DO in EM?

[Acheron]

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I am considering going to DO school but after I graduate I'd like to be an EM physician.

Are there many DO in your department? Or should I hold out and go for the MD? I need to bring up my GPA a bit to be more competitive but my MCAT was decent at 33O.

 

[Ras Tafari]

Well I'm not in the ED or even medical school (not yet at least!) but I do work as a tech at the stroke center at the Medical University of South Carolina Main Hospital. All the ER physicians have to rotate up to our unit for stroke training or something and I have seen two second year DO residents. I talked to one and he said MUSC usually accepts at least one DO into the EM residency program each year.

 

[deleted65604]

My Dad always said that it is better to shoot for the stars and hit the moon, than to aim for a pile of manure, pretty sure you are going to get it.

Why would you want to be referred to as a Bart Simpson expletive, if there was an alternative?

I'm kidding, I'm kidding... kind of.

 

[opb]

I think EM is one of the more DO-friendly specialties. Of course this will vary from program to program. Some places I rotated at had some DO physicians while others did not. Personally, I think you should bring up your GPA a bit and go for an MD as your MCAT score is pretty solid.

 

[Doctor Bob]

My Dad always said that it is better to shoot for the stars and hit the moon, than to aim for a pile of manure, pretty sure you are going to get it.

Why would you want to be referred to as a Bart Simpson expletive, if there was an alternative?

I'm kidding, I'm kidding... kind of.

While there is certainly a quantifiable difference between people who get into DO schools vs MD schools (in the way of GPA and MCAT scores) there doesn't seem to be much of a quantifiable difference between DO graduates and MD graduates (in the sense of USMLE scores, when the exam is taken by both).

Except that a higher percent of the MD grads often act like the manure pile that the DO grads supposedly aimed for.

I'm kidding, I'm kidding... sort of.

 

[docB]

I am considering going to DO school but after I graduate I'd like to be an EM physician.

Are there many DO in your department? Or should I hold out and go for the MD? I need to bring up my GPA a bit to be more competitive but my MCAT was decent at 33O.

EM is one of the more DO friendly specialties. In my group we have about 25% DOs and 3 of the 5 site directors are DOs (4 of 7 if you include the rural hospitals that are affiliated with my group).

Getting an EM residency is easier as an MD because of the way that the DO matching process works. You would have more options geographically and in sheer numbers as an MD.

You can certainly be an EP as either an MD or a DO.

 

[Augustus]

If a Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine has all of the same privileges as a Doctor of Medicine to practice Emergency Medicine then why does it matter what degree the physician has?

 

[digitlnoize]

If a Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine has all of the same privileges as a Doctor of Medicine to practice Emergency Medicine then why does it matter what degree the physician has?

It doesn't, but there still exists some animosity between certain populations(i.e. old) in the two groups.

FWIW, a guy at my DO school has about 8 EM interviews thus far...and we match a good number in EM every year.

 

[jbar]

You should be going to the kind of school you want to go to. There is nothing wrong with DOs but if you don't want to learn how to do spinal manipulation, don't want to deal with the whole COMLEX v USMLE, don't want to have to sort out if certain residencies take DOs etc then why put yourself through all that if you can get into MD? If you want to learn that stuff go DO.

But the truth is most people who are going to DO seem to be doing it not because of some deep love of "holistic medicine" but rather because they have a better shot statistically than at the MD. And as long as that is true there will always be a bit of a stigma.

 

[Augustus]

It doesn't, but there still exists some animosity between certain populations(i.e. old) in the two groups.

FWIW, a guy at my DO school has about 8 EM interviews thus far...and we match a good number in EM every year.

I'm just going to apply for both MD & DO and then make a decision based on where I get accepted.

I don't have anything against the osteopathic teaching methods and just view it as an alternate route to get to the same destination. Besides, it isn't as though the training is any longer or the pay is any different once you graduate.

I'm surprised that DO school isn't more competitive given the limited number of spots in US MD schools.

 

[EMbean]

i'm a DO grad and an allopathic EM resident. i had a ton of interviews for EM, at both osteopathic and allopathic programs. i never thought i was treated inferiorly for my DO degree, and had a lot of positive feedback on all interviews. ultimately i decided on a well established, competitive allopathic residency in EM. if you want DO, i never once thought it limited my options. rather, i think the choice of both osteopathic and allopathic residency programs broadened my chances when applying to residency.

 

[Smackey]

I am also a DO grad in an allopathic EM program and my sentiments pretty much reflect EMBeam. Plus about 20% of my graduating class matched into EM both allopathic and osteopathic.

 

[shaggybill]

I am also a DO grad in an allopathic EM program and my sentiments pretty much reflect EMBeam.

Just of of curiosity, is there an advantage to doing an allopathic residency instead of an osteopathic if you graduated from a DO school? Perhaps advantage isn't the right word. Is the end result any different?

 

[digitlnoize]

Just of of curiosity, is there an advantage to doing an allopathic residency instead of an osteopathic if you graduated from a DO school? Perhaps advantage isn't the right word. Is the end result any different?

DO school is getting more and more competitive. My school's stats are going up and up every year. At this point, we're only a point or two below my state schools...

As far as advantage to DO vs. MD residencies: Do a search and you'll find alot. Some people say that the DO residencies aren't as good. I'd say it's more program dependent than DEGREE dependent.

There are good MD schools and bad MD schools.
There are good DO schools and bad DO schools.
There are good MD residencies and bad MD residencies.
There are good DO residencies and bad DO residencies.
There are good MD's and bad MD's.
There are good DO's and bad DO's.

Given that all of the above are true (and they are) it doesn't seem, to me, to be dependent on the letters after your name...or the name of your residency.

 

[J ROD]

I have seen a couple of DOs at my place.....

If you have the stats on board scores, I dont think it will be a problem..

EM is DO cool!!

 

[EM Lansing]

And don't forget some EM programs are dually accredited.

Approx 40 - 50% of our residents are DOs

 

[Smackey]

Just of of curiosity, is there an advantage to doing an allopathic residency instead of an osteopathic if you graduated from a DO school? Perhaps advantage isn't the right word. Is the end result any different?

I don't think their is an advantage either way, I could be wrong. I chose my program because I liked it the best, it was well respected throughout the country and I liked the location. I applied for both DO and MD programs and I ranked them based on the program not the type of program.

Either way you get payed the same and don't have trouble finding a job.

 

[Pure Anergy]

I am considering going to DO school but after I graduate I'd like to be an EM physician.

Are there many DO in your department? Or should I hold out and go for the MD? I need to bring up my GPA a bit to be more competitive but my MCAT was decent at 33O.

I'm at an MD school and we have DO and MD residents. The only way you would know the difference is if you read their hospital ID.

 

[Jeff698]

Dude, you SMOKED the MCAT if you scored 330!

Either that or they've changed the scoring criteria since I took it. 🙂

Take care,
Jeff

BTW, I could care less about the MD vs DO thing. I work with plenty of DOs both in and out of EM. The further out of med school I am the more the subject bores me. I was accepted by both and made my choice based on location and expense (yeah state school!).

 

[jbar]

I think they are saying 33 O (letter o)

 

[RandomAttending]

I am considering going to DO school but after I graduate I'd like to be an EM physician.

Are there many DO in your department? Or should I hold out and go for the MD? I need to bring up my GPA a bit to be more competitive but my MCAT was decent at 33O.

No DOs in my dept. but I know other programs that have DO attendings. It is doable but is more challenging. It also depends on if you go community or academic, urban or suburban.

 

[Jeff698]

I think they are saying 33 O (letter o)

Oh.

Well, in that case, never mind. 🙂

Me thinks it has been quite a while since I've thought much about MCAT scores. Thankfully.

Take care,
Jeff

 

[FormerWebGuy]

I currently volunteer at a hospital in metro Detroit and about 6 of the 20 ER physicians are DO's.

 

[FormerWebGuy]

I would see that it only matters if you want to work in certain other countries as a DO because they are limited in practice in some other countries. Otherwise, in the ER that I volunteer at I see DO's and MD's working together every week and I see little difference aside from the two letters behind their names. Based on my time in this forum, and regular interactions with both types of physicians, it seems that mostly aspiring docs and med school students debate the differences the most.

 

[oxytocin]

i'm a DO grad and an allopathic EM resident. i had a ton of interviews for EM, at both osteopathic and allopathic programs. i never thought i was treated inferiorly for my DO degree, and had a lot of positive feedback on all interviews. ultimately i decided on a well established, competitive allopathic residency in EM. if you want DO, i never once thought it limited my options. rather, i think the choice of both osteopathic and allopathic residency programs broadened my chances when applying to residency.

did you take usmle too?

 

[Smackey]

did you take usmle too?

I did take the USMLE as well. I think it helped quite a bit as allopathic program directors for the most part don't know what to make of a Comlex score, but with a USMLE score they can compare you pretty well with everyone else. I scored roughly the same percentage wise on both tests...

 

[oxytocin]

I took the COMLEX only, wondering if there's time take it 4th year. I'm too afraid of not having enough time to study for it and scoring below average like I did on the comlex (466/80). When is the latest I should take the USMLE? Should I even take it?

 

[eadysx]

I took the COMLEX only, wondering if there's time take it 4th year. I'm too afraid of not having enough time to study for it and scoring below average like I did on the comlex (466/80). When is the latest I should take the USMLE? Should I even take it?

I am a DO in an allopathic residency, MCV-VCUHS in VA.

I took only COMLEX.

Both attendings and residents at my place are MD's and DO's.

The DO vs MD topic has never once come up.

If YOU think you should take the USMLE then, take it. If you do well it can't hurt you. If you don't do well.....

Do you NEED it? I am not sure ANYONE really has the answer to that. It depends on where you want to go, where you do your student rotations.....

Work hard, I bet you will get what you want no matter what you decided.

 

[oxytocin]

I got 466/80. Do you think I should take it? I'm not sure if I can hit average given how the only time I have to actually take it is in btwn 3rd and 4th year (when I'm suppose to take my step2) I'm actually interested in getting into any program at this point. What are the less competitive programs that I should look into to increase my chance?

by the way, congrats on getting in!

I am a DO in an allopathic residency, MCV-VCUHS in VA.

I took only COMLEX.

Both attendings and residents at my place are MD's and DO's.

The DO vs MD topic has never once come up.

If YOU think you should take the USMLE then, take it. If you do well it can't hurt you. If you don't do well.....

Do you NEED it? I am not sure ANYONE really has the answer to that. It depends on where you want to go, where you do your student rotations.....

Work hard, I bet you will get what you want no matter what you decided.

 

[CIMER]

Of course EM is DO friendly. But it is VERY program dependent. For instance, there are programs along the East and West coast that don't accept COMLEX, and if you look at their resident list, they don't have any DO residents. It closes some doors while opening others.
If you have no burning desire to go the DO route and have a shot at an MD program, it's a no-brainer, at least in my mind.

 

[Natatiap]

I would love the chance to go to MCV. Does anyone know what other programs are open to accepting osteopathic students who took the COMLEX only? I'm trying to decide whether to do an osteopathic or allopathic residency but there arent many osteopathic choices, especially in states where I want to go

 

[corpsmanUP]

DO here, graduated allopathic EM program in June. In Texas, in my group of 6, 4 are DO's. Not all that common in Texas actually but shows that even in the south it is more common every year. Up north in Pa where I did residency DO's were a dime a dozen. In fact in my hospital the strongest residents were DO's. Not sure why but I think it was because being a rural level I it was hard to get people into surgery and fellowship programs so they had a ton of FMG's.

Can honestly say that as of now I have never been able to tell that someone is a DO based on their ability or knowledge. Have known some really good and bad DO's and MD's. Neither title alone ensures competency.

I can also safely guarantee that if you go the DO route and are competitive, you will have no problem landing an allopathic EM residency. I would be very hesitant to do a DO EM residency as they "generally" are not at Level I academic hospitals. I can't imagine feeling confident to take care of some of the things we do by training in a community sized hospital. I know there are good DO programs but I know there are some bad ones. The standardization and credentialing required for allopathic EM programs makes it almost impossible to have a "bad" program.

Some days I forget I am a DO to be honest. Certainly not anything I give a second thought at this juncture.

 

[DrBender79]

I've been looking at the EM residencies on Opportunities (DO) and Freida (MD). All the MD programs say 3 years, and the all DO programs say 4 years.
Some of the programs on Opportunities say they are dually accredited AOA/ACGME parallel programs, such as the one at Newark Beth Israel. So a DO graduate does 4 years but a MD graduate does 3 years at the same program?? I don't get it.

 

[Toohotinvegas33]

I've been looking at the EM residencies on Opportunities (DO) and Freida (MD). All the MD programs say 3 years, and the all DO programs say 4 years.
Some of the programs on Opportunities say they are dually accredited AOA/ACGME parallel programs, such as the one at Newark Beth Israel. So a DO graduate does 4 years but a MD graduate does 3 years at the same program?? I don't get it.

Depends on the program. MSU program is dual, but the the MD's do 3 years while the DO's do 1+3 (intern year separate), other programs everyone does 4 years.

 

[soelman]

I am currently an EMT-B, soon to be a Paramedic, and then proceeding through pre-med and med school, with the goal to be an ED Physician. I not only am curious as to which route to take (Osteopathic or Allopathic) when I get to med school, but also as to which major I should choose for pre-med. I am confident in my ability to score very highly on all tests when they come.
I am a little older (27 by time I can start) than the average pre-med student and I have heard that osteopathic schools look more favorably on non-traditional students. Is there any truth to this? Also, I have heard that less traditional majors, such as humanities majors (Sociology, etc.) have a better shot at acceptance to any med school.
One other option I have seen is UofM Flint, which offers a non-degree pre-med program, which has all the credits for a degree and all the pre-req classes for a med school, but without a degree. Does this seem like a viable option to anyone? I am not looking for shortcuts, but I am hoping to test out of a lot of classes that I feel confident in so I can get GE's out of the way, and this might be a good option if it is acceptable to most medical schools.
Any advice anyone can give would be wonderful

 

[jbar]

You need a degree from a US college university, you can't just have taken the credits.

Worry about your major when you get to college. The important thing is doing what you like, because you'll work harder in classes you enjoy. Getting a good GPA is more important than what the major is. The issue for a lot of people is that it is harder to get a great GPA as a bio major vs some of the others like psychology (where my profs didn't seem to have a problem with a B+ or A- as the median grade for the class.) But you'll just figure out what you like.

 

[docB]

One other option I have seen is UofM Flint, which offers a non-degree pre-med program, which has all the credits for a degree and all the pre-req classes for a med school, but without a degree. Does this seem like a viable option to anyone? I am not looking for shortcuts, but I am hoping to test out of a lot of classes that I feel confident in so I can get GE's out of the way, and this might be a good option if it is acceptable to most medical schools.
Any advice anyone can give would be wonderful

jbar is correct. You need a degree before you take a post baccalaureate pre med program. I took the one at Penn back in the 90s. My undergrad degree is in political science so I had to go back and take the sciences. But you have to have a degree.