforts. Maybe you would want to manage a lab and mainly do CP stuff. You could specialize in blood banking/transfusion medicine, clinical microbiology, molecular diagnostics (which is really up and coming these days).

Have you had a lot of experience with microscopy? I'll be honest in saying that before I got into science, I thought my microscopy skills were poor. But as I got more experience with it, I got incrementally better at it. Maybe that'll be the case for you.

I dunno if there's some aptitude test which will serve as some kind of fountain of wisdom that will reveal to you whether you'll be a good or bad microscopist. It's just one of those things where you just gotta do it and develop a feel for it.

 

[rrreagan]

Sorry. Late coming to the conversation.

Regarding low-mag diagnoses: High resolution still comes into play at low-magnification. And if I could get a movie at 10 or 20 times HDTV resolution, I would definitely rather watch the movie under the scope.



Based on these criteria, you will not like path. You can't be completely autonomous. (Unless, of course, you: do the biopsy yourself, fill out the clinical history, gross in the tissue, run the processor, embed the tissue, cut and stain the slides, look at the micro, type up the report, and call the patient with the results.) You will most definitely have to depend on techs, and you will have to work with other people. The idea that pathologists don't have to be "people people" is just bunk. Let's see how effective you are without an open dialogue with the clinicians that send you specimens.

I'm with LADoc00 (rest his soul) on this: There is something in your attitude that portends disaster. I guess I have known a few residents with similar attitudes, and they have generally not done well (i.e., not team players, do the minimum work to get by, etc.) If you do decide to go into path, I suggest that you get these attitudes out of your system first.

============================================

You're missing the point. My comment was skewed by internship and my recent OB/GYN rotation----I had to sit around and wait 15 minutes for chaperones to do pelvic exams and so on.

All I'm saying is that Path and Radiology afford a greater degree of autonomy than most medical professions....

My question is whether I'll make a good pathologist and will like the job?

 

[rrreagan]

Well, that's a tough one. But you know, microscopy skillz aren't the end all be all in pathology. Pathology has so many sub-disciplines where you can concentrate your efforts. Maybe you would want to manage a lab and mainly do CP stuff. You could specialize in blood banking/transfusion medicine, clinical microbiology, molecular diagnostics (which is really up and coming these days).

Have you had a lot of experience with microscopy? I'll be honest in saying that before I got into science, I thought my microscopy skills were poor. But as I got more experience with it, I got incrementally better at it. Maybe that'll be the case for you.

No experience to speak of with microscopy....

 

[Brian Pavlovitz]

=-=============================================
I don't know----Nothing else in Medicine with the exception of Radiology is all that compelling to me....

Of course i'm willing to work hard to do well in Path.

I'm just worried that I may not be a good microscopist, which seems to be the most important ingredient to the job.

How can I tell if Path is right for me?

I do have a number of good qualities---I'm a voracious reader [mainly non-medical] and generally pick up things very quickly.

Personality wise, I wouldn't miss patient care [not that I mind it terribly] and I'm not intent on doing procedural medicine.

I think your rotation in June should help you decide. As far as microscopy is concerned, it really does take some getting used to. Back when I was a wee little lad in med tech school, I found that I really enjoyed doing white blood cell differentials (which basically involves nothing more than counting and classifying 100 white blood cells in a blood smear--usually 100, that is); something many of my fellow classmates found tedious. But I started to realize that I enjoyed it.

When in cytology school, some of the students had trouble at first with the large amount of microscopy that is required. Some complained of headaches and nausea, but mind you, we were pretty much at our scopes when not in lecture, and "scope time" was a good portion of the day. These symptoms left after about the first week or so.

Anyhow, I guess my point is that microscopy, while obviously an important part of Pathology, is not the end-all, as Andy stated. Microscopy has to be learned, just like everything else.

I think your rotation should serve you well. I also recommed our esteemed Dr. Coleman's weblog on pathology: www.pathdoc.blogspot.com He has wonderful information about how and why he decided on Pathology as a career, as well as interview tips. It's a great resource.

Good Luck!!!!