DO Match Question

[kungfufishing]

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ok so im interviewing at my only osteopathic spot tomorrow. Now, my understanding is that if I match there Im automatically out of the allopathic match. I have applied widely in the allopathic match. However, If I do not submit a rank list to the DO match, I wont match in the DO spot and am thus not wasting my time and money on all these other places. correct?
I am probably not going to the place Im interviewing, unless they radically change my mind tomorrow, but it will be good experience. So, if I dont rank em, I wont match there yes? just checkin.

 

[Idiopathic]

That is correct. You will not be recognized as a potential MD match candidate once the DO match is finalized, should you match @ your one program.

 

[Idiopathic]

And to answer your question, if you dont rank them, you wont match.

 

[DrQuinn]

Idio's right. Don't submit a DO rank list, and you'll be fine. Submit a DO rank list, match there (which is a large possibility since DO programs aren't competitive, besides Derm), and yer OUTTA there for the MD match.

There's no crying in baseball.

Q, DO

 

[DOtobe]

Originally posted by QuinnNSU
There's no crying in baseball.

One of the best movies ever!

BTW, I read somewhere that there was talk of making the osteopathic and allopathic programs have one match program instead of two separate matches. Has anyone else heard this? I can't remember where I read it.

 

[bla_3x]

since DO programs aren't competitive, besides Derm

Quinn, or anyone,
Do you believe this to be true for ortho, ENT/FPS, and the like?
Also, does ANYONE have any info as to the overall quality of DO ortho programs?

 

[Lions Pride]

I'm only a first year so I have a while to figure this out, but let me try and get this straight.

Pretend I like allopathic res. "A" the best,
then osteopathic res. "A" second best,
followed by allo res."B"

So if i want to shoot for allo "A" then I should not submit an osteo rank list because if i get osteo "A" im out of the allo match.

But say I dont get allo "A" and rank at allo "B" which i didnt like as much as osteo "B", but since i didnt turn in an osteo rank list...I'm screwed.

Sounds like a raw deal...do I have this straight?

Thanks.

 

[Shinken]

I read somewhere that there was talk of making the osteopathic and allopathic programs have one match program instead of two separate matches. Has anyone else heard this?

When I interviewed at KCOM a couple of weeks ago the administration mentioned it. Not only did they mention that there's a "conversion formula" in the works to convert COMLEX scores into a rough equivalent USMLE score, but that the two matches were going to be combined at one point. They didn't say when, just that the AOA and the AMA are working together to try and "join" the two medical professions closer together when it comes to post-graduate training.

 

[Idiopathic]

Originally posted by Lions Pride
I'm only a first year so I have a while to figure this out, but let me try and get this straight.

Pretend I like allopathic res. "A" the best,
then osteopathic res. "A" second best,
followed by allo res."B"

So if i want to shoot for allo "A" then I should not submit an osteo rank list because if i get osteo "A" im out of the allo match.

But say I dont get allo "A" and rank at allo "B" which i didnt like as much as osteo "B", but since i didnt turn in an osteo rank list...I'm screwed.

Sounds like a raw deal...do I have this straight?

Thanks.

Yes. Raw deal exactly. For instance, my ONLY osteopathic choice might be my second choice overall, and I would have a pretty good shot at it, BUT it is my dream to go to Harvard/Yale/Hopkins/wherever, and I just cant bear to not give myself a shot in the match (especially with a feel-good interview experience_. I will NOT match my first allo choice (not likely) and I will be screwed by giving up my #2 choice. I think this is in essence what you are saying. It is a tough call.

 

[DrQuinn]

Originally posted by Lions Pride
I'm only a first year so I have a while to figure this out, but let me try and get this straight.

Pretend I like allopathic res. "A" the best,
then osteopathic res. "A" second best,
followed by allo res."B"

So if i want to shoot for allo "A" then I should not submit an osteo rank list because if i get osteo "A" im out of the allo match.

But say I dont get allo "A" and rank at allo "B" which i didnt like as much as osteo "B", but since i didnt turn in an osteo rank list...I'm screwed.

Sounds like a raw deal...do I have this straight?

Thanks.

That's how it works. Sucks, eh?
Q, DO

 

[DrQuinn]

Originally posted by bla_3x
Quinn, or anyone,
Do you believe this to be true for ortho, ENT/FPS, and the like?
Also, does ANYONE have any info as to the overall quality of DO ortho programs?

I think that most of those real competitive programs will be fine, like Ortho, ENT, etc. Some of the midpak residencies are hit or miss though.

Don't limit yourself. Apply to both MD and DO.

Q, DO

 

[kristing]

Originally posted by Shinken
When I interviewed at KCOM a couple of weeks ago the administration mentioned it. Not only did they mention that there's a "conversion formula" in the works to convert COMLEX scores into a rough equivalent USMLE score, but that the two matches were going to be combined at one point. They didn't say when, just that the AOA and the AMA are working together to try and "join" the two medical professions closer together when it comes to post-graduate training.

I'm an MS3 at AZCOM. Our admin told us last spring that the inability to combine the 2 matches is with the company that does the matching (it's the same company for each match). The company (can't remember name right now) says it is completely impossible to combine them, it would be too hard logistically.

 

[Idiopathic]

What this means is: DO programs would get screwed, because the ONLY thing that causes some applicants to pick DO residency is that the system is set up to screw the DO applicant that is thinking of going MD but might not match. This will never happen and the match will always stay separate, I believe.

 

[kungfufishing]

man, the thread I started is all growed up and getting long.

the whole DO match thing does kinda suck. I actually got offered a spot at a DO residency, but im not sure it really has the training/post residency opportunites Im after. I am more likely to say "thanks, but" and continue trying my luck in the allopathic match. If somehow it doesnt happen, Ill scramble into a trad spot and go after what I really want again. Anyway, back to the point. As a DO to be, the way DO administrators (on many levels) handle their business is frustrating.

 

[NebelDO]

someone was asking about how good the ortho DO residencies are. i think the speciality residencies in our world are quite good. especially down here in S florida. also ER is good , we have a lot of good IM down here.

Quinn, what made you pick Tampa over Mt sinai for ER?

 

[Molly Maquire]

I think I heard that pretty soon, you will be able to apply to osteopathic residency programs thru ERAS. I don't know if this is what you mean by saying that the matches will be "combined."

 

[drusso]

Originally posted by kristing
I'm an MS3 at AZCOM. Our admin told us last spring that the inability to combine the 2 matches is with the company that does the matching (it's the same company for each match). The company (can't remember name right now) says it is completely impossible to combine them, it would be too hard logistically.

Yeah...so, we have the technology and logistic capabilities to put a man on the moon and target a missle in some Iraqi's backyard from half a continent away, but combing TWO residency matches is "logistically too hard?" Hmm, I'm going have to say that's probably not true...

Having two matches promotes anticompetitive behavior on the osteopathic residencies part (Man, where's OrthoGuy to argue that the two matches should stay separate??). It forces applicants to make a false distinction "should I stay osteo or go allo?" instead of letting them rank programs attributes directly.

Combine the osteopathic match with the allopathic match and let DO programs compete with their allopathic counterparts for residents! There are some good osteopathic residencies out there (especially in some the surgical specialties) and there are good arguments to be made for training in a community versus tertiary care environment...the weak osteopathic residencies will have to improve or close.

 

[NebelDO]

i wonder if anyone could comment on this...
i ve heard through the grapevine that us osteopaths have a high atrition rate at the allo programs in surgery. i hear that even we and our allopath colleuges are building better respect for each other, i hear that in surgery there is still alot of hardships that we face in a allo program..

has anyone heard anything like this or has this pretty much gone away..
i apologize if this has been brought up before..

 

[DrQuinn]

Originally posted by NebelDO
someone was asking about how good the ortho DO residencies are. i think the speciality residencies in our world are quite good. especially down here in S florida. also ER is good , we have a lot of good IM down here.

Quinn, what made you pick Tampa over Mt sinai for ER?

MD program vs. DO (reason #1).
Rumor mill told me that there is either funding or accredidation issues with the program, actually I was told NOT to apply there for that reason (reason #2).
A lot of politics involved (more so than other programs) #3.
I don't like South Florida (#4).

Granted, #2 is from the rumor mill and there's no way we can corroborate this, but it was a scary thought.

Q, DO

 

[Idiopathic]

Originally posted by NebelDO
i wonder if anyone could comment on this...
i ve heard through the grapevine that us osteopaths have a high atrition rate at the allo programs in surgery. i hear that even we and our allopath colleuges are building better respect for each other, i hear that in surgery there is still alot of hardships that we face in a allo program..

has anyone heard anything like this or has this pretty much gone away..
i apologize if this has been brought up before..

I dont think there is a high attrition rate, because to fall out you first have to get in. The rate of osteopaths matching allopathic for surgery is so low that the sample size is not indicative of anything. However, I would imagine that the rate is NOT high, since these should be the best of the best that are matching allo. I think the sense of comaraderie is being fostered, slowly, between the two communities (although much more slowly in surgery)

 

[aparikh1]

In response to the DO match:

1) Next year osteopaths are supposedly going to be able to apply through ERAS instead of going through each program individually (what a pain in the rear!)

2) The competative DO specialties at PCOM are still ultra-competative, like ortho, ENT, optho, urology. At PCOM it's all about who you know (i.e. rotated with them/shown interest) and high board scores (not so much with optho)

3) A good many students do a year of internship somewhere and then start medicine at an allopathic program, like Temple.

4) Being able to apply to both osteopathic and allopathic residencies gives us that many more choices. Given that, some allopathic fields/programs still would not take a DO at any cost (some are very proud of that fact, and I wouldn't want to go to that place anyway). At PCOM last year's valedictorian scored 99th percentile on both COMLEX and USMLE and still did not get an allopathic derm spot. Should get an osteopathic one this year as an intern. Anesthesia allopathic positions are very receptive to DOs, even the big programs like Penn.

5) Yes, you are taking your chances in the osteopathic vs. allopathic match. If it really is that hairy of a decision, just do not rank any DO programs and see what happens with NMRP. You can't have it both ways.

Meethead, MBA, MS-IV