Do I need to shadow?

[sketcham]

So this is my dilemma: I am an NP (nurse practitioner) finishing my pre-reqs and as I look over all the things that other applicants are doing I wonder if I really need to do some of them.

1. I work in a clinical situation everyday...do I really need to shadow a physician to see if I like medicine? I know I like it, I just want to do more. I work side by side with MD's/surgeons everyday. I am not sure what shadowing would do for me.

2. Volunteering...I have contacted several hospitals and clinics in my area and inquired about doing volunteer work. However, they do not want me to do what the other volunteers are doing (various helpful tasks for patients, nurses, doctors) they instead want me to be a "free" nurse for them. Now don't get me wrong, I know its supposed to be community service but I really don't want to volunteer as a nurse, call me lazy,but I would like to see/do what the other volunteers do. This may sound funny but I've been a nurse for years and I know how to do that. I have never been a candy striper or a clerk or helped out in the ER or any of the other experiences I hear/read about from others. Am I unreasonable?

3. I should be finished with my pre-reqs in spring '08. What is a reasonable timeline for MCAT and starting the application process.

I hope these questions don't sound crazy, but I'm just not sure and the counselor at the college I am getting my post-bacc at also isn't sure. Thanks.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[spicedmanna]

So this is my dilemma: I am an NP (nurse practitioner) finishing my pre-reqs and as I look over all the things that other applicants are doing I wonder if I really need to do some of them.

1. I work in a clinical situation everyday...do I really need to shadow a physician to see if I like medicine? I know I like it, I just want to do more. I work side by side with MD's/surgeons everyday. I am not sure what shadowing would do for me.

I agree. You don't need any "shadowing" time. In fact, I would say that nobody actually needs to shadow a doctor for medical school admissions, unless you are applying to osteopathic schools; it isn't a requirement for allopathic medical school admissions. If you are applying to osteopathic schools, you need to check each school for their individual requirements on shadowing. Many applicants choose to shadow doctors in place of clinical experience. If you know what doctors do, then you are set.

2. Volunteering...I have contacted several hospitals and clinics in my area and inquired about doing volunteer work. However, they do not want me to do what the other volunteers are doing (various helpful tasks for patients, nurses, doctors) they instead want me to be a "free" nurse for them. Now don't get me wrong, I know its supposed to be community service but I really don't want to volunteer as a nurse, call me lazy,but I would like to see/do what the other volunteers do. This may sound funny but I've been a nurse for years and I know how to do that. I have never been a candy striper or a clerk or helped out in the ER or any of the other experiences I hear/read about from others. Am I unreasonable?

No, there is nothing unreasonable about your request, only I am having difficulty understanding where you are coming from. You have actual clinical skills, and nursing is in great demand; everywhere I've looked, there's a shortage of nurses and a clear need for the kind of help that only nurses (or nursing assistants) can provide. You actually have the capability to help patients beyond changing their bed sheets, cleaning up their messes, or handing doctors or nurses their tools. There's nothing so glorious about the work of a candy-striper that would make me choose that work over actually being able to treat patients that require my help. If I were you, I'd volunteer at a free clinic and help patients who usually aren't able to receive good medical care. That's where the need is. Let the unskilled high school and college students handle the candy-striping. Go for the high-yield stuff.

Volunteerism isn't about accumulating some hours without pay so you can get into medical school; at least, in my opinion, it's about giving yourself freely to do the most good in your community. If you have clinical skills, use them to help people who would most certainly benefit from that. There are plenty of bed pan cleaners out there, but not as many nurses who are willing to do their work for free, especially in medically underserved areas.

Also, it isn't necessary to volunteer at a hospital, if it doesn't inspire you. There are plenty of other arenas that could use your help.

3. I should be finished with my pre-reqs in spring '08. What is a reasonable timeline for MCAT and starting the application process.

You need a good 3 months to study and prepare for the MCAT, so if you start during your spring semester you could potentially be ready to take it in April. That's the usual timeline. Then, start working on your primary application (AMCAS, or AACOMAS); submit it as early as you are able to, around the end of June or early July.

 

[sketcham]

Thank you for your input. You know, I wasn't really thinking about just putting in hours, but I was trying to volunteer in a way that would allow me to see medicine from a different point of view. However, you make a good point regarding nurses and underserved/free clinics. I will have to think about that.

 

[soonereng]

Also, it isn't necessary to volunteer at a hospital, if it doesn't inspire you. There are plenty of other arenas that could use your help.

Since you do have so much clinical exposure, you might want to volunteer in a non-medical way (Big Brother/Big Sister, volunteering at a library reading program, etc.)

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

As an NP, you don't need to seek out clinical experience -- you work in a clinical setting every day!

Also, if you are planning on applying this coming cycle and haven't done any volunteer work up until now, the ~6 months of volunteering that you could do isn't likely to impact your application. If you have more time, then I agree with the other poster that said there is no need to volunteer in a clinical setting -- do volunteer work that you think rewarding.

 

[pingouin]

I'm a clinical social worker, and I have lots of hospital-based and outpatient clincial hours as well; I've decided that I don't need to shadow, as I work very closely with two different medical teams to provide care. For volunteer hours, I'm supervising a masters-level social worker for her clinical license pro bono. I'ts a weekly commitment which spans 2 years (we're a year in). It's something a little different, but still in my field. Just trying think outside the proverbial box....

 

[Noeljan]

hmm I'm not sure
I worked as a CNA, medical assistant, and RN. I also shadowed in a bunch of different settings. I have to say, while the experience I gained in those roles were amazing and certainly helped out a lot, it was a lot different through the eyes of the physician. When you shadow you get to see the physician role and daily activities, and it varies a lot from other healthcare providers. It is a very different role. I can't fully explain what I mean into words, but for any applicants own experience I would highly suggest shadowing a physician.
good luck

 

[burntcrispy]

I worked as a nurse for 6 years before going to medschool. I had no shadowing or volunteering on my app and got in just fine. Main thing they care about is MCAT and Grades. The other stuff is just fluff.

Good luck with the app.

 

[MeowMix]

Main thing they care about is MCAT and Grades. The other stuff is just fluff.

This may be true for those who have not been nurses etc.; for an ancient old (40+) non-trad from a NON-health-care field, shadowing is essential in order to show that you have some idea of what doctors' jobs are like, or at least that you are willing to follow them around to try to learn. Otherwise, you may have lots of opinions and personal experience as a patient, but not much else. I had a lot of shadowing on my application with doctors in a variety of practice types, DO and MD, and received many positive comments about it in interviews. Interviewers were also very pleased that I had shadowed both doctors and nurses and was pretty clear about why I wanted to be a doctor.

 

[spicedmanna]

This may be true for those who have not been nurses etc.; for an ancient old (40+) non-trad from a NON-health-care field, shadowing is essential in order to show that you have some idea of what doctors' jobs are like, or at least that you are willing to follow them around to try to learn. Otherwise, you may have lots of opinions and personal experience as a patient, but not much else. I had a lot of shadowing on my application with doctors in a variety of practice types, DO and MD, and received many positive comments about it in interviews. Interviewers were also very pleased that I had shadowed both doctors and nurses and was pretty clear about why I wanted to be a doctor.

Schools do care, but only after you have good grades and a good MCAT score. At least this seems to be true if you going allopathic.

 

[Noeljan]

Schools do care, but only after you have good grades and a good MCAT score. At least this seems to be true if you going allopathic.

yes I agree with you, after the MCAT and grades they do look at everything. You don't want to go in there with them questioning your desire. Heck you might not even get past your premed committee without some sort of shadowing/clinicals. I am glad I did it for my own personal benefit They def. ask about it.

ps. I just got accepted to my top chioce a day after I interviewed (allopathic). I didn't apply to any osteopathic so I'm not sure about their process though I have heard with them you need to have shadowed a D.O. I have a friend applying to D.O. schools now and he had to seek out a D.O. to shadow and get a LOR from.

 

[efex101]

Be aware folks, some schools place a LOT of emphasis on volunteering/shadowing/clinical experience. Yes, MCAT and GPA will get your foot in the door so to speak but with double/triple the amount of applicants that you would need to fill out ALL medical schools...other things come into play. My school looks at EC's very closely and folks with super MCAT/GPA have been rejected due to lack of. So again, do not assume anything. If there is doubt CALL ALL schools you are applying to and ask.

 

[Noeljan]

Be aware folks, some schools place a LOT of emphasis on volunteering/shadowing/clinical experience. Yes, MCAT and GPA will get your foot in the door so to speak but with double/triple the amount of applicants that you would need to fill out ALL medical schools...other things come into play. My school looks at EC's very closely and folks with super MCAT/GPA have been rejected due to lack of. So again, do not assume anything. If there is doubt CALL ALL schools you are applying to and ask.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

From the University of South Florida "secondary complete" email...

In that initial review we will look to determine that you meet the minimum GPA/MCAT standards (3.0/24) and assess a large number of other factors to include: academic rigor and GPA trends, additional academic degrees, your GPA/MCAT scores related to those from your institution who were accepted to recent MD Programs, and assess your motivation for medicine and helping others. Factors which help us to determine "motivation" include your AMCAS Personal Statement, your Secondary Essay, Letters of Recommendation and the all-important Other Activities portion of AMCAS. Each year we interview approximately 350 applicants and those selected for interview will have demonstrated a consistent history of medical volunteering and community service volunteering, will have done some physician shadowing, will have demonstrated teamwork and leadership skills, and may have some medical research experience (although this is not a requirement for interview selection). If your application shows your "motivation" and your GPA/MCAT meets or exceeds the 3.0/24 as set by our committee, there is a strong probablility that your file will be included in a group which may be selected for an interview at some point during the interview season. This is a large group each year and not all will actually be invited for an interview. The stronger we perceive your "motivation" and the higher your GPA/MCAT the more likely you are to be invited for an interview.

 

[efex101]

Again, it behooves all applicants to not make blanket assumptions about anything. All medical schools could be filled with 4.0 GPA/32 MCAT! so there is a lot to be said for the "other" components of the application. Remember, there are way more applicants than spots so after the initial cut with objective data that may reduce the pool a little...then adcoms take a close look at LOR/volunteering/shadowing/community service/etc. GPA and MCAT prove that you can handle the medical school curriculum but the "other" elements prove that you have the motivation, compassion, leadership skills, altruism that adcoms are looking for.

 

[sketcham]

Thank you all for your advice. I agree that shadowing is an important component, especially for people who have not worked in healthcare. However, I think many of you are thinking combining the RN/NP role, working as an NP/PA is quite different. Basically, my job is shadowing several surgeons in an office practice, seeing patients with lower acuity problems, following up with all their surgical patients and diagnostic tests, scans, etc. So...other than shadowing a few MD's completely out of my field (which I did during school) I can't really see how it would affect my position regarding medical school.
I had previously thought that the idea of shadowing was to gain clinial experience so that you did not go to medical school and discover clinical care just "isn't your thing". However, since everyone seems to concur that it is de rigeur maybe i'll look into it a little more.
I have also done much volunteer work with girls shelters, underserved populations/education, walk for the cure etc etc. I was trying to find a healthcare-related volunteer activity since so many places seem to list this as desirable. I really appreciated the idea of free clinics, but I did want to disagree about one thing: Doing volunteer work as a nurse is not more important or "better" than any of the people who help in so many other ways. The people who volunteer to sit with suicidal patients or to be with hospice patients as respite for exhausted family members or to do so many little things that patients find helpful are often more meaningful than the mundane tasks that nurses do. Just because there is little bit of paper that says I can dispense meds/treatments does not mean that the people that I am caring for remember me or that the hospital or clinic system finds my help in any way more remarkable than all the other volunteers. I simply wanted to see the other side of the coin.
Thanks all for your comments.

 

[sistahnik]

Md and DO schools require some shadowing and this is because you need to know what you are getting involved in. Of course, if you are already working in a clinical setting then you are probably OK. I would contact some of the schools you are applying to and get some advice on what they think about your particular situation. I am in the same boat with lots of years of clinical exp and been told by some physicians that I don't need to shadow but I did with a few of the ones I worked for. So take these comments with a grain of salt!!

 

[spicedmanna]

Md and DO schools require some shadowing and this is because you need to know what you are getting involved in.

Well, for the sake of accuracy, I would say that DO schools generally strongly recommend having shadowed a physician (and they prefer DO's), and some require it, in addition to a letter of recommendation from the physician. You are spot on about checking the schools directly for their specific requirements. Please do that.

As for MD schools, none of the ones that I applied to seemed to mention shadowing as a requirement. It appears to be optional, but I'm sure it really helps and many successful applicants will probably have shadowed a physician.

Again, in general, for most schools, there is no REQUIREMENT to shadow a doctor. However, do check each school in which you intend to apply, for their individual requirements on shadowing and whatnot.

Would I recommend shadowing a doc? Well, the more I think about it, the more I would say that it wouldn't hurt you at all; it can only help. Even if you have significant clinical experience, you might not have been exposed to the backroom stuff, such as how they interpret laboratory test/study data and trends, make differential diagnoses, etc., which is equally important to the role of a physician. You may wish to pick an area that you haven't had a lot of clinical exposure. For instance, if you are an NP on the medicine wards, try shadowing some trauma surgeons, or something like that. You can most certainly make this worth your while.

 

[efex101]

Shadowing is usually for those w/o healthcare background so they can see what a life in healthcare may entail. What you have to worry about at some schools is the "other" extracurricular activities that are hard to come by when you are working FT. Many schools including mine like to see longterm commitment to community service both in the length and breadth of your involvement. Again, CALL ALL schools that you will be applying to and tell them your situation to see what the schools would like to see in an applicant.