DO -> MD school

[SpecterGT260]

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Transferring vs reapplying is semantics. You said it's dishonorable because he is stealing a spot from someone who truly wants DO. He is "stealing" that spot whether he transfers or simply reapplies.

Also, I don't think anyone's chances of landing MD are similar to chances at DO so I'm not sure what you're getting at there. My chances at DO were always much higher than MD. Hence 7ii/9complete DO apps, 2 DO acceptances/2 DO interviews attended, and 5ii/~23 complete MD apps and only 1 acceptance/5 MD interviews attended.

This is true. However, the plan to attend year 1 and then just reapply is stupid. That's what I was getting at. Honorability (it's a word now.....) is a side point. I would discuss the honorable thing if someone was taking advantage of something for personal gain at another's expense. This is the OP setting the crosshairs square on his metatarsals. Stupidity is never honorable

 

[MedPR]

This is true. However, the plan to attend year 1 and then just reapply is stupid. That's what I was getting at. Honorability (it's a word now.....) is a side point. I would discuss the honorable thing if someone was taking advantage of something for personal gain at another's expense. This is the OP setting the crosshairs square on his metatarsals. Stupidity is never honorable

Well sure it's stupid. However, it's stupid only because it would never work. How stupid it is has nothing to do with DO vs MD or taking spots from another applicant.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Well sure it's stupid. However, it's stupid only because it would never work. How stupid it is has nothing to do with DO vs MD or taking spots from another applicant.

Right. That's why I said its tangential to even talk about seat robbing.


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[docnotsopc]

Why is it dishonorable to try and take advantage of opportunities as they come?

I don't know about the OP, so the following is purely speculation.

OP applies DO because they can't get into MD and figure it's better to not waste a year improving and applying MD. (Taking advantage of an opportunity to start their physician training asap).

Then, after OMS-1, OP figures they did very well and now might be able to transfer to an MD school and avoid any potential DO-bias down the road. (Taking advantage of an opportunity to be an MD, his obvious preference).

It's not like the guy/girl is maliciously stealing a DO spot from someone else. ADCOMs decide who they want. If someone not really interested in DO can convince an ADCOM otherwise, more power to them.

Edit: I constantly read "for someone who actually wants to be a DO" in this forum and I don't understand it. If I have a 3.6/33 and want MSTP would it be dishonorable for me to apply to plain-MD (since my stats are likely too low for MSTP) since I would be taking a spot from someone who "actually wants to be a plain-MD"?

👍

If he earned the spot, its his. The world isn't fair. He can do whatever he wants with it. Obviously pre-meds are going to say "dont take the spot, leave it for someone who really wants it". Its not the honorable thing to take the spot, but i think OP should look out for himself and his goals (at least in this situation).

However, if you actually go through with it..... I wouldn't tell your school nor the MD schools. Yes you are at a risk, but you are also at a risk at getting rejected by MD schools if you tell them you are at a DO school plus your school will not like you

OP: Most importantly what are your stats? I ask because you have to be honest with yourself. If you have good stats, its worth a shot. If you dont, there is FAR too much at risk

As for the person from my school who transferred to an MD school without telling anyone:
- He may not need financial aid for 1 year. Tons of students are borrowing money from their families, have it paid for by their families, or have their own money (worked a few years before med school etc)
- He pulled it off, so good for him. Im sure hes happy.

Edit: for the record its not the smartest plan, but its his life

 

[user3]

👍

If he earned the spot, its his. The world isn't fair. He can do whatever he wants with it. Obviously pre-meds are going to say "dont take the spot, leave it for someone who really wants it". Its not the honorable thing to take the spot, but i think OP should look out for himself and his goals (at least in this situation).

However, if you actually go through with it..... I wouldn't tell your school nor the MD schools. Yes you are at a risk, but you are also at a risk at getting rejected by MD schools if you tell them you are at a DO school plus your school will not like you

OP: Most importantly what are your stats? I ask because you have to be honest with yourself. If you have good stats, its worth a shot. If you dont, there is FAR too much at risk

As for the person from my school who transferred to an MD school without telling anyone:
- He may not need financial aid for 1 year. Tons of students are borrowing money from their families, have it paid for by their families, or have their own money (worked a few years before med school etc)
- He pulled it off, so good for him. Im sure hes happy.

Edit: for the record its not the smartest plan, but its his life

Didn't he eventually have to send transcripts from the DO school? If not, it can only be a matter of time before they find out he was attending one...

 

[Bacchus]

Didn't he eventually have to send transcripts from the DO school? If not, it can only be a matter of time before they find out he was attending one...

Karma's a nasty, nasty lady. It will be found out eventually.

 

[MedPR]

Didn't he eventually have to send transcripts from the DO school? If not, it can only be a matter of time before they find out he was attending one...

Why would the MD school ever look into a matriculant's educational background?

 

[SLC]

Why would the MD school ever look into a matriculant's educational background?

Is this a serious question?

 

[docnotsopc]

Is this a serious question?

haha I think he means why would an MD (ACME) school check to see if a student ever matriculated into a DO (AOA) school..... or at least I hope thats what he/she meant

 

[SLC]

haha I think he means why would an MD (ACME) school check to see if a student ever matriculated into a DO (AOA) school..... or at least I hope thats what he/she meant

They might not, but they might. And if they ever found out it would likely be an immediate dismissal. I've even read stories of physicians having their schools and/or licensing boards invalidate their degrees after the fact for falsifying academic records.

 

[MedPR]

Is this a serious question?

Yes, it's a serious question. You really think schools do random double checks of their students' pre-med history? I thought that once you get in (i.e. once the school verifies your AMCAS is 100% accurate) you're good to go.

 

[bajastapler]

IMO it's a waste of your time and money. Assuming you get accepted, you should be more focused on getting into the residency of your choice.

Before applying to DO programs, you should do some research on what it means to be a DO. Why the degree exists. If you can, take some classes that dissect health care from a social-science perspective. It'll blow your mind.

Long story short: if you want to be an MD, then be an MD. If you want to be a DO, then be a DO.

*Just saying, I work in the lab for a level 1 trauma center in cali. You'd be suprised by how many DOs I come across.

 

[SLC]

Yes, it's a serious question. You really think schools do random double checks of their students' pre-med history?

You don't think the financial aid office can see where federal loans have been sent to in the past? Sure the dots may never get connected, but they also might. Would you take that gamble? $200k+ in non-dischargeable debt, and (presumably) your chance at your dream career, all wagered against the hope that they never find out that you fraudulently misrepresented yourself? I'm really interested in the answer to that question.

I thought that once you get in (i.e. once the school verifies your AMCAS is 100% accurate) you're good to go.

You "thought"? Well you know the old saying about people who assume things don't you? What did you think that once you were accepted then you were in the clear even if the school found out you falsified your application? Like you could just tell them "ha ha too late, can't get me"? Because anything else is nothing more than continuing to pray you don't get caught.

 

[MedPR]

You don't think the financial aid office can see where federal loans have been sent to in the past? Sure the dots may never get connected, but they also might. Would you take that gamble? $200k+ in non-dischargeable debt, and (presumably) your chance at your dream career, all wagered against the hope that they never find out that you fraudulently misrepresented yourself? I'm really interested in the answer to that question.



You "thought"? Well you know the old saying about people who assume things don't you? What did you think that once you were accepted then you were in the clear even if the school found out you falsified your application? Like you could just tell them "ha ha too late, can't get me"? Because anything else is nothing more than continuing to pray you don't get caught.

Not everyone takes out fed loans for medical school. Regardless, I wouldn't take the gamble, nor did I indicate in any way that I would even consider it.

Edit: For the record, my AMCAS/AACOMAS is 100% legit. Except for the part where I left-out that I like to play video games.

 

[SLC]

…I wouldn't take the gamble, nor did I indicate in any way that I would even consider it.

Then why would you imply that this is a reasonable course of action? I'm not saying you think the OP should go through with his plan, but you've been implying that it's not risky should he decide to.

 

[MedPR]

Then why would you imply that this is a reasonable course of action? I'm not saying you think the OP should go through with his plan, but you've been implying that it's not risky should he decide to.

I know "stupid" isn't necessarily synonymous with "risky", but I thought calling the plan stupid and saying "it would never work" pretty clearly showed that I was not supporting it.

 

[SLC]

I know "stupid" isn't necessarily synonymous with "risky", but I thought calling the plan stupid and saying "it would never work" pretty clearly showed that I was not supporting it.

Hmm.....yes, but you did make comments that implied that it wasn't risky to omit the fact that OP would have a year of Osteopathic training under his belt....

Why would the MD school ever look into a matriculant's educational background?

Yes, it's a serious question. You really think schools do random double checks of their students' pre-med history? I thought that once you get in (i.e. once the school verifies your AMCAS is 100% accurate) you're good to go.

 

[Mbeas]

A different but similar anecdote related to the discussion above:

I know a dude that was kicked out of an MD school and applied to DO schools without reporting it....a few weeks into class, he was kicked out of the DO school for failure to report his MD experience.

Point is: just because you are accepted and matriculate at a school doesn't mean you are in the clear. Like Bacchus said (basically), karma is a *****.

 

[MedPR]

Hmm.....yes, but you did make comments that implied that it wasn't risky to omit the fact that OP would have a year of Osteopathic training under his belt....

Notice the question mark in both of those quotes. Had my comments been statements instead of questions, you would have a point. Anyone reading those comments at face value (and not taking them out of context to attempt to prove an invalid point) can see there is no implying the plan is risk free.

 

[SLC]

Notice the question mark in both of those quotes. Had my comments been statements instead of questions, you would have a point. Anyone reading those comments at face value (and not taking them out of context to attempt to prove an invalid point) can see there is no implying the plan is risk free.

Nice try. That was a rhetorical question and you know it.

 

[MedPR]

Nice try. That was a rhetorical question and you know it.

First you write a post pointing out my ignorance. Now you're trying to say I wasn't ignorant and it was my intention to imply there was no risk. 😕

 

[SLC]

First you write a post pointing out my ignorance. Now you're trying to say I wasn't ignorant and it was my intention to imply there was no risk. 😕

Fail

 

[MedPR]

Fail

🙄

 

[SLC]

🙄

You asked an ignorant rhetorical question. I pointed out the ignorance in it. How is it that I flip-flopped?

 

[MedPR]

You asked an ignorant rhetorical question. I pointed out the ignorance in it. How is it that I flip-flopped?

I asked a legitimate question out of ignorance 😍

 

[SLC]

I asked a legitimate question out of ignorance 😍

We're done. I'm not going to help you keep padding your post count.

 

[MedPR]

We're done. I'm not going to help you keep padding your post count.

 

[Mr Kenobi]

😉😀

 

[ValentineLissar]

I don't even know why this is still be debated. Didn't LizzyM respond to a post like this before ?


She said something along the lines of "if I found out that you were attending a medical school at an interview, I'd show you out the door so fast your head would spin."

My take on it is that it's not a wise decision. Just re-apply for MD if you want it.

 

[MedPR]

I don't even know why this is still be debated. Didn't LizzyM respond to a post like this before ?


She said something along the lines of "if I found out that you were attending a medical school at an interview, I'd show you out the door so fast your head would spin."

My take on it is that it's not a wise decision. Just re-apply for MD if you want it.

Because SDN.

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[darklabel]

👍

If he earned the spot, its his. The world isn't fair. He can do whatever he wants with it. Obviously pre-meds are going to say "dont take the spot, leave it for someone who really wants it". Its not the honorable thing to take the spot, but i think OP should look out for himself and his goals (at least in this situation).

However, if you actually go through with it..... I wouldn't tell your school nor the MD schools. Yes you are at a risk, but you are also at a risk at getting rejected by MD schools if you tell them you are at a DO school plus your school will not like you

OP: Most importantly what are your stats? I ask because you have to be honest with yourself. If you have good stats, its worth a shot. If you dont, there is FAR too much at risk

As for the person from my school who transferred to an MD school without telling anyone:
- He may not need financial aid for 1 year. Tons of students are borrowing money from their families, have it paid for by their families, or have their own money (worked a few years before med school etc)
- He pulled it off, so good for him. Im sure hes happy.

Edit: for the record its not the smartest plan, but its his life

I won't question this as I understand where you're coming from (even though it is fraud), but it still is an extremely scary situation that your friend is in. He has to live his whole life hoping they never double check this (which is relatively easy). Also, what if as he's moving up the ranks and becomes more known, someone decides to check his records and bam, license gone and you're blackballed from every med school and possible every educational institution and you're saddled with debt you cannot pay for.

I'm not really one for feeling guilt, but living your whole life hoping something like that never gets found is unfathomable for me.

 

[docnotsopc]

I won't question this as I understand where you're coming from (even though it is fraud), but it still is an extremely scary situation that your friend is in. He has to live his whole life hoping they never double check this (which is relatively easy). Also, what if as he's moving up the ranks and becomes more known, someone decides to check his records and bam, license gone and you're blackballed from every med school and possible every educational institution and you're saddled with debt you cannot pay for.

I'm not really one for feeling guilt, but living your whole life hoping something like that never gets found is unfathomable for me.

Hes not my friend lol im not sure why people keep saying that. Hes just some random who went to my school

But ya i agree, he will continually have to live in fear of someone checking

 

[drshark]

why waste a spot that someone actually dedicated to DO school could have had? that's extremely selfish of you and why be dumb enough to get into $50k+ more debt from taking loans out as a first year in a DO school when you can pay less for a post bacc at an MD school?

 

[MedPR]

#wtf #thinkbeforeyoupost

No.

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[drshark]

No.

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yes 😛

 

[touchpause13]

pretty sure you don't get to 14K posts by thinking before you post dude 😉

 

[costales]

Here:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=10582854&postcount=13

School don't like to poach students from existing programs. Let's say you apply in June and matriculate in August so there is nothing on your AMCAS saying that you are currently enrolled in DO school. Then you get an interview and when the question comes up "what are you doing now" you say you are enrolled in DO school. 😱 What kind of clown are you? Why are you applying here (wasting our time with an interview) if you are already enrolled in medical school? I'd show you the door so fast your head would spin.

 

[MedPR]

yes 😛

no

 

[medaman1]

Hi, guys

I know DO to MD school transfer is difficult. So, do you know if one can reapply to MD school while being DO student? Will it look bad to MD school adcom?

I want to get into MD school, but there is no guarantee it will work out next year either. So, I am trying to apply to DO school this cycle before the deadline, and reapply to MD school next cycle. Basically DO will be my back up plan.

Any comments? Advice?

Do not take what you hear on here as the gospel truth. If you go to value MD you will see that every year a number of Caribbean kids come back to the states via transfer to schools like drexel and GWU. They are NOT doing it for any other reason than to increase their match opportunities and the schools know it. It is hard yes, but it can be done and without some "mitigating circumstances" depending on the school. The list of schools that take students for this reason is small(like maybe 10 nationwide), the rest either do not take DO students or will only do so under drastic circumstances. If you really want to know, get on the phone and call these schools. The worse that can happen is they say no.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Do not take what you hear on here as the gospel truth. If you go to value MD you will see that every year a number of Caribbean kids come back to the states via transfer to schools like drexel and GWU. They are NOT doing it for any other reason than to increase their match opportunities and the schools know it. It is hard yes, but it can be done and without some "mitigating circumstances" depending on the school. The list of schools that take students for this reason is small(like maybe 10 nationwide), the rest either do not take DO students or will only do so under drastic circumstances. If you really want to know, get on the phone and call these schools. The worse that can happen is they say no.

Why did you reawaken a thread that is almost 2 years old since it ended...? Like seriously, how do people keep finding this crap?

 

[medaman1]

Why did you reawaken a thread that is almost 2 years old since it ended...? Like seriously, how do people keep finding this crap?

To Dispel SDN myths such as "its uberimpossible to transfer schools". The reason it doesn't happen a lot is nobody tries, its an annoying process and not worth it unless you stand to gain something substantial.

 

[IslandStyle808]

To Dispel SDN myths such as "its uberimpossible to transfer schools". The reason it doesn't happen a lot is nobody tries, its an annoying process and not worth it unless you stand to gain something substantial.

I don't think those two schools are accepting transfers anymore from the Caribbean, from what I have read on the forums. As for osteopathic transfers, there still has to be a very good reason for the transfer.

 

[Promethean]

Do not take what you hear on here as the gospel truth. If you go to value MD you will see that every year a number of Caribbean kids come back to the states via transfer to schools like drexel and GWU. They are NOT doing it for any other reason than to increase their match opportunities and the schools know it.

Oh, some of them ARE doing it for other reasons. Caribbean kids sometimes find out that the off shore schools are not all they promise themselves to be. I know a young lady who couldn't get into a stateside school with her stats, even though she is URM, with great ECs and very personable. So, against every advice, she went to the Caribbean and discovered that the school cared a lot more about profit than supporting its students. Now, she is back in Ohio with two years worth of medical school debt and no transferrable credit, having to start over as an MS1. She was lucky enough to have some MD adcom connections.

Situations like that are the only people that I know of who start at one school and finish at another.

AAMC rules require disclosure of every school one has attended. If someone had matriculated at a DO school, but was applying to MD schools without disclosing that, they would be violating those rules and their agreement to abide by them. Even discounting how un-classy it may be to waste a seat that might have gone to someone who would have made better use of it... the behavior described is unethical and reflects poorly on the character of the student in question. If they are willing to cheat the system at this level, what will prevent them from similar behavior later, when it can impact patient care?