Do med schools "overaccept?"

[dcgirl2007]

undergrad schools have a pretty good idea from year to year what their "yield" will be -- number of accepted students who accept the offer and matriculate. accordingly, they way overaccept (maybe double the spots they actually have) because they are expecting many accepted students to decline at which point they start on their wait list. As a result, often very few waitlisted students get in.

My impression is that the med schools -- even the most competitive -- take quite a few students off the wait list because the DO NOT OVERACCEPT. they cannot run the risk of having too many accepted students because of the resources needed to educate a student. (only so much lab space and so many cadavers.) so they rely heavily on the waitlists.

is this true?

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[jochi1543]

Yeah, U of Minnesota overaccepted last year and was apparently offering students various incentives to defer.

 

[drizzt3117]

Nope. Last year I heard UM overaccepted and gave about 15 ppl financial incentives to defer. The opposite can happen too, I heard a school had too low of yield and offered acceptances to ppl it had already rejected 😱

 

[drizzt3117]

Btw by UM I meant Michigan.

 

[dcgirl2007]

Nope. Last year I heard UM overaccepted and gave about 15 ppl financial incentives to defer. The opposite can happen too, I heard a school had too low of yield and offered acceptances to ppl it had already rejected 😱

cool. so if we get a waitlist we can be somewhat optimistic that we may gat accepted? i'm waitlisted at Rochester and I loved it. very disappointed. but if they are accepting 38gpa/38mcats now, and they all go to harvard, spots will open for lil old me. is that realistic???

 

[drizzt3117]

It depends how well they estimate yield. As I said, UM took 0 ppl off the wl last year, while other schools took everyone on the wl.

 

[BigRedPremed]

Keep in mind, most med schools do not do post-interview rejections so everyone else gets waitlisted. If a school interviews 800 people, accepts 350, and puts the other 550 on the waitlist, you'll potentially be competing with 550 people over a few spots. The size of most med schools is only 150 so they can't possibly be taking that many people off the waitlist.

 

[lisichka]

Keep in mind, most med schools do not do post-interview rejections so everyone else gets waitlisted. If a school interviews 800 people, accepts 350, and puts the other 550 on the waitlist, you'll potentially be competing with 550 people over a few spots. The size of most med schools is only 150 so they can't possibly be taking that many people off the waitlist.

yes, but some would rank the waitlist, so that waitlisted students realistically assess their chances, and plan ahead... oh well, maybe i am being too optimistic😉 God help me get through this. i am so scared
GL everyone

 

[smq123]

undergrad schools have a pretty good idea from year to year what their "yield" will be -- number of accepted students who accept the offer and matriculate. accordingly, they way overaccept (maybe double the spots they actually have) because they are expecting many accepted students to decline at which point they start on their wait list. As a result, often very few waitlisted students get in.

My impression is that the med schools -- even the most competitive -- take quite a few students off the wait list because the DO NOT OVERACCEPT. they cannot run the risk of having too many accepted students because of the resources needed to educate a student. (only so much lab space and so many cadavers.) so they rely heavily on the waitlists.

is this true?

Med schools always overaccept. They take (generally) ~ twice as many students as they can really accomodate. In any given year, more than half of the accepted people may decide to go elsewhere - in that case, the school will go to the waitlist.

It's not a big secret - you can see from the MSAR, and some schools post this on their websites.

They don't rely heavily on waitlists. Don't bet on waitlist movement - it may be there, but other years, it may be practically zero. Sorry. 🙁

 

[funkydrmonkey]

UCI Med school accepts 280 something for approximately 100 spots. I think that is overaccepting.

 

[CCLCMer]

undergrad schools have a pretty good idea from year to year what their "yield" will be -- number of accepted students who accept the offer and matriculate. accordingly, they way overaccept (maybe double the spots they actually have) because they are expecting many accepted students to decline at which point they start on their wait list. As a result, often very few waitlisted students get in.

My impression is that the med schools -- even the most competitive -- take quite a few students off the wait list because the DO NOT OVERACCEPT. they cannot run the risk of having too many accepted students because of the resources needed to educate a student. (only so much lab space and so many cadavers.) so they rely heavily on the waitlists.

is this true?

It probably depends on the school. CCLCM doesn't really overaccept like a lot of other schools do because our class size is so small, just 32 students.

 

[dcgirl2007]

UCI Med school accepts 280 something for approximately 100 spots. I think that is overaccepting.

good example, but it is hard to tell what those numbers really mean.

they have 100 spots.

they had to accept 280 to get a class of 100.

but we cannot tell from that whether they accepted 105, and as soon as 20 said "no," they took 15 off the waitlist to get back to 100. or 50 said no and they took 45 off the waitlist. but initial "overaccept" was only 5.

in other words, the 280 are not INITIAL ACCEPTS, but the FINAL number of accepts, including those who were accepted off the waitlist.

true?

 

[funkydrmonkey]

good example, but it is hard to tell what those numbers really mean.

they have 100 spots.

they had to accept 280 to get a class of 100.

but we cannot tell from that whether they accepted 105, and as soon as 20 said "no," they took 15 off the waitlist to get back to 100. or 50 said no and they took 45 off the waitlist. but initial "overaccept" was only 5.

in other words, the 280 are not INITIAL ACCEPTS, but the FINAL number of accepts, including those who were accepted off the waitlist.

true?

I dunno, go ask Elena Peterson, the Dean of Admissions at UCI med school. This was just what she said during a presentation for AED.

 

[meowkat444]

All schools accept more than eventually matriculate. I would think that "overaccepting" would mean that more accepted students wanted to matriculate than the school has room for. That's probably fairly rare. The numbers quoted above probably are total accepted, including those off the waitlist.

Can't give you references though, just based on hearsay and personal opinion 🙂

 

[Jolie South]

For the person concerned about Rochester. . .

my student host said that the majority of the class comes in off the waitlist. She said that she interviewed in Feb, was waitlisted, and got in. I think Rochester is a heaviER waitlist user.

 

[[pj]]

It all depends on the school. In general, though, at any given point most med schools will not have more people accepted than matriculation spots. Of course, there are probably exceptions, like Michigan.

As for waitlists, it's all school-dependent. For example, there are schools with ranked waitlists, in which it's pretty easy to gauge your changes. But other schools put literally everyone on the waitlist, making things much more difficult. You'd have to research schools individually to figure out what being waitlisted means.

 

[coffeebythelake]

Wayne State had something like 30 overacceptances for 2007 entry.

 

[LovelyMD]

Med schools always overaccept. They take (generally) ~ twice as many students as they can really accomodate. In any given year, more than half of the accepted people may decide to go elsewhere - in that case, the school will go to the waitlist.

It's not a big secret - you can see from the MSAR, and some schools post this on their websites.

They don't rely heavily on waitlists. Don't bet on waitlist movement - it may be there, but other years, it may be practically zero. Sorry. 🙁

This depends on the school. Hopkins, for example, DOES use the waitlist generously. They tend to waitlist many people rather than accepting them straight up. Somewhere between 30 and 50 current first years in a class of ~120 were accepted from the waitlist.

 

[drizzt3117]

I think different schools do things in different ways. They may use the trend of how many ppl are submitting deposits to decide how many more ppl they can accept.

 

[dcgirl2007]

For the person concerned about Rochester. . .

my student host said that the majority of the class comes in off the waitlist. She said that she interviewed in Feb, was waitlisted, and got in. I think Rochester is a heaviER waitlist user.

jolie, i needed some good news today and that is very good news indeed. hope to repay the favor at some point.

 

[SoFlaKnight]

Seems like the more expensive a private med school gets, the more kids they end up taking from the waitlist pool...which makes sense, since those on the top probably opt for their in-state school and $80,000+ less debt

 

[etf]

Seems like the more expensive a private med school gets, the more kids they end up taking from the waitlist pool...which makes sense, since those on the top probably opt for their in-state school and $80,000+ less debt

the problem is that some of these expensive private schools accept people that they should know will be going to cheaper places. i mean, usc is targeting people with like 3.9s and 39s - these people are most likely going to ucla or another uc, or stanford if they feel the need to go private.

 

[alwaysaangel]

good example, but it is hard to tell what those numbers really mean.

they have 100 spots.

they had to accept 280 to get a class of 100.

but we cannot tell from that whether they accepted 105, and as soon as 20 said "no," they took 15 off the waitlist to get back to 100. or 50 said no and they took 45 off the waitlist. but initial "overaccept" was only 5.

in other words, the 280 are not INITIAL ACCEPTS, but the FINAL number of accepts, including those who were accepted off the waitlist.

true?

Yeah and UCI has a lot of alternate list movement so I would guess their initial accepts aren't that high. A good number of my classmates (myself included) came off the alternate list.

Plus you have to take into account that 9/104 students are PRIME and 8/104 are MD/PhD. Leaving fewer slots for "normal" applicants.

 

[bellacnella]

Keep in mind, most med schools do not do post-interview rejections so everyone else gets waitlisted. If a school interviews 800 people, accepts 350, and puts the other 550 on the waitlist, you'll potentially be competing with 550 people over a few spots. The size of most med schools is only 150 so they can't possibly be taking that many people off the waitlist.

I have never heard this before. Can anyone else substantiate this? I always thought post-interview rejections were pretty common. Are they done more at certain schools?

 

[alwaysaangel]

I have never heard this before. Can anyone else substantiate this? I always thought post-interview rejections were pretty common. Are they done more at certain schools?

Yeah it depends on the school.

I don't know if I would agree that "most schools don't reject post-interview" but certainly a lot don't. They will either accept or waitlist you (unless you told your interviewer you torture kittens or something).

Its fairly common, but then so are post-interview rejections. It all depends on the school.

 

[45408]

It depends how well they estimate yield. As I said, UM took 0 ppl off the wl last year, while other schools took everyone on the wl.

They almost certainly accept more than their class size. Students who can get into one competitive school can get into two or even ten. My school accepts over a 100 more students than the class can take, which is why the waitlist might not see much action.

 

[45408]

I have never heard this before. Can anyone else substantiate this? I always thought post-interview rejections were pretty common. Are they done more at certain schools?

Until MCW fills up its class, everyone is either accepted or rejected. After that, you're either waitlisted or rejected. If you're interviewing in October, you won't get on the waitlist.

 

[bellacnella]

No, no MCW for me. I am strictly a east coast gal (wont stray too far). I've had one to UPitt a couple weeks ago, and have two in the first week of Nov. to GWU and Temple. I would be happy to be accepted to anyone of these fine institutions. Do you think a November date is cutting it late? I am worried about post-interview rejections...they sting more. So anyway, I was wondering about these particular schools if anyone has any info they'd like to share

 

[87138]

Until MCW fills up its class, everyone is either accepted or rejected. After that, you're either waitlisted or rejected. If you're interviewing in October, you won't get on the waitlist.

In that instance, it almost seems like interviewing early if you're not a superstar candidate may work against you. If you're the kind of guy who has stats that would usually get in off the waitlist, but you're interviewing alongside a bunch of ridiculous candidates, and they don't want to accept you outright, you're canned. But the same person could potentially be waitlisted and get in if they interviewed later in the season?

 

[drizzt3117]

That doesnt seem true to me, I think MCW interviews ppl they think are a good fit early and marginal and REALLY high stat ppl later. My brother applied as a WI res w 3.85/35 and got a MCW interview in Apr after he had 12 acceptances.

 

[dcgirl2007]

In that instance, it almost seems like interviewing early if you're not a superstar candidate may work against you. If you're the kind of guy who has stats that would usually get in off the waitlist, but you're interviewing alongside a bunch of ridiculous candidates, and they don't want to accept you outright, you're canned. But the same person could potentially be waitlisted and get in if they interviewed later in the season?

"stats that usually get in off the waitlist" what are those kind of stats?

 

[drizzt3117]

In that instance, it almost seems like interviewing early if you're not a superstar candidate may work against you. If you're the kind of guy who has stats that would usually get in off the waitlist, but you're interviewing alongside a bunch of ridiculous candidates, and they don't want to accept you outright, you're canned. But the same person could potentially be waitlisted and get in if they interviewed later in the season?

Basically they won't interview those type of candidates early. They're going to target the people that are most likely to go to their school first, and once they fill their class they'll move on to candidates for the waitlist. From my experience, this includes really top tier candidates as well as the ones you mention that might be waitlisted. According to their admissions, complete date is also a factor in when they offer interviews too.

 

[mvenus929]

UCI Med school accepts 280 something for approximately 100 spots. I think that is overaccepting.

That's not overaccepting if their first batch of acceptances was only 100 people. Every medical school accepts more people than they matriculate, because many people get into more than one school or turn down the offers for other reasons. That doesn't mean the school is overaccepting.

I always thought post-interview rejections were pretty common. Are they done more at certain schools?

I think it depends heavily on the school. For example, South Carolina will either accept you or waitlist you after your interview. If your score is better than the average score last year, they accept you. Otherwise, you get waitlisted and your application is re-examined after interview season. I assume that they keep their waitlist open until school starts, ranked by the total score you got.

Someone on the admissions committee at AECOM said that in their first batch of acceptances, only 1/3 accept them (I think). Since they'll still have interviews after their first acceptance round, they might not pull anyone off the waitlist until May.

 

[dazlindz]

some schools also just can't predict how many people will accept their offers. yale, for example, had around 50 accept one year, and then 80 the next i think, so they're super conservative with their acceptances but use the waitlist heavily. it's really hard to tell, even within a school.

 

[MDRus]

yale also ranks their waitlists into groups so that's helpful.

 

[beachblonde]

I think any school wants to err on the side of caution-if they take too many people in the initial batch of acceptances, it causes all sorts of problems. Schools are limited in how many students they are allowed to have in their classes, and if they mess up and give out too many acceptances, it's on them to recitfy the mistake (or pay a fine).

For most schools, I imagine that they rely on the waitlist to fill the open spots. It's easy because they force you to make a quick decision, and if you turn them down they can move down the line and have strict control over how many students they will have.

 

[MDRus]

I think any school wants to err on the side of caution-if they take too many people in the initial batch of acceptances, it causes all sorts of problems. Schools are limited in how many students they are allowed to have in their classes, and if they mess up and give out too many acceptances, it's on them to recitfy the mistake (or pay a fine).

For most schools, I imagine that they rely on the waitlist to fill the open spots. It's easy because they force you to make a quick decision, and if you turn them down they can move down the line and have strict control over how many students they will have.

that is a very reassuring answer. i like it, but how do you know this? are you using common sense or have you some basis for believing it. those of us on wait lists wanna believe!

 

[Law2Doc]

Most schools accept as many as twice the number of seats they have and rely on folks to go elsewhere. This number is tweaked year to year based on how popular the school has been the year before. The goal of most schools is to have to use the waitlist sparingly -- sort of like a team trying to sign all their first round draft picks. If they guess right, then their initial acceptances will fill most of the spots. Because of the estimation component involved, some schools may experience huge waitlist movement, while others almost none at all. So I'm not sure this tells you much info about your own chances if waitlisted.

 

[lisichka]

Most schools accept as many as twice the number of seats they have and rely on folks to go elsewhere. This number is tweaked year to year based on how popular the school has been the year before. The goal of most schools is to have to use the waitlist sparingly -- sort of like a team trying to sign all their first round draft picks. If they guess right, then their initial acceptances will fill most of the spots. Because of the estimation component involved, some schools may experience huge waitlist movement, while others almost none at all. So I'm not sure this tells you much info about your own chances if waitlisted.

so do med schools that regulary get half of their class from the waitlist, estimate wrong each and every year?! that is hard to believe🙄

i am just very hopeful, because when waitlisted, the phone lady told me that their wait list is "a good place to be" since half of their class comes from the waitlist?

actually i wrote this post to make myself feel better as if it will increase my chances... how sad/pathetic is that?

 

[beachblonde]

that is a very reassuring answer. i like it, but how do you know this? are you using common sense or have you some basis for believing it. those of us on wait lists wanna believe!

My best answer comes from Drexel:

Drexel's first year class is 255 students. That's what it has been set at by the LCME. Let's say they typically accept 400 students to fill those 255 spots. 200 of those students accept the offer, and they pull people from the waitlist to fill the remaining 55 spots.

Last year, Drexel took gave out those 400 acceptances (I don't know what the real number is, it could be 300, it could be 500, but you get the idea), but 282 students accepted the offer. Oops. So they tried to backpedal and give the students money for deferring a year, but only one accepted. Drexel now has an M1 class of 281 students. This is problematic because the lecture halls are full, and the LCME is 😡 at them.

So, how do schools avoid this in the future? Well, it's probably a good guess that this year Drexel is going to hand out 250 initial acceptances, and then go to waitlist. Last year they had no waitlist movement, and this year they probably will.

Now, I don't know the last part for sure, but I have a good idea that they're going to try to cover their rears. Sucks being popular!

 

[MDRus]

so do med schools that regulary get half of their class from the waitlist, estimate wrong each and every year?! that is hard to believe🙄

i am just very hopeful, because when waitlisted, the phone lady told me that their wait list is "a good place to be" since half of their class comes from the waitlist?

actually i wrote this post to make myself feel better as if it will increase my chances... how sad/pathetic is that?

that's why all of us write ALL our posts!! and yes we are sad/pathetic

 

[lisichka]

and BTW what is a synonym to the "phone lady"?

"phone lady" sounds strange.

 

[45408]

That doesnt seem true to me, I think MCW interviews ppl they think are a good fit early and marginal and REALLY high stat ppl later. My brother applied as a WI res w 3.85/35 and got a MCW interview in Apr after he had 12 acceptances.

Oh, it's true. Your brother's application was most likely late, or else they put him behind everyone else for some reason, because my 3.8/35 (WI resident) got me an interview in the very first interview week, but I was complete the second week of July.

In that instance, it almost seems like interviewing early if you're not a superstar candidate may work against you. If you're the kind of guy who has stats that would usually get in off the waitlist, but you're interviewing alongside a bunch of ridiculous candidates, and they don't want to accept you outright, you're canned. But the same person could potentially be waitlisted and get in if they interviewed later in the season?

You just wouldn't get an early interview offer if you were a more marginal candidate who was ready very early on. If you're a marginal candidate though, you'd rather be complete early than late.

 

[drizzt3117]

Oh, it's true. Your brother's application was most likely late, or else they put him behind everyone else for some reason, because my 3.8/35 (WI resident) got me an interview in the very first interview week, but I was complete the second week of July.

He was complete July 31st at MCW. I don't think that's too late... My guess is that they felt as a WI resident that attended Stanford, the chances he would come back to WI weren't that good, who knows. He had an Oct 15 acceptance at UW so apparently they didn't feel the same way.

You just wouldn't get an early interview offer if you were a more marginal candidate who was ready very early on. If you're a marginal candidate though, you'd rather be complete early than late.

This seems consistent with what I've heard...

 

[MDRus]

Most schools accept as many as twice the number of seats they have and rely on folks to go elsewhere. This number is tweaked year to year based on how popular the school has been the year before. The goal of most schools is to have to use the waitlist sparingly -- sort of like a team trying to sign all their first round draft picks. If they guess right, then their initial acceptances will fill most of the spots. Because of the estimation component involved, some schools may experience huge waitlist movement, while others almost none at all. So I'm not sure this tells you much info about your own chances if waitlisted.

i usually like your posts but this one seems a bit speculative. "most schools accept twice the number of seats" just isn't true.

first, there is no such thing as "most schools." all schools have different expected yields and have to accept accordingly. the whole point of this thread is to question whether med schools, as opposed to undergrads, have to be more cautious in their initial acceptances. (unlike undergrads they can't absorb extra students easily because of cadavers and lab space.) most of the posters know or seem to think, that they do have to be more careful about overaccepting WHICH IS WHY WAITLLSTS CAN SOMETIMES BE VERY ACTIVE and be used to fill 40-50% of the spots, even at competitive schools.

if you are basing your speculation on the stats from last years of #acceptances and #matriculants, then you are incorrect. those numbers do not tell you how many of the ACCEPTANCES started out on the waitlist. so, at the end of the day Yale may take twice as many as they get, but in their initial acceptances, they may have taken only 110% of their seats.

get it?

 

[drizzt3117]

i usually like your posts but this one seems a bit speculative. "most schools accept twice the number of seats" just isn't true.

first, there is no such thing as "most schools." all schools have different expected yields and have to accept accordingly. the whole point of this thread is to question whether med schools, as opposed to undergrads, have to be more cautious in their initial acceptances. (unlike undergrads they can't absorb extra students easily because of cadavers and lab space.) most of the posters know or seem to think, that they do have to be more careful about overaccepting WHICH IS WHY WAITLLSTS CAN SOMETIMES BE VERY ACTIVE and be used to fill 40-50% of the spots, even at competitive schools.

if you are basing your speculation on the stats from last years of #acceptances and #matriculants, then you are incorrect. those numbers do not tell you how many of the ACCEPTANCES started out on the waitlist. so, at the end of the day Yale may take twice as many as they get, but in their initial acceptances, they may have taken only 110% of their seats.

get it?

I think there are difference interpretations of the word "overaccept" going on here. All schools certainly accept more people than the number of matriculants. That fact is impossible to refute. That said, who knows if they offer more outright acceptances right away than the number of seats. Schools probably have different ways of doing this. The issue with not doing so is the risk of candidates no longer being interested because they had accepted offers from other schools that they want to go to more by the time you offer them, but the thing is, even if you had offered them earlier, they might switch to go to those schools anyways. My guess is that the differnece in yield from offering people early vs late isn't going to be all that big, but that's just speculation and I have no idea if it's true. Certainly you run the risk of having too many people for your entering class if you accept based on expected yield.

 

[45408]

He was complete July 31st at MCW. I don't think that's too late... My guess is that they felt as a WI resident that attended Stanford, the chances he would come back to WI weren't that good, who knows. He had an Oct 15 acceptance at UW so apparently they didn't feel the same way.

That theory has been suggested on SDN a great many times, but it's never been substantiated by anyone in a position to actually validate that. For what it's worth, there's a guy in our class from Racine who went to Stanford, and he was accepted (obviously).

 

[limpkitty]

That theory has been suggested on SDN a great many times, but it's never been substantiated by anyone in a position to actually validate that. For what it's worth, there's a guy in our class from Racine who went to Stanford, and he was accepted (obviously).

my 3.85/41 hasn't gotten me jack from mcw and I was complete mid-july

 

[whateva07]

are waitlists done on a rolling basis for some schools? for example if someone interviews earlier in the season are they higher up on the waitlist than someone who interviews later in the season?

 

[87138]

i usually like your posts but this one seems a bit speculative. "most schools accept twice the number of seats" just isn't true.

According to the data I've seen in the U.S. News book, it seems to be pretty true.

This, of course, includes people who get outright acceptances after their interview as well as waitlisters who get in eventually.