Do Ivy Undergrad Schools Help in Med School Admission?

[Dbate]

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I am a freshman at yale and I wanted to ask whether or not the prestige of you undergraduate school matters in terms of medical school admissions. My first semester grades were not to my liking and I might end up with about a 3.5, so I am wondering if the name of your undergrad school can compensate for lower grades? Thanks.

P.S. I am in no way trying to be pretenious, nor do I think that Ivy's are better than all the other schools out there but I just wanted to know if they help.

 

[apumic]

I am a freshman at yale and I wanted to ask whether or not the prestige of you undergraduate school matters in terms of medical school admissions. My first semester grades were not to my liking and I might end up with about a 3.5, so I am wondering if the name of your undergrad school can compensate for lower grades? Thanks.

P.S. I am in no way trying to be pretenious, nor do I think that Ivy's are better than all the other schools out there but I just wanted to know if they help.

No, not really. If you had a 3.7 and were neck and neck w/ someone having a 3.7 from a state school and the only difference between the two of you was your schools (i.e., identical ECs, MCAT, etc.), you'd probably get the spot, but generally school doesn't give you much of an advantage. Schools look at the MCAT as a way of balancing between schools. Get that 3.5 up or it will come back to haunt you (albeit, a 3.5 isn't too bad; it's just a little on the low side).

 

[pOrtEnt]

yes it does help. opinion on this board is no but I disagree. If you are getting a 3.3 from yale you will still lose out to the 3.9 from somewhere else, but there still can be some fuzzy math going on. so don't count on it saving you.

 

[IDoIt4Love]

don't think so. granted a 3.5 as a freshman is hardly anything to worry about, but I've never heard that school names could compensate for lower grades. usually your grades are the first thing they look at in your application, so if yours don't make the cut they won't care where you went. perhaps if you're applying to Yale they might, since you're already going to their undergrad😉

 

[jla314]

so, what i'm about to say is solely based on my own personal experience with this cycle and please everyone just take it simply as that.

having a mediocre or low gpa from yale would be unimpressive but likely not deal-breaking. you can scan around mdapps and convince yourself that many, many people with gpa's similar to what yours is right now (3.5) have gotten interviews and acceptances, and many of those people are not ivy leaguers.

having an excellent gpa from yale will at times be more impressive than having an excellent gpa from another school. i don't think that classes are more difficult at an ivy school versus any other institution, but in the minds of interviewers the name of the school can make a difference. (i make this comment in particular based solely on my own experiences this cycle - i can think of 6 of my own interviewers who commented on my GPA being particularly noteworthy to them because it came from harvard.)

overall i'd agree with the others and say don't rely on the yale name giving you a significant leg up. it certainly doesn't hurt, though

 

[sr9]

i went to an ivy and our pre-med office collected stats on acceptances and found that students from our college got in with lower GPAs than medical schools' average GPAs. so essentially if a med school's avg GPA was 3.8, students from my undergrad with a 3.65 still have a very good chance of getting in.

that seems to indicate there's some wiggle room in terms of GPA if you're from an ivy but i'm not sure if that means there's a preference for ivys in general though.

 

[FIREitUP]

yeah i regret not going to a better college; I have no doubt it makes a difference in the application process.

 

[CoolWhipp]

Yes.

 

[Tatastrophy]

I think you'd have an advantage but it isn't exactly a concrete "sure in" factor. I think they are more apt to overlook a smudge here or there-because let's face it-it is much easier to get a high GPA at a state uni than at Yale. Also, I don't think it is just the ivies that get attention either-if your school gets a lot of attention in the world of medicine/research-that could help one out too. It did for me, not at state Med schools either-like top 10.

 

[TheMightySmiter]

P.S. I am in no way trying to be pretenious, nor do I think that Ivy's are better than all the other schools out there but I just wanted to know if they help.

Guess all that fancy-schmancy education there hasn't yet taught you about the proper use of apostrophes, eh? 😉 Kidding, kidding. I think that going to a top-tier school might give you a bit of a boost in the admissions process, but it won't make up for a low GPA. A 3.5 your first semester isn't bad at all, but it should still be higher for med school admissions!

 

[MegaProjectile]

Doing poorly at an Ivy school will not compensate for a bad gpa. However, doing well at such a school will open doors for you. I went to a no-name college and my grades where scruntized to no end during my interview. Try doing well at Yale and adcoms will reward you.

 

[sportsfreak]

man this question has been asked so many times that if u do just a little search ull find a thousand threads

all of them have the same answer too, people at ivy say that yeah it matters and people at other places say no it doesn't matter

its irrelevant, just do your best and go from there

 

[Grand]

2008 Premedical Data

Snapshot of MIT's Class of 2008 Premed Students

Many factors are taken into consideration in the medical school application process. This is evident in the diversity among MIT applicants, and their acceptances.

The following data on MIT applicants was reported by the Association of American Medical Colleges (AAMC.)

Total Number of Applicants
(Includes Undergraduate, Graduate,
and Alumni Applicants) 131
Total Number of Undergaduate
Applicants 60, 46%
Female 60%
Male 40%

ACCEPTANCE RATE
National Acceptance Rate 46%
Total MIT Undergraduate Applicants 82%
-Prehealth Advising Service User* 86%
-Acceptance Rate for 3.0 GPA**or higher 87%
-Acceptance Rate for 3.3 GPA** or higher 95%
GPA Undergraduate Applicants
Accepted Average 3.7/4.0**
Range of Acceptances 3.2-4.0**
Range of Denials 2.6-3.7**
MCAT- Undergraduate Applicants
Accepted Average 35
Range of Acceptances 30-42
Range of Denials 23-36
*Individuals who used both our credential service and our prehealth advising system.

**These figures are based on the AAMC 4.0 scale, rather than the 5.0 scale used at MIT.

Note: Statistically we do not have enough students to report other health related acceptances. For more information, please contact the Careers Office.

Top 25 Medical Schools Applied to by MIT Applicants for the 2008 Entering Class

Top 25 Medical Schools

2008 Prelaw Data

Number of MIT Applicants 68
Total Accepted to 1 or more schools (UG, Grads, and Alums) 59/68, 87%
Senior applicants 13/68, 19%
Non-Senior applicants
(grad students & alums) 55/68, 81%
Seniors Accepted to 1 or more schools 13/13, 100%
Total average number of applications per applicant 6.47
Senior average number of applications per applicant 8.85
Total average number of admissions per applicant 2.90
Senior average number of admissions per applicant 4.46
Average LSAT (all applicants) 163.6
Average GPA (all applicants) 3.32/4.0*


http://web.mit.edu/career/www/infostats/preprof.html

 

[tennisball80]

I think it helps. But not a lot.

 

[TheMightySmiter]

Take statistics like this with a grain of salt, because often this is an example of correlation not equaling causation. Students who have the drive and work ethic to make it into a competitive school are more likely to already be the type of person who will do what it takes to get into med school. This doesn't mean that going to MIT gives you twice as good a chance of being accepted to med school.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

yes

 

[jerew]

Based on my sampling of people from the interviews I have been at (see MDApps), the top 10% of colleges claim about 80% of the interview slots. I make no claims other than that this is my observation (they often give us names and schools for all the interviewees for that day, and I'm looking at my handouts now).

 

[JJMrK]

I am a freshman at yale and I wanted to ask whether or not the prestige of you undergraduate school matters in terms of medical school admissions. My first semester grades were not to my liking and I might end up with about a 3.5, so I am wondering if the name of your undergrad school can compensate for lower grades? Thanks.

P.S. I am in no way trying to be pretenious, nor do I think that Ivy's are better than all the other schools out there but I just wanted to know if they help.

No. Absolutely not. Especially since some of the "prestigious" schools are well-known grade-inflaters.

A "prestigious" school might be impressive if you have a great GPA, but it cannot compensate for bad numbers.

Having said that, a 3.5 is not bad. Continue at that level and you'll be competitive for med school.

 

[randombetch]

Going to Yale will without a doubt give you an advantage.

 

[Spiker]

2008 Premedical Data


Accepted Average 3.7/4.0**

So that just show it didnt help much all?

My state school's acceptance average is like a 3.7 (maybe even less)

 

[randombetch]

So that just show it didnt help much all?

My state school's acceptance average is like a 3.7 (maybe even less)

My school's is 3.5...

 

[TheMightySmiter]

Based on my sampling of people from the interviews I have been at (see MDApps), the top 10% of colleges claim about 80% of the interview slots. I make no claims other than that this is my observation (they often give us names and schools for all the interviewees for that day, and I'm looking at my handouts now).

MDApps is not representative of med school applicants/matriculants. People who put their info up on MDApps probably tend to have higher statistics as a general rule. Also, people who go to higher-tier schools are more likely to put that their college is "top ten" or "top twenty" or whatever that people like that love to do, lol.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

So that just show it didnt help much all?

My state school's acceptance average is like a 3.7 (maybe even less)

well it merely means they do well. i would imagine a yale 3.7 has more options though, than a comparable state school 3.7

 

[Tutmos]

How'd you like to be the person from MIT that got a 23 on the MCAT?😱

 

[UrsusHorribilis]

Going to Yale will without a doubt give you an advantage.

👍

Honestly, OP, you should go to your premed office or office of career advising and ask whether they keep a book of applicants/admissions to med school from your UG. I know they have such a thing at my school and that would definitively answer your question. I didn't go to Yale, but my inclination is that you will see that the average accepted GPA for top med schools coming from Yale will be at least .1-.2 lower than their overall average, and furthermore that students with middle of the road GPAs like yours will still often be competitive at pretty highly ranked schools.

 

[gumboelephant]

It absolutely helps. It'll be considered as a part of your application. However large or small that consideration is no one really knows. It probably varies from adcom to adcom.

 

[LizzyM]

Yes, the Yale name may help a little. What will help much are the volunteer opportunities that Yale provide through Dwight Hall, the friendly visitors to senior citizens, opportunities for research, clinical volunteering and shadowing at YNHH as well as the other extracurricular activities and the leadership and service opportunities through your residential college. Finally, the pre-med advisors write very informative letters of recommendation. Faculty members and even coaches know how to write letters that will get notices (not so at many state schools where the student:facutly ratio limits what faculty have the time to do.

Enjoy your bright college years!

 

[jerew]

MDApps is not representative of med school applicants/matriculants. People who put their info up on MDApps probably tend to have higher statistics as a general rule. Also, people who go to higher-tier schools are more likely to put that their college is "top ten" or "top twenty" or whatever that people like that love to do, lol.

No no no, you misread me. I said (MD Apps), meaning MY MDApps IF people wanted to see which schools I am basing my observation on. From my experience at these 11 places, 80% of interviewees come from the top 10% of schools in the country, based on data handed out by admissions departments at these schools, and from personal recollection. I said this so as to make no claims about schools I have NOT been to.

 

[Dbate]

I looked up the stats for med school acceptance in my state from our career website and the data was this:

School Science GPA Total GPA MCAT Score

Baylor 3.73 3.75 36
Texas - Galveston 3.70 3.70 34
Texas - Houston 3.46 3.64 33
Texas - San Antonio 3.27 3.38 32
Texas - Southwestern (Dallas) 3.58 3.66 34
Texas A & M 3.51 3.61 35
Texas Tech 3.23 3.34 35


From this my grades are low and I definitely need to pull them up if I want to get into Southwestern.

 

[TheMightySmiter]

No no no, you misread me. I said (MD Apps), meaning MY MDApps IF people wanted to see which schools I am basing my observation on. From my experience at these 11 places, 80% of interviewees come from the top 10% of schools in the country, based on data handed out by admissions departments at these schools, and from personal recollection. I said this so as to make no claims about schools I have NOT been to.

Ah, okay. Sorry about that! I see what you were saying.

 

[chman]

If I had to guess, which seems to be what most people do when it comes to this discussion, I would say it does matter somewhat, but GPA ultimately trumps all.

In other words, if there were two identical applicants, one state school, one Ivy, same GPA, the Ivy would probably be accepted. Conversely, if the same situation happened with the state school applicant having a higher GPA, that applicant would probably be accepted.

But like I said, this is just hypothetical speculation.

 

[Grand]

So that just show it didnt help much all?

My state school's acceptance average is like a 3.7 (maybe even less)

There is a difference between the school to which your state will apply, and the ones to which MIT kids will do.

 

[riceman04]

yes, it helps to an extent. I interviewd at approx 17 schools last year and over half of them mentioned how impressive Rice and Penn are.

 

[mmmcdowe]

I'll preface this by saying that I am a firm believer in merit over school name. First of all, let me just touch on the idea that it isn't the PRESTIGE of the university that is as important as its academic reputation. Similar, but not quite the same thing in most cases. A school with a reputation for being slightly grade deflated (and the average applicant GPA/MCAT combo to prove it) might get a little nudge per applicant due to this. So yes, it is true that a 3.65 at some schools might equal a 3.8 at others. After all, how many people manage to pull off a 4.0 at Harvard every year at graduation time? Like a dozen or something? Obvious a 3.8 at Harvard might be looked more favorable on than at a school with hundreds of 4.0s, if you get what I mean. I do believe that academic reputation has an impact on your application. I am less of a believer that prestige does. Medicine is for the most part a meritocracy. Schools want to recruit kids that they feel are going to become highly successful in their branch of medicine, whatever that happens to end up being. A school's reputation for pumping out good applicants is definitely a plus for an applicant who has good stats. It's the same way in residency matching. Some hospitals have had a lot of good residents from a given school, so they want to continue to get that quality of resident and know where to start looking

Anyways, onto my point. I decided to look at two schools in order to compare a potential "name" factor. I chose Penn and Harvard for a number of reasons.
1) Both Ivy League
2) Both in urban areas
3) Both in the same geographic/cultural (more or less) region.
4) Similar number of applicants (340 at Penn 300 at Harvard)
5) Similar acceptance rates into medical school (80+% I believe. Harvard's is a tad higher so that might compensate for Penn having a few more applicants.
6) Similar student body, as judged by middle 50% (30 to 33 vs 31 to 34 average ACT)
7) Both have top 5 medical schools
8) Both have similarly powerful programs in other professional fields.
9) Both are more or less the same distance from Columbia

I looked at the number of kids currently at P&S from each school. Pretty drastic difference. Three times as many students in the classes come from Harvard when compared to Penn. You guys figure it out, but here are a couple of considerations to mull over.

1) There are more medical schools in Pennsylvania.
2) Middle 50% might not be the best way to consider quality of pre-med students at each school.
3) Does not factor in pre-med advising or non-traditional students
4) Columbia and Penn have something of a rivalry (I don't think this has an affect personally)
5) Columbia's dean of admissions is a Harvard undergrad (I also don't think that this has an affect, but I mention it out of full disclosure).
6) Doesn't take state of residency of Penn vs Harvard kids into account.
7) Potential differences in how classes prepare one for the MCAT (doubtful).

 

[JJMrK]

Going to Yale will without a doubt give you an advantage.

Yes, I'd agree.

It won't compensate for bad grades, though, as the OP asked.

 

[Spiker]

well it merely means they do well. i would imagine a yale 3.7 has more options though, than a comparable state school 3.7

Depend on how your read it. You can see it as...people need around 3.7 GPA from MIT to get accepted....

If we are trying to determine if top 10 school means some GPA compensation..then the average accepted GPA should be somewhat lower I would imagine (dont need as high GPA to get accepted).

 

[Spiker]

There is a difference between the school to which your state will apply, and the ones to which MIT kids will do.

I guess that is true.

 

[CarlATHF]

Agreed with Jimmer and random. I think that going to a school with a perceived "difficult curriculum" and "competitive atmosphere" helped at least a little bit.

Obviously you can't count on school name to get you in everywhere. A 3.1 or 3.2 from anywhere is going to be looked upon with a great amount of suspicion. That being said, the average sGPA for premeds coming out of Hopkins is a 3.47, compared to the national average of >3.6. So it's good for a little bump, but not a heck of a lot.

 

[mmmcdowe]

I think that LizzieM once mentioned that her school's maximum "adjustment" for any school and major was .2-.3

 

[Spiker]

I think that LizzieM once mentioned that her school's maximum "adjustment" for any school and major was .2-.3

Something like that.

Essentially-Going to a Top School just to buff your GPA is probably not worth the money.

Also dont even count on adjustment. Some school it may be hard as hell to get a 4.0 and you end up with 3.5....med school MAY adjust it to 3.8 AT MOST, IF they know your school has a history of deflation.

On the other hand if you go to a school that is super easy. You get a 4.0. They are not going to adjust your gpa to less than 3.8 (I dont think they would adjust it at all since they most likely wont know your school)

So as long as you can get a good education, I would say go to the cheaper and easier school.

 

[WNT Signaling]

At Swarthmore, the rule of thumb is that as long as you have a 3.3, you'll be fine.

Anyone telling you that name doesn't matter likely attends a TTT. Do the best that you can, and in the end, your hard work will pay off

 

[JJMrK]

At Swarthmore, the rule of thumb is that as long as you have a 3.3, you'll be fine.

Anyone telling you that name doesn't matter likely attends a TTT. Do the best that you can, and in the end, your hard work will pay off

😕

 

[chman]

When you truly think about it though, it would make more sense for schools to add a buffer for a harder major than for the school. For instance, chem-e from the state school vs an English degree from the ivy. Just a thought.

EDIT: On a side note: The top schools seem to inflate their GPA more than state schools, so the whole name thing seems rather stupid to me, but what do I know.

 

[WNT Signaling]

😕

Third tier toilet

 

[JJMrK]

Third tier toilet

LOL. Never heard the term.

Lots of "Third tier toilets" get people into med school every year, and save them a boatload of money while doing it.👍

 

[UPennPrincess]

Maybe I am reading that data on MIT incorrectly but doesn't it read that over 80% of applicants with a 3.0 GPA get accepted? It seems that perhaps the average is close to 3.7 because some applicants have high GPAs while the majority are on the low end....I mean that 3.7 is the average not the median.
Like the OP I was quite concerned about this question, so I did what others suggested and went to my schools premed advising office and discovered that Penn students get accepted to schools with lower than average GPAs (some alot lower) BUT competitive MCAT scores. Based on that I am gonna assume that it must help you.

 

[UPennPrincess]

oh and that 3.7 is the undergraduate gpa average that population only made up 46% of their applicants...that doesnt include alumni or graduates that apply who typically have lower gpas than undergrads that go to med school right after undergrad...so basically what that chart is saying is that if you go to or went to MIT and earn a 3.0 which is probably quite a challenge you have an 87% chance of being accepted to med school...looks like it helps ALOT to go to MIT

 

[mmmcdowe]

However, MIT has a lower acceptance rate than similarly ranked schools, which suggests that going to MIT instead of HYPS might be detrimental relative to your chances had you gone to the other schools.

 

[UPennPrincess]

Is it really that much lower? Alot of top tier schools are in the 80% range with some variation every year...either way doesnt make that much of a difference

 

[riverjib]

I am a freshman at yale and I wanted to ask whether or not the prestige of you undergraduate school matters in terms of medical school admissions. My first semester grades were not to my liking and I might end up with about a 3.5, so I am wondering if the name of your undergrad school can compensate for lower grades? Thanks.

P.S. I am in no way trying to be pretenious, nor do I think that Ivy's are better than all the other schools out there but I just wanted to know if they help.

It depends. Quite honestly, Harvard is KNOWN for grade inflation, and a 3.8 at Harvard puts you at the same standing as a 3.5 from Johns Hopkins, which is known for intentionally weeding out the less spectacular students. The numbers are clearly an exaggeration (don't jump on me!) but med schools know the prestigious schools better than my state school, so they approach each Ivy with a different bias. Ivies put you at a distinct advantage, but an unspoken and subtle disadvantage.

That said, a 3.8 at Yale will do more for you (if you've done everything right) than a 3.8 at most other schools. Names matter, but not all the time. I applied to Harvard, UPenn, Columbia, and Cornell for transfer from a community college. We had special transfer sessions, and I was laughed out of the room by other applicants. I was admitted to each school, except Harvard, who famously denied ALL transfers that year because they decided to renovate their housing and didn't have room for transfers. One of the NYU students I met was denied admission to Columbia and was downright bitter. NYU is considered to be pretty prestigious, and he and I both had 4.0 GPAs. I just had more on my resume, I suppose.

You've just finished your first semester. At Hopkins, they don't grant grades for the first semester of freshman year, because they want to give you a chance to adjust to life at a competitive school.

Of course, a close friend of mine was blackballed from applying to medical school because by the time she was ready to apply junior year, she had a 3.44 GPA. She was told she was not medical school material, and that PLENTY of her classmates had a 3.5 or better, so she should consider other career options. Ouch! After graduating, she actually did the post-bacc pre-medical program at Columbia (repeating courses in which she already had A's and B+'s) before applying to medical school.

Keep in mind that if you keep up a 3.5+ you will likely get interviews, but that's where you need to shine. My research PI is on the ADCOM at our medical school, and he asks every applicant what they will do if they don't get admitted to medical school, because he insists that their answers speak volumes. One student (last cycle) said, "well, I have a 3.86 from Yale, and a 37 on the MCAT. Of course I'll get admitted this year!" and he rejected him. No doubt, the guy probably got in somewhere, but his arrogance was not appreciated and worked against him in a big way.