Do I need a backup?

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orthomyxostudent

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Charting outcomes 2020 shows DO students applying to anesthesia with a step 1 of 211-220 had a match rate of 44/60, step 1 of 221-230 59/75. Complex 551-6000 was 69/88. So you are looking at somewhere around a 75-80% match rate just based on Step 1 score, and that’s pre-COVID, pre-DO students not getting many interviews this year. 75-80% chances of matching would make me want to hedge my bets somehow. I’m not sure what the best backup for anesthesia is.

Also, and I mean this in the least confrontational way possible, but who decides what is a top 5 DO school? Because I have talked with people from at least 10 different DO’s schools that all say they go to a top 5 DO school.
 
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memdoctobe said:
Charting outcomes 2020 shows DO students applying to anesthesia with a step 1 of 211-220 had a match rate of 44/60, step 1 of 221-230 59/75. Complex 551-6000 was 69/88. So you are looking at somewhere around a 75-80% match rate just based on Step 1 score, and that’s pre-COVID, pre-DO students not getting many interviews this year. 75-80% chances of matching would make me want to hedge my bets somehow. I’m not sure what the best backup for anesthesia is.

Also, and I mean this in the least confrontational way possible, but who decides what is a top 5 DO school? Because I have talked with people from at least 10 different DO’s schools that all say they go to a top 5 DO school.
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What the hell? Who decides what a top 5 MD school is? How's this any different in our world?
 
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chocomorsel said:
What the hell? Who decides what a top 5 MD school is? How's this any different in our world?
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The vast majority of people are talking about the USNWR Medical School (Research) rankings when they refer to top 5 MD, top 20 MD, or whatever. You see medical students talk about it all the time online and in person. “I do/don’t go to top 20 MD, my step 1 is 2XX, etc, etc.” They are talking about USNWR because that’s the first thing that comes up in Google and is what people know from looking at undergrads when they are in high school. If people say “top 40” they usually mean “top 40 medical schools by NIH funding”, slightly more useful because Charting Outcomes reports the percent of students matched per speciality that come from (that definition of) a top 40 school.

Not sure why you are being so aggressive about something that is pretty much common knowledge. You could argue that these lists don’t mean s*** and their methodology is horrible, and I wouldn’t disagree with you on that. But these lists do exist and some people do pay attention to them, enough for it to matter.

My question was where is a similar list for DO’s? Seems like different DO’s have in mind a different set of top 5 DO schools. If you Google “top DO schools”, you just get a bunch of consulting websites promising that they can help you get into med school.
 
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orthomyxostudent said:
Considering my score, would I be screened out of some interviews?
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You will be. My program filters everyone < 230 regardless of DO/MD status. That doesn't mean that other programs won't take a look (obv based on the charting outcomes data). Who knows what next year will bring, we can only speculate. If you really want anesthesia, then apply to a **** ton of programs and even then, consider a backup.
 
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memdoctobe said:
The vast majority of people are talking about the USNWR Medical School (Research) rankings when they refer to top 5 MD, top 20 MD, or whatever. You see medical students talk about it all the time online and in person. “I do/don’t go to top 20 MD, my step 1 is 2XX, etc, etc.” They are talking about USNWR because that’s the first thing that comes up in Google and is what people know from looking at undergrads when they are in high school. If people say “top 40” they usually mean “top 40 medical schools by NIH funding”, slightly more useful because Charting Outcomes reports the percent of students matched per speciality that come from (that definition of) a top 40 school.

Not sure why you are being so aggressive about something that is pretty much common knowledge. You could argue that these lists don’t mean s*** and their methodology is horrible, and I wouldn’t disagree with you on that. But these lists do exist and some people do pay attention to them, enough for it to matter.

My question was where is a similar list for DO’s? Seems like different DO’s have in mind a different set of top 5 DO schools. If you Google “top DO schools”, you just get a bunch of consulting websites promising that they can help you get into med school.
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So what exactly is aggressive about my reply? Because I said what the hell? You have never heard that phrase before? That’s an aggressive phrase?
Your statement about not wanting to be confrontational and then following up with who decides what’s a top 5 school in the DO world because you have talked to DO students who all claim to be from top 5 schools comes off quite demeaning. Whether you meant it that way or not.
Hence my so called “aggressive” response.
 
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memdoctobe said:
Charting outcomes 2020 shows DO students applying to anesthesia with a step 1 of 211-220 had a match rate of 44/60, step 1 of 221-230 59/75. Complex 551-6000 was 69/88. So you are looking at somewhere around a 75-80% match rate just based on Step 1 score, and that’s pre-COVID, pre-DO students not getting many interviews this year. 75-80% chances of matching would make me want to hedge my bets somehow. I’m not sure what the best backup for anesthesia is.

Also, and I mean this in the least confrontational way possible, but who decides what is a top 5 DO school? Because I have talked with people from at least 10 different DO’s schools that all say they go to a top 5 DO school.
Click to expand...
That is also my concern because the charting outcomes were before covid and zoom interviews. I thought of it as the original 5 colleges such as PCOM, KCU, DMU. I could be very much in the wrongs about this.
 
memdoctobe said:
The vast majority of people are talking about the USNWR Medical School (Research) rankings when they refer to top 5 MD, top 20 MD, or whatever. You see medical students talk about it all the time online and in person. “I do/don’t go to top 20 MD, my step 1 is 2XX, etc, etc.” They are talking about USNWR because that’s the first thing that comes up in Google and is what people know from looking at undergrads when they are in high school. If people say “top 40” they usually mean “top 40 medical schools by NIH funding”, slightly more useful because Charting Outcomes reports the percent of students matched per speciality that come from (that definition of) a top 40 school.

Not sure why you are being so aggressive about something that is pretty much common knowledge. You could argue that these lists don’t mean s*** and their methodology is horrible, and I wouldn’t disagree with you on that. But these lists do exist and some people do pay attention to them, enough for it to matter.

My question was where is a similar list for DO’s? Seems like different DO’s have in mind a different set of top 5 DO schools. If you Google “top DO schools”, you just get a bunch of consulting websites promising that they can help you get into med school.
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That’s pretty tame for choco-licious. I’m in private practice. In my opinion it doesn’t matter where you went to med school. Or residency for that matter. To be ACGME accredited, a program has a minimum number of a plethora of cases. The goal is to far exceed these numbers in residency, but having that baseline will help build further expertise.

The real questions to be answered...1) are you competent and 2) if I’ve got to be on call with you for 24 hours, will I be able to work well with and count on you.

To OP, Contact PDs about your interest in their program and a desire to interview with them. apply broadly, zoom like you’ve never zoomed before. Ask to take a “2nd” look by traveling to that program with your N95. That will stand out as few will likely do it. It will cost time and money, but you’re turning over all the stones.
 
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Zoom video interviews for HCA community programs. If you have a medical degree, passing scores and a pulse you are competitive.
 
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D P356 said:
That’s pretty tame for choco-licious. I’m in private practice. In my opinion it doesn’t matter where you went to med school. Or residency for that matter. To be ACGME accredited, a program has a minimum number of a plethora of cases. The goal is to far exceed these numbers in residency, but having that baseline will help build further expertise.

The real questions to be answered...1) are you competent and 2) if I’ve got to be on call with you for 24 hours, will I be able to work well with and count on you.

To OP, Contact PDs about your interest in their program and a desire to interview with them. apply broadly, zoom like you’ve never zoomed before. Ask to take a “2nd” look by traveling to that program with your N95. That will stand out as few will likely do it. It will cost time and money, but you’re turning over all the stones.
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I plan on applying to every location that exists except California and the very high tiers. Thank you for the wonderful advice.
 
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Reveler said:
You will be. My program filters everyone < 230 regardless of DO/MD status. That doesn't mean that other programs won't take a look (obv based on the charting outcomes data). Who knows what next year will bring, we can only speculate. If you really want anesthesia, then apply to a **** ton of programs and even then, consider a backup.
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That is what I plan on pursuing and applying everywhere and praying for the best. Thank you!
 
  • MD or DO from an approved school of medicine within five years of applying to the residency program.
  • MD applicants must have passed USMLE Step 1 with a minimum score of 215, USMLE Step 2 with a minimum score of 229, Clinical Knowledge (CK) and Clinical Skills (CS) prior to beginning the program and each applicant must pass USMLE Step 3 previous to starting CA-1 (PGY-2) year of training.
  • DO applicants must have passed COMLEX Level 1 with a minimum score of 494 and COMPLEX Level 2 with a minimum score of 507, Cognitive Evaluation (CE) and Performance Evaluation (PE) prior to beginning training. Each trainee must pass COMLEX Level 3 prior to starting CA-1 (PGY-2) year of training.
  • All applicants must submit verification of completion of one year of postgraduate education as described in the ACGME Program Requirements for Anesthesiology (III.A.1.a).(1).
In the event that an applicant is in the process of completing the initial twelve months of training as noted above, verification of training must be submitted prior to beginning the anesthesiology residency.

Required documentation​

  • Dean’s letter
  • Medical school transcript
  • Personal statement
  • USMLE STEP 1*, 2 CK and CS, or
  • COMLEX 1*, 2, CE and PE
  • Headshot photograph
  • Three letters of recommendation
  • Curriculum vitae
(*Initial application may be made with USMLE 1 and/or COMLEX 1. However, applicants will not be officially ranked without documented completion of the examinations noted above.)

For information on ERAS, you may access their website. Current medical students can also obtain additional information at their medical school dean’s office.

ERAS application​

  • All applications for training are accepted through the Electronic Residency Application Service (ERAS).
  • ERAS applications are accepted August 1 through December 31 of the calendar year.
  • To locate this program in ERAS, use ACGME ID: 0401100211.
For information on ERAS, you may access their website. Current medical students can also obtain additional information at their medical school dean's office.


Contact Us​

For more information, please call (352) 597-3088.
 
BLADEMDA said:
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LOL one of those is not like the other. I mean, avoid HCA programs but Tulane is obviously a very solid program in downtown New Orleans. Also one of those other programs on HCA's list already shut down.

I'm a DO that's in line to be chief next year and scored 250's on steps. If I were applying to my program(my first rank) this year, I would 100% not have matched here. COVID has shaken things up. Programs even received an email this year stating that everyone was pretty much interviewing the same competitive applicants. Students from my med school with similar stats to me reached out and asked me wtf was wrong with their application because they were getting like 5 interviews. Meanwhile I received >20 and couldn't go on all of them.

This is multifactorial, but anesthesia is much more competitive than it was a few years ago (this started before covid), and Zoom interviews seems to have made programs reach for the stars, because it is so much easier to attend interviews now so the 260's JHU's and Stanfords that previously would have cancelled the interview still attend.

To long didn't read, apply backup.
 
Mehd School said:
LOL one of those is not like the other. I mean, avoid HCA programs but Tulane is obviously a very solid program in downtown New Orleans. Also one of those other programs on HCA's list already shut down.

I'm a DO that's in line to be chief next year and scored 250's on steps. If I were applying to my program(my first rank) this year, I would 100% not have matched here. COVID has shaken things up. Programs even received an email this year stating that everyone was pretty much interviewing the same competitive applicants. Students from my med school with similar stats to me reached out and asked me wtf was wrong with their application because they were getting like 5 interviews. Meanwhile I received >20 and couldn't go on all of them.

This is multifactorial, but anesthesia is much more competitive than it was a few years ago (this started before covid), and Zoom interviews seems to have made programs reach for the stars, because it is so much easier to attend interviews now so the 260's JHU's and Stanfords that previously would have cancelled the interview still attend.

To long didn't read, apply backup.
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This was eye opening, thank you for explaining.

This next part is less relevant for OP but more for med students interested in applying to anesthesia in the next few years. I can’t see anesthesia’s competitiveness not going up each year. More and more med students care a lot about lifestyle, and whether or not it is true, med students perceive anesthesia as “chill” and a lifestyle speciality with very high income. Med students are also starting to realize that no speciality is safe from midlevels so the CRNA doom and gloom isn’t as much of a deterrent as it was 5-10 years ago. Just my 2 cents from talking to people at my school and reading stuff on Reddit where there a lot more med students than here.
 
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I think there are MORE med students all vying for Residency Positions. This means every slot is "competitive" to some degree. So many new DO schools combined with IMGs from around the world especially the known Caribbean schools. Remember, these new DO schools are just now pumping out all those 4th year graduates all of whom need spots. Caribbean grads study over a year for the step 1 exam. Using the HCA programs as an example, they take both DO and Caribbean grads to fill their slots. In fact, 75% of their residents are in those 2 categories.

So, if you are a DO with a step 1 less than 220 I agree that matching isn't going to be easy. Apply broadly to the bottom 1/3 university programs and all the community based ones. Best of luck.
 
In total, 6,581 senior students from DO-granting medical schools participated in the Match, an increase of 1,103 from 2019. The 90.7% match rate for that segment was a 2.6 percentage point increase from 2019. Since 2016, the number of seniors from DO-granting medical schools has increased 120%, according to NRMP data.Mar 20, 2020
 
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Take a look at the numbers on this web site. Very informative
 
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chocomorsel said:
What the hell? Who decides what a top 5 MD school is? How's this any different in our world?
Click to expand...
Because all DO schools are mediocre at best by definition.

-top 5 DO school grad
 
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jw3600 said:
Because all DO schools are mediocre at best by definition.

-top 5 DO school grad
Click to expand...
DOs typically need a slightly higher Step 1 score than their U.S. MD counterparts. This means a 218 is a low score for a DO applicant making a MATCH that much harder. But, it is still likely the OP can MATCH into a lower tier or community based program (HCA) if he/she has an otherwise excellent application.
 
www.prospectivedoctor.com

How Competitive is an Anesthesiology Residency? Updated for 2023

If you want a career as an anesthesiologist, here is how competitive the medical specialty is to match into an anesthesiology residency.
www.prospectivedoctor.com www.prospectivedoctor.com


The 2020 National Resident Matching Program (NRMP) Match—the first combined match since the transition to a single graduate medical education accreditation system began—saw a record-high number of U.S. DO fourth-year participants, and their 90.7% PGY-1 match rate was also the highest ever.
 
For those of you wondering if HCA will "fill" all their new community based residency programs with bodies the answer is a resounding YES.

After looking at all the data if I was a young person just entering this field I would DEFINITELY be doing at least 1 fellowship. The number of newly minted Anesthesiologists are going to be at record numbers in just a few years. You will be easily replaced without a subspecialty skill set by an HCA trained community physician. I see now why those Cardiac fellowship positions are so coveted by residents.

There will always be a need for the generalist just as their will always be a need for hospitalists, FPs, etc. But, that type of position will easily be filled by your younger colleague at a lower cost. AMCs and hospitals will quickly see the new community grad will accept less pay just to get a job.
 
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BLADEMDA said:
Based on the above chart should the OP pursue FP as a backup? IM and EM are tougher matches than Anesthesiology.
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Don't agree especially now that the em job market imploded and people can't get any job, never mind a decent one
 
GassYous said:
Don't agree especially now that the em job market imploded and people can't get any job, never mind a decent one
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OP may need a backup as the anticipated MATCH success rate is 75% or so. I think FP is the likely backup specialty choice for the OP. Opinion?
 
orthomyxostudent said:
Hi everyone! I am a stressed out osteopathic student who is applying to residency this upcoming year. After seeing DOs not get that many interviews, I am hesitant and nervous about doing anesthesiology. I received a 218 on step 1 and 518 on comlex 1. is it a good idea to apply to anesthesia considering COVID is going to be around? Is a back up necessary in these times? Considering my score, would I be screened out of some interviews? I can't seem understand if it is due to covid or there is alot of competition among us in this speciality. If it helps knowing, I go to top 5 DO school. Thank you and any sort of guidance/ tips would be appreciated.
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DO schools don't have ranks, per se, they have reputations at individual programs. Look for places your school has successfully matched people to anesthesia at during past cycles. Have a backup, as anesthesia has gotten a bit more warm in the past few years, but you'll probably match if you apply broad enough
 
BLADEMDA said:
For those of you wondering if HCA will "fill" all their new community based residency programs with bodies the answer is a resounding YES.

After looking at all the data if I was a young person just entering this field I would DEFINITELY be doing at least 1 fellowship. The number of newly minted Anesthesiologists are going to be at record numbers in just a few years. You will be easily replaced without a subspecialty skill set by an HCA trained community physician. I see now why those Cardiac fellowship positions are so coveted by residents.

There will always be a need for the generalist just as their will always be a need for hospitalists, FPs, etc. But, that type of position will easily be filled by your younger colleague at a lower cost. AMCs and hospitals will quickly see the new community grad will accept less pay just to get a job.
Click to expand...
Given the choice between no residency and HCA, the choice is obvious for many grads
 
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chocomorsel said:
Well that’s a sweeping generalization. Although I am no expert this sort of blanket statement makes me question why you would attend such a mediocre school.
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You go where you get in. Med school app process was/is competitive. The med school doesn’t make the person. Most of succeeding in life is what you put in yourself. Would still rather be an exceptional student at a mediocre school than a mediocre student at an exceptional school.
 
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