DO Interventional Radiology

[molarseeker]

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I want to become a interventional radiologist. I don't care if I am a DO or MD, I just love the field of radiology. I have volunteered in the radiology department at a local hospital and am so interested in it. (Although most on here will tell me that I have no idea what I want to do yet) which may be true, this is the field I would like to have as my goal.

STATS:

-I am a neuroscience major senior at UCLA and will be applying MD and DO in June 2013.
- DO GPA should be around 3.4 and my MD GPA around 3.3 when I apply.
-I am taking my MCAT in April and am hoping to get at least a 30.
-year of Alzheimer's research and will hopefully get a LOR from my PI who is the neuropathology chief at UCLA Hospital.
-2.5 years of volunteer work at a surgery center
- 30+ hours of surgery room shadowing
-1 year of volunteer at a place called Fresh Start that offers surgery to underprivliged children.
-few months of volunteer at hospital in radiology department

I know that my GPA is lower than average for MD schools. This is because I spent 5 years at a CC and the first 3 of that I didn't care about school and had a 2.50 GPA. The last 2 years at CC (when I decided I wanted to become a doctor), I got nearly a 4.0 GPA in my remaining courses for my major and brought the GPA to around 3.3 MD, 3.4 DO (because of grade replacement). With these stats, what are my chances at MD and DO schools (assuming a score of 30 MCAT)?

Also, will it kill my chances at IR rad if I go the DO route?

Thanks SDN!

 

[abolt18]

I want to become a interventional radiologist. I don't care if I am a DO or MD, I just love the field of radiology. I have volunteered in the radiology department at a local hospital and am so interested in it. (Although most on here will tell me that I have no idea what I want to do yet) which may be true, this is the field I would like to have as my goal.

STATS:

-I am a neuroscience major senior at UCLA and will be applying MD and DO in June 2013.
- DO GPA should be around 3.4 and my MD GPA around 3.3 when I apply.
-I am taking my MCAT in April and am hoping to get at least a 30.
-year of Alzheimer's research and will hopefully get a LOR from my PI who is the neuropathology chief at UCLA Hospital.
-2.5 years of volunteer work at a surgery center
- 30+ hours of surgery room shadowing
-1 year of volunteer at a place called Fresh Start that offers surgery to underprivliged children.
-few months of volunteer at hospital in radiology department

I know that my GPA is lower than average for MD schools. This is because I spent 5 years at a CC and the first 3 of that I didn't care about school and had a 2.50 GPA. The last 2 years at CC (when I decided I wanted to become a doctor), I got nearly a 4.0 GPA in my remaining courses for my major and brought the GPA to around 3.3 MD, 3.4 DO (because of grade replacement). With these stats, what are my chances at MD and DO schools (assuming a score of 30 MCAT)?

Also, will it kill my chances at IR rad if I go the DO route?

Thanks SDN!

There is a specific place for "What are my chances"

 

[molarseeker]

There is a specific place for "What are my chances"

I realize that, but I have another question which was "will going the DO route ruin my chances at IR radiology?"

 

[Refreshed]

I realize that, but I have another question which was "will going the DO route ruin my chances at IR radiology?"

Interventional Radiology Radiology sounds rad.

 

[NeuroLAX]

Hey OP. I'm also interested in IR a bit. To answer your WAMC question, you have a good shot at DO with the anticipated MCAT. As for your more direct question about IR, you need to think about schools with good radiology connections and/or is a school with an approved direct match program onsite. I know that when I was applying I was intrigued by my school's listing of IR as an elective rotation. So, it's possible that if you get into Nova you can rotate there for an elective and get more involved in the IR community.

Keep up the great work.

EDIT: A bird dropped this in my inbox tonight. I thought I would share because I didn't realize there were so many of these direct programs.

http://www.theabr.org/ic-vir-direct

 

[NontradCA]

Interventional Radiology Radiology sounds like a hoot.

😕

Anyway OP, IR is extremely competitive, and you would have less of a long shot as an MD...I mean Radiology Residency is competitive as is.

 

[molarseeker]

😕

Anyway OP, IR is extremely competitive, and you would have less of a long shot as an MD...I mean Radiology Residency is competitive as is.

Okay okay. I have read some other postings and they have said that radiology is DO "friendly". Do you see this as the case?

 

[cliquesh]

There were 221 IR fellowship spots offered last year. 6 were filled by DOs. 37 DOs matched radiology in 2008 (I think they are the ones applying for fellowships in 2012). About 900 US MDs matched radiology in 2008. 163 of them matched IR. So, as long as you match radiology, it doesn't seem like your odds are that different.

I don't think radiology is DO friendly, but it isn't DO unfriendly. My classmate applying for radiology with a 240 usmle got 11 or so interviews last time I checked, which is enough to match. Not many DOs, at least in my class, have an interest in radiology.

Radiology is becoming less competitive each year. It could be pretty easy to match by the time you graduate or maybe it will be crazy competitive. You never know.

 

[NontradCA]

Okay okay. I have read some other postings and they have said that radiology is DO "friendly". Do you see this as the case?

I mean all this is kind of moot, considering we're both pre-meds..who's to say how it will be 5-7 years from now. I'd focus on the getting into med school first. I mean your GPA is low for CA, and a 30 would be below avg. as well. That's not to say that you shouldn't try and aim higher than a 30.

 

[NeuroLAX]

Okay okay. I have read some other postings and they have said that radiology is DO "friendly". Do you see this as the case?

Radiology is the R in the competitive ROAD specialty acronym. As such, it will be tough. Just do really well in med school and on boards.

 

[molarseeker]

Ya I know my GPA is low. But I'm hoping that bc of my circumstance they will see I am capable.

 

[Mr Kenobi]

There were 221 IR fellowship spots offered last year. 6 were filled by DOs. 37 DOs matched radiology in 2008 (I think they are the ones applying for fellowships in 2012). About 900 US MDs matched radiology in 2008. 163 of them matched IR. So, as long as you match radiology, it doesn't seem like your odds are that different.

I don't think radiology is DO friendly, but it isn't DO unfriendly. My classmate applying for radiology with a 240 usmle got 11 or so interviews last time I checked, which is enough to match. Not many DOs, at least in my class, have an interest in radiology.

Radiology is becoming less competitive each year. It could be pretty easy to match by the time you graduate or maybe it will be crazy competitive. You never know.

Is this true? If so, know the reason?

 

[NontradCA]

Ya I know my GPA is low. But I'm hoping that bc of my circumstance they will see I am capable.

Ya I think you would have a shot at MD considering your last 2 years of 4.0 and good ECs.

 

[cliquesh]

Is this true? If so, know the reason?

Yep, it's true. About 10% of the radiology spots last year went unmatched. It's because the job market is getting saturated, you're basically forced to do a fellowship to get a job, and salaries are expected to take a big hit in the future.

 

[CopToEM]

Yep, it's true. About 10% of the radiology spots last year went unmatched. It's because the job market is getting saturated, you're basically forced to do a fellowship to get a job, and salaries are expected to take a big hit in the future.

I also think students today are becoming more and more focused on patient contact. While rads offers more than many people think it's still lower on that totem pole.

 

[NeuroLAX]

I also think students today are becoming more and more focused on patient contact. While rads offers more than many people think it's still lower on that totem pole.

Hah. Plus in IR the patients are pretty sedated during procedures.

EDIT: Just want to bring to the attention of this thread my edit above about matching IR. It has been brought to my attention that there are many direct IR/VIR programs across the country. http://www.theabr.org/ic-vir-direct

 

[JGimpel]

Let's see if this goes to a "can lowly DOs do IR?" vs. "DO vs. MD" or stays with a "What are my chances?" thread.

 

[NeuroLAX]

Let's see if this goes to a "can lowly DOs do IR?" vs. "DO vs. MD" or stays with a "What are my chances?" thread.

You could just not bring it up...

 

[DolFAN]

I have similar stats to you. I think I finished with like a 3.4ish GPA and 30MCAT and got into some schools. Check out my MDAPPS profile.

Apply early and broadly.

Also keep in mind that often times people change what they think they will do a residency in. For example my ex thought she wanted to do derm, did amazing on her boards and did research in the field basically a shoe in for derm. However once she did her OB/GYN rotation she fell in love and is currently interviewing for her OB internship.

 

[JGimpel]

You could just not bring it up...

The radiologists just got hit with the highest reimbursement cut this year and Nighthawk is vying for more market share...during the day (no link for the latter, just experience):

http://www.ama-assn.org/resources/d...icare-physician-payment-schedule-analysis.pdf

If you're agreeing that the OP is better than the rest of the SDNers that post in the "What are my chances" section, then you do the research for him, hold his hand through the admissions process and carry his Harrison's home for him from class for him too.

 

[NeuroLAX]

The radiologists just got hit with the highest reimbursement cut this year and Nighthawk is vying for more market share...during the day (no link for the latter, just experience):

http://www.ama-assn.org/resources/d...icare-physician-payment-schedule-analysis.pdf

If you're agreeing that the OP is better than the rest of the SDNers that post in the "What are my chances" section, then you do the research for him, hold his hand through the admissions process and carry his Harrison's home for him from class for him too.

I appreciate the facts. I really do. I'm sure the OP and others do, as well. All I'm saying is your first post in this thread was anything but useful. The quoted post, however, is 50% useful. Carry on, good sir.

 

[JGimpel]

.

 

[molarseeker]

Looks like you've got this post handled. Patronizing people that mention that a post is grossly out of place and presumptive of importance relative to his peers will get you nowhere. Based on this post, you'll be the last person I listen to about how much a percent of my post or previous posts are useful. Be objective or be quiet.

Even if the pay goes down for radiology, it will still be a good choice because of job security correct?

 

[DolFAN]

Even if the pay goes down for radiology, it will still be a good choice because of job security correct?

As a physician rest assured that there will always be job security.

 

[DreamJob]

I want to become a interventional radiologist. I don't care if I am a DO or MD, I just love the field of radiology. I have volunteered in the radiology department at a local hospital and am so interested in it. (Although most on here will tell me that I have no idea what I want to do yet) which may be true, this is the field I would like to have as my goal.

STATS:

-I am a neuroscience major senior at UCLA and will be applying MD and DO in June 2013.
- DO GPA should be around 3.4 and my MD GPA around 3.3 when I apply.
-I am taking my MCAT in April and am hoping to get at least a 30.
-year of Alzheimer's research and will hopefully get a LOR from my PI who is the neuropathology chief at UCLA Hospital.
-2.5 years of volunteer work at a surgery center
- 30+ hours of surgery room shadowing
-1 year of volunteer at a place called Fresh Start that offers surgery to underprivliged children.
-few months of volunteer at hospital in radiology department

I know that my GPA is lower than average for MD schools. This is because I spent 5 years at a CC and the first 3 of that I didn't care about school and had a 2.50 GPA. The last 2 years at CC (when I decided I wanted to become a doctor), I got nearly a 4.0 GPA in my remaining courses for my major and brought the GPA to around 3.3 MD, 3.4 DO (because of grade replacement). With these stats, what are my chances at MD and DO schools (assuming a score of 30 MCAT)?

Also, will it kill my chances at IR rad if I go the DO route?

Thanks SDN!

I feel obliged to comment to you. I was a similar applicant to yourself many years ago. I went to a DO school and now I am a PGY5 R4 at a top academic radiology program. IR was a strong consideration for me, but I choose another fellowship. There is another DO in my program who was accepted to a fantastic IR fellowship.

The point of these comments is that yes you can get into radiology as a DO. Also, IR although currently competitive has not historically been so. If you work hard in medical school and prepare hard for the USMLE step 1 you have an excellent shot at radiology. Once you are in rads, you can certainly set yourself up for a great IR fellowship.

A lot of people told me that rads would not be an option as a DO.... they were wrong. Don't let anyone discourage you. Once you are in residency NO ONE cares where you trained or what initials follow your name.

Best of luck!

 

[molarseeker]

I feel obliged to comment to you. I was a similar applicant to yourself many years ago. I went to a DO school and now I am a PGY5 R4 at a top academic radiology program. IR was a strong consideration for me, but I choose another fellowship. There is another DO in my program who was accepted to a fantastic IR fellowship.

The point of these comments is that yes you can get into radiology as a DO. Also, IR although currently competitive has not historically been so. If you work hard in medical school and prepare hard for the USMLE step 1 you have an excellent shot at radiology. Once you are in rads, you can certainly set yourself up for a great IR fellowship.

A lot of people told me that rads would not be an option as a DO.... they were wrong. Don't let anyone discourage you. Once you are in residency NO ONE cares where you trained or what initials follow your name.

Best of luck!

Thank you for your comment!

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

Resurrecting this blast from the past!

How has the IR field changed for D.O.s over the last two years?

I was accepted into KCUMB and would LOVE to go into IR.

 

[cliquesh]

Resurrecting this blast from the past!

How has the IR field changed for D.O.s over the last two years?

I was accepted into KCUMB and would LOVE to go into IR.

Go to http://www.nrmp.org/match-data/main-residency-match-data/ for specific numbers.

In 2014, 94 DOs matched acgme radiology. There were approximately 1200 spots offered.

In 2013, I believe 7 people in my class matched radiology, mostly at lower tier university programs or community programs. One of the 7 had a usmle score above 240. The rest were about average. Overall, radiology has become more DO friendly, probably because the salaries have decreased in recent years.

In the 2014 acgme fellowship match, 13 of the 227 IR spots went to DOs. I do not know how many senior DO residents were eligible to apply. Maybe 60-80? So approximately 15% of DOs in acgme radiology go onto IR.

189 of the 227 IR spots went to USMDs, so approximately 20% of USMDs in radiology residencies go on to IR.

IR may become it's own residency and no longer a fellowship. That may change the number of DOs matching IR.

Radiology is a reasonable goal for a DO. From my classmates' experience, being in the top 40% seems good enough to match. Once you match radiology, I do not think you are at a huge statistical disadvantage matching IR.

 

[DrBowtie]

Go to http://www.nrmp.org/match-data/main-residency-match-data/ for specific numbers.

In 2014, 94 DOs matched acgme radiology. There were approximately 1200 spots offered.

In 2013, I believe 7 people in my class matched radiology, mostly at lower tier university programs or community programs. One of the 7 had a usmle score above 240. The rest were about average. Overall, radiology has become more DO friendly, probably because the salaries have decreased in recent years.

In the 2014 acgme fellowship match, 13 of the 227 IR spots went to DOs. I do not know how many senior DO residents were eligible to apply. Maybe 60-80? So approximately 15% of DOs in acgme radiology go onto IR.

189 of the 227 IR spots went to USMDs, so approximately 20% of USMDs in radiology residencies go on to IR.

IR may become it's own residency and no longer a fellowship. That may change the number of DOs matching IR.

Radiology is a reasonable goal for a DO. From my classmates' experience, being in the top 40% seems good enough to match. Once you match radiology, I do not think you are at a huge statistical disadvantage matching IR.

The new IR residencies I predict will become fiercely competitive due to # of spots and integrated path similar to the integrated surg subspecialties.

I suspect this will further make DR easier to match into. Remember though that procedures are within the scope of a DR.

 

[IslandStyle808]

The new IR residencies I predict will become fiercely competitive due to # of spots and integrated path similar to the integrated surg subspecialties.

I suspect this will further make DR easier to match into. Remember though that procedures are within the scope of a DR.

How long do you think the training for the new IR residency programs will be?

 

[DrBowtie]

How long do you think the training for the new IR residency programs will be?

6 but two IR years.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

6 but two IR years.

So shorter than doing rads residency and then IR fellowship?

 

[ToKingdomCome]

I'm interested in this thread as well so if anyone wants to share they're opinions on what it takes to be a competitive DO for radiology please share. I know there aren't many DO programs out there and even those I've heard are pretty competitive.

Someone also mentioned IR as potentially becoming it's own residency down the road. How would this affect the prospects of one wishing to do IR through the traditional diagnostic rads spot followed by the fellowship?

 

[Mad Jack]

All programs will likely be ACGME by the time you match. Rads isn't as competitive as you'd think. as the field is on a bit of a downturn at the moment, and it is unlikely to cease this downturn in the near future. Worry about integrated IR residencies once that road actually exists. A new integrated residency of that sort would take years to create in any decent number, so it likely won't affect traditional rads>IR fellowship competitiveness for quite some time. So far as a DO going into ACGME IR fellowships, if you do an ACGME residency, it won't be a problem.

 

[cliquesh]

I'm interested in this thread as well so if anyone wants to share they're opinions on what it takes to be a competitive DO for radiology please share. I know there aren't many DO programs out there and even those I've heard are pretty competitive.

Someone also mentioned IR as potentially becoming it's own residency down the road. How would this affect the prospects of one wishing to do IR through the traditional diagnostic rads spot followed by the fellowship?

Getting a 230 on the usmle (a 226 is average) and applying to 40ish programs is probably enough.

 

[ToKingdomCome]

Getting a 230 on the usmle (a 226 is average) and applying to 40ish programs is probably enough.

Class rank matter much? I read TheDO article and said some osteopathic programs won't consider you if you're not in the top 50%.

 

[cliquesh]

Class rank matter much? I read TheDO article and said some osteopathic programs won't consider you if you're not in the top 50%.

I was talking about acgme radiology. Everything on your application matters, ie. grades, publications, LORs. Your board scores matter the most, however. Your usmle score will basically determine your fate.