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I was planning on writing a letter of intent to my top choice school, but it is an Ivy league school. Do you think that they'll even care since interest is probably very high anyway? Thanks.
Do Ivy League schools care about letters of intent?
- Thread starter ahoyfatty
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It can't hurt. Go for it.
I sent one to Columbia about a week ago. No response or acknowledgement yet. I'll keep you updated if things change (for better or worse).
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If you are TRULY competitive (gotta be honest with yourself) and it is a well written, and concise letter it may not hurt but I think many Ivy Leagues arent worried about getting shutdown either.
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Interest is very high in virtually all private med schools when you consider the applicant to places available ratio.
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Have you interviewed yet, and is the school rolling or not? If you haven't interviewed, it will not help you get an interview. If you have interviewed, and the school is non-rolling, wait until something happens (you get your grades, you publish a research paper, get a new job, whatever) and send a combined update/letter of intent. That way you can show that you're interested in the school and you're still doing things that make you a great applicant. If the school is rolling, then go ahead and send one in. Like someone said before, if it is well written and you include good reasons why you'd be a good fit for the school, it certainly can't hurt.
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Remember though, a letter of intent obligates you to go there, and what if you get a scholarship at another school or find that you like another one better? Moreover, in the case of many Ivy League schools, they don't make a decision until February/March. I would hold off on it for now if I were you.
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When I interviewed at Columbia two years ago, the current students made it pretty clear that a letter of intent was critical to being accepted at Columbia. They want students who want nothing more in the world than to be at Columbia. If it's your top choice, absolutely write a letter. Basically, my understanding was that they'd form a list of acceptable people, and the letter of intent was the thing that would push you into the "accept" pile
As such, it was not my top choice, so I never wrote a letter. I was waitlisted, and then I withdrew my application when I decided where I was going. I've no idea if it's really the case, I just know that many in the now third-year class wrote letters.
Best of luck to you!
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Ivy league is not synonymous with top school in med schools as it my be in college (there are Ivy league schools well outside the top 10, Dartmouth and Brown aren't listed in the top 20). So your question is flawed.
At any rate, it is probably not nearly as helpfu to tell a top 10 school you really want to go there as it is to tell a school further down on the USNews rankings. Top schools already assume you really want to go there. But if you have the credentials to get into any of the top tier schools then it may be useful.
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Just to make things clear from the original post, I was stating that the school is my top choice, not a top school. But, as it just so happens, it is also an Ivy League school - and a darn good one at that - Cornell.
Hopefully I'm not trying to kid myself. My numbers are competitive (4.0, 36, already interviewed) but the very good schools have tons of applicants with good numbers. So my real question was could it possibly help to let them know my reasons for making them my number one? My second favorite of all the schools I interviewed at is a state school, so it is not a prestige thing that is driving me there. It really just was the school that I felt had the most down to earth, fun students and a place where I could really see myself fitting in. My application also has a strong emphasis on community service, and that semi-jives with Cornell's missions -- especially emphasis on exposure to international medicine. I did not feel that same sort of link with other "top" schools like Columbia, and so I'd rather go to a state school even if I get in there. It is really more of a comfort level thing, above all.
Hopefully this clears up the picture a bit. Thanks for all of your advice and input, it is greatly appreciated in helping to make a decision.
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I would write the letter. I think as long as it's concise, professional, and sincere, it could only help.
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Your thread title is "do ivy league schools care about letters of intent". Thus the normal inference is that you think these schools are all similarly situated. Which they are not. You should have asked "Do top 15" schools... or "Does cornell..." So your question, and your focus on "ivy league" is still flawed.
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sounds like sincere reasons. the only thing you don't mention but should include in the letter is
"sincerely,
ahoyfatty"
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If you really want to go there, definitely let them know that. You might think that top schools would not worry about that since everyone wants to go there, but in reality not everyone wants to go to every top school. Also, during the application process people just want to get into schools first and then worry about where they really want to go. It may be surprising, but even at most top schools there is this huge shuffle at the end of the season where applicants withdraw from top schools to go to other schools. So even the best schools often accept something like twice the class size before it is all over just to fill the class. If a top school likes you and knows you'll attend b/c you really like the school, I think it might really help your case.
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You seem to be awfully hung up on the flaws of my title; I'm sorry if they obscure the message. It was quickly written on an informal internet forum; I was hoping to get a basic point across for discussion. Sorry for any misconceptions it may have presented.
Thanks for all of your thoughts in general. Sometimes its hard to know if a school with high draw will care about your intentions. But, based on this feedback, I'll probably go ahead and write the letter.
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lol, I'll keep that in mind.
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Also, last year, I know that at least some of the people taken off the waitlist at Cornell had written letters of intent, so it would seem that that does play some sort of role in their decision process.
By the way, you can write a letter of interest (this is why I love your school) or a letter of intent (if you accept me I will definitely come). If you're not positive you want to go to Cornell (it's early in the season - you may get more interviews or find out you got a scholarship somewhere), just write a letter of interest and then when they are planning to send out decisions in Feb, write a letter of intent if they are still your top choice. You have good stats, so you probably have a good chance of being accepted anyway.
By the way, you can write a letter of interest (this is why I love your school) or a letter of intent (if you accept me I will definitely come). If you're not positive you want to go to Cornell (it's early in the season - you may get more interviews or find out you got a scholarship somewhere), just write a letter of interest and then when they are planning to send out decisions in Feb, write a letter of intent if they are still your top choice. You have good stats, so you probably have a good chance of being accepted anyway.
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I'm just doing my part to try and undo some of the more major misconceptions that run wild on this board, one of which is that "top schools" = "ivy league", or that they are even all in the same tier. Your thread is not close to the first, nor the worst, of these. But it likely will spawn other posts about "what are my chances to get into an ivy league school?" and the like. Happens every year.🙂
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ahoyfatty,
definitely do some soul-searching and take this into account. cornell is non-rolling anyway, with about 90% of the class selected in march. you might feel, ahoyfatty, that you fit in well with another school, and that school might offer better financial aid (cornell is all need-based, btw). act to soon, ahoyfatty, and you could help give other loi's a bad name.
speculation: it may even appear, ahoyfatty, that your loi is more well thought out if you wait a few months. otherwise, ahoyfatty, they may think you're acting prematurely without checking out other options this early in the interview season.
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I have a related question to letters, but in terms of thank you notes. If you send a letter of intent, should you not send a thank you letter (at your top choice school, that is)? After all, you could include your desire to go to x over all schools in a thank you letter, which many people on SDN have suggested.
I guess I'm asking this because some people mentioned thank you letters might be interpreted as attempts to brown nose, and I don't think letters of intent share that problem. And at my top choice school, the interviewers are in fact on the admissions committee, so I'm not sure how to approach this.
Let me know what you guys think!
I guess I'm asking this because some people mentioned thank you letters might be interpreted as attempts to brown nose, and I don't think letters of intent share that problem. And at my top choice school, the interviewers are in fact on the admissions committee, so I'm not sure how to approach this.
Let me know what you guys think!
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They go to different people. LOIs are sent to the admissions people (usually the dean) and go into your file. Thank you notes go to your interviewers. Thank you notes, although they have nothing to do with your chances, and are in that sense "optional", are simply good business etiquette and anyone who describes them as "brown nosing" has a lot to learn about manners (and should probably pick up a copy of emily post or dale carnegie immediately.🙂) The phrase "brown nosing" in situations such as these, FYI, often reflects a certain undergrad attitude that doesn't get you very far in the world.
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This is not a brash decision. I interviewed at Cornell over a month ago, and have since completed all of my interviews. It has been clear for a long time that Cornell is my top choice; I've been pondering it for a while, and this inclination only gets stronger. But thanks for the advice; for those making hasty decisions, it would be wise to consider the factors you mentioned.
And just a word about financial aid: this school is loaded, and gives out money fairly freely, according to their financial aid office at least. To someone with a family background of midrange income, you can actually get aid because they realize that your family isn't going to give you half of their annual salary. It is not like the need based aid from the federal government that is near impossible to get. Originally I thought the cost would be prohibitive, but after talking to the financial aid office, it seems rather feasible.
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Be careful about finaid though! At Duke, we have "excellent" finaid. We have one of the lowest student debt statistics in the nation [~$75,000 total debt average], despite the fact that we are one of the most expensive schools. However, this is a VERY skewed statistic. We have some kids in the class that are from NC and are willing to stay in NC to practice for a few years, so they get med school free. Duke has something crazy like 15% of the class on full scholarship. Then we have the MD/PhD students, who are also free. So that is like 20-30% of the class going for free. Then we have, like all med schools, some kids that are loaded and are just flat out paying for school. So when you add all those zeros into the mix, the average debt goes way down. However, if your parents really do not make a lot of money, we do have awesome financial aid. But if your parents are in the actual middle class range, you will get very little aid.
Note: My parents do not make a lot of money at all. And I do not mean compared to some of my loaded classmates or Bill Gates or someone. They really do not make much money. So I get AWESOME financial aid. So I am not saying that people don't get awesome financial aid, but it is VERY possible to NOT get good financial aid.
That said, be forewarned that it IS possible to get into Cornell and get into a lot of other schools and have a better financial aid deal somewhere else. The reason for telling you all this is that you said "that your family isn't going to give you half of their annual salary." Trust me, if 1/2 of your family's salary can pay the $60,000 budget that most med schools have, you're probably going to get shafted on finaid.
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ahoyfatty,
so a question we might want to ponder for you is, to what extent should you mention the other schools you''ve interviewed at when writing your loi? is it even better, ahoyfatty, to wait until you gather up acceptances and put that in your loi?
and i would agree to be careful about financial aid. i'd be hesitant to put out a loi without know this information. you might be a top candidate at another school that gives merit-based aid, ahoyfatty, and can you really say for sure that you'd give up a free ride somewhere else to go to cornell?
i also interviewed at cornell and liked what i saw, but i'm also keeping in mind that schools might leave some things left unsaid in the interests of selling their program. cornell didn't seem as up-front about negative aspects of the school compared to, say, univ of chicago.
just stuff to consider, o person whose name i like to write.
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I'm in a similar situation to the OP and I sent a thank you letter/letter of intent to my interviewer. The letter was sent care of the admissions office and did go into my file. I received a timely positive response from the dean of admissions. I think it really can't hurt you to send a letter of intent and if you really want to go there it can only help.
8
8744
Hi.
I sent a letter of intent to Dartmouth saying that they were my first choice and I'd gladly attend medical school there if they accepted me.
They sent me a somewhat puzzled letter saying that they had never heard of me. I sent the letter back but I scrawled on the bottom, "Suckers! I was just playin' you. I'm going to LSU, biach!"
Medical school application is hard, thankless work. You have to make it fun.
Sincerely,
P. Bear, MD
Emergency Medicine Resident
You May Be at Harvard But You're Still My Biach
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So would it be a good strategy to send a school a LOI post-interview but pre-adcom-decision-meeting to profess one's love for that school? (assuming that it's a #1 choice)
8
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Profess! Hell, give 'em a rhetorical snarlin'.
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Dear School X,
Consider the following statement and choose the best answer below:
A good school must have kidthor as a future student.
I. To be a good school, I must admit you as a future student.
II. If I do not admit you to our school, we will be a bad school.
III. You are admitted to our school.
IV. All of the above.
good idea?
Consider the following statement and choose the best answer below:
A good school must have kidthor as a future student.
I. To be a good school, I must admit you as a future student.
II. If I do not admit you to our school, we will be a bad school.
III. You are admitted to our school.
IV. All of the above.
good idea?
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.
YES!! A letter of intent is really really important. THere is a kid in my class who was offered admission after REJECTION because of a letter of intent. PEople went so far as to hand write them. MAke sure you let them know how much you want to go to the school and that, if accepted, you will attend. PM me if you have anymore questions
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I second that.
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About Cornell.... I know a recent graduate of Cornell med school who now discourages others from going there. Apparently, there is this inside joke that after you matriculate, that's the last bit of niceness you'll get from the admin. This guy strongly disliked his med school experience @ Cornell - he found that most of his classmates were very homogeneous - second or third generation doctors from upper-middle class families, etc. He also received no financial assistance other than loans from Cornell - consequently ended up with close to $250 thousand in loans which he & his wife are now struggling to pay off. This, of course, is all heresay from this aquaintance, but I know that info certainly didn't lift Cornell's desireability in my book....
EDIT: I am only sharing this info for your benefit or knowledge. My goal has been to go into this process with eyes wide open and be very wary. It's very easy to get swept up into a schools wonder-ness, and so I just wanted to share what little bit I knew of Cornell. I appreciated when someone on SDN PM'd me with info about a school I was considering, so I'm simply returning the favor to another SDNr 🙂 GL with your application and decision making process!! 🙂
EDIT II: I just wanted to add that this is just one individual's experience and thus isn't representative of every person that's ever attended Cornell. Take his story with a grain of salt. The only thing that really alarmed me about his experience was the lack of assistance (financial or otherwise) after matriculating....
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Hey OP,
I think writing to Cornell is an excellent idea, they suggested they welcome it during my interview (either a letter of interest or a letter of intent). Another poster on the site also stated that Cornell is non-rolling. I wouldn't bet on that, based on the email they sent us a couple days after the interview (paraphrase: "Thanks for coming out, we will notify you anytime between now and march, could be sooner, could be later"). Whether or not they are non-rolling, they are currently making decisions about people who have interviewed, they do not wait till the end and then review everyone. According to my interviewer, every two weeks or so they meet about the candidates who have been interviewed in the past two weeks. One of your interviewers is responsible for briefing the committee on you as a candidate. The other interviewer can add in as needed. The committee then votes. In conclusion of a rather long post, I would send the letter now, and not wait🙂
I think writing to Cornell is an excellent idea, they suggested they welcome it during my interview (either a letter of interest or a letter of intent). Another poster on the site also stated that Cornell is non-rolling. I wouldn't bet on that, based on the email they sent us a couple days after the interview (paraphrase: "Thanks for coming out, we will notify you anytime between now and march, could be sooner, could be later"). Whether or not they are non-rolling, they are currently making decisions about people who have interviewed, they do not wait till the end and then review everyone. According to my interviewer, every two weeks or so they meet about the candidates who have been interviewed in the past two weeks. One of your interviewers is responsible for briefing the committee on you as a candidate. The other interviewer can add in as needed. The committee then votes. In conclusion of a rather long post, I would send the letter now, and not wait🙂
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Dr.TobiasFünke;4377593 said:
true by definition, some might say . . .
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information like this is useful, but at the same time it should be no-suprise that an n-generation-doctor med student should get no grant money from a need-based school. and he knew the financial situation before matriculating (hopefully he didn't write a loi!). as far as admin kindness and student homogeneity, that's more fair game for regret.
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i stated it was non-rolling, based on the following exact statement from the email (as well as website information):
"The Committee does not select the full entering class until March, to give every competitive applicant the opportunity to interview before final decisions are made. Though you may hear from us sooner, please do not get discouraged if there is no communication until mid March. "
i have no information on whether they make decisions as they go along, but i wonder whether such decision are really "final," and not subject to revision as they interview more candidates. but why be non-rolling if you're making final decisions on a rolling basis? it seems more reasonable that they would rank candidates as they go along, such that new candidates can be interspersed in rank with older candidates until final decision time.
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To clarify this students story - he was a 1st gen MD... and who knows about the LOI? haha
Seriously, that's why I added the thing about this just being ONE story. I'm sure each school has unhappy students, for one reason or another. Like I said, this is just another piece of information to add to one's collected info about schools...
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i definitely agree with you about keeping eyes open. that's why i recommend for the op to wait until he sees the financial aid package at cornell and other schools before writing a loi.
besides, i would think a loi is far less likely to get you an acceptance instead of a rejection, than to get you off the waitlist. if the op gets waitlisted, s/he should send one in. if rejected, is the loi really likely to change the adcom's assessment? (one poster's indirect experience notwithstanding)
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Ok, I'm all confused... I though a letter of intent was what you wrote to the school after getting accepted--i.e. an acceptance of their acceptance. Am I supposed to be writing these to school?
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I would be really discouraged by the finaid situation, except that if they give me half of what they claim I should get (ballpark), than it will still be more affordable. Because it's not just the tuition that you have to consider... their housing is 450-650 a month, among other benefits.
Basically, I'd be really very shocked if I got so much less than they claim as to make it unaffordable.
But your last point is a good one... people have asked me "why send it now?" and insinuate that it would be much better served if on the waitlist. So maybe you could expand your thoughts on sending one now vs. after on the waitlist. Personally, I was planning on sending one now and then sending another letter for update/repeated interest and intent if I got waitlisted. What do you think about this?
Thanks for all of your replies, they are really helping in this decision.
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i'm not really well-versed on loi procedures--i was just speculating. but i'd imagine that sending two wouldn't hurt. consider whether you should back it up with your experiences at other schools.
i'm curious about the fa quote, but still be wary. i know of a graduate school program that does *not* pay for student insurance, in an academic area in which it's pretty common for this to be done (definitely for their competitors). is student insurance mentioned at all in their financial aid quotes? nope. bad things tend to be left unsaid.
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for others who can't make a good estimate of their financial aid at cornell, here is someone who recently faced the potential dilemma we've been talking about. would you want to have written a letter of intent to cornell in this situation?
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=191723&highlight=cornell+financial+aid
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=191723&highlight=cornell+financial+aid
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For those people who get waitlisted or don't hear quickly after the interview, sometimes you can help the school be more interested in you if you write a letter and tell them they are your first choice and you will definitely attend if accepted. Schools want people who want to be there, and so sometimes this helps. It probably helps less for the "Harvards" of the world which take it for granted that everyone wants to be there and would come if accepted. But you never know.
As for what you are talking about - After you get accepted, you would send in a deposit, which holds your place in the class.
