DO in Neurosurgery

[HarmlessGhost]

One of my top choices as a specialty has always been neurosurgery. In choosing medical school, I ended up at a DO school for a variety of reasons, including financial ones. I understand that getting into a position in a neurosurgery program will be incredibly competitive and mixed with luck. I am also aware that I still may end up changing my mind with rotations and other experiences. Despite this, I have shadowed a few surgeons in various fields, and, while all were exciting, the neurosurgery was the most exciting for me. It really is something I can see myself enjoying for the rest of my career and see myself regretting when I'm older if I don't pick it.

I'm mostly just asking for some advice. If I do end up choosing neurosurgery, I will clearly need research and publications. I will also need connections. My school does have a pretty extensive arm for research, so that should not be a huge problem for me. I know I'll also need to keep my grades high, and that I will need to take both the COMLEX and USMLE. I also assume that neurosurgery residency programs will value volunteering, which is incredibly hard to come by during a pandemic apparently. Am I missing anything here, and what advice can anyone offer for preparing for the application or just in general?

How much of a disadvantage am I facing as a future DO entering such a competitive field, and is there any way to know how the AOA/ACGME merger will alter my chances of succeeding? Thank you!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[FalconSlice]

One of my top choices as a specialty has always been neurosurgery. In choosing medical school, I ended up at a DO school for a variety of reasons, including financial ones. I understand that getting into a position in a neurosurgery program will be incredibly competitive and mixed with luck. I am also aware that I still may end up changing my mind with rotations and other experiences. Despite this, I have shadowed a few surgeons in various fields, and, while all were exciting, the neurosurgery was the most exciting for me. It really is something I can see myself enjoying for the rest of my career and see myself regretting when I'm older if I don't pick it.

I'm mostly just asking for some advice. If I do end up choosing neurosurgery, I will clearly need research and publications. I will also need connections. My school does have a pretty extensive arm for research, so that should not be a huge problem for me. I know I'll also need to keep my grades high, and that I will need to take both the COMLEX and USMLE. I also assume that neurosurgery residency programs will value volunteering, which is incredibly hard to come by during a pandemic apparently. Am I missing anything here, and what advice can anyone offer for preparing for the application or just in general?

How much of a disadvantage am I facing as a future DO entering such a competitive field, and is there any way to know how the AOA/ACGME merger will alter my chances of succeeding? Thank you!

This is going to be an enormously steep climb and chances are not good. Even stellar US MD applicants don't match sometimes. To give you an idea, only 2 DOs matched into neurosurgery last year--and only 3 in 2018 (all according to NRMP). Albeit, only a little more than a dozen apply, but still. Seems like you already know what you have to do. I'll add find a mentor (or mentors, ideally) who's a neurosurgeon. You'll def need 250+ on Step I (which is going to be P/F soon... so no help there) and 565+ on COMLEX I and 580+ COMLEX II... and that's just to get your foot in the door.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

You will need elite academics, high quality research, and you will need connections. Probably will need to take a research year at a university in their NS department.

Even then your chances are very poor, as neurosurgery is probably the most DO unfriendly specialty.

 

[Tgfu34]

Make sure you also seek out connections to programs that have actually matched DO's into their neurosurgery residency, as I wouldn't put all my effort into a program that has historically never matched a DO. I have no idea how the merger will play out in terms of DO students matching into NSGY but I assume it will just put a larger emphasis on Step 2 and propel the academic publication arms race amongst applicants. High grades, stellar board scores, lots of high-quality research, exceptional performance on audition rotations and strong LOR's will put you in the best possible situation. After that, it's all up to luck!

 

[liquidshadow22]

DOs and even carribean grads have matched into neurosurg. You can make it happen

 

[longhaul3]

There are a few former DO programs that would probably still take a DO. There are a handful of DOs at programs across the country. If you're serious enough to consider applying, you should go to every program's website, find the list of current residents, and see which programs currently have DOs. Then if we ever have sub-is again, do them there. Maybe spend a research year there.

The other strategy is to spend a research year at a high-profile program knowing you won't be able to match there, but it may help you match at a lower tier program. I know someone who did this successfully.

 

[agiraffe999]

Hey,

Tough scenario cause NSG is biased against DO's. However, if you work super duper hard and the stars align, its still possible. Check out the residents below:

PCOM and NJMS

 

[DasNotRacist]

Connections trump all. If you don't have built-in family connections, no need to fret, as you can BUILD these connections. Start with your school connections, other local connections, and any other connections that can lead to conversations with those influential in Neurosurgery.

 

[HarmlessGhost]

Connections trump all. If you don't have built-in family connections, no need to fret, as you can BUILD these connections. Start with your school connections, other local connections, and any other connections that can lead to conversations with those influential in Neurosurgery.

Just wanted to jump back in years later. I worked hard. I got some publications and presentations, but never had the opportunity to do more as my school and clinical site did not offer much research. I worked hard to build connections, but my school offered literally no support. The surgeons at my clinical site are disconnected from the world of neurosurgery as well, so the help there was minimal. I did an away at an old DO program, but they told me there that the faculty is being largely replaced with MDs and that they value MDs over DOs (did other aways too, honors on them all). Got an amazing LOR from there and from my home surgeons per every interview. 260+ on step 2. Come match Monday last week, turns out I did not match. My school has no options to delay graduation and will not support me pursuing the field, I don't have enough money (come from a poor family) to risk a research year or a transitional/pre-residency fellowship year. I ended up SOAPing into FM, I have never dreaded anything more in my life. I tried my best to carve a place for me in a field that never wanted someone like me, and I still was kept out. Time to close the door on this dream and focus on getting out of medicine altogether!

 

[SurgDoc95]

Just wanted to jump back in years later. I worked hard. I got some publications and presentations, but never had the opportunity to do more as my school and clinical site did not offer much research. I worked hard to build connections, but my school offered literally no support. The surgeons at my clinical site are disconnected from the world of neurosurgery as well, so the help there was minimal. I did an away at an old DO program, but they told me there that the faculty is being largely replaced with MDs and that they value MDs over DOs (did other aways too, honors on them all). Got an amazing LOR from there and from my home surgeons per every interview. 260+ on step 2. Come match Monday last week, turns out I did not match. My school has no options to delay graduation and will not support me pursuing the field, I don't have enough money (come from a poor family) to risk a research year or a transitional/pre-residency fellowship year. I ended up SOAPing into FM, I have never dreaded anything more in my life. I tried my best to carve a place for me in a field that never wanted someone like me, and I still was kept out. Time to close the door on this dream and focus on getting out of medicine altogether!

Not a neurosurgeon, but as a fellow DO pursuing a competitive surgical field (via fellowship) I can empathize with you here. The reality is you faced a very steep uphill battle with being a DO and minimal support from your school. Have you considered reapplying to say gen surg during your intern year? Might not be the exact field you were hoping for, but if you truly want to be a surgeon it is likely your most realistic path. Plenty of fellowship options after GS

 

[HarmlessGhost]

Not a neurosurgeon, but as a fellow DO pursuing a competitive surgical field (via fellowship) I can empathize with you here. The reality is you faced a very steep uphill battle with being a DO and minimal support from your school. Have you considered reapplying to say gen surg during your intern year? Might not be the exact field you were hoping for, but if you truly want to be a surgeon it is likely your most realistic path. Plenty of fellowship options after GS

I am considering it, but I am not really sure yet what my life goals are.

 

[SurgDoc95]

I am considering it, but I am not really sure yet what my life goals are.

Fair enough, if you decide to apply gen surg send me a DM. Happy to discuss the process, programs (including mine) and whatever information that would be helpful. Best of luck!

 

[SurgeDO]

Just wanted to jump back in years later. I worked hard. I got some publications and presentations, but never had the opportunity to do more as my school and clinical site did not offer much research. I worked hard to build connections, but my school offered literally no support. The surgeons at my clinical site are disconnected from the world of neurosurgery as well, so the help there was minimal. I did an away at an old DO program, but they told me there that the faculty is being largely replaced with MDs and that they value MDs over DOs (did other aways too, honors on them all). Got an amazing LOR from there and from my home surgeons per every interview. 260+ on step 2. Come match Monday last week, turns out I did not match. My school has no options to delay graduation and will not support me pursuing the field, I don't have enough money (come from a poor family) to risk a research year or a transitional/pre-residency fellowship year. I ended up SOAPing into FM, I have never dreaded anything more in my life. I tried my best to carve a place for me in a field that never wanted someone like me, and I still was kept out. Time to close the door on this dream and focus on getting out of medicine altogether!

So sorry to read this, buddy. The match was absolutely brutal this year for DOs, and it’s only going to get worse. Be proud that you were brave enough to fight the good fight despite all the bull **** you had to deal with along the way. It says a lot about your character.

I’m sure it feels like the end of the world right now, but you will be fine. FM has a lot of percs. You could set up a really nice practice working a couple days a week making a lot of money. You’ll have time to pursue your hobbies. You won’t have to go through the miserable 7 years of neurosurgery residency.

I wish you the best, my friend. Hoping that you will grow to see the positive of this unwanted outcome. I think in time that you will.