Do medical schools verify volunteer hours?

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missdoctor

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I realize this is a shady question... but other than what is listed on your application/resume/LOR from hospitals etc., do med schools verify the number of hours/where you volunteered? I know if you plan on lying it will come out during an interview if you get one... but just curious does any one know if they check?

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No, it's not screened. However, if they suspect that you're lying, they might check it out.
 
The chances of them checking are slim (especially since you don't have to report a phone number), but I see it like taxes. You probably won't get audited, but is it worth the risk of getting caught lying?
 
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some schools req a polygraph test before admission. it's P/F, but the curve is pretty steep. don't do it.

to honor pete townshend...

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DfQ5N1TyTw[/YOUTUBE]
 
I realize this is a shady question... but other than what is listed on your application/resume/LOR from hospitals etc., do med schools verify the number of hours/where you volunteered? I know if you plan on lying it will come out during an interview if you get one... but just curious does any one know if they check?

I never heard of anyone checking (thank god :smuggrin:)
 
I never heard of anyone checking (thank god :smuggrin:)

I think in many cases it would be difficult to really verify this. While some organizations keep good records of their volunteers, many don't bother. Unless you were volunteering at a hospital or clinic, it likely wasn't properly documented. I even interned at a psych facility and my boss basically said, "When you're done interning, just tell me how many hours you worked and I'll sign off on it," with an obvious lack of care whether or not the numbers I gave him were accurate (they were). :laugh:
 
I think in many cases it would be difficult to really verify this. While some organizations keep good records of their volunteers, many don't bother. Unless you were volunteering at a hospital or clinic, it likely wasn't properly documented. I even interned at a psych facility and my boss basically said, "When you're done interning, just tell me how many hours you worked and I'll sign off on it," with an obvious lack of care whether or not the numbers I gave him were accurate (they were). :laugh:

Haha, I wish everyone was like that (ehh, I guess I dont care :laugh:). But at the ER I work at, we sign in/out everyday at a computer that keeps track of our volunteering to the second lol. But I guess it doesn't matter in the end.
 
Pretty much an honor code. Scary isn't it? However, for most of the people that claim to have a significant amount of time, they should be able to speak intelligently about certain aspects of it enough that an adcom would believe them. Even still, I imagine it wouldn't be too hard to BS it. So yeah, kinda scary.
 
Never heard of anyone checking, but at one of my interviews the doc quizzed me on the hours/week I wrote for all of my AMCAS activities. It kind of threw me, I wasn't expecting to talk about that. Luckily I hadn't lied and I had reviewed my AMCAS just before walking in!
 
They screen where they see something suspicious. I've had a friend who had one of his ECs questioned by a school (he provided proof, and everything turned out fine and he was accepted). They weren't accusatory, but I'm sure they flagged it for some reason (although they told him it was a random screening of applicants).

That being said, if you're fudging some hours, fine. But if you're blatantly lying, I'd think twice. Sure you'd probably get away with it, but if they investigate, and you get caught, you can probably say goodbye to your hopes of getting into medical school, period.
 
Never heard of anyone checking, but at one of my interviews the doc quizzed me on the hours/week I wrote for all of my AMCAS activities. It kind of threw me, I wasn't expecting to talk about that. Luckily I hadn't lied and I had reviewed my AMCAS just before walking in!

I also had one of my interviewers quiz me on the hr/wk in one of my volunteering activities (even though she had my amcas app right in front of her). Luckily, my memory is good (even under pressured) and I gave the correct hours. Review everything on your AMCAS before your interview guys.
 
Keep your own records like I do. I always record myself on the first day of each volunteering or clinical shadowing that I do. I feel that unless I have my own proof, that I would fear that the adcom thinks I'm fudging my numbers. I would hate to have my integrity questioned, but I would love to see someone try. ;) This question though about lack of verifiability drives me crazy and I wish that no one could possibly exagerrate or lie.
 
The chances of them checking are slim (especially since you don't have to report a phone number), but I see it like taxes. You probably won't get audited, but is it worth the risk of getting caught lying?

that's exactly how i explained it to one of my friends last year. (she was asking why i couldn't just put a ton of fake stuff down and call it a day.)
 
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Pretty much an honor code. Scary isn't it? However, for most of the people that claim to have a significant amount of time, they should be able to speak intelligently about certain aspects of it enough that an adcom would believe them. Even still, I imagine it wouldn't be too hard to BS it. So yeah, kinda scary.

Not just scary, it is pretty disgusting that people lie about this stuff, but I honestly believe they are only hurting themselves.

Med schools are not likely to check, but plenty of pre med committees require documentation, letters, etc.
 
Honesty is the best policy.
 
On AMCAS, I fully intend to report time sacrificed for volunteering (isn't that the spirit of the hour listing?). In other words, I'm including the half-hour drive each way. I also forget to sign-in sometimes, so the volunteer offices won't have the exact accurate number of hours I've volunteered.
 
Really, though, he probably learned as many clinically-relevant things during his commute as he did during his shift. I'd be a lot harder on people faking volunteer credentials if it wasn't such a BS requirement.
 
Really, though, he probably learned as many clinically-relevant things during his commute as he did during his shift. I'd be a lot harder on people faking volunteer credentials if it wasn't such a BS requirement.


It all depends on the quality of your volunteer experience. I agree it probably shouldn't be a "requirement," but good clinical volunteering experience can be of benefit. Of course changing hospital beds for pts all day probably isn't going to do a whole lot for your medical aspirations (beyond simply having "done your time").
 
That's true, but I'd wager that most people who volunteer have the bed-changing experience, not the "get in here and help" experience. If clinical experience was really what schools wanted you to have, they'd make you get a clinical job, and I would support that move 100%. The notion that volunteering shows you're committed to sacrificing your time to help people is beyond ridiculous. You're applying to med school. That guarantees you're giving up the bulk of your best years just to be able to help people. What more commitment is necessary? Oh well, I'm off my soapbox. The admissions process is FUBAR, and it pisses me off to no end.
 
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I can't see why one would want to lie about volunteering if they didn't or hardly did. how lazy. volunteering is suppose to help you decide whether or not being a doctor is the path for you. like most people have said, it really could only hurt you.
 
That's true, but I'd wager that most people who volunteer have the bed-changing experience, not the "get in here and help" experience. If clinical experience was really what schools wanted you to have, they'd make you get a clinical job, and I would support that move 100%. The notion that volunteering shows you're committed to sacrificing your time to help people is beyond ridiculous. You're applying to med school. That guarantees you're giving up the bulk of your best years just to be able to help people. What more commitment is necessary? Oh well, I'm off my soapbox. The admissions process is FUBAR, and it pisses me off to no end.

I guess I've always had trouble understanding how people can't find those positions (the good ones) or why they settle for the bed-changing experience as I've had multiple of the good type of position and simply never accepted the bed-changing positions. A little ambition can go a long ways. One free clinic I work at even stated they "don't know why [they] don't get more pre-meds [there] volunteering." (In other words, they'd totally be open to it.) This is a place where EMT-Bs have gotten to help with minor surgical operations (w/ close supervision), run (very) minor & simple labs (e.g., strep, glucose, etc.), perform intake assessments and initial assessments, do charting, act as pharm techs PRN, etc. It makes me suspect many premeds either don't know where to look or aren't willing to take the time and/or put in the effort to find the best experiences they can.
 
Really, though, he probably learned as many clinically-relevant things during his commute as he did during his shift. I'd be a lot harder on people faking volunteer credentials if it wasn't such a BS requirement.

And you would be correct, especially if a medically-related story comes on NPR on the way... ER volunteering = stupid.

However, my new volunteering assignment is totally different and much better. :thumbup: Hospice.

It makes me suspect many premeds either don't know where to look or aren't willing to take the time and/or put in the effort to find the best experiences they can.

Honestly, I think this is rather ignorant. Maybe that's possible where you've been, but not here. The student-run free clinic here doesn't allow undergrads to even TALK to patients until after like 6 months of volunteering filing papers.
 
Well, in one volunteer gig I had, I was lucky to interact with a doctor beyond seeing one walking through the halls. In the other, I was changing beds, and despite talking to several of the doctors about heading to med school (this was after I'd been accepted), they refused to let me do anything other than the typical volunteer junk. All of my friends who applied had pretty much identical experiences. You were unusual if you got to do something useful during your volunteer hours.

I maintain that having a job is the way to go. They train you, and you have to meet expectations. You're on the spot and working with the medical team constantly. Anything you do as a volunteer is a bonus, so they really couldn't care less if you decide you want to sit around all day. If you're an employee, you're not only allowed to learn, you're required to.
 
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And you would be correct, especially if a medically-related story comes on NPR on the way... ER volunteering = stupid.

However, my new volunteering assignment is totally different and much better. :thumbup: Hospice.



Honestly, I think this is rather ignorant. Maybe that's possible where you've been, but not here. The student-run free clinic here doesn't allow undergrads to even TALK to patients until after like 6 months of volunteering filing papers.

That's in multiple states, not one place (my experience). In smaller towns, there are less opportunities. I realize that. However, people living in larger communities (say pop. 500,000+) that cannot find a free clinic or psych ward or residential facility or hospital willing to offer a good clinical experience for someone with at least one low-level medical cert (EMT-B, CNA, maybe even First Responder) may simply not be looking in the right places. I didn't say it was necessarily the pre-med's fault. In some cases it may be laziness or whatnot but often it could be lack of good information on available resources. Of course, it's also possible no such services exist, but, for instance, my town isn't that big and has pretty poor health coverage for the mentally ill and the indigent. Yet, we have at least 5 free clinics I could name off as well as multiple hospices, residential facilities, acute psych units, etc., that would all be more than happy to take a premed along for the ride.
 
Well, in one volunteer gig I had, I was lucky to interact with a doctor beyond seeing one walking through the halls. In the other, I was changing beds, and despite talking to several of the doctors about heading to med school (this was after I'd been accepted), they refused to let me do anything other than the typical volunteer junk. All of my friends who applied had pretty much identical experiences. You were unusual if you got to do something useful during your volunteer hours.

I maintain that having a job is the way to go. They train you, and you have to meet expectations. You're on the spot and working with the medical team constantly. Anything you do as a volunteer is a bonus, so they really couldn't care less if you decide you want to sit around all day. If you're an employee, you're not only allowed to learn, you're required to.

This is very true. It may also be part of the reason I have gotten so many good volunteer opportunities. (I've held some clinically-relevant jobs, so when they casually ask, "What have you done?" and I answer with, "I worked at... in... and interned at..." that probably opens up doors.)
I'd def agree the job is the way to go.
 
The admission process should be more like in the Caribbean. Let in a lot, fail out a lot :)
 
I maintain that having a job is the way to go. They train you, and you have to meet expectations. You're on the spot and working with the medical team constantly. Anything you do as a volunteer is a bonus, so they really couldn't care less if you decide you want to sit around all day. If you're an employee, you're not only allowed to learn, you're required to.


Getting a job is the way to go for clinical experience, but you cannot count it as volunteering. Which isn't a huge deal to me, but I've heard stories of some schools wanting students with specific volunteering credentials.

That being said, it is almost impossible to get a job at a hospital. Most hospitals that I have encountered only hire within. A nurse at the hospital I volunteer at recommended I work in valet for six months and then pick up a better position... Thanks, but no thanks. I got my EMT-B for nothing and it sucks. None of the ambulance companies are hiring and when there is a position at the hospital there's always someone who was laid off who was more experience taking it. Maybe my woes are due to my area of residence. It's impossible to get any type of job in Michigan, but for some reason the hospitals I have applied at don't like the idea of hiring a college student. They do hire nursing students though as techs which I understand, but at the same time I'm a pre-med student, yet that doesn't seem to get me very far.
 
Getting a job is the way to go for clinical experience, but you cannot count it as volunteering. Which isn't a huge deal to me, but I've heard stories of some schools wanting students with specific volunteering credentials.

That being said, it is almost impossible to get a job at a hospital. Most hospitals that I have encountered only hire within. A nurse at the hospital I volunteer at recommended I work in valet for six months and then pick up a better position... Thanks, but no thanks. I got my EMT-B for nothing and it sucks. None of the ambulance companies are hiring and when there is a position at the hospital there's always someone who was laid off who was more experience taking it. Maybe my woes are due to my area of residence. It's impossible to get any type of job in Michigan, but for some reason the hospitals I have applied at don't like the idea of hiring a college student. They do hire nursing students though as techs which I understand, but at the same time I'm a pre-med student, yet that doesn't seem to get me very far.

Have you tried applying outside the ER? The problem is that everyone and their mother has their EMT-B and just about every EMT-B that can't (or doesn't want to) get an ambulance job applies for an ER Tech job. That means that often hospitals have already interviewed (sometimes even hired) their choice candidate by the time HR posts a vacancy notice for the position! If you're waiting for those notices for ER Tech jobs, you'll likely never get one. It sucks but it's how it works. Instead, try applying for other jobs and/or get an endorsement for your EMT-B (e.g., EKG, IV, etc. -- depends upon your state). That can help qualify you for other positions in a hospital setting. Also, get some experience volunteering w/ your EMT-B at a free clinic where they're willing to delegate decent clinical responsibilities to you. That experience will make you more desirable to hospitals as well as possibly put you in contact w/ physicians and RNs/NPs w/ the clout to get you a job at the local hospital....
 
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I was changing beds, and despite talking to several of the doctors about heading to med school (this was after I'd been accepted), they refused to let me do anything other than the typical volunteer junk.

Wow - you got to change beds? That is almost patient contact!

I got to run the cash register in the gift shop and occasionally stock the supply closet. But you can bet I'll milk that for all its worth on my app.
 
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Getting a job is the way to go for clinical experience, but you cannot count it as volunteering. Which isn't a huge deal to me, but I've heard stories of some schools wanting students with specific volunteering credentials.
Isn't that what I said? Whoops, that was in the other volunteering thread. Never mind.

I got to run the cash register in the gift shop and occasionally stock the supply closet. But you can bet I'll milk that for all its worth on my app.
"My experiences at the gift shop taught me how something as simple as a mug with a hospital's logo on it can make terminal cancer patient's day infinitely better. I realized the difference I was making in these wonderful people's lives. At that moment, I knew I wanted to become a doctor."
 
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"My experiences at the gift shop taught me how something as simple as a mug with a hospital's logo on it can make terminal cancer patient's day infinitely better. I realized the difference I was making in these wonderful people's lives. At that moment, I knew I wanted to become a doctor."


Lol. Specialize in Giftshopology.
 
I guess I've always had trouble understanding how people can't find those positions (the good ones) or why they settle for the bed-changing experience as I've had multiple of the good type of position and simply never accepted the bed-changing positions. A little ambition can go a long ways. One free clinic I work at even stated they "don't know why [they] don't get more pre-meds [there] volunteering." (In other words, they'd totally be open to it.) This is a place where EMT-Bs have gotten to help with minor surgical operations (w/ close supervision), run (very) minor & simple labs (e.g., strep, glucose, etc.), perform intake assessments and initial assessments, do charting, act as pharm techs PRN, etc. It makes me suspect many premeds either don't know where to look or aren't willing to take the time and/or put in the effort to find the best experiences they can.

Well, I think you know very well that your experience is unusual for a premed. Some cities, 500k+ or not, simply don't have the locations for premeds to take on that level of involvement. Perhaps there is some hospital somewhere where you can but one could hardly expect premeds to know where to look (or have the time to look for that matter). Be grateful for what you've found but understand that every hospital is different.


I'd also like to point out that clinical experience does not have to be clinical volunteering. Many applicants get their volunteer experience completely separate from their clinical experience. I do a mixture of both but I do very very little clinical volunteering because in the local hospitals we don't do much so it feels like a waste of my life.
 
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Isn't that what I said? Whoops, that was in the other volunteering thread. Never mind.

"My experiences at the gift shop taught me how something as simple as a mug with a hospital's logo on it can make terminal cancer patient's day infinitely better. I realized the difference I was making in these wonderful people's lives. At that moment, I knew I wanted to become a doctor."

Haha, I laughed a little. Isn't it really pathetic that we HAVE to BS everything this way to get an edge?
 
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i was once told by an interviewer that he/she liked the diverse volunteering experiences i had. I volunteered in three different settings over the course of 3 years (4 if you count 2 weeks aboard) and didn't volunteer a ridicuoulsy amount of hours at any particulary location. Like someone pointed out above, it's not about how many hours you've done, it's about the quality and your experiences. If you wrote down 1000 hours at a certain location, it wouldn't carry you any furthur than 150 hours at the same location in my opinion. My interviewer told me he/she didn't understand people that would volunteer 1000 hours at one location when you can volunteer 250 at four locations and get a diverse range of experiences...so if hours don't mean that much at all, why lie and put yourself in the position to get caught?
 
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Well, I think you know very well that your experience is unusual for a premed. Some cities, 500k+ or not, simply don't have the locations for premeds to take on that level of involvement. Perhaps there is some hospital somewhere where you can but one could hardly expect premeds to know where to look (or have the time to look for that matter). Be grateful for what you've found but understand that every hospital is different.


I'd also like to point out that clinical experience does not have to be clinical volunteering. Many applicants get their volunteer experience completely separate from their clinical experience. I do a mixture of both but I do very very little clinical volunteering because in the local hospitals we don't do much so it feels like a waste of my life.

Honestly, I'd have to say that sounds like a bit of a cop-out. No, great experiences aren't easy to get, but to blame that on where you live rings false to me unless you live in a small community. Obviously, the majority of the country lives in medium to large urban centers (~60% in 200k+ communities as of 2000 w/ a consistently increasing trend over the past century) and most major universities are not far from a large metropolitan area.

That having been said, I've noticed an interesting phenomenon when it comes to people having great opportunities just sort of "fall from the sky." Namely, it seems that some people seem to get great opportunities more often than others (within a given geographic location, school, classroom, etc.). I suspect that just as some are "accident prone" others are "opportunity prone" (i.e., they tend to "get lucky"). Now, maybe I'm just a bit deterministic or something, but it seems to me that the chance of some people getting a lot of opportunities and others none (or very few) is more likely systematic than random. I would encourage premeds to look for good experiences and not just accept the first that comes their way. Being as residential services are not particularly well-funded in any state (even CA struggles w/ paying for life-long care), finding a residential program (psych, geriatric, disabled adults, etc.) that would be willing to accept a volunteer should not be difficult.

Furthermore, a quick Google search reveals that many states have some sort of medical administration program for residential staff to get trained (typically in just a few days) to administer meds (via a limited number of routes) under the supervision of licensed medical personnel (i.e., with specific, written physician's orders and proper documentation checked by medical personnel). Becoming trained as a medical administration staff member and working at a residential facility for a population you're interested in (peds, geri, adults, psych) would be a great way to gain valuable clinical experience and with the industry average turnover rate being 8 months, you're pretty unlikely not to find a job opening!

The key, I think, is to look where others haven't. I recall someone mentioning not being able to find positions in Michigan, so here are some listings I just found (I didn't look beyond basic descriptions so some may be better than others):

House Parent, www.baptistchildrenshome.org
Wraparound Coordinator
Program Manager
Case Management

You might also try school or camp "nurse" positions (often they only require an EMT-B or CNA). You have to be creative sometimes.
 
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